@naijafan
indeed, there are some 3rd party apps back in 1.1.1 that i remember didn't use root privileges, but rather used something like "mobileuser"; not sure of the exact name. but the fact that an app can run using root privilege at all violates a sandbox model. that's the point i'm making.

@logica

well that is absolutely true, but only for apps that do run in a sandbox model and simulate/emulate privileges using digital certificates. in Unix you know very well that almost everything requires permissions (files, directories, etc) and certain requirements/resources require much more than standard user privileges.

its not like apps run in elevated privilege mode all the time; its at the install stage where directories are created, files are modified and functions called. all these go beyond your average usermode. recall that if you're running in Terminal, changes require the chmod, chown or chgrp commands which most often requires root password if the change is systemwide or beyond the normal user layer of the app. fact is, most apps with running daemons require root!

in xcode the Perforce server root directory requires root access, (so also in LDAP which was used in global directory in some of those dreadful webapps) and then theres Process Rights Management  which is a sort of subroot (or simulated root if you will) where requirements inherit ONLY those root privileges they need and not full system access.

I'm sure you know also that OS X is a BSD system with 3 level of users: Owner, Group, and Other. each has their own read/write/execute acces to the files and directories in the system. the Owner of a file or folder is generally who created that file/folder (remember apps create files and folders). this Owner can assign access for the other 2 types of users and in Unix only root can transfer ownership and assign privileges.

now recall all those 0775 and 0755 file permissions we needed to change via SSH in those days? those permissions are automatically assigned by apps in the install stage on those directories that (1) the apps themselves created and (2) the apps need. but they can't very well do that without root access, the same USER:ROOT-PASSWORD:ALPINE credentials you supply to WinSCP, Putty or Iphone Tunnel Suite (whatever you bend to).

so in essence, as apps are installed, changes are made to directories/files with permissions, and these changes require some root power.

but here lies the rub: root access in OS X is by default disabled. what you end up with is the Admin Account which grants the powers of root with one single exception: changes to any files in the system domain is the exclusive preserve of the superuser/root. so in most cases these apps are given admin privileges to effect changes, transfer control, assign permissions and interact with the low-level kernel. at the end of runtime these admin powers are stripped from the caller.

@Ex. Thanks. I get the picture. But you know, this your lengthy essay could be summarised in just one sentence!

only you would think that. But why dont you give us that sentence summarizing everything ex just posted. (not that i believe it is remotely possible)

Ex Inferis,

my guy, this is the most important phrase in ur post: "most apps with running daemons require root".

Thanks Logica for the summary. Cabali you see?

@flyuche
will you just STFU? the way you are thanking Ex and Logica makes me wonder if you even understand what is being said here.

@Logica. No sir. Daemons are not actual applications. Appstore apps dont require root access. Jailbreak apps that dont perform extra-ordinary acctions dont require root access as well.

On a legal iPhone (without the jailbreaks), all applications effectively run in sandboxes. Jailbreaking destroys that sandbox model. Apps can now arbitrarily read other apps' data (Tunewiki, etc), inject themselves into other running apps (QuickGold, Dock, yellowsn0w etc) or make permanent (persistent even after a reboot) systemwide changes (winterboard, etc.) These apps will never make it to the AppStore because
#1. they violate Apple's sandbox model
#2. they wouldnt run on a device that isnt already jailbroken anyway.

dig?

Hopefully, the security model has changed radically from what I read here in these articles:

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/10/24/omtp_security/

http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/blog/2007/oct/25/researchersattackiphonessec

http://cultofmac.com/confiormed-iphones-security-better-but-still-not-perfect/1791

I have posted the articles in order of improvement of the security model.

They changed the model by having apps run using the "mobile" privilege (that was the user id I was trying to remember earlier), but this still isn't a sandbox, as a rogue application that takes hold of the "mobile" id will equally be able to do damage to all apps.

Now, I'm not sure if there is a newer model that the last 1 I posted.

@logica
i remembered seeing something like that when OpenClip for iPhone almost debuted. had to do some searching to get the link out again. here: http://daringfireball.net/2008/08/raining_on_the_openclip_parade

scroll down to the "iPhone sandboxing" section. We probably aren't seeing things from the same perspective.

the fact that a rougue app can inflict damage using 'mobile' was never proven. just check the comments under that last article you posted. sounded more like a mis-guided comparison with google's andriod.

Guys pls sorry for digressing a little,,,,,,,,,,does any1 know know wen naija wil be added to itunes store?

lynxnoon:

Guys please sorry for digressing a little,,,,,,,,,,does anyone know know when naija wil be added to itunes store?

Nigeria wasnt even in the list of countries the iPhone 3G was gonna be rolled out to soon. Cameroun made the list.

flyuche:

Thanks Logica for the summary. Cabali you see?

