vooks:
I did a simple Google and this site came up. It's owner is Randal Grier
http://rgm.me/what-ive-seen-in-the-spirit/who-was-kenneth-erwin-hagin/



This is not to say that Hagin called or regarded himself as an apostle but at least his close friends did and he never corrected them

Even coming from you, this is ridiculous. Who are the close friends and where did they make such reference?

So that's your new standard for determining if somebody made a claim or not?

For your information, Hagin stated repeatedly what his calling was. And it was not apostle. He even had something to say about those who claim the apostolic mandate without the call to back it.

Dyslexia perish in Jesus name!

http://rgm.me/what-ive-seen-in-the-spirit/who-was-kenneth-erwin-hagin/

nlMediator:


Even coming from you, this is ridiculous. Who are the close friends and where did they make such reference?

For your information, Hagin stated repeatedly what his calling was. And it was not apostle. He even had something to say about those who claim the apostolic mandate without the call to back it.

vooks:
I don't have an opinion on the matter, I just quoted Randall. Dyslexia perish in Jesus name!

You sure have an opinion. Your goal is to bail somebody out. Otherwise why take the trouble to run a google search and post the irrelevant search result you posted? As you can see, I modified my post to ask you another question, Mr. I don't argue from silence AND Mr. If I don't respond to people's claim against me, it doesn't mean it is true. You people and your useless double standard!

I got curious because I know from one of his books He gave Gifts to Men that Hagin was against titles. He has described how he stepped into the office of a Prophet in 1952 15 years after he started ministry and so forth. So I knew him to at least have regarded himself as a prophet but he seldom used the title.

The site I posted by Randall an obvious big fan of him came up. You may want to click the link again

You are just as vengeful as mbaemeka carrying grudges to the tenth generation. You may want to take up growing up seriously, it don't hurt growing up


Arguments from silence are notoriously unreliable. I know Hebrews has employed that argument effectively on Melchizedek but that's Spirit inspired. In normal circumstances, use them if you have NOTHING else. Why would I dignifiy your infantile rants by responding to them? I hold my peace and let you wallow in your own folly alone. There is so much truth to never-argue-with-a-fool line

nlMediator:


You sure have an opinion. Your goal is to bail somebody out. Otherwise why take the trouble to run a google search and post the irrelevant search result you posted? As you can see, I modified my post to ask you another question, Mr. I don't argue from silence AND Mr. If I don't respond to people's claim against me, it doesn't mean it is true. You people and your useless double standard!

nlMediator:

Who said anything about the Holy Spirit and devotion to Himself?

You said the Holy Spirit came to replace Jesus. I said no. You said this dispensation is the dispensation of the Spirit and I said no it isn't.

DrummaBoy had pasted an article where he made it clear that the Christian devotion was to Christ and not to the Spirit. A point he believes was drawn home by the Spirit being mentioned once on Colossians. He said that the over emphasis on the Spirit is the root of errors by groups like the Pentecostals that leads them into mysticism. Even at that he made it clear that he was not belittling the Holy Spirit only stating that Christians should lay the right emphasis.

You refuted this position by saying that the Holy Spirit has come to replace Christ and I made it clear to you that that is error because the gospel we preach is the Gospel of Jesus Christ and not of the Spirit and our devotion is to Christ and not the Spirit.

Apparently when the error of your initial position downed on you, you have now helped us with your "in that sense statement" below. But the fact remains that the root of so much errors in the church, especially Pentecostals, is mysticism that arises from an emphasis on the Spirit that scripture does not teach. If however it is in this "sense" you mean that the Spirit "replaced" Christ in us, we are on the same page then.

nlMediator:

Whatever Jesus was to the disciples while He was on earth - teacher, comforter, etc - that's what He sent the Holy Spirit to do for us. It's in that sense He's a replacement. Jesus and the Holy Spirit are One, so there's no competition. As Jesus, the Holy Spirit would testify of Jesus. He's not here to seek His own glory.

nlMediator:

If you keep your experiences closeted, you forfeit the legitimacy to attack other people's experiences and also leave open the conclusion that you have no such experiences. The call is yours to make. I certainly do not believe you have such experiences. Thus, I stand by my counsel that you should seek closeness to the Holy Spirit so He can usher you into deeper Christian life.

I am not "attacking" anyone. If that's how your simple mind sees it, then mature in thinking. I just told your "boy" the facts I am defending here.

Also, my Christian life is not experience based. I don't count them as things to recount to anyone. They are personal and yes I will keep them closeted. You could as well ask Paul why he kept his closeted too.

2 Corinthians 12:4 How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.

And as to your counsel to seek a "deeper Christian life", thank you but no thanks. Go and find out the beginning of all errors in all religion. It was always because the simplicity of Christ was not enough for them and while seeking "deeper life" they encountered demons. I don't need it. I am complete in Christ - the message of epistle to the Colossians.

WinsomeX:


You said the Holy Spirit came to replace Jesus. I said no. You said this dispensation is the dispensation of the Spirit and I said no it isn't.

