vooks:
This thinking is the ruse used to keep charlatans in business and givers perpetually waiting.

1. Broke Christians are those speaking 'in agreement' as they await manifestation of their speaking.
2. Rich Christians are those who have spoken 'in agreement' and are already manifesting their speak

So you can never be wrong with this nonsense whether you have or not. Of course you don't want to stop offering BEFORE you start manifesting,and after manifesting you don't want to stop lest you 'lose' your miracle not to mention to manifest even more

This would have made sense if a man who used to sleep under bridges in Lagos didn't recently sign a multi-billion dollar deal with the Oman government few years after putting the word of God to work and discovering his inheritance in Christ.

A true fiasco in Christianity (if ever there was one) will be those who compare the word of God with the experiences of unbelievers and then strike out bible truths based on such notions. "If Bill Gates is an agnostic but he is the richest man in the world then it therefore means that being Christian or not does not guarantee one wealth" some may say, but if we take it back even to bible days we can tell that many evil kings, Abimelechs and Pharaohs were all wealthy even as people like Abraham and Isaac were- and at least I am sure you would not be foolhardy enough to claim it wasn't God that prospered the latter 2 names I mentioned.

Gombs:


meeeeehn!... Thanks for this! Remember we are not here to convince Nannymcphee, but lay facts side by side. How have you been na?

Good bro. The work has been hectic off late sha but we are on top of the situation. Hows your own end?

The man who used to sleep under the bridge is an oft regurgitated urban legend. No different from the man who was locked in a freezer and froze to death yet it was switched off. Besides, those instances abound in and out of the church so it proves nothing

There is nothing like 'experiences of unbelievers' this is a solid fact. Leave individuals alone. The sons of Ishmael who are not just unbelievers but antichrists wield trillions of petrodollar. Chinaman a virtually pagan Country is rising by leaps and bounds. Two glaring inconsistencies with your theory. Christianity dangling wealth therefore had NOTHING on the world. Vooks couldn't care less because he is not promising billions of dollars to prospective disciples. Mbaemeko is terminally incoherent

God blesses whenever,wherever and whoever He wills not what you command him. Why does it pain you that God is God and you are not god? Isn't this what Provoked Satan to rebellion?

mbaemeka:


This would have made sense if a man who used to sleep under bridges in Lagos didn't recently sign a multi-billion dollar deal with the Oman government few years after putting the word of God to work and discovering his inheritance in Christ.

A true fiasco in Christianity (if ever there was one) will be those who compare the word of God with the experiences of unbelievers and then strike out bible truths based on such notions. "If Bill Gates is an agnostic but he is the richest man in the world then it therefore means that being Christian or not does not guarantee one wealth" some may say, but if we take it back even to bible days we can tell that many evil kings, Abimelechs and Pharaohs were all wealthy even as people like Abraham and Isaac were- and at least I am sure you would not be foolhardy enough to claim it wasn't God that prospered the latter 2 names I mentioned.

mbaemeka:


When Paul made his statement to the Corinthians about Christ being poor for their sakes so that they would be made rich, did he not know about the Macedonians and how "deeply" poor they were?

Notice: I ignored the nit-wittedness you tried to introduce by injecting 'giving' into my post. If you are looking for verses concerning Homologia in the NT you may ask politely and I would oblige you.

Gombs :

ma'am... a little study wont kill you. Ephesus was a town by the sea port, and at that time, they had water issues due to sanitary wahala. The MOG kept getting ill from the water, Paul simply told him to take wine instead, and stop getting ill. this episode in no way means God could not protect the MOG.

the above is chapter what? verse what?
Q1. If Jesus had drank that water in Ephesus, would he have been affected

Q2.show me where this same instruction was passed to the church or Christians in Ephesus at that time

so the MOG can get ill? With all the divine health he had from God or his faith wasn't enough

As for the rest comment, I give up

I believe that God can prosper a Christian

I believe God can give wealth to a Christian

The above lies in his sovereignty & he determines the extent, he knows what you can handle but to teach that the death of Jesus has brought us wealth & it's the Christian faith that will determine his level of wealth is wrong

Even the the Jews that were given wealth still had the poor in their midst, even the rich ones, weren't at the same level

its God that determines what you get & it is not your right because Jesus died for you

mbaemeka:


Good bro. The work has been hectic off late sha but we are on top of the situation. Hows your own end?

