benalvino2:


Hahaha... look I am not claiming it is my work!!! Am not getting paid for it or getting academic points for it so I don't care providing any link.

The person am debating with have tried to make Jesus look similar and violent like Muhammad and he failed then he turned to Mary upon knowing Aisha was just six.

Mary was a teenager but her birth was a miracle... no one had sex with her. She shouldn't be brought into this debate

You are engaging in the habit of copying entire paragraphs from websites, verbatim, and posting them here without providing the proof of ownership, not even bothering to put the thing in quotation marks. In addition to that, you cleverly begin each paragraph with your own words, followed directly by a copy and paste section. That indicates to me that you are a dishonest person, who is trying to use direct quotations as an argument without acknowledging the owner of the quotes.

You could have easily rephrased the argument in your own words, or simply direct people to the argument by posting a link. Instead you're mixing in large copy and paste segments between a few of your own sentences. That's being dishonest.

benalvino2:
is it right for him to have sex with Aisha?
why does he have up to 50 wives?
answer this two questions first or you would want to say it never happened?

Look at your quote above, When you brought the case of Aisha into the discussion and you ask me to answer, I didn't, you did. I answered by proving a point that, this seems to be a norm during those era (this is the summary). Mary too gave birth at her early teen except you want to say God is wicked for giving her such a burden at that age. I needed to prove a point,

benalvino2:


Hahaha... look I am not claiming it is my work!!! Am not getting paid for it or getting academic points for it so I don't care providing any link.

The person am debating with have tried to make Jesus look similar and violent like Muhammad and he failed then he turned to Mary upon knowing Aisha was just six.

Mary was a teenager but her birth was a miracle... no one had sex with her. She shouldn't be brought into this debate

Mohammed and Jesus are the same, like it or not, because they serve one Allah, getting marry and giving birth at very young age is a norm during this era, If Mary was not chosen by God she would have had sex at the age of 10-12 and gave birth to a baby at the age of 13-14. While crucify Mohammed when this is the norm during that era.

Jesus never condemn the Law of marriage then and I believe His disciples must have married their wives around the same age. This is their tradition then.

We are in western age now, even if a 17 year old get pregnant at this age, it looks like an abomination. You are using this present age to judge what happen in the past

benalvino2:


Hahaha... look I am not claiming it is my work!!! Am not getting paid for it or getting academic points for it so I don't care providing any link.

The person am debating with have tried to make Jesus look similar and violent like Muhammad and he failed then he turned to Mary upon knowing Aisha was just six.

Mary was a teenager but her birth was a miracle... no one had sex with her. She shouldn't be brought into this debate

That is what I called GLOBAL ISLAMIC LOGIC. You accused mohammed of ordering violence, rape and murder while muslims defend him by citing Jewish battle against the amalekites. You accuse mohammed of pedophilia, the muslims will formulate the age of mary from nowhere, etc.

The battle in the old testament are fought by the Jews as a nation against their aggressive neighbours, mostly because of land issues (just as they are still fighting the modern arabs till date). The Jews did not fight to impose their religion against the infidels or to convert them, but muslims fight to conquer for alllah globally.

true2god:
That is what I called GLOBAL ISLAMIC LOGIC. You accused mohammed of ordering violence, rape and murder while muslims defend him by citing Jewish battle against the amalekites. You accuse mohammed of pedophilia, the muslims will formulate the age of mary from nowhere, etc.

The battle in the old testament are fought by the Jews as a nation against their aggressive neighbours, mostly because of land issues (just as they are still fighting the modern arabs till date). The Jews did not fight to impose their religion against the infidels or to convert them, but muslims fight to conquer for Alllah globally.

Interesting to know that you are separating yourself from the old testament because the Muslims can pick points from there to counter your attack but you will quote from old testament when it suite you saying "Deut ..:.. the lord says".

Please don't join those that doesn't read between the lines, the write up that I quote about the age of Mary are Christian discussion, the findings are from Catholic scholars, don't know where you guy that started this thread got his own from but he confirmed that Mary was a young teen as well. Please see link below again.
http://www.truthortradition.com/articles/mary-a-teenage-bride-and-mother

There are other sites as well but not ready to spoon feed you. If you follow this thread from the beginning, I told the guy that started this thread to look at Background story of any verse and avoid quoting out of context.

Please follow the thread from the begining

domack99:

Look at your quote above, When you brought the case of Aisha into the discussion and you ask me to answer, I didn't, you did. I answered by proving a point that, this seems to be a norm during those era (this is the summary). Mary too gave birth at her early teen except you want to say God is wicked for giving her such a burden at that age. I needed to prove a point,



Mohammed and Jesus are the same, like it or not, because they serve one Allah, getting marry and giving birth at very young age is a norm during this era, If Mary was not chosen by God she would have had sex at the age of 10-12 and gave birth to a baby at the age of 13-14. While crucify Mohammed when this is the norm during that era.

Jesus never condemn the Law of marriage then and I believe His disciples must have married their wives around the same age. This is their tradition then.