DrummaBoy had pasted an article where he made it clear that the Christian devotion was to Christ and not to the Spirit. A point he believes was drawn home by the Spirit being mentioned once on Colossians. He said that the over emphasis on the Spirit is the root of errors by groups like the Pentecostals that leads them into mysticism. Even at that he made it clear that he was not belittling the Holy Spirit only stating that Christians should lay the right emphasis.

You refuted this position by saying that the Holy Spirit has come to replace Christ and I made it clear to you that that is error because the gospel we preach is the Gospel of Jesus Christ and not of the Spirit and our devotion is to Christ and not the Spirit.

Apparently when the error of your initial position downed on you, you have now helped us with your "in that sense statement" below. But the fact remains that the root of so much errors in the church, especially Pentecostals, is mysticism that arises from an emphasis on the Spirit that scripture does not teach. If however it is in this "sense" you mean that the Spirit "replaced" Christ in us, we are on the same page then.





I am not "attacking" anyone. If that's how your simple mind sees it, then mature in thinking. I just told your "boy" the facts I am defending here.

Also, my Christian life is not experience based. I don't count them as things to recount to anyone. They are personal and yes I will keep them closeted. You could as well ask Paul why he kept his closeted too.

2 Corinthians 12:4 How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.

And as to your counsel to seek a "deeper Christian life", thank you but no thanks. Go and find out the beginning of all errors in all religion. It was always because the simplicity of Christ was not enough for them and while seeking "deeper life" they encountered demons. I don't need it. I am complete in Christ - the message of epistle to the Colossians.

Bobo, you quoted out of context. Paul was speaking of another realm, a level you get in Christ, and God just have to take you away. Paul was saying that he was caught up to paradise and heard things so astounding that they cannot be expressed in words, things no human is allowed to tell. He wasn't closething anything as you infer, Paul gave his life's experiences in almost all his letters. The fact he wrote the experience of being caught up doesn’t look like closeting , does it?

Stop calling DB here, stop trying to preach truthfulness while you are far from it in deeds. Thanks

Gombs:

Bobo, you quoted out of context. Paul was speaking of another realm, a level you get in Christ, and God just have to take you away. Paul was saying that he was caught up to paradise and heard things so astounding that they cannot be expressed in words, things no human is allowed to tell. He wasn't closething anything as you infer, Paul gave his life's experiences in almost all his letters. The fact he wrote the experience of being caught up doesn’t look like closeting , does it?

And what he stated was not an experience? An experience he chose not to speak about? I think you should just allow the discussion to continue while you observe. You really don't have to talk.

Gombs:

Stop calling DB here, stop trying to preach truthfulness while you are far from it in deeds. Thanks

What are you taking about? I do not have the right to quote another monicker? You want me to tell you whether DrummaBoy is WinsomeX? I have told you before I have no comments on monickers. You and your friends may continue to seek to find the mystery behind those monickers. Hope the mystery is solved some day. I wish you all the best. If I were you, I will devote my time to something more worthwhile.

[quote author=WinsomeX post=27741911]

And what he stated was not an experience? An experience he chose not to speak about? I think you should just allow the discussion to continue while you observe. You really don't have to talk.

You know how to evade when being scrutinised.

What are you taking about? I do not have the right to quote another monicker? You want me to tell you whether DrummaBoy is WinsomeX? I have told you before I have no comments on monickers. You and your friends may continue to seek to find the mystery behind those monickers. Hope the mystery is solved some day. I wish you all the best. If I were you, I will devote my time to something more worthwhile.

Honesty bro! That's the back bone of our discussions.

I can understand vook being the new shedemidemi, but, not what you're trying to do.

Cheers

WinsomeX:


And what he stated was not an experience? An experience he chose not to speak about? I think you should just allow the discussion to continue while you observe. You really don't have to talk.

GBAM!

John 16:7 KJV

Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient and I you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.

John 16:28 KJV

I came forth from the Father, and am come into the world: again, I leave the world, and go to the Father.

Jesus was leaving the world. He was about to complete his mission by dying on the cross so he began to prepare the minds of his disciples by telling them exactly so. Naturally, they felt sad. The Teacher, helper, cormforter, advocate etc. Was going to leave them after all he had taught and shown them. They felt abandoned like Orphans. So he shares a secret with them that he is sure will make up for his absence: that when he leaves the father would send 'Allos Parakletos' meaning another one of the same kind. The only difference being that he would be a spirit that will live in the disciples butwwould be unseen or unknown to natural men.

Jesus goes further by saying it is to their advantage that he leaves the scene. For if he doesn't, that Spirit of truth will not come. The Spirit of truth is whom Jesus referred to as Allos Parakletos. He was to REPLACE Jesus in the lives of the disciples because he is EXACTLY like Jesus and Jesus was leaving the scene.

Jesus said he would testify of him and only take from him to show the world. Jesus said he would teach all truth (the same 'all' truths Jesus could not share with his disciples at the time). He was to glorify Jesus and make Jesus 'still present' in the disciples life even though Jesus would be in heaven. That's why Paul kept saying "if Christ be in you" "till Christ be formed in you" etc. Christ will only be present in the christians life by the agency of the Holy Spirit.

