First i want to say that i commend and admire your boldness in saying what you believe and speaking against what you hate.You have done this not minding being labelled a heretic, an apostate, a condemned soul, a troubled soul, an atheist wannabe and some many other names that some folks have described you with.

Well i am a close observer of many of your posts and comments in nairaland because just like you, i also have issues with the present Nigeria churches when it comes to some of the burdens that the MOGs have placed on their member. I have always believed in the words of Christ when He said "whosoever the son sets free is free indeed". So i share in some of your burdens and anger against the present Nigeria and indeed the worlds church systems.

But in recent weeks i have been left dumfounded by some of your posts, stating your believe on hell fire and eternal condemnation, the virgin birth and the authenticity of the word of the word of God as recorded in the bible.

First let me start my questions from the your belief on hell fire.You sincerely believe that hell is a fabricated concept that was smuggled to keep some people in check. well my question is,if there no hell and eternal condemnation, what punishment should be melted out to those who sin and continually sin against God? what is the reward for the iniquity of those who died as enemies of the true GOD?
If the virgin birth is wrong, who is the biological father of Christ ? How can a lie be accepted as truth by billions of people for over 2 thousand years? why do you think GOD himself have not intervened to stop the further spread of these lies? Does He enjoy seeing his people being deceived?

If the major part of the bible is fabricated, what then should somebody believe in? where is the truth found? Is it in those other books that you have been reading?

finally you seem very critical of the present church system but in all your criticisms, you are yet to proffer solutions. what is the solution to the "rot" yous see in the church system? you said that you are not a christian, then i want to ask that if you are not a christian then what are you? why not leave the christians to do their things and continue with what you believe?

He is an agent of darkness zealously seeking e-disciples.

He is on chrismas holiday now.

https://www.nairaland.com/2045070/thoughts-questions-religion/2#28909490

sinequanon:
Even people who call themselves atheists still find themselves appealing to theists. Many do it under the guise of educating the theists. But I believe it is actually doubt and denial of doubt that is causing them to seek a pretext for validation from the theists.

Leaving religion leaves a vacuum for most people. Some take refuge in materialism and science, but they are still in a transition phase, which is quite fragile.

sinequanon:
Talking about a "Sky- daddy" etc. has nothing to do with you avoiding "the glare and stare" of Christians [this was the excuse given for the thread]. It is more likely to attract more animosity from Christians. Like most atheists (even if you do not mean to imply your are one, yourself), you seem to be in denial. Psychologically, what you are really doing is talking aloud to yourself as part of your therapy during your transition from Christianity, and you are trying to test your resilience against what Christians can throw at you, by debating the bible and rationalizing it in your new faith of science.

The denial I am talking about, is not denial of god, but denial of your residual attachment to your old faith. Fighting over the bible is your attempt to establish a sense of authority in your new perspective. Most people who leave their religion go through such a phase, and it may take several years.

sinequanon:
It is on topic. I am only explaining the source of your ranting to you -- you still need to "test yourself" against your bible.

Your explanation that you are seeking space and less animosity does not ring true, imo.

I don't think that challenging your bible and talking about a sky daddy is about fulfilling your excuse of "more space". It is about going through a process of detachment. I have no particular issue with it. I just remark about it.

The poster in question became enraged by my posts, but the pattern of behaviour is familiar. People don't just wake up one morning and drop their religion. They enter into a tug-of-war with their own fears and doubt, the same fears and doubts that they previously used to try to entrap other people in their religion. They find themselves having to exorcise all their bad fear-based ideas and hypocrisy. The worse it was, the harder it is to exorcise. It usually results in an anti-religious backlash, ranting and jumping to another religion (like atheism, materialism or some other theist belief).

Lol at asking sincere questions. The fellow is a frustrated soul who wanted to have the preeminence but wasn't given the opportunity. I pray he is saved some day.

Thanks guys for your criticisms so far but i still wanna hear from Frosbel. Frosbel where are you? Come to the defence of what you believe.

You maybe right in whatever you say about frosbel but i am convinced he is not completely wrong even though i have come to question some of the things he believe in recent time. How can anyone publicly say that the bible is fabricated and still claim to know God(thats my problem with him). Frosbel i believe may find an answer to whatever he is looking for somehow.

sinequanon:
https://www.nairaland.com/2045070/thoughts-questions-religion/2#28909490







The poster in question became enraged by my posts, but the pattern of behaviour is familiar. People don't just wake up one morning and drop their religion. They enter into a tug-of-war with their own fears and doubt, the same fears and doubts that they previously used to try to entrap other people in their religion. They find themselves having to exorcise all their bad fear-based ideas and hypocrisy. The worse it was, the harder it is to exorcise. It usually results in an anti-religious backlash, ranting and jumping to another religion (like atheism, materialism or some other theist belief).

lastmessenger:
Thanks guys for your criticisms so far but i still wanna hear from Frosbel. Frosbel where are you? Come to the defence of what you believe.