We are in western age now, even if a 17 year old get pregnant at this age, it looks like an abomination. You are using this present age to judge what happen in the past

Mohammad and Jesus are not the same... not even close.... if they are the same why did Qur'an ask Muslims to hate Christians?
[size=18pt]From those too, who call themselves Christians, We did take a covenant, but they forgot a good part of the Message that was sent to them: so We estranged them, with enmity and hatred between one and the other, to the Day of Judgment. And soon will Allah show them what they have done. 5:14

O you who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends and protectors: they are but friends and protectors to each other. And he among you that turns to them for friendship is of them. 5:51[/size]

That's just few... I serve God(YHWH) not Allah
Do you serve YHWH? What is the name of your god?

Mary was a teen and not a child like Aisha... teen is from 13 to 20... there is no if here...
I haven't even gotten to sex slaves Mohammad took which is same thing Isis and boko haram are doing.

domack99:


Interesting to know that you are separating yourself from the old testament because the Muslims can pick points from there to counter your attack but you will quote from old testament when it suite you saying "the lord says".

Please don't join those that doesn't read between the lines, the write up that I quote about the age of Mary are Christian discussion, the findings are from Catholic scholars, don't know where you guy that started this thread got his own from but he confirmed that Mary was a young teen as well. Please see link below again.
http://www.truthortradition.com/articles/mary-a-teenage-bride-and-mother

There are other sites as well but not ready to spoon feed you. If you follow this thread from the beginning, I told the guy that started this thread to look at Background story of any verse and avoid quoting out of context.

Please follow the thread from the begining

I have proven to you that we are living under Jesus covenant... the old testament laws don't apply to us and I also told you the old testament is full of violence from war to war but the difference is that no verse that commands people to go and kill infidels. When God command the destruction of a nation, he said who should do it and who to do it to... but Qur'an ask Muslims to kill the infidels
[size=18pt]Fight those who do not believe in Allah … until they pay the Jizya with willing submission and feel themselves subdued. 9:29[/size]

If it is same God why didn't Jesus or Moses all eat halal meat? Why didn't Christians eat halal?

That's why people are paying jizya to ISIS in iraq

Taqqiya in action. So what if Mary was 12 years.
The topic which all earlier writers have been quoted are all swaying Aisha was 6 when betrothed and 9 at consummation.
They that today and you will jailed for an awful long time.
Seems Allah did not know that years later sleeping with a nine year old would be a gross offense . And Allah is all knowing.

benalvino2:

Mohammad and Jesus are not the same... not even close.... if they are the same why did Qur'an ask Muslims to hate Christians?
From those too, who call themselves Christians, We did take a covenant, but they forgot a good part of the Message that was sent to them: so We estranged them, with enmity and hatred between one and the other, to the Day of Judgment. And soon will Allah show them what they have done. 5:14

Glory be to Allah, am not sure how relevant this is to drive you point but when you read this chapter from the beginning, the verse is given a warning to Muslim, reminding them of what happen to Christian when they disobey Allah command. See link to the entire Chapter below and read from the beginning, there are verses that will surely interest you
http://quran.com/5

benalvino2:
O you who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends and protectors: they are but friends and protectors to each other. And he among you that turns to them for friendship is of them. 5:51

The Tafsir (background story) is quite long, will post a link where this verse was discussed. But first lets quote verse 5 of the same chapter.

Quran 5:5 This day [all] good foods have been made lawful, and the food of those who were given the Scripture (Jew & Christians) is lawful for you and your food is lawful for them. And [lawful in marriage are] chaste women from among the believers and chaste women from among those who were given the Scripture (Jews & Christians) before you, when you have given them their due compensation, desiring chastity, not unlawful sexual intercourse or taking [secret] lovers. And whoever denies the faith - his work has become worthless, and he, in the Hereafter, will be among the losers.

So look at these verses, on the same chapter, what do you make of it, the question is who are this verses talking to which Jew and which Christian. The answers are provided in the link below, please read you have a lot to learn
http://www.answering-christianity.com/sami_zaatri/friends.htm

benalvino2:
That's just few... I serve God(YHWH) not Allah
Do you serve YHWH? What is the name of your god?

Glory to Almighty, am a Muslim and we believe in all His prophet which include Jesus, Moses, etc. We don't believe in Paul and all his letters in the new testament. We agree to some new testament (Matthew, Mark, Luke and john) except some apart like the Crucifixion, etc.

benalvino2:
Mary was a teen and not a child like Aisha... teen is from 13 to 20... there is no if here...
I haven't even gotten to sex slaves Mohammad took which is same thing Isis and boko haram are doing.

I dissociate myself from ISIS and Boko Haram just the way you dissociate yourself from Catholic Christian that they Worship Idols.

https://www.nairaland.com/2065160/catholic-church-members-slow-not

domack99:


Glory be to Allah, am not sure how relevant this is to drive you point but when you read this chapter from the beginning, the verse is given a warning to Muslim, reminding them of what happen to Christian when they disobey Allah command. See link to the entire Chapter below and read from the beginning, there are verses that will surely interest you
http://quran.com/5



The Tafsir (background story) is quite long, will post a link where this verse was discussed. But first lets quote verse 5 of the same chapter.

Quran 5:5 This day [all] good foods have been made lawful, and the food of those who were given the Scripture (Jew & Christians) is lawful for you and your food is lawful for them. And [lawful in marriage are] chaste women from among the believers and chaste women from among those who were given the Scripture (Jews & Christians) before you, when you have given them their due compensation, desiring chastity, not unlawful sexual intercourse or taking [secret] lovers. And whoever denies the faith - his work has become worthless, and he, in the Hereafter, will be among the losers.

