dayokanu:

@ Samorijack,

Well said!!

His romance with OBJ eroded ll forms of credibility he might have had

Dayo,

I had said earlier that yours was a case of transferred aggression.

You just proved me right.

Your real grouse is with OBJ!

You even admit that Adeboye 'had' some credibility before, until bla bla bla.

A very important issue!

Have we read the latest(yet out) edition of NEWSWEEK?

How can we have read that and still keep on reviling Adeboye? We can't even be proud of our own achievers and celebrate them. SHAME!

WOW! I've just glimpsed through highlights, and I'm amazed.

Adeboye has been listed as one of the 50 most influential men in the world. Together with people like Obama, Gordon Brown, Oprah Winfrey, Warren Buffet, The Clintons, Nancy Pelosi, Bill Gates, Bloomberg, Putin, Angela Merkel, and a host of other world class leaders.

Was Newsweek talking thrash? And here is the world's most respected and widely read magazine along TIME!

http://www.newsweek.com/id/176333

Also, could Prince Charles have been lying when he paid tributes to Adeboye's church in London? He particularly noted their immense contribution to social welfare in London. He went on to say he wished he had known the Redeemed church earlier. Friends, he celebrated his birthday there!

Has any other Nigerian been this celebrated  globally?

Come on, Whose opinion would you rather listen to?  The Newsweek and Prince Charles of England, or some faceless and unknown Dayokanu or Jakuno or any other unknown quantity?

Your guess is as good as mine.

Listen to Prince Charles
Like Prince Charles is the one getting stuck in traffic, or the one who is feeling the brunt of what Adeboye's friend OBJ did to the country.

@GETTYSBURG

Your jibe about me beign financially hit was unduely personal and you need to keep this conversation professional and intellectual. If you read my post again you might see there's a point to all of this. You don't have to bump this but please respect it. In my opinion the RCCG IS JUST A BUSINESS VENTURE, same as other manifestations of organised religion. The protagonists of these religious sects are usually the greatest beneficiaries of their benevolence, dam shame.

The convenient personal or sectarian benefit derivable from quoting religious passages, as Samori Jack pointed out so succinctly, is that such quotations can be used to fabricate "justification" for every manner of grievous crime ranging from genocide to grand larceny.

The Ku Klux Klan white supremacist group in the United States has historically resorted to profuse bible quotations in order to justify the hanging of innocent black men by the neck from trees, the rape of children and the fire-bombing of black churches.

Suicide bombers in Iraq refer to passages in the Quaran as being supportive of the imperative to destroy the lives and property of POLITICAL opponents and of passers-by who are not "good"  Muslims.  Similarly, in Northern Nigeria, it takes little more than a screamed lie that someone has disrespected the Quaran for gangs of murderers to organize and then descend on the homes of non-Muslims with fiery torches, guns and spears. 

Nigerian miracle pastors, of whom Eunuch Adeboye is a classic example, rely entirely on their own misinterpretation of bible quotations to frighten their impoverished followers into coughing up their precious cash savings in order to escape imaginary hell-fires invoked by the obese billionaire preachers who holler away bug-eyed and hysterical at the pulpit, while quietly marvelling at the gullibility of the rapt congregation.

The only political positions that should ever be made available to those who live off this insidious form of brainwashing should be the post of head-cook or toilet cleaner in a prison yard, if society at large is to be protected from the sort of mass insanity could otherwise ensue.

@Jakumo, get over your bitterness against Nigerian pastors. Silly to think all Pastors as criminals. Again, if he has never fleeced you and you have no proof but opinion to offer, then may I suggest you stick to ranting about how his blocking traffic ruins your life. Seriously, you come off as one of them senile old men with nothing but bitterness to offer whenever religion or God is mentioned. Worse is they do not claim to belief but are convinced they have it all figured out.

Don't bet on the age thing, KJ. You may in fact be considerably older than most here, but that is no more a sin than would be the case if your assumption were true. I hope to live to a ripe old age, so your bestowing me with that honor many decades in advance is to me a Good omen.

Do you support the KKK ?

