Should We Stop Giving Tithe? - Religion (12) - Nairaland
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| Re: Should We Stop Giving Tithe? by segyemaro(m): 11:55pm On Dec 16, 2009 |
Biina,you are among those that have been brainwashed by those greedy pastors |
| Re: Should We Stop Giving Tithe? by biina: 12:15am On Dec 17, 2009 |
segyemaro:That is funny giving that you dont know what I do with my tithe, nor if I belong to any specific church  Like I said earlier, the question one should answer is 'should I pay my tithes?' and not 'should a pastor be collecting tithes?' |
| Re: Should We Stop Giving Tithe? by Beautymc(f): 5:40am On Dec 17, 2009 |
echo- bee:My dear, i support u b'cos it's meant for God. And i don't care if anybody uses it to buy a jet. For sure, am getting blessed everyday just by paying my one tenth. By God's grace, i soon be paying my tithe in millions. |
| Re: Should We Stop Giving Tithe? by KunleOshob(m): 8:45am On Dec 17, 2009 |
biina:The day i am shown one single christian teaching to pay tithes in the bible, i would be the greatest and most faithful tithe payer. @biina i hope you know there are several christian injunctions in the bible that christians are not bound by Jewish laws. Read galatians 5:4 for starters then read the whole of galatians 3 & 5 it really explains what the whole laws were about and their purpose. ALso read romanns 10:4 |
| Re: Should We Stop Giving Tithe? by KunleOshob(m): 8:51am On Dec 17, 2009 |
I also have a testimony to give, a friend of mine told me how his wife was set free from the yoke and shackles of tithes recently when he showed her some bible passages which i gave to him to explain why tithing today in chucrhes is a fraudulent application of biblical injunctions and is not relevant to christianity. She not only stopped paying tithes but she stopped attending the church when the pastor started harrassing her for not paying her tithes anymore. She used to be a memeber of RCCG. I thank God for setting free this young woman from this man made bondage. Let somebody shout Halleluiah!!!!!!  |
| Re: Should We Stop Giving Tithe? by mavenbox: 9:44am On Dec 17, 2009 |
@Biina: The undeniable excellence of the Lord God is upon you. Thanks. Selah. @KunleOshob: Did the Holy Spirit ask you to stop paying tithes altogether, or did He say you should not pay it to those pastors in monetary form? By my understanding, spiritual laws are never abolished. They are upgraded if need be, but never demolished. So, what replaces the law of tithes? |
| Re: Should We Stop Giving Tithe? by KunleOshob(m): 10:01am On Dec 17, 2009 |
mavenbox:The holy sprit NEVER asked even the children of Israel to pay tithes as biblical tithes directed under the jewish laws was not money but 10% of the produce of the land.They gave of their produce not paid. Those who did not produce from the land were not expected to tithe and it was strictly a jewish law [hence the apostles never taught it to the early christians]to partly support the defunct levitical priesthood, orphans, widows and other less priviledged. That aside the tithing law was not a spiritual law but a ceremonial one. Tithing was alos specifically abolished for christians please read Hebrews:7:5-19 with special emphasis on verse 11,12 &18. It was not only anulled but condenmed as weak useless and an unprofitable law. c cor 9:7 forms the standard of christian giving and not tithes or other manipulative injunctions. |
| Re: Should We Stop Giving Tithe? by biina: 10:46am On Dec 17, 2009 |
KunleOshob:I am aware of all the passages you referenced, our difference is in the understanding of them. The 'What' provides knowledge, while the 'Why' leads to understanding. While you seem preoccupied with which laws are active and which are not, I am more interested in why the laws were given. I am curious as to your opinion on some other Jewish laws like on sexual partners, eating blood,and the sabbath. Are some or all of theses laws also invalid? Are we still bound by the commandments? If you dont know the purpose of tithing, then how do know its importance or relevance? Have you wondered why offerings to God were often burnt? but then for you it is all about the pastors who are collecting the tithes and less about how paying of tithes (or otherwise) affects your relationship with God. |
| Re: Should We Stop Giving Tithe? by Tonyet1(m): 11:03am On Dec 17, 2009 |
mavenbox: Wisdom my sister, wisdom there. bravo!  |
| Re: Should We Stop Giving Tithe? by KunleOshob(m): 11:10am On Dec 17, 2009 |