I'm here waiting with you but I'll say he doesn't believe in anything. He is just a rebel against everything at convenience.

It's easy to de-convert as a Christian in Nigeria, here is what you need to do ;

1. Watch the hypocrisy and wickedness of their leaders most of whom are thieves , robbers and conmen.
2. Examine very carefully the live of the members with the word of God. The members live like the devil and claim Christ, who are they deceiving , lol.
3. Thoroughly research all their so called bible doctrines which are mostly Pagan.
4. If you don't leave after getting feedback from all these points, you are either brainwashed, part of the problem or making a profit out of it.


One key thing to have is boldness, because as soon as you turn your back on their madness they will chase you in packs like rabid dogs to tear you to pieces and further reinforce your decision to depart in the first place.

I can say thank you God for delivering me from this mother of all confusion called Nigerian Christianity.

lastmessenger:
You maybe right in whatever you say about frosbel but i am convinced he is not completely wrong.

I didn't say he is wrong. I am just saying that he is in transition. There is nothing wrong being in transition.

sinequanon:


I didn't say he is wrong. I am just saying that he is in transition. There is nothing wrong being in transition.

Transition to atheism or deism?

frosbel:
It's easy to de-convert as a Christian in Nigeria, here is what you need to do ;

1. Watch the hypocrisy and wickedness of their leaders most of whom are thieves , robbers and conmen.
2. Examine very carefully the live of the members with the word of God. The members live like the devil and claim Christ, who are they deceiving , lol.
3. Thoroughly research all their so called bible doctrines which are mostly Pagan.
4. If you don't leave after getting feedback from all these points, you are either brainwashed, part of the problem or making a profit out of it.


One key thing to have is boldness, because as soon as you turn your back on their madness they will chase you in packs like rabid dogs to tear you to pieces and further reinforce your decision to depart in the first place.

I can say thank you God for delivering me from this mother of all confusion called Nigerian Christianity.

i know many are not doing the right thing? many steal by asking people to pay them money as tithes and first fruits but frosbel my questions are still there unanswered.please do justice to the questions or tell me you wont.

lastmessenger:

Transition to atheism or deism?

Away from Christianity to....you tell me?

A real non-Christian has no need to question the bible...why would "god" do this, that or the other....why does this contradict with that...how did god do such and such...is god powerful enough to do x y z.

Once you are truly free from the religion, your questions will become unnecessary to you.

lastmessenger:



But in recent weeks i have been left dumfounded by some of your posts, stating your believe on hell fire and eternal condemnation, the virgin birth and the authenticity of the word of the word of God as recorded in the bible.

First let me start my questions from the your belief on hell fire.You sincerely believe that hell is a fabricated concept that was smuggled to keep some people in check. well my question is,if there no hell and eternal condemnation, what punishment should be melted out to those who sin and continually sin against God? what is the reward for the iniquity of those who died as enemies of the true GOD?
If the virgin birth is wrong, who is the biological father of Christ ? How can a lie be accepted as truth by billions of people for over 2 thousand years? why do you think GOD himself have not intervened to stop the further spread of these lies? Does He enjoy seeing his people being deceived?

If the major part of the bible is fabricated, what then should somebody believe in? where is the truth found? Is it in those other books that you have been reading?

finally you seem very critical of the present church system but in all your criticisms, you are yet to proffer solutions. what is the solution to the "rot" yous see in the church system? you said that you are not a christian, then i want to ask that if you are not a christian then what are you? why not leave the christians to do their things and continue with what you believe?

1. Frosbel is a lost soul seeking who he may devour. Only God can deliver him.

2. He is just battling with the fear of hell fire. In his foolishness he feels that denial will make hell fire non existent.

3. He doesnt believe in the virgin birth but believes in the resurrection of the dead on the last day (some died thousands of years ago). Doesnt that look stu.pid given that both events are beyond science/logic and are based on faith in the supreme power of God to do?. Someone had asked him; how did God create the first man if He cannot effect the virgin birth? but because his lost soul has been swallowed up by deceit he wont see reasons with the points raised.

frosbel:
It's easy to de-convert as a Christian in Nigeria, here is what you need to do ;

1. Watch the hypocrisy and wickedness of their leaders most of whom are thieves , robbers and conmen.
2. Examine very carefully the live of the members with the word of God. The members live like the devil and claim Christ, who are they deceiving , lol.
3. Thoroughly research all their so called bible doctrines which are mostly Pagan.
4. If you don't leave after getting feedback from all these points, you are either brainwashed, part of the problem or making a profit out of it.