In 2 Corinthians 13:14, Paul shows us who we are to fellowship with. He says we are to know the Love of God and the Grace of the Lord Jesus but when he gets to the Holy Spirit, he tells us to have communion, fellowship, intimacy with him. Why? Because he is the one present now in the world and in the life of a christian. Not a single person can claim to know Jesus without fellowshiping with the Holy Spirit. That's why feel for those who neglect their devotions to him and in the same breath claim they know Jesus. It is not possible.

This is the reason there are some self styled christians that question the way this precious Holy Spirit of God chooses to manifest himself. They question it because they do not know the one who makes these manifestations possible- The Spirit of Christ himself and we are in his DISPENSATION.

The Holy Spirit did not start manifesting in Hagin but right ten days AFTER Pentecost. How are we to understand that it is the Spirit manifesting if He manifests in ways outside the Revealed Word? Do we have a reference point?
What if I woke up today and recieved the spirit of palm reading or barking like a wild dog? Would you question what 'Spirit' is doing in my life?

mbaemeka:
John 16:7 KJV

[size=4pt]Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient and I you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.

John 16:28 KJV

I came forth from the Father, and am come into the world: again, I leave the world, and go to the Father.

Jesus was leaving the world. He was about to complete his mission by dying on the cross so he began to prepare the minds of his disciples by telling them exactly so. Naturally, they felt sad. The Teacher, helper, cormforter, advocate etc. Was going to leave them after all he had taught and shown them. They felt abandoned like Orphans. So he shares a secret with them that he is sure will make up for his absence: that when he leaves the father would send 'Allos Parakletos' meaning another one of the same kind. The only difference being that he would be a spirit that will live in the disciples butwwould be unseen or unknown to natural men.

Jesus goes further by saying it is to their advantage that he leaves the scene. For if he doesn't, that Spirit of truth will not come. The Spirit of truth is whom Jesus referred to as Allos Parakletos. He was to REPLACE Jesus in the lives of the disciples because he is EXACTLY like Jesus and Jesus was leaving the scene.

Jesus said he would testify of him and only take from him to show the world. Jesus said he would teach all truth (the same 'all' truths Jesus could not share with his disciples at the time). He was to glorify Jesus and make Jesus 'still present' in the disciples life even though Jesus would be in heaven. That's why Paul kept saying "if Christ be in you" "till Christ be formed in you" etc. Christ will only be present in the christians life by the agency of the Holy Spirit.

In 2 Corinthians 13:14, Paul shows us who we are to fellowship with. He says we are to know the Love of God and the Grace of the Lord Jesus but when he gets to the Holy Spirit, he tells us to have communion, fellowship, intimacy with him. Why? Because he is the one present now in the world and in the life of a christian. Not a single person can claim to know Jesus without fellowshiping with the Holy Spirit. That's why feel for those who neglect their devotions to him and in the same breath claim they know Jesus. It is not possible.
[/size]
T This is the reason there are some self styled christians that question the way this precious Holy Spirit of God chooses to manifest himself .They question it because they do not know the one who makes these manifestations possible- The Spirit of Christ himself and we are in his DISPENSATION.

mbaemeka:
John 16:7 KJV
Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient and I you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.
John 16:28 KJV
I came forth from the Father, and am come into the world: again, I leave the world, and go to the Father.
Jesus was leaving the world. He was about to complete his mission by dying on the cross so he began to prepare the minds of his disciples by telling them exactly so. Naturally, they felt sad. The Teacher, helper, cormforter, advocate etc. Was going to leave them after all he had taught and shown them. They felt abandoned like Orphans. So he shares a secret with them that he is sure will make up for his absence: that when he leaves the father would send 'Allos Parakletos' meaning another one of the same kind. The only difference being that he would be a spirit that will live in the disciples butwwould be unseen or unknown to natural men.
Jesus goes further by saying it is to their advantage that he leaves the scene. For if he doesn't, that Spirit of truth will not come. The Spirit of truth is whom Jesus referred to as Allos Parakletos. He was to REPLACE Jesus in the lives of the disciples because he is EXACTLY like Jesus and Jesus was leaving the scene.
Jesus said he would testify of him and only take from him to show the world. Jesus said he would teach all truth (the same 'all' truths Jesus could not share with his disciples at the time). He was to glorify Jesus and make Jesus 'still present' in the disciples life even though Jesus would be in heaven. That's why Paul kept saying "if Christ be in you" "till Christ be formed in you" etc. Christ will only be present in the christians life by the agency of the Holy Spirit.
In 2 Corinthians 13:14, Paul shows us who we are to fellowship with. He says we are to know the Love of God and the Grace of the Lord Jesus but when he gets to the Holy Spirit, he tells us to have communion, fellowship, intimacy with him. Why? Because he is the one present now in the world and in the life of a christian. Not a single person can claim to know Jesus without fellowshiping with the Holy Spirit. That's why feel for those who neglect their devotions to him and in the same breath claim they know Jesus. It is not possible.
This is the reason there are some self styled christians that question the way this precious Holy Spirit of God chooses to manifest himself. They question it because they do not know the one who makes these manifestations possible- The Spirit of Christ himself and we are in his DISPENSATION.

