Discussing TRINITY with Jehovah Witness, Trinitarian can point to Philippians 2:6 to show that Jesus existed in the form/nature of God but JWs will quickly point to the last part of that verse to claim that Jesus didn't claim EQUALITY with God or sometimes JWs will say Jesus ONLY existed as a spirit person since God is a spirit. Is it true?

If Philippians 2:6 says "Who, being in the form of God...," and the next statement says "thought it not robbery to be equal with God" (KJV) something must has been lost in the mind of individual trying to reconcile second statement with the first statement. Some Trinitarians stuck at this point while JWs think that's the best time to continue with it.

I will ask only one question which I'll like anyone who wants to contribute should limit his/her answer to without going outside of this question.

Is Philippians 2:6 says Jesus is EQUAL or NOT EQUAL to God?

NOTE: Please no reference to another scriptures ONLY the UNDERSTANDING of Philippians 2:6 we need here.

Good luck jonathan is a human being and a president and i am also a human bieng, there for i am equal to mr. president good luck jonathan as a human being but not as a president.u get it.

From this passage i believe that Jesus is God cos no man born of a man and woman can ever be said to be in the form of God or claim equality with Him. Only God has His form and is equal to himself.

Emusan:
Discussing TRINITY with Jehovah Witness, Trinitarian can point to Philippians 2:6 to show that Jesus existed in the form/nature of God but JWs will quickly point to the last part of that verse to claim that Jesus didn't claim EQUALITY with God or sometimes JWs will say Jesus ONLY existed as a spirit person since God is a spirit. Is it true?

If Philippians 2:6 says "Who, being in the form of God...," and the next statement says "thought it not robbery to be equal with God" (KJV) something must has been lost in the mind of individual trying to reconcile second statement with the first statement. Some Trinitarians stuck at this point while JWs think that's the best time to continue with it.

I will ask only one question which I'll like anyone who wants to contribute should limit his/her answer to without going outside of this question.

Is Philippians 2:6 says Jesus is EQUAL or NOT EQUAL to God?

NOTE: Please no reference to another scriptures ONLY the UNDERSTANDING of Philippians 2:6 we need here.

you will understand that verse better if you read the previous verse and the next . verse 6 is in two parts . part one says
who BEING IN THE FORM OF GOD.
the bible didn't deny jesus didn't have the form of God. Some people when they want to explain this verse quickly ignore this part .
The word " FORM" is from a greek Word " MORPHE " where you get the word " MORPHOLOGY" from. morphology means form , shape , structure, appearance, nature. meaning jesus had the same form , appearance, shape and nature with God he is not talking about Jesus being a spirit because angels are also spirits. let me quote a better translation that shows the true meaning of the word FORM.
AMPLIFIED VERSION
PHILIPPIANS 2:6
who although being essentially one with God and in the form of God (POSSESSING THE FULLNESS OF THE ATTRIBUTES WHICH MAKES GOD GOD ) .........
the part in bracket explains the word form. Jesus was equal with God in form , shape , appearance and having everything that makes the father God.
PART two of that verse
thought it not robbery to be equal with God.
king James version used two key words in understanding this part which are ROBBERY AND EQUAL.
ROBBERY is from a greek Word " HARPAGAMOS" which means to hold to something forcefully in other to retain it.
EQUAL. is a word " ISOS " which means equal to .

This part is saying that this equality with God jesus didn't see it as something that must be retained at all cost. You may ask why? the next verse says why . the previous verse talks about ATTITUDE.
a better translation for the second part
AMPLIFIED VERSION
.........DID NOT THINK THIS EQUALITY WITH GOD WAS A THING TO BE GRASPED OR RETAINED.
because in coming to the world Jesus took the form of a man. The verse doesn't deny his equality with God but tells us that he didn't see it as something to be retained by all means because he was coming to earth.

oprajo:
you will understand that verse better if you read the previous verse and the next . verse 6 is in two parts . part one says
who BEING IN THE FORM OF GOD.

the bible didn't deny jesus didn't have the form of God. Some people when they want to explain this verse quickly ignore this part.