Fine o, working and at same time eyeing IPPC to ensure them no clash.. it's a bit tougher this year o, my zone was only given 150 slots for partners, 65 slots from my church (Zonal HQ)... delegates them done plenty o... The church is marching on, getting bigger..Make we do build something like Maracana Stadium for conferences and crusades.

mbaemeka:


This would have made sense if a man who used to sleep under bridges in Lagos didn't recently sign a multi-billion dollar deal with the Oman government few years after putting the word of God to work and discovering his inheritance in Christ.

A true fiasco in Christianity (if ever there was one) will be those who compare the word of God with the experiences of unbelievers and then strike out bible truths based on such notions. "If Bill Gates is an agnostic but he is the richest man in the world then it therefore means that being Christian or not does not guarantee one wealth" some may say, but if we take it back even to bible days we can tell that many evil kings, Abimelechs and Pharaohs were all wealthy even as people like Abraham and Isaac were- and at least I am sure you would not be foolhardy enough to claim it wasn't God that prospered the latter 2 names I mentioned.

Spot on bro! You just have a way of bringing these things out...the way couldn't. Folks sha

vooks:
The man who used to sleep under the bridge is an oft regurgitated urban legend. No different from the man who was locked in a freezer and froze to death yet it was switched off. Besides, those instances abound in and out of the church so it proves nothing

There is nothing like 'experiences of unbelievers' this is a solid fact. Leave individuals alone. The sons of Ishmael who are not just unbelievers but antichrists wield trillions of petrodollar. Chinaman a virtually pagan Country is rising by leaps and bounds. Two glaring inconsistencies with your theory. Christianity dangling wealth therefore had NOTHING on the world. Vooks couldn't care less because he is not promising billions of dollars to prospective disciples. Mbaemeko is terminally incoherent

God blesses whenever,wherever and whoever He wills not what you command him. Why does it pain you that God is God and you are not god? Isn't this what Provoked Satan to rebellion?

1 Timothy 6:5 Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself. 6:6 But godliness with contentment is great gain. 6:7 For we brought nothing into this world, and it is certain we can carry nothing out. 6:8 And having food and raiment let us be therewith content. 6:9 But they that will be rich fall into temptation and a snare, and into many foolish and hurtful lusts, which drown men in destruction and perdition. 6:10 For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows. 6:11 But thou, O man of God, flee these things; and follow after righteousness, godliness, faith, love, patience, meekness.

Paul calls it men who think godliness is gain or who measure spirituality with wealth. he calls them corrupt minds.

The reason nl debates are this long is bc the prosperity gospel has churned our men with corrupt minds. Corrupt minds meeting sanctified ones produces long debates.

[quote author=nannymcphee post=27183129]

the above is chapter what? verse what?

from apt study... try googling it na...stop making yourself look bad in bible knowledge light.

Q1. If Jesus had drank that water in Ephesus, would he have been affected

if Jesus knowing ate a poisoned food, would he have died of it?

Q2.show me where this same instruction was passed to the church or Christians in Ephesus at that time

If Paul wrote to the Pastor of Ephesus, he has written to all the brethren in Ephesus. For example, if Pastor Chris writes my pastor on what should be done about ebola, Pastor Chris has surely writteno all the brethren under the churches my Pastor is pastoring.
#CommonSense

so the MOG can get ill? With all the divine health he had from God or his faith wasn't enough

ever read about Elisha? He got sick and died, with all his annointing, and parting of river jordan etc...do you know why? Ma'am, go and study o!

As for the rest comment, I give up

wise choice

I believe that God can prosper a Christian

but wealth was not promised in the NT, right? ok ma'am

I believe God can give wealth to a Christian

but James and Paul were broke guys shey? #Classic

The above lies in his sovereignty & he determines the extent, he knows what you can handle but to teach that the death of Jesus has brought us wealth & it's the Christian faith that will determine his level of wealth is wrong

Without faith, you can receive nothing from God... My ancestors were rich (Abraham, David, etc)....why wouuld a new covenant not be better than theirs?