Well, I have met younger people who spew forth bitterness of that sort most every time the word “God” is mentioned, so it is not really about age or honor, but the picture that comes to mind when I meet persons who do that. I used to take the bus back in the days and I can remember having to listen to some old “idiot” rant about how people who believe in God are foolish. Listening to them, you can swear the old man is trying really hard to hide his pain and anger towards God for not, maybe, giving him life according to his own design. And by old, I mean men in their 40’s as well. Any who, sure I will support the KKK if it will get you to shut up about how you think pastor’s are out to fleece folks. I can choose to allow myself to be 419ed… it is my right, so why do you have a problem with that or with whom I choose to "419" me?

Let the people choose to be fleeced and you mind your own business. . . is that too much?

@Kobo,

Are you cool with the way he abetted corruption and looting of the country by corrupt politicians?

The traffic thing is no joke. I know a friend who spent 11 hours from Lagos to Ibadan. just because one man wants to make money.

dayokanu:

@Kobo,

Are you cool with the way he abetted corruption and looting of the country by corrupt politicians?

Of course I am not “cool” with anyone abetting corruption and looting but is there really evidence for this or are we just stepping ahead of ourselves to conclude that he did just because he dined with OBJ? I mean even Jesus himself dined with the Pharisees; did that make him one of them? We cannot go around accusing people willy-nilly just because we have a right to an opinion. There is such a thing as slander and last I checked, the law frowns on slanderers. If Adeboye is what these people want, let them have Adeboye and we keep our bias checked since we have no solid evidence/proof to back up our claims here.

Concerning the OBJ issue, Maybe the man has learnt his lesson. Not heard him dining Yar adua but he is allowed to dine with whom he chooses. I remember back in the 80’s when the likes of Guru Maharaji and Malaika were the rave. I am almost certain that many of the people who allowed themselves be fleeced by people like that, who claimed to be God himself, knew the truth but chose to continue. Adeboye is not a political leader; neither does he claim to ‘Speak For’ the nation. He is just a pastor of a mega-church in Nigeria. He is not the one sitting right now plotting how this 2009, the budget will also go to waste for the country. He is not the state government with mansions in most every state built with the people’s money. He is not the politician seating in the pent house of a five star hotel as we speak wondering how much more money he can suck off of the people’s treasury in the New Year. He is just a pastor and the people who give him, do so FREELY. I think we should make sure we understand that fact. Those, whom you mentioned stepped out to give millions when he asked, did so of their FREE WILL and we ought to respect that fact, regardless of what we feel about all that giving.

dayokanu:

The traffic thing is no joke. I know a friend who spent 11 hours from Lagos to Ibadan. just because one man wants to make money.

I know traffic can be hell in Nigeria. I mean a typical day in the life of any Nigerian who commutes is filled with traffic HELL stories. I sit in traffic for 30 minutes due to some snow storm and I am already looking to call the cops or something. Lol. Adeboye or not, there will always be traffic jam. Has it ever occurred to you that the reason it continues is because no group has actually complained to him and maybe demanded he do something about it or face the consequences? I remember back when Lagos was still a good place, there was camp ground provided for such retreats and sufficient parking for the campers. People even had to pay for parking in some cases. Gone are those days but businesses can be called in to take advantage of the chaos, make money and do some good at the end of the day but I still have yet to hear of any particular call for him to do something about the problem. We are speaking of Nigeria where people do nothing unless you practically FORCE them to. Even then, a miracle might be needed. lol

It's really sad in Nigeria that for the most part the only people crying out againdst the injustices in Nigeria are atheists and muslims, where are all the born again pastors? THEY'RE IN THEIR CHURCHES counting their gold coins. The truth is that this unfortunately does not apply to just christian leaders in Nigeria alone.

There was a socio- political uprising led by the monks in BURMA, did'nt hear of any christian or leaders suporting the brave monks. In Nigeria Adeboye and the like pray for thisURUPT LOT  and then come and preach to you and me about a soon comming change, because we are the only ones gulible enough to swallow that crap.

I don't have anything against Adeboye and the like but when you derive your legitmacy from God, you should expect to be held to a higher standard. If Nigerian paSTORS change Nigeria has a better chance of changing.