So look at these verses, on the same chapter, what do you make of it, the question is who are this verses talking to which Jew and which Christian. The answers are provided in the link below, please read you have a lot to learn
http://www.answering-christianity.com/sami_zaatri/friends.htm



Glory to Almighty, am a Muslim and we believe in all His prophet which include Jesus, Moses, etc. We don't believe in Paul and all his letters in the new testament. We agree to some new testament (Matthew, Mark, Luke and john) except some apart like the Crucifixion, etc.



I dissociate myself from ISIS and Boko Haram just the way you dissociate yourself from Catholic Christian that they Worship Idols.

https://www.nairaland.com/2065160/catholic-church-members-slow-not

Christians cannot disobey Allah because they never worshipped Allah.

I quoted 5:51 and not 5:5 in Islam it is known that when two verses contract each other... the lather one supersede the earlier one.

If you believe in Jesus and other prophets how then can you deny he is the son of God!! How can you deny the ransom the death of Christ?

What Catholics do are against the bible teachings and against Jesus example... but ISIS backs up everything they do from the Qur'an that's the difference

benalvino2:


Christians cannot disobey Allah because they never worshipped Allah.

I quoted 5:51 and not 5:5 [/b]in Islam it is known that when two verses contract each other...[b] the lather one supersede the earlier one.

Again and again read between the lines, I brought in verse 5 to prove appoint, those verse never contradict each other if you understand the Tafsir, I thought I posted a link on the Quran 5:51. You should have read that before pressing the send button

benalvino2:
If you believe in Jesus and other prophets how then can you deny he is the son of God!! How can you deny the ransom the death of Christ?

What Catholics do are against the bible teachings and against Jesus example... but ISIS backs up everything they do from the Qur'an that's the difference

.

According to the last Chapter of the Quran, Allah dispute the saying that he has a son, chapter was release there were saying that Allah has a Son which is Jesus, because Jesus has no biological father, technically saying that God slept with her and impregnate her. Allah reveal the chapter (Iklas) to Mohammed (SAW) saying He has no son and He his capable of all thing. When He can turn water to blood which is not suppose to be, command the ocean to split for the people of Israelite which is not suppose to be, how much more putting a baby in a womb originally design to carry a baby. You guys under estimate the power of GOD.

Jesus was never crucify according to the Quran, these are some of the exception I mention in my reply earlier that we Muslim don't believe in

On the catholic issue, that's your on opinion, I don't mingle in other peoples religion and I will advice you to let them be. Attitude is the best way to bring people into your religion not insulting their believe.

basilico:
Taqqiya in action. So what if Mary was 12 years.
The topic which all earlier writers have been quoted are all swaying Aisha was 6 when betrothed and 9 at consummation.
They that today and you will jailed for an awful long time.
Seems Allah did not know that years later sleeping with a nine year old would be a gross offense . And Allah is all knowing.

So if Mary was 12, he got pregnant by 11 abi? And if Aisha was 9 and assume gave birth by 10? So what are you saying, God didn't know Mary was small as well or what.

So God to will be jail be that oooo, Sir, we are talking about event of thousands of years ago now today, of course we have civilization now.

domack99:


So if Mary was 12, he got pregnant by 11 abi? And if Aisha was 9 and assume gave birth by 10? So what are you saying, God didn't know Mary was small as well or what.

So God to will be jail be that oooo, Sir, we are talking about event of thousands of years ago now today, of course we have civilization now.

You have no clue Mary was 12... you will only try to do character assassination but you wont get there

I was out with my girl friend for new year let me reply you

HAPPY NEW YEAR, WISHING MORE OF JOY AND PROSPECT

benalvino2:


You have no clue Mary was 12... you will only try to do character assassination [/b]but you wont get there

Yes, you are right brother, I don't have clue Mary was 12 but you (I believe) and I quote Christian scholars who mentioned the [b]age range just the way Bukhari (Islamic Scholar) reported Aisha age, Remember neither Aisha age nor Mary age were mentioned in the Quran and Bible respectively.

You have been trying to assassinate the image of Islam, Catholic and others on all your thread on Nairaland, now you are thirsting a dose of your medicine and you don't like, avoid unnecessary persecution of people just because of their believes.
https://www.nairaland.com/2065160/catholic-church-members-slow-not
https://www.nairaland.com/2067183/atheists-stupidity
https://www.nairaland.com/2065712/another-fraudulent-prophecy-tb-joshua

The issue of Aisha age and Mary age was never a debate until recently when modernization and westernization has engulf our world. This are norm and tradition back then. We can't try it now anyway we will be heavily criticize.

benalvino2:


There is nothing for me to prove here... I have showed you everything and I understand it is hard for you to digest but it is true...

You may want to read this http://www.islamic-awareness.org/Polemics/aishah.html

Due to several reply of yours, I omitted this nice piece you post. If you avoid copy and paste and post the link I would have seen this earlier.
I agree to this article on Bukhari and Sahil Muslim report on Aisha age, I will quote some part of the link below, I hope you read to that part.

I will definitely share this in the Islamic section, this is what Muslim need to increase our faith on challenging thought like Aisha age. This article can only be beneficial if you read the whole thing and the link provided as well.