Even the the Jews that were given wealth still had the poor in their midst, even the rich ones, weren't at the same level

Poor Christians today are not of a result of lack of money, but lack of knowledge. Simple. That's why we preach and teach ma'am.

its God that determines what you get & it is not your right because Jesus died for you

oh, it's my right, for i am a joint heir with Christ...ALL (not some) HE has are mine, not by my deeds but by my accepting Him as Lord and Saviour, i immediately became Abraham's seed and heir according to the promise.

Those my dear are my rights...that's why the bible is my constitution.

Gombs,
If Timothy's ailments affected everyone, was it not out of place addressing him alone?
What about Trophimus?

2 Tim 4:20 (KJV)
Erastus abode at Corinth: but Trophimus have I left at Miletum sick.

This is mbaemeko the arch-hooligan from CE who wished me death by road accident and suicide
Revelation 3:17-18 (KJV)
Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked: 18 I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy unclothedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see

Contrast that with Smyrna.

Revelation 2:8-9 (KJV)
And unto the angel of the church in Smyrna write; These things saith the first and the last, which was dead, and is alive; 9 I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan

Poverty was not a stranger in the primitive church. Of course they was too dumb to understand their 'position' in Christ. It took WOF wolves to spot what had been missed

mbaemeka:


When Paul made his statement to the Corinthians about Christ being poor for their sakes so that they would be made rich, did he not know about the Macedonians and how "deeply" poor they were?

Notice: I ignored the nit-wittedness you tried to introduce by injecting 'giving' into my post. If you are looking for verses concerning Homologia in the NT you may ask politely and I would oblige you.

mbaemeka:
Regardless of if I am a taxi driver. [b]In fact, being a taxi driver will only be for a while [/b]because as one walks in the law of faith, your life experiences begin to measure up with your confessions.

herein lies the problem with this prosperity message!! What is wrong with being a TAXI DRIVER?

If all taxi driver's in the world is won over to Christ, who then will drive taxi's? Without them how can people move around

I guess you're in Nigeria that's why you said this! Do you know how much those folks make in a day? But in your thinking, they don't drive big cars & own houses etc they are not wealthy!!!

God can prosper a taxi driver in the taxi business

Paul in the bible was a tent maker!! Your Jesus was a Carpenter


this is the problem with the prosperity message teaching that all Christians must/should/ought to be rich

The key word is contentment, there are people who will never have their own house all their lifetime but will be happy & prosperous paying rent (be it face me I face you, be it bungalow or duplex)

so in ur world, a true Christian cannot remain a maid, cleaner, gateman, cook etc because Jesus will elevate them.

let's do a little Mathis

a taxi driver that earns N3000/day(they earn more than this) this amounts to N90,000/month

There are graduates that teach in schools, even engineers that earn btw 10,000-45,000

Who is more prosperous ? I guess you'll say they both need Jesus

the above category of folks can only pray to God to uplift their status/bless the work of their hands & God in his sovereignty will determine how & if he answers them

nannymcphee:


herein lies the problem with this prosperity message!! What is wrong with being a TAXI DRIVER?

If all taxi driver's in the world is won over to Christ, who then will drive taxi's? Without them how can people move around

I guess you're in Nigeria that's why you said this! Do you know how much those folks make in a day? But in your thinking, they don't drive big cars & own houses etc they are not wealthy!!!

God can prosper a taxi driver in the taxi business

Paul in the bible was a tent maker!! Your Jesus was a Carpenter


this is the problem with the prosperity message teaching that all Christians must/should/ought to be rich

The key word is contentment, there are people who will never have their own house all their lifetime but will be happy & prosperous paying rent (be it face me I face you, be it bungalow or duplex)

so in ur world, a true Christian cannot remain a maid, cleaner, gateman, cook etc because Jesus will elevate them.

let's do a little Mathis

a taxi driver that earns N3000/day(they earn more than this) this amounts to N90,000/month

There are graduates that teach in schools, even engineers that earn btw 10,000-45,000

Who is more prosperous ? I guess you'll say they both need Jesus

the above category of folks can only pray to God to uplift their status/bless the work of their hands & God in his sovereignty will determine how & if he answers them

NannyMcphee, this illustration with which you have used to illustrate the duplicity and inconsistency of this "get rich of die trying in 'Christ' " philosophy is excellent.

Let him who has an ear hear the truth. Unfortunately, the same pride that sponsored the initial professions might not allow these brethren examine themselves whether they are yet in the faith and retrace their steps. God help us all. What more needs to be said?