When a pastors welfare is tied to the benevolence4 of the congregaton, it seriously compromises his ability to speak the truth. Truth which may not necessarilly endear him to his audience. Historically people do not always like to hear the truth.

samorijack:

It's really sad in Nigeria that for the most part the only people crying out againdst the injustices in Nigeria are atheists and muslims, where are all the born again pastors? THEY'RE IN THEIR CHURCHES counting their gold coins. The truth is that this unfortunately does not apply to just christian leaders in Nigeria alone.

You are joking, right? Please tell me that the statement in bold was made out of bias or please provide proof.

samorijack:

There was a socio- political uprising led by the monks in BURMA, did'nt hear of any christian or leaders suporting the brave monks. In Nigeria Adeboye and the like pray for thisURUPT LOT  and then come and preach to you and me about a soon comming change, because we are the only ones gulible enough to swallow that crap.

How many Christians do you know of in Burma? And did they have to LOP the words “WE ARE CHRISTIAN” in to support the monks? Give me a Break!! If you did not figure it out yet, what happened in Burma was not about religion but more about politics. Jeezz!!!
Have you ever actually heard Adeboye preach or are you just ranting now? I mean come on. There is a thin line between intelligence and lunacy and you are so going over it with all that you are spewing now. I am not for the nonsense in Nigeria but COME ON!!

samorijack:

I don't have anything against Adeboye and the like but when you derive your legitmacy from God, you should expect to be held to a higher standard. If Nigerian paSTORS change Nigeria has a better chance of changing.

Lol. . . yet your own words seem to speak the opposite. Nigerian pastors, or pastors anywhere are not politicians and they are not there to do your job for you. You are a Nigeria, do your part. Stop EXPECTING these pastors to be your messiah in this case. What is wrong with you? Have you no mouth or brain to speak out for your own rights and the right of your children? Jeeezzz!!!  Sure he is to be held to higher standards but when you start to make them into gods, don’t you see how that clearly shows you are going too far? By the way, by whose authority are you holding him to a higher standard? It is not like you elected him to be Pastor or something. Who the frell are you to decide what standards he gets to abide by and which he cannot?  What standards would you have held the likes of Guru Maharaji or Malaika to?

samorijack:

When a pastors welfare is tied to the benevolence4 of the congregaton, it seriously compromises his ability to speak the truth. Truth which may not necessarilly endear him to his audience. Historically people do not always like to hear the truth.

It does? According to whose law? Yours or the states? This is seriously a case of misplaced frustrations.

Seig Heil!  KJ.  If you promise to tell me more about the Far Right, I will partially abstain from my favourite sport of lampooning the haughty and predatory among Nigeria's cast of comical characters.

Kobojunkie:

He is just a pastor and the people who give him, do so[b] FREELY[/b].

I know traffic can be hell in Nigeria. IAdeboye or not, there will always be traffic jam. Has it ever occurred to you that the reason it continues is because no group has actually complained to him and maybe demanded he do something about it or face the consequences? I

The FREEDOM to visit Pastor Eunuch's concentration camps by a minority of all road users of a federal highway is being exercised at the expense of the FREEDOM of the majority of road users, who simply want to travel to or from Lagos in transit to the rest of Nigeria without getting trapped for 15 hours on account of an AVOIDABLE gridlock of cult worshipper's cars and buses.

Your reference to the 15-hour traffic STANDSTILL created by Redeemed Camp's monthly anexation of a federal highway as being comparable to any old regular traffic jam will change the instant you or anyone you care about falls into that deadly tar-pit set for motorists by Pastor Eunuch on the Lagos Expressway every month for the past 25 years.

As an experiment, why not schedule a road-trip for that time of the month on that highway linking Lagos the east, south and north of the country, and then commit your 15-hour ordeal to writing, after first issuing your public apology here for having till now remained unaware of the true scope of Pastor Eunuch's monthly assault against public freedom in Nigeria.

Jakumo:

Seig Heil!  KJ.  If you promise to tell me more about the Far Right, I will partially abstain from my favourite sport of lampooning the haughty and predatory among Nigeria's cast of comical characters.

This has nothing to do with Far Left or Far right but simply about knowing that no matter where you are, you ought to respect the rights of your fellow man in your fight for your own. its common sense! No need to create stories you can not back up with nothing but lots more stories and no substantial proof at the end of the day.