One key thing to have is boldness, because as soon as you turn your back on their madness they will chase you in packs like rabid dogs to tear you to pieces and further reinforce your decision to depart in the first place.

I can say thank you God for delivering me from this mother of all confusion called Nigerian Christianity.

How's london christianity abi where you dey again sef? I thought it was london christianity that you were in nah.

am getting your gist

sinequanon:


Away from Christianity to....you tell me?

A real non-Christian has no need to question the bible...why would "god" do this, that or the other....why does this contradict with that...how did god do such and such...is god powerful enough to do x y z.

Once you are truly free from the religion, your questions will become unnecessary to you.

look every christian who thinks deep no matter how holy he or she may be will somehow have problems with concept of eternal damnation and hell fiire. I personally have my problem with the concept and i do sincerely hope that it is not what we think it is meanwhile i toally depend on God mercy to deliver from his judgement for it is a terrible thing to fall into the hand of the of the almighty.

honourhim:


1. Frosbel is a lost soul seeking who he may devour. Only God can deliver him.

2. He is just battling with the fear of hell fire. In his foolishness he feels that denial will make hell fire non existent.

3. He doesnt believe in the virgin birth but believes in the resurrection of the dead on the last day (some died thousands of years ago). Doesnt that look stu.pid given that both events are beyond science/logic and are based on faith in the supreme power of God to do?. Someone had asked him; how did God create the first man if He cannot effect the virgin birth? but because his lost soul has been swallowed up by deceit he wont see reasons with the points raised.

lastmessenger:
am getting your gist

You know that I am not a follower of any "god"?

I know that there are spirits. Some of them have control of people through various weaknesses, like fear, "greed", guilt etc. For me, that is all there is to most religions.

sinequanon:


I didn't say he is wrong. I am just saying that he is in transition. There is nothing wrong being in transition.

Everyone goes through a transition when they begin to question their beliefs. It is quite normal to have a mental tug of war between the rational and emotional, fear based sectors of a person's mind.
And yes, it also normal, even positive, to test one's new convictions in the public sphere.

sinequanon:


You know that I am not a follower of any "god"?

I know that there are spirits. Some of them have control of people through various weaknesses, like fear, "greed", guilt etc. For me, that is all there is to most religions.

Lol.
But you are not an atheist , just an unbeliever of god .
Just like an Anthropologist is not a scientist.

Lol.

Hmmm interesting to know that you only believe in spirits.

sinequanon:


You know that I am not a follower of any "god"?

I know that there are spirits. Some of them have control of people through various weaknesses, like fear, "greed", guilt etc. For me, that is all there is to most religions.

Atheist dont fail to amaze me with their ability to rationalize things. i just de laugh meanwhile it seems that i am failing in my aim to get some reasonable answers from Dear Frosbel.
Frosbel how can you claim to know all that you know and yet refuse to answer me. This is totally unfair and somehow you are beginning to behave like the people you condemn by knowing the truth and hiding it.

plaetton:

Everyone goes through a transition when they begin to question their beliefs. It is quite normal to have a mental tug of war between the rational and emotional, fear based sectors of a person's mind.
And yes, it also normal, even positive, to test one's new convictions in the public sphere.

lastmessenger:
Hmmm interesting to know that you only believe in [existence of] spirits.

First hand experience.

Familiarity with "spirit" without awe is what would lead to a lot less religion (including materialism and atheism).

I use quotes for "spirit" because that word is only an artificial boundary that materialists created to try to shut out what they cannot control.

It is only mystique that results in worship and religion (including materialism and atheism).

And religion (including materialism and atheism) preserves the mystique in a vicious circle.

lastmessenger:
look every christian who thinks deep no matter how holy he or she may be will somehow have problems with concept of eternal damnation and hell fiire. I personally have my problem with the concept and i do sincerely hope that it is not what we think it is meanwhile i toally depend on God mercy to deliver from his judgement for it is a terrible thing to fall into the hand of the of the almighty.

You know why i dont have problem with the eternal damnation concept? Because God made a way out. I dont worry myself with any problem that has solution. Once there is a solution, its no more a problem to worry about.