The word " FORM" is from a greek Word " MORPHE " where you get the word " MORPHOLOGY" from. morphology means form , shape , structure, appearance, nature. meaning jesus had the same form , appearance, shape and nature with God he is not talking about Jesus being a spirit because angels are also spirits.

let me quote a better translation that shows the true meaning of the word FORM.
AMPLIFIED VERSION
PHILIPPIANS 2:6
who although being essentially one with God and in the form of God (POSSESSING THE FULLNESS OF THE ATTRIBUTES WHICH MAKES GOD GOD ) .........
the part in bracket explains the word form. [size=14pt]Jesus was equal with God in form , shape , appearance and having everything that makes the father God.[/size]

PART two of that verse
thought it not robbery to be equal with God.
king James version used two key words in understanding this part which are ROBBERY AND EQUAL.
ROBBERY is from a greek Word " HARPAGAMOS" which means to hold to something forcefully in other to retain it.
EQUAL. is a word " ISOS " which means equal to .

This part is saying that this equality with God jesus didn't see it as something that must be retained at all cost. You may ask why? the next verse says why . the previous verse talks about ATTITUDE.
a better translation for the second part
AMPLIFIED VERSION
.........DID NOT THINK THIS EQUALITY WITH GOD WAS A THING TO BE GRASPED OR RETAINED.
because in coming to the world Jesus took the form of a man. The verse doesn't deny his equality with God but tells us that he didn't see it as something to be retained by all means because he was coming to earth.

Ok! fro what I can infer from your post IT'S LIKE you agree that Jesus has EQUALITY with the Father as per Bolden and underlined parts.

Am I right?

An2elect2:
From this passage i believe that Jesus is God cos no man born of a man and woman can ever be said to be in the form of God or claim equality with Him. Only God has His form and is equal to himself.

Ok you agree that this verse placed Jesus in EQUALITY with the Father, right?

Jameselias: Good luck jonathan is a human being and a president and i am also a human bieng, there for i am equal to mr. president good luck jonathan as a human being but not as a president.u get it.

Ok you agree that this verse placed Jesus in EQUALITY with the Father IN NATURE but they were DISTINCT, right?

Emusan:


Ok! fro what I can infer from your post IT'S LIKE you agree that Jesus has EQUALITY with the Father as per Bolden and underlined parts.

Am I right?

yes as the first part of the verse.

Kei144:
Philippians 2:6 places Jesus Christ at par with Adam. They were both made in the image of God. Both had the opportunity to become equal to God (or to be express image of the living God). Satan showed both of them the supposed shortcut to being exactly like God--taking His fruit. Adam succumbed to Satan and failed woefully. Jesus did not believe Satan's lie that there is a short cut to becoming like God; instead, he humbled himself and became obedient to God as a faithful servant, and became obedient even unto death on the cross. That was how Jesus Christ qualified to be made equal to God. He was not equal to God in eternity past; he didn't even exist then. He began to exist a little more than 2,000 years ago and he became equal to God less than 2,000 years ago.

Ph. 2:6 Who, being in very nature [Or in the form of] God, did not consider equality with God something to be grasped,
Ph. 2:7 but made himself nothing, taking the very nature [Or the form] of a servant, being made in human likeness.
Ph. 2:8 And being found in appearance as a man, he humbled himself and became obedient to death — even death on a cross!
Ph. 2:9 Therefore God exalted him to the highest place and gave him the name that is above every name,
Ph. 2:10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
Ph. 2:11 and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

He. 12:2 Let us fix our eyes on Jesus, the author and perfecter of our faith, who for the joy set before him endured the cross, scorning its shame, and sat down at the right hand of the throne of God.