[quote author=nannymcphee post=27184298]

herein lies the problem with this prosperity message!! What is wrong with being a TAXI DRIVER?

If all taxi driver's in the world is won over to Christ, who then will drive taxi's? Without them how can people move around

I guess you're in Nigeria that's why you said[quote]

You have brought it out beautifully.
Well done!
"21 Were you a slave when called? Do not be concerned about it. (But if you can gain your freedom, avail yourself of the opportunity.)
22 For he who was called in the Lord as a slave is a freedman of the Lord. Likewise he who was free when called is a slave of Christ."
- 1 Corinthians 7:21-22

nannymcphee:


herein lies the problem with this prosperity message!! What is wrong with being a TAXI DRIVER?

If all taxi driver's in the world is won over to Christ, who then will drive taxi's? Without them how can people move around

I guess you're in Nigeria that's why you said this! Do you know how much those folks make in a day? But in your thinking, they don't drive big cars & own houses etc they are not wealthy!!!

God can prosper a taxi driver in the taxi business

Paul in the bible was a tent maker!! Your Jesus was a Carpenter


this is the problem with the prosperity message teaching that all Christians must/should/ought to be rich

The key word is contentment, there are people who will never have their own house all their lifetime but will be happy & prosperous paying rent (be it face me I face you, be it bungalow or duplex)

so in ur world, a true Christian cannot remain a maid, cleaner, gateman, cook etc because Jesus will elevate them.

let's do a little Mathis

a taxi driver that earns N3000/day(they earn more than this) this amounts to N90,000/month

There are graduates that teach in schools, even engineers that earn btw 10,000-45,000

Who is more prosperous ? I guess you'll say they both need Jesus

the above category of folks can only pray to God to uplift their status/bless the work of their hands & God in his sovereignty will determine how & if he answers them

This is the big problem all whant this white collar jobs but not every body can have this and this preaching is also very dangerous for the society.
I just watch a TV documentation about radical christianity in america who have a connetion with the ku clux clan who teach their kids at home because they will learn about the evoluten and this is not in the bible.
The girls didnot need a job it is better when they learn how to drink tea because they could get an invitation to the queen of england and the girls didnot need to lean a job, and I hope this will not take over to nigeria.
Why a girl should not get an education this is not better than the taliban who also say that girls need no education.

vooks:
Gombs,
If Timothy's ailments affected everyone, was it not out of place addressing him alone?
What about Trophimus?

2 Tim 4:20 (KJV)
Erastus abode at Corinth: but Trophimus have I left at Miletum sick.

Good question bro! Miletum is not in Ephesus, remember, I said it was a coastal town that had water issues. Now, two perspective

1. This Trophimus and Tychicus, we know from the book of the Acts, sailed away with him from Judea, and were everywhere his companions, perhaps as being more zealous than the rest.

"Trophimus I have left at Miletum sick." Why then didst Paul not heal him, instead of leaving him? Seems like a logical question, right? The Apostles could not do everything, or they did not dispense miraculous gifts upon all occasions, lest more should be ascribed to them than was right. The same thing is observable of those blessed and righteous men, who were before them, as in the case of Moses, whose voice was weak. Why was not this defect removed? Nay, he was often afflicted with grief and dejection, and he was not admitted into the Land of Promise.

2. Miletus was near Ephesus. So it is pertinent to note that this was not Ephesus, but, Did this happen then when Paul sailed to Judea, or upon some other occasion? For after he had been in Rome, he returned to Spain, but whether he came thence again into these parts, we know not. We see him however deserted by all. "For Demas," he says, "hath forsaken me. Crescens is departed into Galatia, Titus to Dalmatia. Erastus abode at Corinth. Trophimus have I left at Miletum sick."

So obviously, the church in Ephesus had this water challenge, their MOG addressed it, the church marched on...simple! It was not out of place for him (Paul) addressing the Head Pastor of the Church in Ephesus

Gombs:


Fine o, working and at same time eyeing IPPC to ensure them no clash.. it's a bit tougher this year o, my zone was only given 150 slots for partners, 65 slots from my church (Zonal HQ)... delegates them done plenty o... The church is marching on, getting bigger..Make we do build something like Maracana Stadium for conferences and crusades.

