omi tutu:

I guess the fault lies with the conflation of Keynes and Keynesianism rather than the validity of his theory.

On the other hand, I find it hard to imagine Hayek is lying still in his grave at the moment.

Ultimately, the fault may lie with the art of "labelling", attempts to fit nondescript theories and theoreticians into neat and distinct schools of thought. You mentioned Bernanke, Bernanke is no Keynesian but his most cited piece of work was on the Great Depression and in it, he fingered the lack of Govt intervention to save financial institutions as one of the prime causes of the meltdown.

Why do I think Keynes was discredited? Firstly, if your prefered state of affairs, stronger emphasis on the role of the state in adjusting the levers of the economy, is relegated to be adopted only in emergency times, that is as compelling a repudiation as you will find. Like I noted, most ''free market'' economists, whether Larry Summers or Ben Bernanke, allow for such emergency measures in extra-ordinary times.   

The nadir for old fashioned Keynesianism was the stagflation of the 70s - recession coupled with rampaging inflation -something which Keynesianism seemingly couldn't account for nor had the tools to combat. 

Sure, Hayek won't be sleeping easy but the true verdict is not so much the resort to these measures but will be their success or failure.

How can the US financial crisis lead to an increase in demand for the dollar?  I am confused.

Seun:

How can the US financial crisis lead to an increase in demand for the dollar?  I am confused.

Because the crisis has gone global, many people in a global crisis rush to the developed markets, of which the US is the most prominent. Witness the strenghtening of the dollar.

Because the crisis has gone global, many people in a global crisis rush to the developed markets, of which the US is the most prominent. Witness the strenghtening of the dollar.

But that is very stupid of them. I don't think people with access to lots of capital can be that stupid.

My guess is that governors have started looting again, and converting the looted billions into dollars.

Seun:

But that is very stupid of them. I don't think people with access to lots of capital can be that stupid.

My guess is that governors have started looting again, and converting the looted billions into dollars.

Why is it neccesarily stupid of them? It's not Nigerian Governors that have overseen the recent strenghtening of the dollar - I wish we were that influential - but it's part of a general trend.

Do you think it's wiser to trust in the Naira than the dollar?

4 Play:



Why do I think Keynes was discredited? Firstly, if your prefered state of affairs, stronger emphasis on the role of the state in adjusting the levers of the economy, is relegated to be adopted only in emergency times, that is as compelling a repudiation as you will find. Like I noted, most ''free market'' economists, whether Larry Summers or Ben Bernanke, allow for such emergency measures in extra-ordinary times.   

That is a misconception. . . . . Keynes never said the the state should have a permanent presence in the economy.
He clearly stated that his aim was not to stifle the creativity of free enterprise. No.

His target was the laissez-faire economics which advocated doing nothing, that the market would right itself
in the long run, while it sorts out the chinks in the short run.

His refrain,''In the long run we are all dead''.

The so-called Keynesianism of the mid twentieth century took short term bursts of state activity that
Keynes advocated and turned it into a permanent feature, a prelude to the economic troubles of
the 70's

Do you think it's wiser to trust in the Naira than the dollar?

If the US economy is on the verge of collapsing, then I would trust neither since the naira depends on our petrodollars. I would definitely not convert my naira into dollars.

Charlesmud:

OK that is from your point of view thinking Nigeria is growing but am sure you didnt check the Global market 2007/2008 and also didnt see the way Nigeria is making so much exports with no sign of development or improvement in Nigeria's economy. Nigeria now wants to join a union (WAMZ) to start up with the same currency (ECO) zone by december 2009 all due to be able to stabilies the economy (This single currency idea has already being done in Europe since 1995, I think).
Europe has being the most successful and stable region and continent in the world, U also know everybody follows their idea, they don't fight for fast growth like America or China but mentain a constant way of development (brilliant system). As you also see everybody uses Europe forms of idea which is the best so far since 15th century.