The verse is in two parts . why not explain both parts rather than conclude on one part. Jesus is the image of God .

How is Phil. 2:6 Meant to Be Understood?

To begin with, the context of Phil. 2:3-9 indicates how Phil. 2:6 should be understood. The context stresses the concept of humility and obedience, and Phil. 2:6 itself is clearly meant as the prime example of this for all Christians. Even The Amplified Bible, for example, translates Phil. 2:3, 5 this way:

"Instead, in the true spirit of humility (lowliness of mind) let each regard the others as better than and superior to himself.... Let this same attitude and purpose and [humble] mind be in you which was in Christ Jesus. - Let Him be your example in humility."

Then that very example of Jesus (Phil. 2:6- is given. - Cf. The New International Dictionary of New Testament Theology, vol. 1, p. 547.

Most trinitarian interpretations of Phil. 2:6, however, do not show Jesus as regarding God as "better than and superior to himself" in the beginning (as the context demands for this example). Most of them, instead, twist that proper example of humility into just the opposite: an example of a person who regards himself already as equal to the Most High, Almighty God ("thought it not robbery to be equal to God". Such an interpretation destroys the very purpose (Phil. 2:3) of Jesus' "example in humility" here.

Paul is not telling us to regard ourselves as equal to others. He is clearly using Jesus as his example to teach that each Christian must, as the very trinitarian Amplified Bible above puts it, "regard others as better than and superior to himself". And yet most trinitarian translations show Jesus doing the very opposite in this "example in humility" for all Christians.

Something, then, is very wrong with the translation of Phil. 2:6 in most trinitarian Bibles. Consider the following:
---------------------------------------...

CONCERNING THE WORD "FORM" [morphe]:

Many trinitarian Bible scholars attempt to force an interpretation of "form" [morphe] that includes the idea of "essence" or "nature." However, even many trinitarian Bible scholars admit:

"Morphe is instanced from Homer onwards and means form in the sense of outward appearance." - The New International Dictionary of New Testament Theology, 1986, Zondervan, p. 705, vol. 1.

Therefore, God, Jesus, and the angels all have the “essence” or “nature” of spirit. This obviously does not make them all equally God! Man, mouse, and canary are certainly not all equally man simply because they all have the same “essence” or “nature” of flesh.

If Paul had intended `nature,' `very essence,' etc., he certainly would not have used a word which means only external appearance (morphe). He would have used one of the words which really mean absolute nature.
---------------------------------------...

CONCERNING THE WORD "HARPAGMOS":

Strong's Exhaustive Concordance (by trinitarian writer and trinitarian publisher) tells us that harpagmos means "plunder" and that it comes from the source word harpazo which means: "to seize ... catch away, pluck, take (by force)." - #725; 726, Abingdon Press, 1974 printing.

And the New American Standard Concordance of the Bible (also by trinitarians) tells us: "harpagmos; from [harpazo]; the act of seizing or the thing seized." And, "harpazo ... to seize, catch up, snatch away." Notice that all have to do with taking something away by force. - # 725; #726, Holman Bible Publ., 1981.

But, in spite of some trinitarians' reasonings and euphemistic renderings, it is clear from the way it was always used in Scripture that harpagmos means either taking something away by force (a verb), or something which has been taken by force (a noun).

Paul certainly wouldn't destroy this example of humility for fellow Christians by saying that Jesus is thinking that it isn't "robbery" (KJV) for him to be equal with the Most High. Besides being a nonsensical statement, it is just the opposite of humility. Instead, to be in harmony with the purpose of Paul's example, we must find a Jesus who regards God as superior to himself and won't give even a moment's thought about attempting to take that most high position himself, but, instead, humbles himself even further.

When even a number of the best trinitarian scholars are willing to admit the actual meaning (or even an equivalent compromise) of harpagmos at Phil. 2:6, it becomes necessary for honest-hearted, truth-seeking individuals to admit that Phil. 2:6 not only does not identify Jesus as God, but that it clearly shows Jesus is not God.