@biina Just as i though, you failed to address the issues i raised, talkless of showing me a single christian injunction to tithe. I have already addressed why the tithing law instituted but you failed to acknowledged that by presenting the question to me again.Do you know that there was a caveat for including the levites as part beneficiaries of the tithes? The caveat being they were not allowed to own land of their own. i wonder how many of our pastors abide by this caveat today. Numbers 18:23-24: 23 Only the Levites may serve at the Tabernacle, and they will be held responsible for any offenses against it. This is a permanent law for you, to be observed from generation to generation. The Levites will receive no allotment of land among the Israelites, 24 because I have given them the Israelites’ tithes, which have been presented as sacred offerings to the Lord. This will be the Levites’ share. That is why I said they would receive no allotment of land among the Israelites.” Deuteronomy 12:11-12: 11 you must bring everything I command you—your burnt offerings, your sacrifices, your tithes, your sacred offerings, and your offerings to fulfill a vow—to the designated place of worship, the place the Lord your God chooses for his name to be honored. 12 “You must celebrate there in the presence of the Lord your God with your sons and daughters and all your servants. And remember to include the Levites who live in your towns, for they will receive no allotment of land among you. Deuteronomy 14:28-29: 28 “At the end of every third year, bring the entire tithe of that year’s harvest and store it in the nearest town. 29 Give it to the Levites, who will receive no allotment of land among you, as well as to the foreigners living among you, the orphans, and the widows in your towns, so they can eat and be satisfied. Then the Lord your God will bless you in all your work. The bible is very clear, the reason why levites were allowed to partake of tithes was becos they were not allowed to own property, so any preacher parading himself as a levite today must first of all give up the right to own property before he can ask to partake out of our tithes. Our preachers today are trying to eat their cake and still have it |
| Re: Should We Stop Giving Tithe? by Tonyet1(m): 11:13am On Dec 17, 2009 |
KunleOshob: another baseless post, was the Holy Spirit given in the OT?, howbeit, The Bible says, and the Lord said, the tithes of the land. . . ~ should be given to the me. do you want a scripture? baby boy  Ok lets just say your wrong ascertion of tithe as the produce of the land is correct, so what!, whether it is given of land produce or what ever, what matters is that YOU SHOULD TITHE. PERIOD! KunleOshob: God have mercy  , so what then happened in Nehemiah 13:12 which said "and all Judah brought their tithe. . . " do you even read he bible at all. did you also say the Apostles never practised it, ok lets see.Tithing - what did Jesus and Paul say? |
| Re: Should We Stop Giving Tithe? by Tonyet1(m): 11:24am On Dec 17, 2009 |
KunleOshob: Mr.KunleOshod, that caveat ascertion of yours only applied to the Israelite nation who practised the Administrative tithe, while the original tithe(ma'aser) was given to Kings (like King Melchisedek) who were known to own just about everything yet still receive tithes.  KunleOshob: 1. Yes, the levites took tithes because they never owned a landed property/inheritance howbeit Melchisedek was a King thus he owned every land within his power and yet still receive tithe. so! what are you trying to notion? *laughs* 2. There aint any such things as levites, but apostles, deacons, teachers, bishops who work in the NT assembly and as such should eat from the gospel they minister. >>>1 corinthians 9: 13 Don't you know that those who work in the temple get their food from the temple, and those who serve at the altar share in what is offered on the altar? 14 In the same way, the Lord [Jesus Christ] has commanded that those who preach the gospel should receive their living from the gospel. I laugh in Kunleoshod's language, Kunle when will you stop twisting scriptures to deceive innocent folks here. come over to the debate ground i am still waiting for mr. frightened man. Come over here |
| Re: Should We Stop Giving Tithe? by biina: 11:44am On Dec 17, 2009 |
KunleOshob:There is no point in recycling bible verses as I expect that you have read most if not all; the question is over your understanding of them. I don't remember you answering the questions of why Abraham paid tithe (you only said it was voluntary), why Jacob pledged to pay tithe, why it was commanded of Israel, and/or why God accused them of robbing him by not paying their tithes. Instead you have been harping on why pastors should not receive your tithe and that it is optional. Again you seem more worried about the preachers than yourself. BTW you didnt answer my question as regards the other laws |