You said both the European and America have being the crash of the present economical problem, But why don't you talk from the wonderful things and inventions they have done through-out the world. They have created economy, created things that makes the world now, they made you know english and u can see its very easy for everybody to communicate easily and good. So far they have done us more good than harm so you should appreciate that and stop saying the little errors they cursed (since 1960 what has Nigerian leaders done for u ?), If not the European, would we know what crude oil is or whats its for? after all we have being in Africa (Nigeria) since 10th century or even more


My friend, This is not racist at all cus in-fact I am a pure and full member of fight against racism here in Europe and I don't take bulshits from any white bastards. I just want you to understand somethings and not mix them up due to your dislikes or hatred to the Europeans and Americans cus they have done us more good than harm which is so clear, Yes they say bulshits on the media ok, why can't Africa create or form something or is anybody stopping them? Even AIT in Nigeria is not doing anything positive in Nigeria let alone in Africa, Its a free world. U can tell Nigeria can't survive alone without them but they survive and created things without Africa or can't you SEEEEEEEEEEEEEE? Why can't Africa create or atleast Nigeria to do something, so far you can see how our politicians are messing-up in the government. (that shows what ?) hahaha

Their is nothing special to expect than for Africans to be better and that wont be our generation, Yes Nigerians are extra-ordinarily good and I know and admit that. So why are Nigerians not promoting their own cus it is even the same white white you hate that his helping them grow and making their talent known.

I love Nigeria and am in support 100% but we should also say and admit the truth that we have gain from this so called white people and they have helped us in so many ways (If not them how will Nigeria be rich with the oil), I am proud and always will be a Nigerian. (Black)

You have injected race into what has all along been an intellectual discussion and I will not be part of it. I really don't know where I stated that I don't like or hate Americans and Europeans, but please speak for yourself and leave me out of your race based assumptions and assertions.
The assertions I made are verifiable facts that you can look up.
You are free to live in a servant master mind set. You are free to believe that English language should be adored, but for your information I speak and write other languages. But try telling the Chinese that English is the best thing since sliced bread and see what they say.

fyi: In the US, the fastest growing language is not English. It is Spanish, Mandarin Chinese and English a distant third.
Considering that you have deviated from the original topic and delved into race baiting, I would rather not discuss your "points", but speak for youself about not liking Americans or Europeans.
revmallam

RevMallam:

You have injected race into what has all along been an intellectual discussion and I will not be part of it. I really don't know where I stated that I don't like or hate Americans and Europeans, but please speak for yourself and leave me out of your race based assumptions and assertions.
The assertions I made are verifiable facts that you can look up.
You are free to live in a servant master mind set. You are free to believe that English language should be adored, but for your information I speak and write other languages. But try telling the Chinese that English is the best thing since sliced bread and see what they say.

fyi: In the US, the fastest growing language is not English. It is Spanish, Mandarin Chinese and English a distant third.
Considering that you have deviated from the original topic and delved into race baiting, I would rather not discuss your "points", but speak for youself about not liking Americans or Europeans.
revmallam

OK am sorry if I mis-understood, But I clearly remember you saying they are the crash to the Economic problem but u didnt view from the point of the 80% good things they did in the world But you are blaming them for just this present situation. Why didnt Nigeria make any contribution in the economic growth or find a better solution for the world? (person wey never even chop beleful)

As am saying again am sorry if you mis-understood me and their is nothing like part of my race whatever, I am 100% black and will always represent Naija 4 life, I am just trying to make my point clear and the reasons for it which is so obviouse in many ways. What ever those countries you mentioned speaks they use ENGLISH as their second language (not yoruba or igbo) for public view and all documents always have a copy of English translation YES OR NO ?

I gbadun your words and I like the fact you stood strong to your believe, thats good and keep it up, I hope all comes good for Nigeria. You can check all my previous posts and you will understand me better that I wish and want a better way out for Nigeria's current situation. No vex for me ooo, I dey ur side  , So lets talk on the main issue and the solution for Nigeria.

Seun:

If the US economy is on the verge of collapsing, then I would trust neither since the naira depends on our petrodollars. I would definitely not convert my naira into dollars.

Well. . . . .hard luck

Except you want to denominate ur assets in kaduna cowries, you will have
to put your money somewhere.

Well. . . . .hard luck

Except you want to denominate ur assets in kaduna cowries, you will have
to put your money somewhere.

My point is, if both the naira and the dollar are going down, then there's no point converting one to the other. Hence no capital flight. Unless US-based investors are selling off their investments and going back home.