BIBLESPEAKS:
How is Phil. 2:6 Meant to Be Understood?

To begin with, the context of Phil. 2:3-9 indicates how Phil. 2:6 should be understood. The context stresses the concept of humility and obedience, and Phil. 2:6 itself is clearly meant as the prime example of this for all Christians. Even The Amplified Bible, for example, translates Phil. 2:3, 5 this way:

"Instead, in the true spirit of humility (lowliness of mind) let each regard the others as better than and superior to himself.... Let this same attitude and purpose and [humble] mind be in you which was in Christ Jesus. - Let Him be your example in humility."

Then that very example of Jesus (Phil. 2:6- is given. - Cf. The New International Dictionary of New Testament Theology, vol. 1, p. 547.

Most trinitarian interpretations of Phil. 2:6, however, do not show Jesus as regarding God as "better than and superior to himself" in the beginning (as the context demands for this example). Most of them, instead, twist that proper example of humility into just the opposite: an example of a person who regards himself already as equal to the Most High, Almighty God ("thought it not robbery to be equal to God". Such an interpretation destroys the very purpose (Phil. 2:3) of Jesus' "example in humility" here.

Paul is not telling us to regard ourselves as equal to others. He is clearly using Jesus as his example to teach that each Christian must, as the very trinitarian Amplified Bible above puts it, "regard others as better than and superior to himself". And yet most trinitarian translations show Jesus doing the very opposite in this "example in humility" for all Christians.

Something, then, is very wrong with the translation of Phil. 2:6 in most trinitarian Bibles. Consider the following:
---------------------------------------...

CONCERNING THE WORD "FORM" [morphe]:

Many trinitarian Bible scholars attempt to force an interpretation of "form" [morphe] that includes the idea of "essence" or "nature." However, even many trinitarian Bible scholars admit:

"Morphe is instanced from Homer onwards and means form in the sense of outward appearance." - The New International Dictionary of New Testament Theology, 1986, Zondervan, p. 705, vol. 1.

Therefore, God, Jesus, and the angels all have the “essence” or “nature” of spirit. This obviously does not make them all equally God! Man, mouse, and canary are certainly not all equally man simply because they all have the same “essence” or “nature” of flesh.

If Paul had intended `nature,' `very essence,' etc., he certainly would not have used a word which means only external appearance (morphe). He would have used one of the words which really mean absolute nature.
---------------------------------------...

CONCERNING THE WORD "HARPAGMOS":

Strong's Exhaustive Concordance (by trinitarian writer and trinitarian publisher) tells us that harpagmos means "plunder" and that it comes from the source word harpazo which means: "to seize ... catch away, pluck, take (by force)." - #725; 726, Abingdon Press, 1974 printing.

And the New American Standard Concordance of the Bible (also by trinitarians) tells us: "harpagmos; from [harpazo]; the act of seizing or the thing seized." And, "harpazo ... to seize, catch up, snatch away." Notice that all have to do with taking something away by force. - # 725; #726, Holman Bible Publ., 1981.

But, in spite of some trinitarians' reasonings and euphemistic renderings, it is clear from the way it was always used in Scripture that harpagmos means either taking something away by force (a verb), or something which has been taken by force (a noun).

Paul certainly wouldn't destroy this example of humility for fellow Christians by saying that Jesus is thinking that it isn't "robbery" (KJV) for him to be equal with the Most High. Besides being a nonsensical statement, it is just the opposite of humility. Instead, to be in harmony with the purpose of Paul's example, we must find a Jesus who regards God as superior to himself and won't give even a moment's thought about attempting to take that most high position himself, but, instead, humbles himself even further.