I'm a delegate too & guess what, i wont go-work related reason (hope u know what it takes to be a delegate for this year & I didn't just hit the minimum, it's way above that )

The last IPPC I attended was 2007, I have always made delegate since then

so when I write here, I know what I'm writing so don't think I'm someone who isn't a giver !!!

nannymcphee:


herein lies the problem with this prosperity message!! What is wrong with being a TAXI DRIVER?

If all taxi driver's in the world is won over to Christ, who then will drive taxi's? Without them how can people move around

I guess you're in Nigeria that's why you said this! Do you know how much those folks make in a day? But in your thinking, they don't drive big cars & own houses etc they are not wealthy!!!

God can prosper a taxi driver in the taxi business

Paul in the bible was a tent maker!! Your Jesus was a Carpenter


this is the problem with the prosperity message teaching that all Christians must/should/ought to be rich

The key word is contentment, there are people who will never have their own house all their lifetime but will be happy & prosperous paying rent (be it face me I face you, be it bungalow or duplex)

so in ur world, a true Christian cannot remain a maid, cleaner, gateman, cook etc because Jesus will elevate them.

let's do a little Mathis

a taxi driver that earns N3000/day(they earn more than this) this amounts to N90,000/month

There are graduates that teach in schools, even engineers that earn btw 10,000-45,000

Who is more prosperous ? I guess you'll say they both need Jesus

the above category of folks can only pray to God to uplift their status/bless the work of their hands & God in his sovereignty will determine how & if he answers them

Heheh, nice move ma'am. He never said there was something wrong in taxi driving, neither did he say they are poor folks, but out of some sheer desperation to cling to something in a thread as this, you made the above detour.

We're taught in church that any service to humanity is honorable, be it shoe shining (oya nail me for presumably calling them poor), or any menial job, for we work to earn a giving, not a living. Our prosperity is not by our jobs or family, but of the Lord. Isaac was a well digger, he prospered not from the business, Jesus was a carpenter, he prospered not from it...in fact all other disciples left their jobs and followed Jesus, yet they never lacked. Luke was a physician, Matthew an accountant, some fisher men etc
Paul a tent maker, DID NOT prosper from the business...he did it to earn a giving, go study. So save your math, and quit twisting what mba wrote. Thank you.

See you forming peity, why didn't you take up taxi driving as a career then since they make 90k a month?

[quote author=nannymcphee post=27189408]

I'm a delegate too & guess what, i wont go-work related reason (hope u know what it takes to be a delegate for this year & I didn't just hit the minimum, it's way above that )

Thanks for saving sace for someone else!

The last IPPC I attended was 2007, I have always made delegate since then

May God bless your givings to the work of Ministry ....Amen

so when I write here, I know what I'm writing so don't think I'm someone who isn't a giver !!!

The fact you sleep in a garage does not mke you a car.

Just to add, there is another prevalent practice which is akin to name it & claim it but its with a different twist

some Christians will see a car or house or a contract being discussed, the next thing you hear is I claim that car! I claim that house or job

can u imagine, someone driving his own car & another man claiming it? Isn't that robbery and to complicate matters, the "claimee" most times does not have the financial strenth to maintain or service such car

all this practice stems because of the emphasis of "a Christian must be rich"

this had resulted to unwholesome & unhealthy practices amongst brethren.

we so much love to hear "praise The Lord, I received an alert of N....... & I don't know who paid it in"

"someone I didn't know just called me and gave me a contract of N....."


"someone just gave me x amount of money"

These are the kinds of testimonies we like to celebrate, to complicate matters further, you'll now hear, "come sow a seed to connect to this testimony"


While I strongly believe that the above scenerio's are possible in the life of a Christian but they are by acts of providence as God allows & not something that can be reproduced by "connecting to or following a set of defined rules"

emphasizing on such practice is implicitly discouraging the Christian not to work!!!


while I acknowledged that it takes money to preach the gospel, I'm yet to read where it was stated in the bible or even the missionaries that brought Christianity to Nigeria, that they couldn't go far because of lack of funds

God has a way of funding it's work

nannymcphee:

God has a way of funding it's His work

Good, what ways please? How does He do it? Edify me ma'am.

My God is not an 'it', maybe yours is!