Some point to not quote from the article

[b]"According to Judaism, Christianity and Islam, right and wrong are ordained by Almighty God. As such, morality does not change over time based on our whims, desires or cultural sensitivities. In cultures where there is no Divinely revealed ruling on an issue, what is right and what is wrong is determined by cultural norms. In such cases, a person would only be considered "immoral" if they violated the accepted norms of their society. As we will demonstrate, the Prophet Muhammad's(P) marriage to cAishah, viewed both in the light of Absolute Morality and the cultural norms of his time, was not an immoral act, but was an act containing valuable lessons for generations to come. Additionally, this marriage followed the norms for all Semitic peoples, including those of Biblical times. Based on this, and other information that we will provide below, it is grossly hypocritical for Christians to criticise the Prophet's(P) marriage to cAishah at such a young age. In case Christian readers are under the false impression that their values today are timeless and somehow reflect those of Biblical times, please consider the following points which are directly related to the question of at what age a person is properly ready to be married:"[/b]

"Keeping in mind the ideas of "political correctness" and "absolute morality", in Biblical times the age at which a girl could marry was puberty. However, during the Middle Ages it was usually twelve years old. Now in most "Christian" countries it is between fourteen and sixteen years old. I live in country where some states allow partners of the same sex to legally marry, but consider an eighteen year old boy who sleeps with a sixteen year old girl a "statutory rapist". So even though Christians might disagree with much of what is becoming all too prevalent in Western society today - whether it be drug abuse, gay marriages or abortion - they too have been swallowed up (possibly unknowingly) by the ugly monster of "moral relativism" Certainly, they might be giving in less quickly than people who have no Divine basis for their morality, but they're giving in nonetheless."

"Society's ideas of love, family and marriage are much different in the so-called "modern" and "civilized" West of today than they were in Biblical or Qur'ânic times. Unfortunately, many of us carry the baggage of "romantic love" and ideas about sex that have managed to poison our minds since the Europeans (and their ideas) came to dominate the globe. These ideas have not only penetrated into the minds of Muslims, but actually permeate many of them. The European colonial powers have pulled out of almost all Muslim lands, but the colonization of the minds continues! As we mentioned above, the sad part is that most people do not even realize that they are under such un-Godly influences. Just to reference the way things have changed, a statement in The New Encyclopaedia Britannica makes it clear that values regarding the proper age of marriage have been changing over the years:"

"The other main allegations of moral defect in Muhammad are that he was treacherous and lustful . . . Sufficient has been said above about the interpretation of these events to show that the case against Muhammad is much weaker than is sometimes thought. The discussions of these allegations, however, raises a fundamental question. How are we to judge Muhammad? By the standards of his own time and country? Or by those of the most enlightened opinion in the West today? When the sources are closely scrutinized, it is clear that those of Muhammad's actions which are disapproved by the modern West were not the object of the moral criticism of his contemporaries."

Thanks bro, this piece actually increase my faith, will add it to my favorite.

Can you see why I said posting link is better than copy and paste

domack99:
HAPPY NEW YEAR, WISHING MORE OF JOY AND PROSPECT



Yes, you are right brother, I don't have clue Mary was 12 but you (I believe) and I quote Christian scholars who mentioned the age range just the way Bukhari (Islamic Scholar) reported Aisha age, Remember neither Aisha age nor Mary age were mentioned in the Quran and Bible respectively.

You have been trying to assassinate the image of Islam, Catholic and others on all your thread on Nairaland, now you are thirsting a dose of your medicine and you don't like, avoid unnecessary persecution of people just because of their believes.
https://www.nairaland.com/2065160/catholic-church-members-slow-not
https://www.nairaland.com/2067183/atheists-stupidity
https://www.nairaland.com/2065712/another-fraudulent-prophecy-tb-joshua

The issue of Aisha age and Mary age was never a debate until recently when modernization and westernization has engulf our world. This are norm and tradition back then. We can't try it now anyway we will be heavily criticize.

Happy new year to you

and like I said most scholars and historians said she was 15 or 16.

domack99:


Due to several reply of yours, I omitted this nice piece you post. If you avoid copy and paste and post the link I would have seen this earlier.
I agree to this article on Bukhari and Sahil Muslim report on Aisha age, I will quote some part of the link below, I hope you read to that part.

I will definitely share this in the Islamic section, this is what Muslim need to increase our faith on challenging thought like Aisha age. This article can only be beneficial if you read the whole thing and the link provided as well.

Some point to not quote from the article

[b]"According to Judaism, Christianity and Islam, right and wrong are ordained by Almighty God. As such, morality does not change over time based on our whims, desires or cultural sensitivities. In cultures where there is no Divinely revealed ruling on an issue, what is right and what is wrong is determined by cultural norms. In such cases, a person would only be considered "immoral" if they violated the accepted norms of their society. As we will demonstrate, the Prophet Muhammad's(P) marriage to cAishah, viewed both in the light of Absolute Morality and the cultural norms of his time, was not an immoral act, but was an act containing valuable lessons for generations to come. Additionally, this marriage followed the norms for all Semitic peoples, including those of Biblical times. Based on this, and other information that we will provide below, it is grossly hypocritical for Christians to criticise the Prophet's(P) marriage to cAishah at such a young age. In case Christian readers are under the false impression that their values today are timeless and somehow reflect those of Biblical times, please consider the following points which are directly related to the question of at what age a person is properly ready to be married:"[/b]

"Keeping in mind the ideas of "political correctness" and "absolute morality", in Biblical times the age at which a girl could marry was puberty. However, during the Middle Ages it was usually twelve years old. Now in most "Christian" countries it is between fourteen and sixteen years old. I live in country where some states allow partners of the same sex to legally marry, but consider an eighteen year old boy who sleeps with a sixteen year old girl a "statutory rapist". So even though Christians might disagree with much of what is becoming all too prevalent in Western society today - whether it be drug abuse, gay marriages or abortion - they too have been swallowed up (possibly unknowingly) by the ugly monster of "moral relativism" Certainly, they might be giving in less quickly than people who have no Divine basis for their morality, but they're giving in nonetheless."