Thank you, jare. It is sad that some people that call themselves Christians don't know this simple truth. I didn't have the strength to do the bobo's homework for him. Sadder still because this guy claimed to have attended Sprit-filled churches for years until he was shown the door by one last year or so.

WinsomeX:


You said the Holy Spirit came to replace Jesus. I said no. You said this dispensation is the dispensation of the Spirit and I said no it isn't.

DrummaBoy had pasted an article where he made it clear that the Christian devotion was to Christ and not to the Spirit. A point he believes was drawn home by the Spirit being mentioned once on Colossians. He said that the over emphasis on the Spirit is the root of errors by groups like the Pentecostals that leads them into mysticism. Even at that he made it clear that he was not belittling the Holy Spirit only stating that Christians should lay the right emphasis.

You refuted this position by saying that the Holy Spirit has come to replace Christ and I made it clear to you that that is error because the gospel we preach is the Gospel of Jesus Christ and not of the Spirit and our devotion is to Christ and not the Spirit.

Apparently when the error of your initial position downed on you, you have now helped us with your "in that sense statement" below. But the fact remains that the root of so much errors in the church, especially Pentecostals, is mysticism that arises from an emphasis on the Spirit that scripture does not teach. If however it is in this "sense" you mean that the Spirit "replaced" Christ in us, we are on the same page then.





I am not "attacking" anyone. If that's how your simple mind sees it, then mature in thinking. I just told your "boy" the facts I am defending here.

Also, my Christian life is not experience based. I don't count them as things to recount to anyone. They are personal and yes I will keep them closeted. You could as well ask Paul why he kept his closeted too.

2 Corinthians 12:4 How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.

And as to your counsel to seek a "deeper Christian life", thank you but no thanks. Go and find out the beginning of all errors in all religion. It was always because the simplicity of Christ was not enough for them and while seeking "deeper life" they encountered demons. I don't need it. I am complete in Christ - the message of epistle to the Colossians.

I have said the same thing since the beginning. If you couldn't catch it earlier, that's your problem, not mine.

Paul talked about and demonstrated his experiences. He said he spoke in tongues more than them all. Do you speak in tongues? He said Jesus appeared to him a number of times. He said the gospel or kingdom was not in speech, but in power. And he showed it by manifesting spiritual gifts to heal, cast out demons and cause blindness. Have you manifested any spiritual gifts? At least, let's judge you by the standard by the standard you have selected - Paul's.

Even in the scripture you quoted, Paul mentioned he had been somewhere, the third heaven, and saw things but wouldn't disclose all he heard there. Where have you been, even if you don't want to share what you heard?

You guys amuse me with your penchant for dissecting other people's lives but want to keep yours off limits. Some of you even want ministers to disclose their health situation, claiming that Paul did. Ok, now follow Paul and tell us about your spiritual life.

vooks:


GBAM!

I may be mistaken, but were you not the guy that asked that pidgin not be spoken to you because you're not Nigerian? You know of and use Gbam, huh?

nlMediator:


Thank you, jare. It is sad that some people that call themselves Christians don't know this simple truth. I didn't have the strength to do the bobo's homework for him. Sadder still because this guy claimed to have attended Sprit-filled churches for years until he was shown the door by one last year or so.

nlMediator:


I may be mistaken, but were you not the guy that asked that pidgin not be spoken to you because you're not Nigerian? You know of and use Gbam, huh?

Forget this guy jare! I know who he really is. Hahhahhaahaahhaahahaha

They should keep on deceiving themselves

Gombs:
Honesty bro! That's the back bone of our discussions.

I can understand vook being the new shedemidemi, but, not what you're trying to do. smiley

Cheers

Mr Gombs! Since when has it become a crime to watch from behind the curtain? I chose to keep mute bro, I had nothing to add to this book. I believe the writer of the book is in error, how well can a blind man lead another blind.

The mark of true spirituality is when somebody corrects you and they are right and you readily debunk and repent from what you did know and embrace what is the truth. It's quite unfortunate that most religious nairalanders find it difficult to do this.

We have so many confused cults, denominations and sects within the christian community because we refuse to dissect, divide the word of God appropriately. We have so much trust in the interpretation of our god like pastors and teachers so much that that we refuse to discern a false teacher from a true teacher of God's word.

These supposed men draw us to parts of scriptures that promises so much earthly utopia. I wonder if they themselves live in the perfect world they try to sell to us! For this reason, we abandon the words of the very minister appointed by God to us gentiles, while some simply conflate the words of this apostle with a separate programme message.

Romans 11
13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office:

Do we force health, wealth and prosperity gospel on the present dispensation of grace? of course we do. A topic our Apostle(one sent forth) never taught.