Jakumo:

You see KJ, the FREEDOM to visit Pastor Eunuch's concentration camps by a minority of all road users of a federal highway is being exercised at the expense of the FREEDOM of the majority of road users, who simply want to travel to or from Lagos from the rest of Nigeria without getting trapped for 15 hours because an AVOIDABLE gridlock of worshippers cars and buses.

Your reference to the 15-hour traffic STANDSTILL created by Redeemed Camp's monthly anexation of a federal highway as being comparable to any old regular traffic jam will change the instant you or anyone you care about falls into that deadly tar-pit set for motorists by Pastor Eunuch on the Lagos Expressway every month for the past 25 years.

As an experiment, why not schedule a road-trip for that time of the month on that highway linking Lagos the east, south and north of the country, and then commit your 15-hour ordeal to writing, after first issuing your public apology here for having till now remained unaware of the true scope of Pastor Eunuch's monthly assault against public freedom in Nigeria.

To help you out, I have actually sat in traffic for hours on end on the Nigerian road. In fact, I remember a trip to the eastern part of the country that lasted two days instead of just a couple of hours. My point remains, we can sit here and rant about how bad traffic can get at one of those retreats and how Adeboye is going for hell for it. You have the time, go right ahead. I have no qualms with that.

Now that I have managed to salvage your soul, KJ, will you marry me, assuming, of course, that you are an anatomically correct female as I suspect ?

Jakumo:

Now that I have managed to salvage your soul, KJ, will you marry me, assuming, of course, that you are an anatomically correct female as I suspect ?

I never knew there were a bunch of Jokers on  this thread!

Could have spared myself some stress.

Gettysburg you are obstructing the cosmic path of my marriage proposal with your disturbance.

Please hold your silence while The Oracle is consulted and a formal reply is prepared.

@ Jakumo,

Obstruction Evacuated! Permission granted!

Jakumo:

Seig Heil!  KJ.  If you promise to tell me more about the Far Right, I will partially abstain from my favourite sport of lampooning the haughty and predatory among Nigeria's cast of comical characters.


The FREEDOM to visit Pastor Eunuch's concentration camps by a minority of all road users of a federal highway is being exercised at the expense of the FREEDOM of the majority of road users, who simply want to travel to or from Lagos in transit to the rest of Nigeria without getting trapped for 15 hours on account of an AVOIDABLE gridlock of cult worshipper's cars and buses.

Your reference to the 15-hour traffic STANDSTILL created by Redeemed Camp's monthly anexation of a federal highway as being comparable to any old regular traffic jam will change the instant you or anyone you care about falls into that deadly tar-pit set for motorists by Pastor Eunuch on the Lagos Expressway[b] every month for the past 25 years[/b].

As an experiment, why not schedule a road-trip for that time of the month on that highway linking Lagos the east, south and north of the country, and then commit your 15-hour ordeal to writing, after first issuing your public apology here for having till now remained unaware of the true scope of Pastor Eunuch's monthly assault against public freedom in Nigeria.

Everymonth!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
How do they get away with that?
Nevermind, I know the answer Nigerians are scared sh*tless of the invisible man in the sky.
So what happens if there's an accident and they try to transport casualities to a hospital?
Nevermind,I know the answers to that too. the will of god and god won't let that happen.
Shuffering and Shmilin. I'm glad I don't live in Nigeria.

Martian:

Everymonth!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
How do they get away with that?
Nevermind, I know the answer Nigerians are scared sh*tless of the invisible man in the sky.
So what happens if there's an accident and they try to transport casualities to a hospital?
Nevermind,I know the answers to that too. the will of god and god won't let that happen.
Shuffering and Shmilin. I'm glad I don't live in Nigeria.

Even the babalawo, and according to one of the posters on here, the atheists and the muslims in Nigeria,who are not supposedly afraid of Adeboye's man in the sky, have not been able to get the man to move his community off the main roads? I am shocked, but then again, who knows if they have actually made their complaints known to the man and maybe the state government. Could be the usual complain in the corner and never in public move we Nigerians are mostly known for.

@ KoboJunkie

I really don't care whether you're supporting this guy (Adeboye) but it seems like you're sittting on the fence and you seem to jump at people whenever they criticise him. Are you just scared of supporting a just cause or do you think these guys have no basis for criticising Pastor Adeboye?