"Society's ideas of love, family and marriage are much different in the so-called "modern" and "civilized" West of today than they were in Biblical or Qur'ânic times. Unfortunately, many of us carry the baggage of "romantic love" and ideas about sex that have managed to poison our minds since the Europeans (and their ideas) came to dominate the globe. These ideas have not only penetrated into the minds of Muslims, but actually permeate many of them. The European colonial powers have pulled out of almost all Muslim lands, but the colonization of the minds continues! As we mentioned above, the sad part is that most people do not even realize that they are under such un-Godly influences. Just to reference the way things have changed, a statement in The New Encyclopaedia Britannica makes it clear that values regarding the proper age of marriage have been changing over the years:"

"The other main allegations of moral defect in Muhammad are that he was treacherous and lustful . . . Sufficient has been said above about the interpretation of these events to show that the case against Muhammad is much weaker than is sometimes thought. The discussions of these allegations, however, raises a fundamental question. How are we to judge Muhammad? By the standards of his own time and country? Or by those of the most enlightened opinion in the West today? When the sources are closely scrutinized, it is clear that those of Muhammad's actions which are disapproved by the modern West were not the object of the moral criticism of his contemporaries."

Thanks bro, this piece actually increase my faith, will add it to my favorite.

Can you see why I said posting link is better than copy and paste

Good article... but we judge him by his action!!! Remember if you follow Jesus from his time till today you will be a peaceful person and if you follow Mohammad you will be a very intolerant person, that's what you see from various groups...
Remember the command to kill any who insult him or Islam? That's a problem today.

The thing is religion is a belief system, it is political ideology in some sense, it guides you how to live and quite frankly what you post has just back fired on you.

The post affirm he married her when she was a kid just what you have been trying to debunk...
He said 12 years old... so Mohammad cut it down to 6 which is out of the norms if you ask any one...
None of the case are weaker

benalvino2:


Happy new year to you

and like I said most scholars and historians said she was 15 or 16.

Good you said most not all, that happen then doesn't mean you can try it today, you will be jailed

domack99:


Good you said most not all, that happen then doesn't mean you can try it today, you will be jailed

None said she was twelve so your argument is mute...

benalvino2:


Good article... but we judge him by his action!!! Remember if you follow Jesus from his time till today you will be a peaceful person and if you follow Mohammad you will be a very intolerant person, that's what you see from various groups...
Remember the command to kill any who insult him or Islam? That's a problem today.

The thing is religion is a belief system, it is political ideology in some sense, it guides you how to live and quite frankly what you post has just back fired on you.

Too bad if you have never seen a devoted Muslim with a good character. Mohammed never preach violence, unfortunately you or people supplying you with the verse just go through the chapter to scavenge for violence world and post. For example you quoted Q5:14 just to assassinate the Image of Islam but if only you try to read the Chapter from verse one, you would have seen verses 4,5 and 6 and would have prompt you to ask a better question.

Muslim are not like you that dissociate themselves from some part of the bible saying one is old and we follow new one, all because their are words that you are not comfortable with. Gods word is expected to be thought provoking. I have said severally that those verse you quote has background story (quoting and posting link as well) not open ended as you call it.

You want to claim all the Christians are peaceful, have you forgotten the Spanish crusade against Muslims, creating offensive thread on social media assassinating the image of Catholic, Muslim etc is peaceful? Bros this is how Spanish crusade start, islam might be in the forefront of criticism today might be the turn of Christian tomorrow.

benalvino2:
The post affirm he married her when she was a kid just what you have been trying to debunk...
He said 12 years old... so Mohammad cut it down to 6 which is out of the norms if you ask any one...
None of the case are weaker

I have to go back to the article when I saw your reply, I couldn't see any where on the article where it mentioned 12 for Muslim world and Biblical time, it simply say Puberty, it graduated to 12 in middle ages and 14-16 now in some Christian world. I will quote and highlight again.

The truth is if the biblical time agreed with Puberty (9-12 Years), is it acceptable now?. If your answer is NO, then while judging Mohammed based on the norm of their time.