Philippians 4

5 Let your moderation be known unto all men. The Lord is at hand.

6 Be careful for nothing; but in every thing by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known unto God.

7 And the peace of God, which passeth all understanding, shall keep your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus.

The Apostle says to the body of Christ that we should make our request to God, but he never said we shall receive because we have asked. God might say yes to it, He might delay it and He might say no to it. It's God's will and not the will of man.

Many christians ignore this part that was primarily written to the church for the earthly/kingdom programme that says -

mat 21:22
22 And all things, whatsoever ye shall ask in prayer, believing, ye shall receive.

14 If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.

How many people have prayed this prayer and it doesn't happen! In fact, God answers more of the things we never asked Him than the ones we ask to show us how sovereign He is. This sort of teaching frustrate so many who are yet to be completely deluded by their prosperity teachers and life coaches.

We mix so many things that were not specifically written to the body of Christ, such as-

Baptism
Some mix water baptism with the spiritual baptism,

Forgiveness
some mix God's conditional forgiveness(Mat 6:15 But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.) with the unconditional forgiveness taught by the Apostle under Grace.
col 2:13
13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;

Prayer
The apostle says- Rom 8:26- Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit(Holy Spirit) itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.

Yet, some make claims that they have been called in to a ministry of prayer.


We will continue having these baseless arguments if we keep mixing the earthly people and their message with the heavenly people/body of Christ.

I picked it up from Gombs. Pidgin I can't speak nor write.Am tempted to post his silly gifs just to tease him. Oyaks will be the character

nlMediator:


I may be mistaken, but were you not the guy that asked that pidgin not be spoken to you because you're not Nigerian? You know of and use Gbam, huh?

mbaemeka:
John 16:7 KJV

Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient and I you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.

John 16:28 KJV

I came forth from the Father, and am come into the world: again, I leave the world, and go to the Father.

Jesus was leaving the world. He was about to complete his mission by dying on the cross so he began to prepare the minds of his disciples by telling them exactly so. Naturally, they felt sad. The Teacher, helper, cormforter, advocate etc. Was going to leave them after all he had taught and shown them. They felt abandoned like Orphans. So he shares a secret with them that he is sure will make up for his absence: that when he leaves the father would send 'Allos Parakletos' meaning another one of the same kind. The only difference being that he would be a spirit that will live in the disciples butwwould be unseen or unknown to natural men.

Jesus goes further by saying it is to their advantage that he leaves the scene. For if he doesn't, that Spirit of truth will not come. The Spirit of truth is whom Jesus referred to as Allos Parakletos. He was to REPLACE Jesus in the lives of the disciples because he is EXACTLY like Jesus and Jesus was leaving the scene.

Jesus said he would testify of him and only take from him to show the world. Jesus said he would teach all truth (the same 'all' truths Jesus could not share with his disciples at the time). He was to glorify Jesus and make Jesus 'still present' in the disciples life even though Jesus would be in heaven. That's why Paul kept saying "if Christ be in you" "till Christ be formed in you" etc. Christ will only be present in the christians life by the agency of the Holy Spirit.

In 2 Corinthians 13:14, Paul shows us who we are to fellowship with. He says we are to know the Love of God and the Grace of the Lord Jesus but when he gets to the Holy Spirit, he tells us to have communion, fellowship, intimacy with him. Why? Because he is the one present now in the world and in the life of a christian. Not a single person can claim to know Jesus without fellowshiping with the Holy Spirit. That's why feel for those who neglect their devotions to him and in the same breath claim they know Jesus. It is not possible.

This is the reason there are some self styled christians that question the way this precious Holy Spirit of God chooses to manifest himself. They question it because they do not know the one who makes these manifestations possible- The Spirit of Christ himself and we are in his DISPENSATION.

I agree with everything you have written. I do not deny the person of the Holy Spirit. Indeed the Holy Spirit is Christ in us. If it is "in this sense" you see the Spirit REPLACING Christ in us, I cannot argue further. But note that the emphasis is on the name Christ: "Christ in us..." There is a reason for it. It is Christ the Holy Spirit glorifies.

There is however a danger with a devotion to spirits, it opens up the believers to all kinds of spirit that have gone into the world and that's why there must be that distinction btw the Spirit of Christ and other spirits. Same way as the NT has distinguished God as the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ from other gods. The name Christ is the distinction and he remains the object of our worship. If our devotion is made to a Spirit, it must be in Jesus name, anything else is cultic.

This also does not justify extra biblical occurrences like laughing in the Spirit.

shdemidemi:

Mr Gombs! Since when as it become a crime to watch from behind the curtain? I chose to keep mute bro, I had nothing to add to this book. I believe the writer of the book is in error, how well can a blind man lead another blind.

Very believable!

The mark of true spirituality is when somebody corrects you and they are right and you readily debunk and repent from what you did know and embrace what is the truth. It's quite unfortunate that most religious nairalanders find it difficult to do this.