It is not why Paul couldn't heal him sir. He too was a partaker of the same faith. Paul states as a matter of fact that they was with him and he was sick and he left him sick. A disease-free utopia preached by WOF is contradicted by existence of sickness near Paul/Paul's companions. Ditto poverty. But you never know, these WOF nuggets was hidden for hundreds of years waiting for Oyaks and others to discover. New revelation

So now we have two dumb excuses for zero healing;
1. Lack of faith/ignorance
2. A precautionary measure lest the faith healer is exalted above measure even

Gombs:


Good question bro! Miletum is not in Ephesus, remember, I said it was a coastal town that had water issues. Now, two perspective

1. This Trophimus and Tychicus, we know from the book of the Acts, sailed away with him from Judea, and were everywhere his companions, perhaps as being more zealous than the rest.

"Trophimus I have left at Miletum sick." Why then didst Paul not heal him, instead of leaving him? Seems like a logical question, right? The Apostles could not do everything, or they did not dispense miraculous gifts upon all occasions, lest more should be ascribed to them than was right. The same thing is observable of those blessed and righteous men, who were before them, as in the case of Moses, whose voice was weak. Why was not this defect removed? Nay, he was often afflicted with grief and dejection, and he was not admitted into the Land of Promise.

2. Miletus was near Ephesus. So it is pertinent to note that this was not Ephesus, but, Did this happen then when Paul sailed to Judea, or upon some other occasion? For after he had been in Rome, he returned to Spain, but whether he came thence again into these parts, we know not. We see him however deserted by all. "For Demas," he says, "hath forsaken me. Crescens is departed into Galatia, Titus to Dalmatia. Erastus abode at Corinth. Trophimus have I left at Miletum sick."

So obviously, the church in Ephesus had this water challenge, their MOG addressed it, the church marched on...simple! It was not out of place for him (Paul) addressing the Head Pastor of the Church in Ephesus

vooks:
The man who used to sleep under the bridge is an oft regurgitated urban legend. No different from the man who was locked in a freezer and froze to death yet it was switched off. Besides, those instances abound in and out of the church so it proves nothing
There is nothing like 'experiences of unbelievers' this is a solid fact. Leave individuals alone. The sons of Ishmael who are not just unbelievers but antichrists wield trillions of petrodollar. Chinaman a virtually pagan Country is rising by leaps and bounds. Two glaring inconsistencies with your theory. Christianity dangling wealth therefore had NOTHING on the world. Vooks couldn't care less because he is not promising billions of dollars to prospective disciples. Mbaemeko is terminally incoherent
God blesses whenever,wherever and whoever He wills not what you command him. Why does it pain you that God is God and you are not god? Isn't this what Provoked Satan to rebellion?

There was a similar ignoramus who spoke as whimsically as you do. He cannot touch my posts now with a 100ft pole because I mopped him with the word of God as I would do to you again if you keep churning out these nonsensical statements. "There is nothing like unbelievers experience"? Try telling that to Isaac or what do you think Jesus meant when he said "Ye are in the world but not of it"? I don't even know where to begin with you on your delusions about "commanding God or trying to be like him". Have you ever seen anyone who went to the President in the name of the President? Do you see how ridiculous you sound with the idiotic notion you have that someone would command God?

As per God wills bla bla whatever way he likes et al. You only spoke like someone who reads the bible like a magazine or how else will you explain for example, how that a man who had never worked for 40 years began to walk immediately 2 disciples asked him to and in that instance not a single word was said to God to elicit the miracle?

I expect the dumb excuses or evasions to happen now in 3...2...

Wow! What a thread! I like the combination of Gombs and Mbaemeka in a thread... it's like a WWE Tag team of Legends like Hulk Hogan and Bret hitman Hart-always a marvel to see.

The icing would be having bidam and alwaystrue. Good job Gombs and mba so far!

vooks:
This is mbaemeko the arch-hooligan from CE who wished me death by road accident and suicide
Revelation 3:17-18 (KJV)
Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked: 18 I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy unclothedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see

Contrast that with Smyrna.

Revelation 2:8-9 (KJV)
And unto the angel of the church in Smyrna write; These things saith the first and the last, which was dead, and is alive; 9 I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan

Poverty was not a stranger in the primitive church. Of course they was too dumb to understand their 'position' in Christ. It took WOF wolves to spot what had been missed

May God grant you eyes of understanding to see that these verses above give credence to my standing even as they shame you sense-ruled scoffers in the house of God.