See the quote again didn't see where age 12 was mentioned for biblical time but Puberty

"Keeping in mind the ideas of "political correctness" and "absolute morality", in Biblical times the age at which a girl could marry was puberty. However, during the Middle Ages it was usually twelve years old. Now in most "Christian" countries it is between fourteen and sixteen years old. I live in country where some states allow partners of the same sex to legally marry, but consider an eighteen year old boy who sleeps with a sixteen year old girl a "statutory rapist". So even though Christians might disagree with much of what is becoming all too prevalent in Western society today - whether it be drug abuse, gay marriages or abortion - they too have been swallowed up (possibly unknowingly) by the ugly monster of "moral relativism" Certainly, they might be giving in less quickly than people who have no Divine basis for their morality, but they're giving in nonetheless."

domack99:


Too bad if you have never seen a devoted Muslim with a good character. Mohammed never preach violence, unfortunately you or people supplying you with the verse just go through the chapter to scavenge for violence world and post. For example you quoted Q5:14 just to assassinate the Image of Islam but if only you try to read the Chapter from verse one, you would have seen verses 4,5 and 6 and would have prompt you to ask a better question.

Muslim are not like you that dissociate themselves from some part of the bible saying one is old and we follow new one, all because their are words that you are not comfortable with. Gods word is expected to be thought provoking. I have said severally that those verse you quote has background story (quoting and posting link as well) not open ended as you call it.

You want to claim all the Christians are peaceful, have you forgotten the Spanish crusade against Muslims, creating offensive thread on social media assassinating the image of Catholic, Muslim etc is peaceful? Bros this is how Spanish crusade start, islam might be in the forefront of criticism today might be the turn of Christian tomorrow.



I have to go back to the article when I saw your reply, I couldn't see any where on the article where it mentioned 12 for Muslim world and Biblical time, it simply say Puberty, it graduated to 12 in middle ages and 14-16 now in some Christian world. I will quote and highlight again.

The truth is if the biblical time agreed with Puberty (9-12 Years), is it acceptable now?. If your answer is NO, then while judging Mohammed based on the norm of their time.

See the quote again didn't see where age 12 was mentioned for biblical time but Puberty

"Keeping in mind the ideas of "political correctness" and "absolute morality", in Biblical times the age at which a girl could marry was puberty. However, during the Middle Ages it was usually twelve years old. Now in most "Christian" countries it is between fourteen and sixteen years old. I live in country where some states allow partners of the same sex to legally marry, but consider an eighteen year old boy who sleeps with a sixteen year old girl a "statutory rapist". So even though Christians might disagree with much of what is becoming all too prevalent in Western society today - whether it be drug abuse, gay marriages or abortion - they too have been swallowed up (possibly unknowingly) by the ugly monster of "moral relativism" Certainly, they might be giving in less quickly than people who have no Divine basis for their morality, but they're giving in nonetheless."

Where did it state that puberty is 9 - 12? Aside that where did any scholar claimed she was 12?
12 was mentioned didn't mean she is twelve at the time... they are only explaining puberty age...


My last two girl friends are Arabs... the ex is from France originally from Algeria... current is from Norway originally from Yemen... I have a lot of Muslim friends who don't really follow Mohammad and I am grateful for that.

What Moses did in the old testament has nothing to do with me and I have showed you verses that clear that for you. Jesus paid the ransom, he is the Messiah...

Christians have done bad things... I am not catholic I am protestant... the pope is to Catholics like Mohammad is to Muslims.
Besides their actions cannot even be motivated by the bible because unlike Isis who act then point verse from Qur'an... these guys can't justify their action from any verse

@domack99
Stop being dishonest, the spanish crusades started after the jihadists over ran their land and captured Spain it was meant to take back their land from the marauding jihadists thus that makes it defensive and not offensive as you falsely claim. In fact the whole history of the crusaders started from this episode as the jihadists were attempting to conquer other European territories after conquering Spain. The crusader army was then set up to stop and fight the advancing marauders.

Even though the crusaders in later years went on to commit some attrocities, we still have to thank them for their effort cause if not for them the whole of Europe would have been islamised and the whole world would be back ward today with sharia and beheading being the order of the day.

PastorKun:
@domack99
Stop being dishonest, the spanish crusades started after the jihadists over ran their land and captured Spain it was meant to take back their land from the marauding jihadists thus that makes it defensive and not offensive as you falsely claim. In fact the whole history of the crusaders started from this episode as the jihadists were attempting to conquer other European territories after conquering Spain. The crusader army was then set up to stop and fight the advancing marauders.

Even though the crusaders in later years went on to commit some attrocities, we still have to thank them for their effort cause if not for them the whole of Europe would have been islamised and the whole world would be back ward today with sharia and beheading being the order of the day.

So this is what he was talking about? Anyway good post

benalvino2:

Where did it state that puberty is 9 - 12? Aside that where did any scholar claimed she was 12?
12 was mentioned didn't mean she is twelve at the time... they are only explaining puberty age...

Don't be lazy bro, you should have Google age of puberty before you response to my post, below is a quote of article from Medicinenet.com and the link as well.

http://www.medicinenet.com/puberty/article.htm
"Puberty usually occurs in girls between the ages of 10 and 14, while in boys it generally occurs later, between the ages of 12 and 16. In some African-American girls, puberty begins earlier, at about age 9, meaning that puberty occurs from ages 9 to 14."

benalvino2:

What Moses did in the old testament has nothing to do with me and I have showed you verses that clear that for you. Jesus paid the ransom, he is the Messiah...

Trying hard to dissociate yourself from the bible, when Jesus himself never condemn the old testament.

benalvino2:

My last two girl friends are Arabs... the ex is from France originally from Algeria... current is from Norway originally from Yemen... I have a lot of Muslim friends who don't really follow Mohammad and I am grateful for that.