SMH

We have so many confused cults, denominations and sects within the christian community because we refuse to dissect, divide the word of God appropriately. We have so much trust in the interpretation of our god like pastors and teachers so much that that we refuse to discern a false teacher from a true teacher of God's word.

You should borrow a leaf from WinsomeX

These supposed men draw us to parts of scriptures that promises so much earthly utopia. I wonder if they themselves live in the perfect world they try to sell to us! For this reason, we abandon the words of the very minister appointed by God to us gentiles, while some simply conflate the words of this apostle with a separate programme message.

Romans 11
13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office:

Do we force health, wealth and prosperity gospel on the present dispensation of grace? of course we do. A topic our Apostle(one sent forth) never taught.

Philippians 4

5 Let your moderation be known unto all men. The Lord is at hand.

6 Be careful for nothing; but in every thing by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known unto God.

7 And the peace of God, which passeth all understanding, shall keep your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus.

Eternally misquoting scriptures.

The Apostle says to the body of Christ that we should make our request to God, but he never said we shall receive because we have asked. God might say yes to it, He might delay it and He might say no to it. It's God's will and not the will of man.

Lame excuses for weak faith.

Many christians ignore this part that was primarily written to the church for the earthly/kingdom programme that says -

mat 21:22
22 And all things, whatsoever ye shall ask in prayer, believing, ye shall receive.

14 If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.

SMH

How many people have prayed this prayer and it doesn't happen! In fact, God answers more of the things we never asked Him than the ones we ask to show us how sovereign He is. This sort of teaching frustrate so many who are yet to be completely deluded by their prosperity teachers and life coaches.

Ha!

Baptism
Some mix water baptism with the spiritual baptism,

Forgiveness
some mix God's conditional forgiveness(Mat 6:15 But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.) with the unconditional forgiveness taught by the Apostle under Grace.
col 2:13
13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;

Prayer
The apostle says- Rom 8:26- Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit(Holy Spirit) itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.

Yet, some make claims that they have been called in to a ministry of prayer.


We will continue having these baseless arguments if we keep mixing the earthly people and heavenly people.

Noted!

WinsomeX:

I agree with everything you have written. I do not deny the person of the Holy Spirit. Indeed the Holy Spirit is Christ in us. If it is "in this sense" you see the Spirit REPLACING Christ in us, I cannot argue further. But note that the emphasis is on the name Christ: "Christ in us..." There is a reason for it. It is Christ the Holy Spirit glorifies.
There is however a danger with a devotion to spirits, it opens up the believers to all kinds of spirit that have gone into the world and that's why there must be that distinction btw the Spirit of Christ and other spirits. Same way as the NT has distinguished God as the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ from other gods. The name Christ is the distinction and he remains the object of our worship. If our devotion is made to a Spirit, it must be in Jesus name, anything else is cultic.
This also does not justify extra biblical occurrences like laughing in the Spirit.

Very well.

Jesus said the Holy Spirit will be sent in his name (John 14:26) but the name of a Person isn't only in the pronunciation but also in the demonstration of the character behind the name and the authority behind the character. So even if I don't 'say' in Jesus name to do some things, one can still tell that he is behind what I am doing as long as it is done in his words or deeds (Colossians 3:17).

For example, the OT already talked about speaking in tongues as a manifestation of the Spirit of God. But on the day of Pentecost, many Jews and proselyte Jews saw that prophecy being manifested yet they critisized it because it did not happen to who they expected it to happen to and when they expected it as well.

In Romans 8:26 Paul spoke about another way that the Holy Spirit could manifest himself through a believer. On first read, you would think he was referring to speaking in tongues there but that could not be as Tongues in itself is a heavenly language but in ARTICULATE speech. In other words, proper words are spoken but they are of a heavenly origin. But in this verse I cited Paul said the Holy Spirit could also manifest himself through "unutterable" groans. This means the groans will not be in pronounceable words or in articulate speech but they would still have a heavenly meaning (in this case the will of God).

I am sure you have seen someone groan. Now imagine looking at him praying and groaning making funny sounds would you not think some thing is wrong? Well in the physical standpoint it could appear that way but Paul said in the spiritrealm such a person will be praying the will of God. Now compare groaning to laughing. We can see that they have the same denominators in the sense that they are both 'unutterable' or 'inarticulate'. So we would be amiss to see someone who might be praying that way and assume that he is doing so under any unction but the Holy Spirit's. That's why Jesus spoke and blindness left yet at another time he spat into the ground and used the mud to heal blindness. Who instructed him to do it either ways? The Holy Spirit. Do we have a fixed way for determining how he would manifest himself? The answer is simply no.

Gombs:


Very believable!



SMH



You should borrow a leaf from WinsomeX







Eternally misquoting scriptures.



Lame excuses for weak faith.



SMH



Ha!



Noted!

[size=18pt]Clown![/size]

vooks:
I picked it up from Gombs. Pidgin I can't speak nor write.Am tempted to post his silly gifs just to tease him. Oyaks will be the character

Save that for neonates!