When even a number of the best trinitarian scholars are willing to admit the actual meaning (or even an equivalent compromise) of harpagmos at Phil. 2:6, it becomes necessary for honest-hearted, truth-seeking individuals to admit that Phil. 2:6 not only does not identify Jesus as God, but that it clearly shows Jesus is not God.

you said the morphe means outwards appearance and the it talks about the spirit . so angels have the same appearance with God.if that is so angels are equal with in appearance?
I explained that verse . Paul was talking about humility.
but verse six is in two parts.
the first part
WHO BEING IN THE FORM (APPEARANCE) WITH GOD ....
why is this verse hard for you to understand. Paul says he had the form of God but you want to remove that part . BEING in that verse is in the PRESENT ACTIVE PARTICIPLE meaning it can be translated as a present continuous action.
Second part said
THOUGHT IT NOT ROBBERY TO BE EQUAL WITH GOD.
kjv doesn't bring the real meaning of the word robbery.
Remember paul is teaching about humility.
Paul is not saying jesus will rob God if he claims equality with God because that will contradict part one of the verse
the word HARPAGAMOS means to seize , to retain at all costs.
Jesus didn't see this equality as something that must be retained at all cost.
The next verse says he took the form of a servant. That is humility.
Amplified version
WHO ALTHOUGH BEING ESSENTIALLY ONE WITH GOD AND IN THE FORM OF GOD ( POSSESSING THE FULLNESS OF THE ATTRIBUTES WHICH MAKES GOD GOD) DID NOT THINK THIS EQUALITY WITH GOD WAS A THING TO BE EAGERLY GRASPED OR RETAINED
7) BUT STRIPPED HIMSELF (OF ALL PRIVILEGES AND RIGHTFUL DIGNITY) SO AS TO ASSUME THE GUISE OF A SERVANT (SLAVE) IN THAT HE BECAME LIKE MEN AND WAS BORN A HUMAN BEING.

HE WAS EQUAL WITH GOD BUT HE DIDN'T SEE IT AS SOMETHING THAT MUST BE RETAINED BECAUSE HE WAS GOING TO TAKE THE FORM OF A SERVANT. THAT WAS WHY HE CALLED IT HUMILITY

Emusan:


Ok you agree that this verse placed Jesus in EQUALITY with the Father, right?

Yep.

oprajo:

you said the morphe means outwards appearance and the it talks about the spirit . so angels have the same appearance with God.if that is so angels are equal with in appearance?
I explained that verse . Paul was talking about humility.
but verse six is in two parts.
the first part
WHO BEING IN THE FORM (APPEARANCE) WITH GOD ....
why is this verse hard for you to understand. Paul says he had the form of God but you want to remove that part . BEING in that verse is in the PRESENT ACTIVE PARTICIPLE meaning it can be translated as a present continuous action.
Second part said
THOUGHT IT NOT ROBBERY TO BE EQUAL WITH GOD.
kjv doesn't bring the real meaning of the word robbery.
Remember paul is teaching about humility.
Paul is not saying jesus will rob God if he claims equality with God because that will contradict part one of the verse
the word HARPAGAMOS means to seize , to retain at all costs.
Jesus didn't see this equality as something that must be retained at all cost.
The next verse says he took the form of a servant. That is humility.
Amplified version
WHO ALTHOUGH BEING ESSENTIALLY ONE WITH GOD AND IN THE FORM OF GOD ( POSSESSING THE FULLNESS OF THE ATTRIBUTES WHICH MAKES GOD GOD) DID NOT THINK THIS EQUALITY WITH GOD WAS A THING TO BE EAGERLY GRASPED OR RETAINED
7) BUT STRIPPED HIMSELF (OF ALL PRIVILEGES AND RIGHTFUL DIGNITY) SO AS TO ASSUME THE GUISE OF A SERVANT (SLAVE) IN THAT HE BECAME LIKE MEN AND WAS BORN A HUMAN BEING.