| Re: Should We Stop Giving Tithe? by Tonyet1(m): 12:08pm On Dec 17, 2009 |
And to add to your point biina, tithing has never been a law, but was only introduced to the mosaic law era. read this: Tithing – The Law debate Law could be defined as a decree, principle or ruling guiding a thing/people/standard and most times are documented as a biblos for referencing. Whereas an ordinance is a rite/ritual/spiritual trail. Howbeit the usage of both is for orderliness and objectivity; a law can be put in place to show how a ritual is to be performed. If we go on saying that Law has been abolished how then we have “thou shall not murder”and others still relevant, as well as the Law of Grace, the Law of the spirit of Life, why can’t we go on to say they have all been abolished? After all they are all laws. It is in my opinion that the laws of Moses is what we should know as obsolete (which are the laws of ceareal offering, animal sacrifice, priestly consecration by animal blood) and not the laws of God, for the Laws of the latter are all without errors whilst that of the former was a man’s law which even the scriptures said “…was given because of the hardness of their hearts”- Ps.81:12. Tithe has never been a Law but rather an ordinance, for the Law of Moses only provided how this ordinance was to be administered to a particular nation (Israelites). when you read the Old Testament, you will find out that God specifically gave LAWS and he made them understand it was a LAW, hence it goes clearly stated - Ex.12:49 - " The LAW of the 1st born" - Lev.6:14 - " The LAW of the cereal offering" - Lev. 6:25- " The LAW of the sin offering" - Lev.7:7 - " The LAW of the sacrifice of peace offering" - Lev.7:37- " The LAW of the burnt offering" Law of leprosy disease (Lev.14:57), law of fluid discharge (lev.15:32) and it goes on and on, never was it mentioned anywhere of the LAW of TITHE/TITHEING as the case may be, rather the very first place you'll come across the word TITHE as regarding the Israelites exodus from Egypt was in Lev.27, reading from verse 1 it goes on like this -1. And the Lord said,. . . vs. 30: it stated TITHE and on it goes. Even this passage began by telling them how they should give/ administer tithe and not a fresh teaching about tithing. Let me Quote it Lev 27:30-32 30 And all the tithe of the land, whether of the seed of the land or of the fruit of the tree, is the Lord's; it is holy to the Lord. [1 Cor 9:11; Gal 6:6.] 31 And if a man wants to redeem any of his tithes, he shall add a fifth to it. 32 And the entire tithe of the herd or of the flock, whatever passes under the herdsman's staff [by means of which each tenth animal as it passes through a small door is selected and marked], the tenth shall be holy to the Lord (AMP) Secondly if we can go through the Hebrew translations, one will discover that the tithe the nation of Israel practiced as at this time had the original tithe put (ma’aser) as a prefix or suffix. Meaning the tithe in Moses’ time followed the order of the original ancient tithe hence I call it an administrative tithing and not the origin of tithing per se. Dont mind Kunle my brother, he will do everything in his power to ensure he spreads his fallasy about anti-tithing, i know him too well. |
| Re: Should We Stop Giving Tithe? by KunleOshob(m): 12:44pm On Dec 17, 2009 |
It is really very manipulative to justify the type of heretical/ unbiblical version of compulsary mordern day tithing being preached in our penterascal churches with Abraham's one off voluntary tithes from war booty. They are two entirely seperate and unrelated issues. If that were the case then based on Abraham's example we should only tithe when we win a war or at best get a wind fall and not from our income as it is not on record that Abraham ever tithed from his income or his personal assets and the bible records him to be a very wealthy man. Our criminally motivated preachers preach tithing from malachi based on the obsolete and defunct Jewish laws which were never directed at christians. And that is why they preach it as compulsary. if you want to preach from abraham's one off example then you have to practise it as such not mixing the practise with the defunct one the jews practised. |
| Re: Should We Stop Giving Tithe? by Tonyet1(m): 12:49pm On Dec 17, 2009 |