B.O.S.S.:

@ KoboJunkie
I really don't care whether you're supporting this guy (Adeboye) but it seems like you're sittting on the fence and you seem to jump at people whenever they criticise him. Are you just scared of supporting a just cause or do you think these guys have no basis for criticising Pastor Adeboye?

Well, I don’t understand what you mean when you say it seems like I am sitting on the fence here. I am not. I am against blocking traffic, something I know the guy to be guilty of, as I have been to one of his retreats and the journey back home was hell. And people parking their cars right on the road? I am against. So why do you still think I am on the fence when I have repeatedly made my stance clear on this?

Kobojunkie:


Well, I don’t understand what you mean when you say it seems like I am sitting on the fence here. I am not. I am against blocking traffic, something I know the guy to be guilty of, as I have been to one of his retreats and the journey back home was hell. And people parking their cars right on the road? I am against. So why do you still think I am on the fence when I have repeatedly made my stance clear on this?

My bad if I misread you, Apologies.

@Kobo,
You mean someone has to tell Adeboye that he is obstructing traffic and its not good?

Someone too has to tell Adeboye's bossom friend OBJ that looting is not good.

We might have to tell the populace that throwing thrash and defeacating on the highway is bad

Even the babalawo, and according to one of the posters on here, the atheists and the muslims in Nigeria,who are not supposedly afraid of Adeboye's man in the sky, have not been able to get the man to move his community off the main roads? I am shocked, but then again, who knows if they have actually made their complaints known to the man and maybe the state government. Could be the usual complain in the corner and never in public move  we Nigerians are mostly known for.

complaints have already been made to the Ogun state government.  Adeboye isn't the only culprit but he is one of the major violators.  plain and simple, that area was meant as an industrial zone and not for religious gatherings.  the political connections of these men of God has allowed churches to not only maintain their structures but EXPAND with little regard for urban planning or public safety. I personally witnessed that even parking is an hassle during these holy ghost fire conventions. redeem obviously has money to build overpriced universities but providing appropriate parking for your congregation isn't a priority (donations are accepted of course) The fact that the ogun state government once threatened to destroy some of these structures is proof that complaints have been made. 

the problem isn't complaints but the political connections these men of God have built to protect their business empires

bawomolo:

complaints have already been made to the Ogun state government. Adeboye isn't the only culprits but he is one of the major violators. plain and simple, that area was meant as an industrial zone and not for religious gatherings. the political connections of these men of God has allowed to not only maintain their structures but EXPAND with little regard for urban planning or public safety. I personally witnessed that even parking is an hassle during these holy ghost fire conventions. redeem obviously has money to build overpriced universities but providing appropriate parking for your congregation isn't a priority (donations are accepted of course) The fact that the ogun state government once threatened to destroy some of these structures is proof that complaints have been made.

the problem isn't complaints but the political connections these men of God have built to protect their business empires

DO MOSLEMS DO THIS ROAD BLOCK AT ALL?

JJYOU:

DO MOSLEMS DO THIS ROAD BLOCK AT ALL?

although this is just a diversionary tactic, yes muslims do block roads during their friday service or parties. Religious organizations as a whole are guilty of this.

dayokanu:

@Kobo,
You mean someone has to tell Adeboye that he is obstructing traffic and its not good?
Someone too has to tell Adeboye's bossom friend OBJ that looting is not good.
We might have to tell the populace that throwing thrash and defeacating on the highway is bad

Well, considering we are speaking of Nigeria where most anything flies, yes, tell him and make sure to sue him for it too if you have the time. We are still talking of a country here where people stoop to defecate right in front of passersby. You tell him and maybe use a catapult on his bum and next time he might think twice before committing such in public again.
Do you have evidence that this man is in cahoots with Obj to loot? I am not exactly sure how you came about this but do share. Instead of expecting me to go about saying things I am not sure of, why don’t you do a better job at convincing people like me that the man is as guilty as Obasanjo is by showing us some evidence. As for them dining, I already explained that even your Jesus dined with the Pharisees, don’t see you going on about how that makes Jesus a looter as well. ;d

Actually, you not only have to tell them but you have to make sure they understand that there are consequences for such actions. That is how monkeys/dogs even humans get tamed. Naturally we are wild but when you draw the lines for us clearly and make sure we understand that crossing the line comes with some form of punishment, you will see change. Same thing works here in the US. The main reason why my neighbor does not throw his trash in my yard is because he weighs the consequences of such action and realizes each day that it is not the right path to take.