Can Holy Spirit manifest Himself differently from what is recorded in the scriptures?

mbaemeka:


[size=4pt]Very well.

Jesus said the Holy Spirit will be sent in his name (John 14:26) but the name of a Person isn't only in the pronunciation but also in the demonstration of the character behind the name and the authority behind the character. So even if I don't 'say' in Jesus name to do some things, one can still tell that he is behind what I am doing as long as it is done in his words or deeds (Colossians 3:17).

For example, the OT already talked about speaking in tongues as a manifestation of the Spirit of God. But on the day of Pentecost, many Jews and proselyte Jews saw that prophecy being manifested yet they critisized it because it did not happen to who they expected it to happen to and when they expected it as well.

In Romans 8:26 Paul spoke about another way that the Holy Spirit could manifest himself through a believer. On first read, you would think he was referring to speaking in tongues there but that could not be as Tongues in itself is a heavenly language but in ARTICULATE speech. In other words, proper words are spoken but they are of a heavenly origin. But in this verse I cited Paul said the Holy Spirit could also manifest himself through "unutterable" groans. This means the groans will not be in pronounceable words or in articulate speech but they would still have a heavenly meaning (in this case the will of God).

I am sure you have seen someone groan. Now imagine looking at him praying and groaning making funny sounds would you not think some thing is wrong? Well in the physical standpoint it could appear that way but Paul said in the spiritrealm such a person will be praying the will of God. Now compare groaning to laughing. We can see that they have the same denominators in the sense that they are both 'unutterable' or 'inarticulate'. So we would be amiss to see someone who might be praying that way and assume that he is doing so under any unction but the Holy Spirit's. That's why Jesus spoke and blindness left yet at another time he spat into the ground and used the mud to heal blindness. Who instructed him to do it either ways? The Holy Spirit.[/size] Do we have a fixed way for determining how he would manifest himself? The answer is simply no.

I have those moments I wish I was a kid. That's when the idea of silly gifs come up

Gombs:


Save that for neonates!

mbaemeka:


Very well.

Jesus said the Holy Spirit will be sent in his name (John 14:26) but the name of a Person isn't only in the pronunciation but also in the demonstration of the character behind the name and the authority behind the character. So even if I don't 'say' in Jesus name to do some things, one can still tell that he is behind what I am doing as long as it is done in his words or deeds (Colossians 3:17).

For example, the OT already talked about speaking in tongues as a manifestation of the Spirit of God. But on the day of Pentecost, many Jews and proselyte Jews saw that prophecy being manifested yet they critisized it because it did not happen to who they expected it to happen to and when they expected it as well.

In Romans 8:26 Paul spoke about another way that the Holy Spirit could manifest himself through a believer. On first read, you would think he was referring to speaking in tongues there but that could not be as Tongues in itself is a heavenly language but in ARTICULATE speech. In other words, proper words are spoken but they are of a heavenly origin. But in this verse I cited Paul said the Holy Spirit could also manifest himself through "unutterable" groans. This means the groans will not be in pronounceable words or in articulate speech but they would still have a heavenly meaning (in this case the will of God).

I am sure you have seen someone groan. Now imagine looking at him praying and groaning making funny sounds would you not think some thing is wrong? Well in the physical standpoint it could appear that way but Paul said in the spiritrealm such a person will be praying the will of God. Now compare groaning to laughing. We can see that they have the same denominators in the sense that they are both 'unutterable' or 'inarticulate'. So we would be amiss to see someone who might be praying that way and assume that he is doing so under any unction but the Holy Spirit's. That's why Jesus spoke and blindness left yet at another time he spat into the ground and used the mud to heal blindness. Who instructed him to do it either ways? The Holy Spirit. Do we have a fixed way for determining how he would manifest himself? The answer is simply no.

Romans 8:26 Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.

Groaning in the Spirit is not laughing in the Spirit. Jesus was also said to have groaned in the Spirit, no one can claim the Master was laughing at that occasion of Lazarus' grave.

John 11:33 When Jesus therefore saw her weeping, and the Jews also weeping which came with her, he groaned in the spirit, and was troubled,

You will need to go outside the bible to find occasions where people where laughing in the Spirit. Truth is that the biblical tongues are articulate, as you said, in the sense that they could be interpreted. We may need to find an interpreter for Hagin's laughter, if you must compare laughter to tongues.

While we can't box God's Spirit and his manifestations, we open up ourselves to deception when we cannot find a yardstick to measure a so called workings of God. Scripture says where the Spirit of God operates, there is liberty. The kingdom of God is righteousness, peace and joy. Finally, the operations of Jesus and his apostles found their origin in the given scriptures of that time - the OT. Thus we have the yardstick to measure God's workings. That something is new, spectacular or even spiritual does not make it God's. We must measure these things by God's standard as aforementioned.

So you may have to make some more efforts to prove that laughter in the Spirit is scriptural.