Dont count america out Yet!, USA is still the greatest country on earth. This is similiar to what happened during the great depression in the 1930s. If America coughs the world catches cold, in 1930 the German economy was badly hit by the great depression in America, and that was wht brought the emergence of Hitler cos' Germans wanted a stronger leader to take them from grass to grace. Just learnt in church today that a farm in Wiscosin has started using cow/pig dunk to generate electricity and Natural gas via fermentation in industrial scale. The down turn in the US economy is usually what bring out the best in America, New inventions will start springing up to solve their problem which will in turn will create more billionaires. The BIG 3 are bracing up for bio-vehicles which will completely eradicate U.S dependence on foreign oil, besides if all goes well in congress america will start drill their massive reserve which is said to be larger than the reserves of the saudis. But for an oil dependent economy like ours we shall be worst hit!, who's mentioning Nigeria among emerging developing nation?, a country still struggling to secure electricity for a quater of its population is not yet prepared to run the race to the future, its sad, but the truth. With the capital market collapsing in Nigeria, the Naira also collapsing. This is the time for Ya'radull to call for painful sacrifices from his political gangs. their total take home package should be slashed to 50% for 2yrs, after all when the going was good they enjoyed the benefit while the masses sitdon look! Even Mauritania did same last year, from the head of govt to national assembly down to political appointees opt for 50% take home pay rather than see a total collapse. This has exposed Soludo when international firms were repatrating their funds why didnt he devalue the naira then?, least that would have made it more expensive for them to secure dollars, and probably given them a second thoght cos no investor like to loose a dime, they would have lost some money to Nigeria in the repatration process via weaker naira trading against the dollar, or did he forget simple economic principles. Instead they were deceiving Nigerians that the fundamentals of our economy was strong and that the stock market had a shock absorber against the global economy crunch. How can the fundamentals of our economy be strong when the people of the land are not empowered with basic infastructure with which to steer the economy.

Tha_dude:

This has exposed Soludo when international firms were repatrating their funds why didnt he devalue the naira then?,

Soludo is not the problem bro.
Since he came in all the macro-economic decisions he took have been vindicated.
However you and i know that his decisions have to be ratified by the mallams (Yar'adua & the katsina mafia) who unfortunately have no friggin idea what they're doing up there.

wasnt it Soludo that tried to reorganise the Naira like 18 months ago, this was at a time when we could afford it. However Mr Shamsudeen who has never hidden his desire to occupy CBN governorship position scuttled that strictly on northern solidarity with Yar'adua.

the unfortunate part of the outlook for us is this, We (the common man) knows first hand what belt tightening is all about. However, the Pot-belly dudes at the NASS, Presidency, State capitals etc will keep increasing allocations to themselves.

they'll continue embarking on foreign trips with entourages that'll put the biggest cattle herds to shame.
Since the roads aint getting better, they'll demand more bullet-proof(yeah insecurity will be on the rise) SUV's.
Add to all that over-invoicing and other ills will keep rising.

Abacha who ran deficit budgets for years was not saddled with the size of government we have now & also the clique of 'choppers' was way smaller than what obtains.

Nigerians need to once again tap into that inner strength that pulls us through hellish condtions cos the road ahead is looking more efd up than usual.

God bless Nigeria

The world should be ready to wellcome the antichrist.
The world is confused .
Economic theories seem not to be  working
and suddenly the anti christ with his seemingly sweet policies will 
eventually come into power.Lets be wise and understand the hand writting on the wall.

me i dont know too much of Economics but a GURU in my own field

How can the US financial crisis lead to an increase in demand for the dollar? I am confused.

The US economy will rebound, which is what nations are banking on. Better to buy US treasuries and have the greatest nation on earth in perpetual debt and keep earning interest. Unfortunately, the US is massively over-leveraged and no one knows how much worthless "assets" are being held by financial institutions. Plus the Fed is printing money like there is no tomorrow. At some point, people will realize the dollar is almost worthless and the dollar will probably suffer a mortal blow, unless someone can cook up a good sized war before then. The kind that will render China, India impotent for another decade or so.

ogbunigwe:

me i don't know too much of Economics but a GURU in my own field

and what field might that be?

ogbunigwe:

The world should be ready to wellcome the antichrist.
The world is confused .
Economic theories seem not to be working
and suddenly the anti christ with his seemingly sweet policies will
eventually come into power.Lets be wise and understand the hand writting on the wall.

me i don't know too much of Economics but a GURU in my own field

What the hell is wrong with all you Bible-Bashers? Do you have a clue what's called a global turmoil? The world's economy is being judged by the almighty dollar as a baseline. There's nothing like the bleeding antichrist and this is all man-made Economy.

Deal with it and never in your dream would America fall to what you guys want to see. Nigeria would always look up to them, this might seem sad but it's very true. If they fail to deal with Nigeria, how would we progress? They run things and most of Chinese economy is based on America's imports. Are you guys exposed to the globad news? Chinese economy fell by 60% after the slowdown in demand from America's toy makers.