It's a shame this boy does not know anything being said here on this thread at all!!

@naijafan. If it makes you feel any better, you could remove the 'thanks'. I understand English better than you do regardless of the fact  that i had a french education. What you should be wondering about is the direction of this boring thread considering the malicious code you  in your post: STFU. Otherwise i would have asked you to K M A!

naijafan:

Nigeria wasnt even in the list of countries the iPhone 3G was going to be rolled out to soon. Cameroun made the list.

men naija no try oh
ok u guya using d itunes store,,,,,,did u use credit card here or hv som1 subcribe ova dere for u?
tnx for u replies

@flyuche
Good thing this thread is boring to you. I never visit the FBT/Opera mini threads cos they are boring to me as well. Now, can you please excuse us and stop being a troll?

Naijafan .I won't give you the pleasure.

Naijafan .I won't give you the pleasure. I will teach you guys a few things. Watch out.

Naijafan .I won't give you the pleasure. I will teach you guys a few things. Watch out.

flyuche:

Naijafan .I won't give you the pleasure. I will teach you guys a few things. Watch out.

stupid spammer

apparently the security model has been updated after much criticism. it now actually looks more like the model in Android (this is quite obvious). there was no need 4 any serious demonstration 2 show that any malicious code that gets a hold of the "mobile" profile can wreak havoc on all installed apps, as they all shared this profile.

flyuche:

Naijafan .I won't give you the pleasure. I will teach you guys a few things. Watch out.

I dare u!!!

fucking spammer

naijafan:

@flyuche
Good thing this thread is boring to you. I never visit the FBT/Opera mini threads because they are boring to me as well. Now, can you please excuse us and stop being a troll?

I wonder

now ex, tex,

1. How do you get contacts sync to the iphone 3g. There is one that seems unlocked, it picks various networks can browse at 3g speed but during the attempt to sync, it requests for the original. sim card attached to the phone

2. configuring microsoft exchange

Can y'all help?

Hey tex are u back?

@cabali
Yeah, i'm back. Still frantically trying to get fast internet in my house. Dunno what's wrong with my place

MTN 3G turns to 2G once you get indoors
Starcomms EVDO turns to CDMA 1x some meters from my house
All Wimax solution i've tested do not get any appreciable signal, even though the baffled salesmen assure me that people not too far from that area get good signals. I've tried Direct on PC, Hyperia Wimax etc

It's a really, really shitty situation, but i still manage to keep up with what's going on. Namely

1. Ex Inferis, Logica are holding the fort nicely, and possibly chasing away casual observers with geek speak
2. Flyuche doesn't realise that Muza was out for the humor (he's since relocated to the Politics section and Israel bashing), he (Flyuche) strangely feels he has something to offer and does not realise how much of an idiotic troll he sounds like

I dunno about this 'Phones' section, man. there's very few people doing what this forum was set up for and actually discussing PHONES. CES 2009 is on right now, not too many new devices announced, but at least we've got the Palm Pre as perhaps the first device to make a convincing competitor to the iPhone's UI and there's no talk about that.

Meanwhile, someone in the office got hold of that 'iphone 3g vs stone' chart and now i have a different battle to fight on home turf

cabali, your number isn't going through.

Oh yeah, Ex, I forgot 2 commend u on the themes. really nice.

logica:

Oh yeah, Ex, I forgot 2 commend u on the themes. really nice.

thanks. for some reason sprinboard crashes, havta find a way to fix that. then upload to Cydia.

meanwhile:


redsn0w.

could it be the 3G permanent unlock?

http://redsn0w.com

hey tex,

am just reading this sorry man! I had a major crisis on my line and I cant seem to get zain to fix it for a while now. I will txt u with an older number I have in use in the interim

@ tex et. al.

Do u guys use iphone pc suite? how effective is it?

its matured considerably, and is almost what itunes *should* have been. if only they can get it to install apps.

redsn0w is likely the new ipod touch jailbreak.

This thread had beta nt die, It keeps expectant iphone owners lyk me maintain interest, Eh,tex bro,im open 4 dt iphone o,or do i hav 2 b a pain lyk **** b4 im considered?Oh n u ex(meant in a respeckful way),i cant help bt fall in like wit u;i cld b ur biggest fan u knw!
hope im nt off topic by a long shot sha

u are more than welcome to be my biggest fan, and then some. if however you turn out to be a dude im coming after you with a righteous 12 gauge.

Ex Inferis:

its matured considerably, and is almost what itunes *should* have been. if only they can get it to install apps.

redsn0w is likely the new ipod touch jailbreak.

Have they gotten the ipod section to work in PC Suite? Haven't updated in a while.