Here the solution is very very simple- grace/mercy of God. Just rely on it and you are free. Even the disciples of Jesus at a point felt it was impossible to make heaven but Jesus gave them a simple answer- "with men this is impossible but with God all things are possible". Matthew 19:26.

lastmessenger:
look every christian who thinks deep no matter how holy he or she may be will somehow have problems with concept of eternal damnation and hell fiire. I personally have my problem with the concept and i do sincerely hope that it is not what we think it is meanwhile i toally depend on God mercy to deliver from his judgement for it is a terrible thing to fall into the hand of the of the almighty.

The issue is that hell is not for the children of God so why should we have a problem with hell when it is not for us.

I am worried because even though God has made a way of escape but the chilling truth is that people will definitely go there and even God knows about that. How is wish there is no sin to commit and how i wish the earth was created to be like heaven so that we will not have to struugle against sin and iniquity.in all things i trust in the mercy of the most high and i do hope and wish that somehow those who died without Christ will be given a second chance just like christ preach to the spirits in the prison and presented the gospel to them. I sincerely do hate the idea of eternal damnation.

honourhim:


You know why i dont have problem with the eternal damnation concept? Because God made a way out. I dont worry myself with any problem that has solution. Once there is a solution, its no more a problem to worry about.

Here the solution is very very simple- grace/mercy of God. Just rely on it and you are free. Even the disciples of Jesus at a point felt it was impossible to make heaven but Jesus gave them a simple answer- "with men this is impossible but with God all things are possible". Matthew 19:26.

Yes i am very much aware of that but the picture of some guys suffering for eternity in a bottomless pit is horrible. I sincerely wish and hope that hell is not what we think it is.

Hiswordxray:

The issue is that hell is not for the children of God so why should we have a problem with hell when it is not for us.

lastmessenger:
You maybe right in whatever you say about frosbel but i am convinced he is not completely wrong even though i have come to question some of the things he believe in recent time. How can anyone publicly say that the bible is fabricated and still claim to know God(thats my problem with him). Frosbel i believe may find an answer to whatever he is looking for somehow.

Frosbel is only being sincere. The bible is indeed filled with fabrications and falsifications.

lastmessenger:
I am worried because even though God has made a way of escape but the chilling truth is that people will definitely go there and even God knows about that. How is wish there is no sin to commit and how i wish the earth was created to be like heaven so that we will not have to struugle against sin and iniquity.in all things i trust in the mercy of the most high and i do hope and wish that somehow those who died without Christ will be given a second chance just like christ preach to the spirits in the prison and presented the gospel to them. I sincerely do hate the idea of eternal damnation.

The first step to freedom from religious brainwashing and fanaticism is bravery. Trust me it is not for the faint hearted. If you had been going to church for eons like I was, you could lose long term relationships especially those of the church and even sometimes your own family. This goes to show you the stranglehold religion has on the lives of people.

Hell (as you may come to realise in the future ) , is a figment of the imagination of heartless control freaks who wanted converts , not for the mutual benefit of love and prosperity , but for the long term objective of stealing their resources, time and strength onto the 3rd and 4th generations, albeit in a covert fashion.

You have to listen to the other side of the story , something which the henchmen of religion will seriously try to discourage you from doing , because they know that once you find the truth and others also find the truth, their coffers will eventually become empty.

Hell does not exist, read this link by CHRISTIANS, thinking ones ;

http://www.hellhadesafterlife.com/hell

I believe, the more you open thread against this guy the more you evangelise is believe , let him be, it's a choice he made. There is one post someone made that really sadden me, he say ; ''if someone like frosbel beginning to question his belief,what will the ones with the little faith do ?'' You can't force him to change,all the atheists are behind him,when the unbelievers are in support of you, then you need to dust your garment and check your self again.

McSterling:
Frosbel is only being sincere. The bible is indeed filled with fabrications and falsifications.

are you a Muslim ? Well , I no blame you, nah frosbel I blame.

frosbel:


The first step to freedom from religious brainwashing and fanaticism is bravery. Trust me it is not for the faint hearted. If you had been going to church for eons like I was, you could lose long term relationships especially those of the church and even sometimes your own family. This goes to show you the stranglehold religion has on the lives of people.

Duh, you expect them to rally round you and cuddle up with you, are you from Mars? Human nature is that of withdrawal from birds of different feather. It's not a thing of religion, or brainwashing, or even right or wrong. Christians don't 'love' the world and vice versa. People naturally withdraw from others with divergent opinions, and are also influenced by peer pressure, it's not a matter of right or wrong or religion.