Sorry but my friend, go read a proper book and stop believing you are a GURU in whatever crap field you are involved in.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm not an expert, but one thing for sure, is nothin is certain here, we could only hope it works. for eg a lot of european member state are considerin fundin massive estate development, in the hope of retain jobs and creating more and exist job in order to ignite the market

however in a suitation where therent much confidence and trust in the market, i think one need to worry

F1 just anounce that they are closin the F1 as they no lomger afford the luxury
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Liar Liar Liar Liar, set your arse on fire.

Where did you hear that? What part of the world are you? It's only Honda that is pulling out of Formula One, blaming the world economic crisis for plans to sell its team as the link says below.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/motorsport/formula_one/7766092.stm

How could you just sit behind your computer and typr gibberish in the hope of uttering something that makes sense?

To be honest your post is even unreadable so there's no point arguing with you. Bottom line is, if the American economy/European economy struggles, Nigeria would bear the brunt as well. It's just not possible for Nigeria to function as a state without the involvement of these guys (dispute that!).

Did you even know how the whole crises started? You need to listen to more news and get yourself updated rather than typing wrong things on Nairaland.

Re: Huge Capital Flight Hits Nigerian Economy
« #49 on: Today at 10:30:38 AM » 

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--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm not an expert, but one thing  for sure, is nothin is certain here, we could only hope it works. for eg  a lot of european member state are considerin fundin massive estate development, in the hope of retain jobs and creating more and exist job in order to ignite the market

however in a suitation where therent much confidence and trust in the market, i think one need to worry

F1 just anounce that they are closin the F1 as they no lomger afford the luxury
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Liar Liar Liar Liar, set your arse on fire.

Where did you hear that? What part of the world are you? It's only Honda that is pulling out of Formula One, blaming the world economic crisis for plans to sell its team as the link says below.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/motorsport/formula_one/7766092.stm

How could you just sit behind your computer and typr gibberish in the hope of uttering something that makes sense?

To be honest your post is even unreadable so there's no point arguing with you. Bottom line is, if the American economy/European economy struggles, Nigeria would bear the brunt as well. It's just not possible for Nigeria to function as a state without the involvement of these guys (dispute that!).

Did you even know how the whole crises started? You need to listen to more news and get yourself updated rather than typing wrong things on Nairaland.

who are u tryin to impress with all that crap! _{another famous fool wanabe} chill-out and stay in that corner

boss

ease up there, maybe u misunderstood me, yes i did said honda pulling off! anyway thats what i meant to say! however what u dnt seemed to know is, there might just be more to follow.

i think we just have to wait and see. Accordin to some, stayin in and suriviving in premier league might just not be good enough,

so thanks no thanks!!


hope u can now read english! what, are a french speakin nigerian

Guys you dont need to copy and paste data, it could be boring at times

Am laughing at some of us who dont understsnd the real meaning of this whole confusion.An expert in Nigeria stock market has opend his mouth and said that the problem in the nigeria stock market has defered all theories of economics. what else are you saying?
Kingdoms and empires have risen and fallen:there is limit to theories of economics, there is greater than that controlling the activities in the world

Babylon -            NEBUCHADNEEZAR
MEDES/persians- DARIUS/CYRUS
GREECE-              ALEXANDAR THE GREAT
ROMAN-                CEASAR
etc

What is America?The whole world should be ready for real economic crises.
Friends, Prophecies are being fulfilled. I am not a pastor though.

@ All; This has been an intellectual discourse can we endeavour to keep it @ that; My own position is that nigeria cannot be immuned to the happenings around the world; so there's need for those who are at the helm of affairs to work towards leading us through; but how can this be when appointments are not based on capability i.e not getting the best minds to do the job. which is the problem bad leadership.

Capital flight in Nigeria?
In December?
No.
This is the norm every end of year
It is more noticeable this year because of the global crisis

Governors, Civil Servants, Koras and Indians are sending stolen money abroad.
The ministries are hiding all the monies not spent during the year abroad.

More Nigerians are now buying expensive houses all over the world from looted Nigerian funds
The stock market was one of the ways these thieves hide money.
Unfortunately, the stock market has also crashed.

I am not an expert, but these are my observations

we can continue to google and pontificate on this subject matter, but the state of the world's economy has defiled all laws of economics. I bet even Adam Smith cannot explain this one.