@KunleOshod, what then happens to Paul's approach to tithe in 1corinthians 16? and to teach you again, the war spoils Abraham tithed from meant that he's had an increase, thus was expected to tithe. do you understand? |
| Re: Should We Stop Giving Tithe? by mavenbox: 1:10pm On Dec 17, 2009 |
Tonye and Biina, LOL, I dont think KunleOshob can be convinced otherwise. He is so certain of his views that he even made it his signature! |
| Re: Should We Stop Giving Tithe? by Zikkyy(m): 1:16pm On Dec 17, 2009 |
@Biina, tithing might be compulsory if you can trace your ancestry back to Israel. It is not compulsory for Christians. For Christians, emphasis is on free-will giving and not a compulsory rendering of a tenth. @Tonye-tithe, Paul’s approach in 1 Corinthians 16 does not equate to tithe. |
| Re: Should We Stop Giving Tithe? by Tonyet1(m): 1:21pm On Dec 17, 2009 |
@Zikky, who said that 1corinthians 16 doesnt equate to tithe, prove it! at least i have done mine and came up here, Zikkyy lets hear yours, and for more info. read this. And Zikky i am still waiting for you over that thread you know.never thought you to chicken out, so dont disappoint me! [U]Tithing - what did Jesus and Paul say?[/U] >>>Matthew. 23:23 - "Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You give a tenth of your spices — mint, dill and cummin. But you have neglected the more important matters of the law — justice, mercy and faithfulness. You should have practiced the latter, without neglecting the former.NIV Recall He(Jesus) didn’t say woe unto tithes, but rather woe unto the teachers of the law and Pharisees. Meaning Jesus criticized the Pharisees and never criticized tithe, because the tithe they gave was done hypocritically. Jesus said, practise mercy, practise justice, practise faith and also do not neglect to pracitise tithe (matt.23:23 -Hebrew-English paraphrased bible). Now some Christian sect believe this scriptures was actually Jesus’ seal against the practice of tithe. Looking critically does the scripture look like tithing was abolished? one should ask this question, if Jesus abolished tithing on the ground of the law, therefore mercy should be seem as a law as well as justice and faith and they all should be noted as abolished, afterall he spoke of these things in that scriptures as he did tithe (that is, as laws). Today Christians argue that Paul who is noted as the most significant apostle did not preach about tithe, now let us see. >>>1 Cor.16: 2 –Now concerning the collection for the saints, as I have given order to the churches of Galatia, even so do ye. 2 Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come.KJV In Hebrew, the term ‘collection’ as used in this passage is same as what Moses taxed the Israelite males above 20years old in the wilderness called the ma’aser terumah (which was the tithing based on contribution for the temple of God which Paul referred to as Jerusalem in his time) and it was given to help the temple building in the wilderness based on how God prospered each individual)–Ex.25:3-9. My candid appeal is for bible students to read the bible with more than a translation/ version so one could have a clearer understanding of terms in the biblos and how they connect the Old and New testaments together. Scholars even discovered that Titus was appointed the office of collecting this contribution even while Paul was in prison (2 Cor.8.). Now would it be wise to say that because KJV, NKJV, NIV and some contemporary anglos-saxons versions of the biblos never explicitly termed the word ‘collection’ as contribution tithe (Ma’aser terumah) meant Paul never practiced tithe same with his followers? I guess not. Maybe this verse will help >>>Daniel. 9:2 - . . .I Daniel understood by the books[biblos]” which means it took Daniel more than a book[biblo] to understand the sayings of God (prophesy) |
| Re: Should We Stop Giving Tithe? by KunleOshob(m): 1:22pm On Dec 17, 2009 |
Tonye-t:Now this is what i don't like about you, you tell toooo man lies in trying to force your delusions into scripture. Paul was not talking about tithes in 1 corinthians 16. So stop trying to force thrash in to scriptures. What Pual was talking about there was collections for Christians who were being persecuted in Jerusalem and definitely NOT tithes talkless of church offerings as is collected today. The money was collected for a specific purpoe and that was to help the needy amongst the christian brethen then, very much unlike our mordern day preachers who would hardly lift a finger to help any one. 1 Corinthians 16 : The Collection for Jerusalem 1 Now regarding your question about the money being collected for God’s people in Jerusalem. You should follow the same procedure I gave to the churches in Galatia. 2 On the first day of each week, you should each put aside a portion of the money you have earned. Don’t wait until I get there and then try to collect it all at once. 3 When I come, I will write letters of recommendation for the messengers you choose to deliver your gift to Jerusalem. 4 And if it seems appropriate for me to go along, they can travel with me |