The challenge you and others have is that you cannot see the likes of Hagin or Chris Oyakhilome as fallible. Therefore anything they do is correct. You use them as standard of truth, rather than allowing truth to prove them right or wrong. So if they divorce their wives, they are men of God, they must be right doing it. If they laugh in the Spirit, the same thing.

vooks:
I have those moments I wish I was a kid. That's when the idea of silly gifs come up

trustman:

[size=18pt]Clown![/size]

WinsomeX:

Romans 8:26 Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.
Groaning in the Spirit is not laughing in the Spirit. Jesus was also said to have groaned in the Spirit, no one can claim the Master was laughing at that occasion of Lazarus' grave.
John 11:33 When Jesus therefore saw her weeping, and the Jews also weeping which came with her, he groaned in the spirit, and was troubled,
You will need to go outside the bible to find occasions where people where laughing in the Spirit. Truth is that the biblical tongues are articulate, as you said, in the sense that they could be interpreted. We may need to find an interpreter for Hagin's laughter, if you must compare laughter to tongues.
While we can't box God's Spirit and his manifestations, we open up ourselves to deception when we cannot find a yardstick to measure a so called workings of God. Scripture says where the Spirit of God operates, there is liberty. The kingdom of God is righteousness, peace and joy. Finally, the operations of Jesus and his apostles found their origin in the given scriptures of that time - the OT. Thus we have the yardstick to measure God's workings. That something is new, spectacular or even spiritual does not make it God's. We must measure these things by God's standard as aforementioned.
So you may have to make some more efforts to prove that laughter in the Spirit is scriptural.
The challenge you and others have is that you cannot see the likes of Hagin or Chris Oyakhilome as fallible. Therefore anything they do is correct. You use them as standard of truth, rather than allowing truth to prove them right or wrong. So if they divorce their wives, they are men of God, they must be right doing it. If they laugh in the Spirit, the same thing.

The bible says Jesus groaned 'in the spirit' but Paul spoke about a groaning 'BY the spirit'. These two instances differ. That notwithstanding if Paul (by the Holy Spirit) had not recorded his testimony in Romans 8:26 we would have still assumed that groaning was extra biblical because we didn't see any other disciples do so. The fact again says that the invisible God laughs in Heaven even as he groaned while on earth. They are not extra biblical concepts as it were. Moreso, Paul never spoke about interpreting the groans. He simply said that such groans were initiated by God's spirit at times when we may not know how to pray as we ought to, so in the same line God's spirit could initiate the same laughter through us with a particular motive in mind.

Just like the example I gave Jesus did different things to elicit different miracles at different times and all still boils down to the workings and operations of the spirit. He made Elisha lay untop the widows son before raising him back to life but he made Peter to speak the word to Dorcas and she was raised. I cannot therefore say that the ONLY two ways he makes people come back to life is by making one lay untop of them or to simply speak the word. What if he says Laugh infront of person, will he stop being the spirit of God because of so?

Speaking of God's standard, how do me measure it? Hope you know that Jesus, the word is God's standard. So you may try to explain what standard Jesus used when he used mud to heal blindness and when he just spoke the word. You would find out that Jesus, like he said, only did what the Father in him (the Holy Spirit) told him to do.

The challenge you and some others have is that you do not have true fellowship with the initiator of the manifestations nor do you drink daily from that fresh anointing that he is known to constantly provide. When you do, you would find yourself experiencing some of these manifestations that some of these men experience(d) and as such you would have no qualms in recognising the works of the spirit more so, when the same Spirit lives in you and is ever ready to tell you which workings are his and which are not.

Jesus said God is looking for true worshipers who would worship him in spirit (first) and in truth (the word). No christian can be misled when these 2 conditions are met and Jesus never says something if it is not true.

vooks:
Can Holy Spirit manifest Himself differently from what is recorded in the scriptures?

He never told us that his manifestations are ONLY what would be recorded in scripture.

mbaemeka:


The bible says Jesus groaned 'in the spirit' but Paul spoke about a groaning 'BY the spirit'. These two instances differ. That notwithstanding if Paul (by the Holy Spirit) had not recorded his testimony in Romans 8:26 we would have still assumed that groaning was extra biblical because we didn't see any other disciples do so. The fact again says that the invisible God laughs in Heaven even as he groaned while on earth. They are not extra biblical concepts as it were. Moreso, Paul never spoke about interpreting the groans. He simply said that such groans were initiated by God's spirit at times when we may not know how to pray as we ought to, so in the same line God's spirit could initiate the same laughter through us with a particular motive in mind.

Who does the groaning in Romans 8:26- the believer, the believer's spirit or the Holy Spirit?

shdemidemi:

Who does the groaning in Romans 8:26- the believer, the believer's spirit or the Holy Spirit?

Not trying to avoid the question. But was I right in my conclusion that YOU agree that we are in the Age of the Holy Ghost, just as the previous Age was that of Jesus Christ and earlier one was that of the Father? Care to elaborate further, so people can learn some more? I think you did a fine job of it the other time.

So, since He never said that,does He manifest in any way not recorded in the scriptures?

mbaemeka:


He never told us that his manifestations are ONLY what would be recorded in scripture.