The best thing that can happen is for the situation not to last for long.

That said, I like to acknowledge some great and sensible analysis posted by some people. 

But I thought the fundamentals of our economy was strong? Why then is the naira crashing at an alarming rate?

Waow!!!, Alleluia !!!
Crashing oil prices !!
Crashing Naira !!
Capital flying away !!!(so they have wings , LOL!!!)
Economic choas !!!

Waow !! i think God is already answering my prayers :
see :https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-198654.96.html (#101)

the show will soon be over and the sorry thing called nigeria will be no more, and then . . .

it is obvious that nigeria economy is doomed along with us, uk and other world top economy.but i believe the present leadership of this country is not competent enough to save our economy from the iminent collapse due to overdependence on oil. lets us join hands together to pay for this sick economy to come forth otherwise nigeria version of global financial crises will lead to war.
www.dreamjobsinternational. dot com

na waooo

@ ikeyman00
-----------------------------------------------------------
who are u tryin to impress with all that crap! another famous fool wanabe chill-out and stay in that corner

boss

ease up there, maybe u misunderstood me, yes i did said honda pulling off! anyway thats what i meant to say! however what u dnt seemed to know is, there might just be more to follow.

i think we just have to wait and see. Accordin to some, stayin in and suriviving in premier league might just not be good enough,

so thanks no thanks!!


hope u can now read english! what, are a french speakin nigerian
-------------------------------------------------------------

You surely are the idiot on this thread and the supposedly want to-be as typed in your response above saying you're a GURU in your own crappy useless field comparing the glabal financial doom to whatever relationship happened in your village and trying to lie about what was not reported in the news. I don't give 2 fukks about what you wanted to type the main fact remains you wrote the incorrect information on a thread meant for the well-informed as supposed to an ignorant ill-informed psycho like you.

What has the the Premier League got to do with the financial crisis?

And if my response is not good enough for you, Boy, please GO HUG A TREE; DUMB FUKK

I strongly believe the downturn in the business cycle of the western world is responsible for the huge capital flight which is currently ravaging the Nigerian economy.Forget about the dummy prof Soludo sold to the national assembly, its all aimed at boosting consumer and investors confidence which is on a steep decline in the country.
     However,a country like NIgeria with  reasonable foreign reserves can cushion or reduce the vulnerability of its economy to this external shock.This could be acheived via  measured application of necessary macroeconomic policies coupled with massive investment in the critical sectors of the economy.Sadly,the present government is so bereft of ideas,hence,Nigerians can only watch helplessly as their economy continues to shrink day by day with srious consequences on the standard of living of the people.
, i weep for Nigeria coz a a a lame duck is the president.

But you should all know by now that Nigeria and some west African countries like Ghana are starting up a single currency called ECO by next year ( december 2009 ) to be able to stabilies the economy. The currency should be a bit higher than Euro but they are not sure yet due to some poor countries like Liberia and Sierria Leone, But for sure it will be higher than US Dollars.

So which the Support of Soludo, it should come true by next year b4 Soludo go start is new appointment in the world bank.

big boss

Posted on: Today at 01:12:56 PMPosted by: B.O.S.S.
Insert Quote
@ ikeyman00
-----------------------------------------------------------
who are u tryin to impress with all that crap! another famous fool wanabe chill-out and stay in that corner

boss

ease up there, maybe u misunderstood me, yes i did said honda pulling off! anyway thats what i meant to say! however what u dnt seemed to know is, there might just be more to follow.

i think we just have to wait and see. Accordin to some, stayin in and suriviving in premier league might just not be good enough,

so thanks no thanks!!


hope u can now read english! what, are a french speakin nigerian
-------------------------------------------------------------

You surely are the idiot on this thread and the supposedly want to-be as typed in your response above saying you're a GURU in your own crappy useless field comparing the glabal financial doom to whatever relationship happened in your village and trying to lie about what was not reported in the news. I don't give 2 fukks about what you wanted to type the main fact remains you wrote the incorrect information on a thread meant for the well-informed as supposed to an ignorant ill-informed psycho like you.

What has the the Premier League got to do with the financial crisis?

And if my response is not good enough for you, Boy, please GO HUG A TREE; DUMB FUKK

english? sorry i dnt understand nawooo

nawooo these bastards i dnt even know don de see me as a target to fame in nairaland

_{ur brain is f ucked up!}