| Re: Should We Stop Giving Tithe? by KunleOshob(m): 1:31pm On Dec 17, 2009 |
@tonye-t Aren't you tired of recyling this your matthew 23:23 over and over again, after all it has been thoroughly dis-creidtted by bible scholars here on NL. For the benefit of those who might be confused or led astray by Tonye-t's debauchry of the scriptures, in the conversation in matthew 23:23 Jesus was adrressing Pharisees who were under the law hence he said it was ok for them to give tithes even though it was a very minor part of the law. As we all know the law died with christ and we christians are not under the law. The law is not relevant to us except you want to be placed under it's curse[galatians 5:4]. That apart the tithe Jesus spoke anbout was that of mint and cumin[spices] and not money as money was not a tithable item under the jewish laws. |
| Re: Should We Stop Giving Tithe? by Zikkyy(m): 1:55pm On Dec 17, 2009 |
Tonye-t: @Tonye-tithe, KunleOshob has provided the appropriate response. Verse 3 refers to the collection as a gift. If you must twist the scriptures to suit your purpose, it shouldn't be so glaring. |
| Re: Should We Stop Giving Tithe? by ogajim(m): 2:26pm On Dec 17, 2009 |
Those who have no jobs ought to find one because distorting the Bible to make a few buck might not only be morally wrong but could also be punishable for 120 lashes or more on that great day when our Lord re-appears  I don't look at what others do or are doing, I look at what I can do and be at peace with myself and my God, to each his own. The soul that sinneth shall die is what we all should know and keep in mind. No need to go on about how some of these so called "Churches" from the outside to the inside has been dedicated to Lucifer and his lieutenants' worship even before they open their yack to ask for money! "He who have ears, let him hear" You serve God more with your Heart and Soul than you could ever do with money! His blood shed on the Cross is sufficient for me and my house.  |
| Re: Should We Stop Giving Tithe? by afiq(m): 2:42pm On Dec 17, 2009 |
Two men were shipwrecked near an island. When they landed ashore, one of them began screaming and yelling, “We’re going to die! We’re going to die! There’s no food! No water! We’re going to die!” The second man leaned calmly against a palm tree. When the first man saw how calm his friend was, he went crazy and shouted, “Don’t you understand?! We’re going to die!!”Undisturbed, the second man replied, “You don’t understand, I make $100,000 a week.” Dumbfounded, the first man looked at him and asked, “What difference does that make?!? We’re on an island with no food and no water! We’re going to DIE!!!” The second man answered, “You just don’t get it. I make $100,000 a week and I tithe ten percent on that $100,000 a week. Wherever I am, my pastor will be sure to find me!” ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Will your Pastor and that 10% saves u? |
| Re: Should We Stop Giving Tithe? by biina: 5:31pm On Dec 17, 2009 |
Zikkyy:Free-will v compulsory; an interesting point you have raised. Under what do you classify what God expects of you, compulsory or free will? Does it please God for me to hold on to all I earn, saying 'It is not enough for my needs in the first place, thus I cannot part with any of it'? or do you think it is irrelevant to God what I do with my income? |
| Re: Should We Stop Giving Tithe? by KunleOshob(m): 5:45pm On Dec 17, 2009 |
biina:I believe the scriptures below should answer your question, you can't possibly give anything to God and God has no need of anything from you. How ever as christians we are encouraged to give to the needy and secondly to give to support the gospel. but in reality we cannot give to God. I actually think it is highly insultive to the almighty for we puny mortals to be claimig we are give to God. Acts 17:24-25: 24 “He is the God who made the world and everything in it. Since he is Lord of heaven and earth, he doesn’t live in man-made temples, 25 and human hands can’t serve his needs—for he has no needs. He himself gives life and breath to everything, and he satisfies every need. |