If what you said about your girl friends are true, If they offer Solat (Prayer) ask them how do they do ablution, If they do ablution the normal way and offer Solat the normal just like any other Muslim. Then I think you should know that ablution and Solat where mentioned in the Quran but how to offer and when to offer them where only demonstrated by Mohammed. Please read this sentence again between the lines to get my message.

benalvino2:

Christians have done bad things... I am not catholic I am protestant... the pope is to Catholics like Mohammad is to Muslims.
Besides their actions cannot even be motivated by the bible because unlike Isis who act then point verse from Qur'an... these guys can't justify their action from any verse

You are trying hard to dissociate there action from the bible, did you remember your saying let me borrow it abeg "but we judge them by their action!!!"

Again, several Muslims have said that Boko Haram and ISIS are not during Islamic biding, open ended verses have been use to support this. See below

"Quran 4:19 O you who have believed, it is not lawful for you to inherit women by compulsion. And do not make difficulties for them in order to take [back] part of what you gave them unless they commit a clear immorality. And live with them in kindness. For if you dislike them - perhaps you dislike a thing and Allah makes therein much good.

"Quran 2:256 “There is no compulsion in religion; the right path has become distinct from the wrong…”



If any body tells you that Boko Haram are Muslim please quote this type of verse for them

domack99:


http://www.medicinenet.com/puberty/article.htm
"Puberty usually occurs in girls between the ages of 10 and 14, while in boys it generally occurs later, between the ages of 12 and 16. In some African-American girls, puberty begins earlier, at about age 9, meaning that puberty occurs from ages 9 to 14."



Trying hard to dissociate yourself from the bible, when Jesus himself never condemn the old testament.
I posted their photos but I have to take it out... its not worth it


Don't be lazy bro, you should have Google age of puberty before you response to my post, below is a quote of article from Medicinenet.com and the link as well.

If what you said about your girl friends are true, If they offer Solat (Prayer) ask them how do they do ablution, If they do ablution the normal way and offer Solat the normal just like any other Muslim. Then I think you should know that ablution and Solat where mentioned in the Quran but how to offer and when to offer them where only demonstrated by Mohammed. Please read this sentence again between the lines to get my message.


Christians have done bad things... I am not catholic I am protestant... the pope is to Catholics like Mohammad is to Muslims.
Besides their actions cannot even be motivated by the bible because unlike Isis who act then point verse from Qur'an... these guys can't justify their action from any verse


You are trying hard to dissociate there action from the bible, did you remember you saying let me borrow it abeg "but we judge them by their action!!!"

Again, several Muslims have said that Boko Haram and ISIS are not during Islamic biding, open ended verses have been use to support this. See below

"Quran 4:19 O you who have believed, it is not lawful for you to inherit women by compulsion. And do not make difficulties for them in order to take [back] part of what you gave them unless they commit a clear immorality. And live with them in kindness. For if you dislike them - perhaps you dislike a thing and Allah makes therein much good.

"Quran 2:256 “There is no compulsion in religion; the right path has become distinct from the wrong…”



If any body tells you that Boko Haram are Muslim please quote this type of verse for them

Its not about when puberty occur... for the millionth time... Mohammad slept with Aisha at 9... Mary according to scholars was 15 16... I don't care when the puberty occurs.

I never said I am condemn it... straw man huh? I have explained this you can browse through this debate to read it again.

Lol they don't even pray and time to time we go to church... they dont practice Islam... they love to drink vodka, jack Daniels etc.

benalvino2:

Its not about when puberty occur... for the millionth time... Mohammad slept with Aisha at 9... Mary according to scholars was 15 16... I don't care when the puberty occurs.

I never said I am condemn it... straw man huh? I have explained this you can browse through this debate to read it again.

You have decided to stick to 15-16, as human being that's what you are comfortable with. well I pick 10-14 based on what I read and I provided the link as evidence, didn't see your on prove for 15-16.

But wait, can you allow your sister or daughter to get married at 15?, I guess the answer is NO, then God must be wicked for putting such burden on Mary at that young age, Right? God is NEVER wicked. Bros, this is the tradition, culture and norm at that period, Get that to your brain

benalvino2:
My last two girl friends are Arabs... the ex is from France originally from Algeria... current is from Norway originally from Yemen... I have a lot of Muslim friends who don't really follow Mohammad and I am grateful for that.

benalvino2:
Lol they don't even pray and time to time we go to church... they dont practice Islam... they love to drink vodka, jack Daniels etc.

LOL, I thought you said they are Muslims, if they go to church why do you call them Muslim, You LIED just to buttress you point, a goof Protestant wouldn't do that

PastorKun:
@domack99
Stop being dishonest, the spanish crusades started after the jihadists over ran their land and captured Spain it was meant to take back their land from the marauding jihadists thus that makes it defensive and not offensive as you falsely claim. In fact the whole history of the crusaders started from this episode as the jihadists were attempting to conquer other European territories after conquering Spain. The crusader army was then set up to stop and fight the advancing marauders.

Even though the crusaders in later years went on to commit some attrocities, we still have to thank them for their effort cause if not for them the whole of Europe would have been islamised and the whole world would be back ward today with sharia and beheading being the order of the day.