In Revelations 3, Jesus says to the church you are wretched and poor so now buy Gold from me (gold that has been tried by fire) so that you would be rich. How can poor people buy Gold except the gold he is referring to is not a physical gold? The understanding is simple for that church was physically and financially wealthy but they had put Jesus out of the door by telling him "any one can prosper, you didn't make us prosper, we don't need you to prosper after all antichrists prosper too" So Jesus in return tells them they are miserable, wretched and poor because their "prosperity" is not from or unto him. So he instructs them to come to him to get the 'true' riches as his has been passed through fire I.e will stand the test of time.

Concerning Revelations 2, he tells the church I know you are poor but in fact you are RICH or did you miss that part? So why is telling poor people that they are rich? The simple answer is that being poor or rich has nothing to do with having money but in being aware about your inheritance in Christ and that inheritance includes material prosperity. It takes faith to lay hold of that inheritance and faith involves saying the same things with God in agreement with him. So the poor church in Smyrna were actually RICH.

vooks:

It is not why Paul couldn't heal him sir. He too was a partaker of the same faith. Paul states as a matter of fact that they was with him and he was sick and he left him sick. A disease-free utopia preached by WOF is contradicted by existence of sickness near Paul/Paul's companions.

Ah! I now see where this was heading

Ditto poverty.

You've strayed away buddy! Maybe you should read where we left off, I am not interested in derailing. Ok then, list for me how many of Paul's companions that were broke or in poverty. Or, please show me where Paul taught on accepting poverty! Oya quote where he said "I learnt to be contented in whatever state I am..." let me use that scripture to blast you into oblivion.

But you never know, these WOF nuggets was hidden for hundreds of years waiting for Oyaks and others to discover. New revelation

I ain't interested in discussing WOF with you, nor want to delve into the thread you guys have...quit throwing me baits. This was how you proliferated the link on other threads in a move to get me there. I'm beginning to get irritated by it. If you want a discuss about WOF, we had a one before NL crashed...we can cache it and continue fro there.

So now we have two dumb excuses for zero healing;
1. Lack of faith/ignorance
2. A precautionary measure lest the faith healer is exalted above measure even

Take your WOF opinions off this thread o! Quit derailing
[/quote]

Gombs:


Heheh, nice move ma'am. He never said there was something wrong in taxi driving, neither did he say they are poor folks, but out of some sheer desperation to cling to something in a thread as this, you made the above detour.

We're taught in church that any service to humanity is honorable, be it shoe shining (oya nail me for presumably calling them poor), or any menial job, for we work to earn a giving, not a living. Our prosperity is not by our jobs or family, but of the Lord. Isaac was a well digger, he prospered not from the business, Jesus was a carpenter, he prospered not from it...in fact all other disciples left their jobs and followed Jesus, yet they never lacked. Luke was a physician, Matthew an accountant, some fisher men etc
Paul a tent maker, DID NOT prosper from the business...he did it to earn a giving, go study. So save your math, and quit twisting what mba wrote. Thank you.

See you forming peity, why didn't you take up taxi driving as a career then since they make 90k a month?

I don't know what this thread would have been without you bro. Thanks.

mbaemeka:


There was a similar ignoramus who spoke as whimsically as you do. He cannot touch my posts now with a 100ft pole because I mopped him with the word of God as I would do to you again if you keep churning out these nonsensical statements. "There is nothing like unbelievers experience"? Try telling that to Isaac or what do you think Jesus meant when he said "Ye are in the world but not of it"? I don't even know where to begin with you on your delusions about "commanding God or trying to be like him". Have you ever seen anyone who went to the President in the name of the President? Do you see how ridiculous you sound with the idiotic notion you have that someone would command God?

As per God wills bla bla whatever way he likes et al. You only spoke like someone who reads the bible like a magazine or how else will you explain for example, how that a man who had never worked for 40 years began to walk immediately 2 disciples asked him to and in that instance not a single word was said to God to elicit the miracle?

I expect the dumb excuses or evasions to happen now in 3...2...

This should be archived! #Class

nannymcphee:


herein lies the problem with this prosperity message!! What is wrong with being a TAXI DRIVER?