Dayokanu:
@Kobo,

Are you cool with the way he abetted corruption and looting of the country by corrupt politicians?

/quote]

What do you know as the meaning of Abetting?

Here is the Dictionary meaning for you:

1  : to actively second and encourage (as an activity or plan)   2  : to assist or support in the achievement of a purpose

Now, when you make wild claims, will you just back them with some few facts?

JUST one single fact, or event, or evidence to back your claim.

When i make my arguments, i back them with measurable data, empirical observations, and reference-able statements.

But you just hit at a point, without giving evidence or supporting data.  That's loudness, not logic.

Please, give at least one single measurable, verifiable evidence to support your claims.

Your associating of Adeboye with OBJ here is not different from what the RNC tried to do tying Obama with Ayers.  And even when Billy Graham was reffered to as Pastor to USA presidents, he wasn't accused for whatever were their wrongs in office.

Again, check out the facts.

I ask:

The Newsweek (Jan '09) has identified the 50 most influential/powerful people in the world today.

Only three blacks made the list.  As expected, most are whites, including The Clintons, Warren Buffet, Merkel, Bloomberg, Bill & Melinda Gates, Gordon Brown, etc.

Three blacks: Barrack Obama, Oprah Winfrey and, a Nigerian  -   Umaru Musa Yar Adua.   E . A . Adeboye.
[/s]

What could have informed this choice?? Or was the Newsweek wrong in their selection? Or should The Newsweek be sued for this 'misinformation'?

Can i have some answers pleeeeaase?

GettysBurg:

I ask:

The Newsweek (Jan '09) has identified the 50 most influential/powerful people in the world today.

Only three blacks made the list.  As expected, most are whites, including The Clintons, Warren Buffet, Merkel, Bloomberg, Bill & Melinda Gates, Gordon Brown, etc.

Three blacks: Barrack Obama, Oprah Winfrey and, a Nigerian  -   Umaru Musa Yar Adua.   E . A . Adeboye.
[/s]

What could have informed this choice?? Or was the Newsweek wrong in their selection? Or should The Newsweek be sued for this 'misinformation'?

Can i have some answers pleeeeaase?

Hi again Gettysburg, Without digressing.

I have a thing or two to say regarding the list of the world's movers and shakers. NewsWeek have a right to their opinion just as anybody else. Do you remember, that in 2005, Osam Bin Laden was among the 50 most influential people in the world according to TIME magazine and simon Cowell (X-Factor) was also on the same list while Tony Blair, the then prime minister wasn't?

Does that mean anything to you?

More so, with majority of Adeboye's crowd based in Nigeria, that might have prompted his NewsWeek's selection because as far as I'm concerned, apart from the sect of believers, he's not that known outside Nigeria by non-Nigerians.

Summary: Adeboye might be a pillar in Nigeria and a giant but outside Nigeria - Hell Naw.

B.O.S.S.:

Hi again Gettysburg, Without digressing.

I have a thing or two to say regarding the list of the world's movers and shakers. NewsWeek have a right to their opinion just as anybody else. Do you remember, that in 2005, Osam Bin Laden was among the 50 most influential people in the world according to TIME magazine and simon Cowell (X-Factor) was also on the same list while Tony Blair, the then prime minister wasn't?

Does that mean anything to you?

More so, with majority of Adeboye's crowd based in Nigeria, that might have prompted his NewsWeek's selection because as far as I'm concerned, apart from the sect of believers, he's not that known outside Nigeria by non-Nigerians.

Summary: Adeboye might be a pillar in Nigeria and a giant but outside Nigeria - Hell Naw.

if you knew how the world politics work you will never have said that last word. public and private goes hand in hand. the publicity he got is what cost some millions of dollars. if he can milk it dont be surprised seeing him address UN next year. if he can milk and use it.