| Re: Should We Stop Giving Tithe? by Zikkyy(m): 5:53pm On Dec 17, 2009 |
biina: We are talking about a mandatory 10% here. What you do with your earnings is a different thing. Its not a must that we render a fixed 10% of our earnings monthly. Its a matter of choice if you are convinced you need to. You will not be punished for not rendering that sum monthly. I believe KunleOshob response was adequate, but if you have more questions i will do my best to provide answers. |
| Re: Should We Stop Giving Tithe? by biina: 6:01pm On Dec 17, 2009 |
KunleOshob:This answers none of the questions, as I iidnt ask if God needed money. Zikkyy:This also does not answer the two questions I posed. |
| Re: Should We Stop Giving Tithe? by ogajim(m): 6:03pm On Dec 17, 2009 |
Some folks are convinced the need to serve ogun, others, sopono/ifa, etc. Just because you're convinced that a pastor deserves 10% of your earnings doesn't make it right but you do have a right to continue and pay the love-vendor a percentage of your earnings. God mandates us to love one another, love our neighbor as we love our selves, care for the widows/orphans/strangers among us and not to "outsource" it with 10% of our earnings. They tell you not to worry about how it is being spent, nonsense! By their fruits, we are beginning to know them for what they really represent. |
| Re: Should We Stop Giving Tithe? by Zikkyy(m): 8:55pm On Dec 17, 2009 |
I think we are missing things up here. I had tithe in mind when i made my first post. It will be difficult for me to answer your question if i have to relate it to tithe. But if you insist, biina: biina: God does not expect a compulsory tithe from you biina, its your choice. I want to believe your question is what to do with your earnings. What God expect from you is for you to show love to your neighbour. If this requires spending your total earnings (or a surplus portion you feel comfortable with) to meet the needs of your neighbor (usually to the best of your ability as you cannot meet all needs with your earnings), then you would have fulfilled that expectation. Christ commandment does not require you to set aside a fixed portion of your earnings on a monthly or periodic basis to fulfil this expectation. You are to decide that. |
| Re: Should We Stop Giving Tithe? by biina: 10:15pm On Dec 17, 2009 |
Zikkyy:Sorry for the mix up, but I wasn't asking that you relate it to tithing. Your answer above is ambivalent, as you made the association of compulsory or by choice, outside of the expectation. Is what God expect of us compulsory or open to free will? For example, God expects us to seek first his kingdom; is it then compulsory to seek the kingdom of God first? My position is that that which God expects of me is compulsory as a christian, but by choice as a human i.e. you can decide to not do what God expects of you, but then you are not a christian. I believe you have left out the most important one which is to love your God; and then love thine neighbor as thyself. This brings out a side point as to if all the laws can be summarized as two, then why give the Israelites ten commandments, along with the multitude of other laws and ordinances?Hint: They were human. A similar analysis can be made of the New Testament, as same was said in so many ways. Before there were laws on offerings, Cain and Abel made offerings unto God. Abel's was accepted and Cain's was not (wonder why?). Abraham without laws paid tithe, and Jacob without laws pledge a tenth, yet the Israelites were given laws to tithe. The laws were never the end, they were a means. If I follow your argument any fraction from 0-100% is acceptable? I personally have issues with a 0% lower bound. Lets us be clear that if you pay your tithe because the pastor says so, or because you are expecting multiple returns, then you are doing it for the wrong reasons. It would be like seeking the kingdom of God because you expect everything else to be given unto you. God accused the people of robbing him, and it wasn't because the levites were starving. |
| Re: Should We Stop Giving Tithe? by Zikkyy(m): 9:08am On Dec 18, 2009 |
biina: Since we are no longer considering the issue of tithing here, i would agree with your position above. I was begining to think you consider tithing as what God expect of every christian. My apologies. biina: I dont understand. biina: Now i am confused. I want to believe we are no longer talking about expectations here. biina: I agree. biina: What are you saying? we are robbing God if we dont render our tithe? |
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