HAPPY NEW YEAR SIR,
Offensive, defensive, who start the attack first and who retaliate later, we can debate this on and on, back and forth not sure if we will get any where.

domack99:


You have decided to stick to 15-16, as human being that's what you are comfortable with. well I pick 10-14 based on what I read and I provided the link as evidence, didn't see your on prove for 15-16.

But wait, can you allow your sister or daughter to get married at 15?, I guess the answer is NO, then God must be wicked for putting such burden on Mary at that young age, Right? God is NEVER wicked. Bros, this is the tradition, culture and norm at that period, Get that to your brain






LOL, I thought you said they are Muslims, if they go to church why do you call them Muslim, You LIED just to buttress you point, a goof Protestant wouldn't do that

If they remain Muslim they wouldn't have dated me.

domack99:


HAPPY NEW YEAR SIR,
Offensive, defensive, who start the attack first and who retaliate later, we can debate this on and on, back and forth not sure if we will get any where.

The jihadist were the first to attack and Spain was actually under islamic rule for a long period of time till they were liberated by the crusaders. This is well documented in history so stop trying to twist facts.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_in_Spain

One of the ways peace can be achieved is for muslim women to remove their hijab and use it for the covering of the quranic verses that inspire terror among the mujahadeens.

In other words, quran must be revised, the violence and discriminatory verses removed. But this will only make the quran so small that it will look like a small booklet.

domack99:


You have decided to stick to 15-16, as human being that's what you are comfortable with. well I pick 10-14 based on what I read and I provided the link as evidence, didn't see your on prove for 15-16.

But wait, can you allow your sister or daughter to get married at 15?, I guess the answer is NO, then God must be wicked for putting such burden on Mary at that young age, Right? God is NEVER wicked. Bros, this is the tradition, culture and norm at that period, Get that to your brain






LOL, I thought you said they are Muslims, if they go to church why do you call them Muslim, You LIED just to buttress you point, a goof Protestant wouldn't do that

The only reference to Mary being 12or 14 years is a general writing in Britannica encyclopedia saying Jewish women at that time would be around that age at marriage.
For Aisha all Islamic ancient writings quote her saying she was ra..ped at 9 by . Britannica Is no authority just like wikipedia.
Face a simple fact.. A 54 year old sleeping. with a nine year old.

Back in 2011, for example, Dr. Salih bin Fawzan, a
prominent cleric and member of Saudi Arabia’s highest
religious council, issued a fatwa asserting that there is
no minimum age for marriage and that girls can be
married “even if they are in the cradle.”
Appearing in Saudi papers, the fatwa complained that
“Uninformed interference with Sharia rulings by the
press and journalists is on the increase”—likely a
reference to the justice ministry’s advocacy—“posing
dire consequences to society, including their interference
with the question of marriage to small girls who have
not reached maturity, and their demand that a minimum
age be set for girls to marry.”
Fawzan insisted that nowhere does Sharia (or Islamic
law) set an age limit for marrying girls: like countless
Muslim scholars before him, he relied on Koran 65:4,
which discusses marriage to females who have not yet
begun menstruating (i.e., are prepubescent) and the
fact that Muhammad, Islam’s role model, married Aisha
when she was six or seven, “consummating” the
marriage—or, in modern/Western parlance, raping her—
when she was nine.
The grand point of the Saudi fatwa, however, is not that
girls as young as nine can be married, based on
Muhammad’s example, but rather that there is no age
limit whatsoever. The only question open to
consideration is whether the girl is physically capable of
handling her “husband.” Fawzan documented this point
by quoting Ibn Battal’s authoritative exegesis of Sahih
Bukhari:
The ulema [Islam’s scholars and interpreters] have
agreed that it is permissible for fathers to marry off
their small daughters, even if they are in the cradle.
But it is not permissible for their husbands to have
sex with them unless they are capable of being
placed beneath and bearing the weight of the men.
And their capability in this regard varies based on
their nature and capacity. Aisha was six when she
married the prophet, but he had sex with her when
she was nine [that is, when she was deemed
capable].
Fawzan concluded his fatwa with a warning: “It
behooves those who call for setting a minimum age for
marriage to fear Allah and not contradict his Sharia, or
try to legislate things Allah did not permit. For laws are
Allah’s province; and legislation is his exclusive right, to
be shared by none other. And among these are the rules
governing marriage.”
Once again, case closed.
Fawzan, of course, is not the first to insist on the
legitimacy of pedophilia in Islam. Nor is this just some
theoretic, abstract point; the lives of countless young
girls are devastated because of this teaching. Recall, for
instance, the 8-year-old girl who died on her “wedding”
night as her “husband” raped her; or the 12-year-old
who died giving birth to a stillborn; or the 10-year-old
who made headlines by hiding from her 80-year-old
“husband.”
Finally, it should be borne in mind that Grand Mufti
Abdul Aziz—the highest Islamic authority in the land of
Islam’s birth—not only dismisses calls to place an age
restriction for marriage, but is the same Grand Mufti
who called for the destruction of all Christian churches
on the Arabian Peninsula ( as first reported here).
The consistency makes perfect sense. After all, in the
eyes of non-Muslims, or “non-believers,” Sharia law is
nothing less than a legal system built atop the words
and deeds of a seventh century Arab, whose behavior—
from pedophilia and sex-slavery to war mongering and
plundering to destroying non-Muslim places of worship
—was very much that of a seventh century Arab.