If all taxi driver's in the world is won over to Christ, who then will drive taxi's? Without them how can people move around

I guess you're in Nigeria that's why you said this! Do you know how much those folks make in a day? But in your thinking, they don't drive big cars & own houses etc they are not wealthy!!!

God can prosper a taxi driver in the taxi business

Paul in the bible was a tent maker!! Your Jesus was a Carpenter


this is the problem with the prosperity message teaching that all Christians must/should/ought to be rich

The key word is contentment, there are people who will never have their own house all their lifetime but will be happy & prosperous paying rent (be it face me I face you, be it bungalow or duplex)

so in ur world, a true Christian cannot remain a maid, cleaner, gateman, cook etc because Jesus will elevate them.

let's do a little Mathis

a taxi driver that earns N3000/day(they earn more than this) this amounts to N90,000/month

There are graduates that teach in schools, even engineers that earn btw 10,000-45,000

Who is more prosperous ? I guess you'll say they both need Jesus

the above category of folks can only pray to God to uplift their status/bless the work of their hands & God in his sovereignty will determine how & if he answers them

To add to what Gombs said I am not disparaging any profession neither am I saying all Christians must/should be rich. I said all Christians ARE rich and each can discover his inheritance in any occupation he finds himself be it a painter or a driver. My Pastor says "be a mechanic with a difference" "be a hawker with a difference!".

Speaking of drivers, one of the "richest" men in my church was a taxi driver that now owns a car rental company in Nigeria. The man started out as a taxi but he saw from the word that he was rich in Christ so he believed it and put the word to work by his meditation amongst other things. In a while he became so prosperous that his company is involved in car hire services of all forms. He is definitely a billionaire in Naira now and he attributes his success to his application of the word of God and nothing else. There are many others like him some of which are painters that have given out more than 10 cars to strangers even university lecturers that taught them. There is honor in every occupation and as long you are a child of God who believes the word, just like Joseph you too would prosper. Prosperity is our inheritance.

NB: there is nothing like a prosperity gospel (for the umpteenth time). The gospel is a total package.

mbaemeka:


I don't know what this thread would have been without you bro. Thanks.

You welcome bro...so, who's Hogan and who's Hitman Hart?

@nannymcphee,

I have two questions for you and I want you to believe me that they are not meant to spite you.

1. Are you still a member of Christ Embassy?

2. If you are, can you explain why you are still a member of that church seeing that your views are at variance with theirs?

Thanks in advance.

mbaemeka:


May God grant you eyes of understanding to see that these verses above give credence to my standing even as they shame you sense-ruled scoffers in the house of God.

In Revelations 3, Jesus says to the church you are wretched and poor so now buy Gold from me (gold that has been tried by fire) so that you would be rich. How can poor people buy Gold except the gold he is referring to is not a physical gold? The understanding is simple for that church was physically and financially wealthy but they had put Jesus out of the door by telling him "any one can prosper, you didn't make us prosper, we don't need you to prosper after all antichrists prosper too" So Jesus in return tells them they are miserable, wretched and poor because their "prosperity" is not from or unto him. So he instructs them to come to him to get the 'true' riches as his has been passed through fire I.e will stand the test of time.

Concerning Revelations 2, he tells the church I know you are poor but in fact you are RICH or did you miss that part? So why is telling poor people that they are rich? The simple answer is that being poor or rich has nothing to do with having money but in being aware about your inheritance in Christ and that inheritance includes material prosperity. It takes faith to lay hold of that inheritance and faith involves saying the same things with God in agreement with him. So the poor church in Smyrna were actually RICH.

Really!!! You think the true riches the bible was talking about is material acquisition

The verses up there has nothing to do with material prosperity

you folks keep saying the the poor Christian is in that state because of choice or lack of knowledge yet you can't show where it was stated in the NT

Paul acknowledged the poor & nowhere did he prescribe that they give so that they will have

The saints of old sold all they had & laid it at the apostles feet & no one lacked among them

No one lacked because those that had gave, who were these that lacked prior to the giving? Weren't they Christians? Do you find the apostles teaching these folks that lack was bad

What about the widows that were neglected that led to the office of deacons? Why did they need the ministration if they had? Do you find the apostles teaching them on how it's their right to have becos Christ died for them