HE WAS EQUAL WITH GOD BUT HE DIDN'T SEE IT AS SOMETHING THAT MUST BE RETAINED BECAUSE HE WAS GOING TO TAKE THE FORM OF A SERVANT. THAT WAS WHY HE CALLED IT HUMILITY

"Morphe" simply means outward appearance. Jesus has the same outward appearance with his father, he has the same outward appearance with the angelic creatures of the heaven. They are all spirits, a higher form of life to our flesh. Its like sayn a man and a mouse are of the same outward appearance because they have a fleshly appearance. Dsnt make the mouse a man.

So jesus although being in the same outward appearance with God, did not consider equality with God as something to be grasped. Its quite unlike the angel that later became satan, who has God's outward appearance(a spirit) and he went on to covert the worship that belonged to God. But jesus humbled hímself and took on a fleshly body and died a shameful death.

This is the explantion that is consistent with the context of phil 2:3-9 because it borders on humily. To say that jesus considered it not robbery to be equal to God would be to go out of context, and the point paul was making would be missed.

d key is in vs 5 wer xtains are told to hav a similar attitude wit christ.if christ is equal to God then dt means paul was encouraging christains to do d same
.

oprajo:
you will understand that verse better if you read the previous verse and the next . verse 6 is in two parts . part one says
who BEING IN THE FORM OF GOD.
the bible didn't deny jesus didn't have the form of God. Some people when they want to explain this verse quickly ignore this part .
The word " FORM" is from a greek Word " MORPHE " where you get the word " MORPHOLOGY" from. morphology means form , shape , structure, appearance, nature. meaning jesus had the same form , appearance, shape and nature with God he is not talking about Jesus being a spirit because angels are also spirits. let me quote a better translation that shows the true meaning of the word FORM.
AMPLIFIED VERSION
PHILIPPIANS 2:6
who although being essentially one with God and in the form of God (POSSESSING THE FULLNESS OF THE ATTRIBUTES WHICH MAKES GOD GOD ) .........
the part in bracket explains the word form. Jesus was equal with God in form , shape , appearance and having everything that makes the father God.
PART two of that verse
thought it not robbery to be equal with God.
king James version used two key words in understanding this part which are ROBBERY AND EQUAL.
ROBBERY is from a greek Word " HARPAGAMOS" which means to hold to something forcefully in other to retain it.
EQUAL. is a word " ISOS " which means equal to .

This part is saying that this equality with God jesus didn't see it as something that must be retained at all cost. You may ask why? the next verse says why . the previous verse talks about ATTITUDE.
a better translation for the second part
AMPLIFIED VERSION
.........DID NOT THINK THIS EQUALITY WITH GOD WAS A THING TO BE GRASPED OR RETAINED.
because in coming to the world Jesus took the form of a man. The verse doesn't deny his equality with God but tells us that he didn't see it as something to be retained by all means because he was coming to earth.

God bless you for that. What church do you attend if I may ask,

taiwoawoniyi:
God bless you for that. What church do you attend if I may ask,

RIGHTEOUSNESS FOR ALL NATIONS

BIBLESPEAKS:


"Morphe" simply means outward appearance. Jesus has the same outward appearance with his father, he has the same outward appearance with the angelic creatures of the heaven. They are all spirits, a higher form of life to our flesh. Its like sayn a man and a mouse are of the same outward appearance because they have a fleshly appearance. Dsnt make the mouse a man.

So jesus although being in the same outward appearance with God, did not consider equality with God as something to be grasped. Its quite unlike the angel that later became satan, who has God's outward appearance(a spirit) and he went on to covert the worship that belonged to God. But jesus humbled hímself and took on a fleshly body and died a shameful death.

This is the explantion that is consistent with the context of phil 2:3-9 because it borders on humily. To say that jesus considered it not robbery to be equal to God would be to go out of context, and the point paul was making would be missed.

so man and mouse have the same outward appearance. funny. DO YOU KNOW WHAT AN APPEARANCE IS ?
if jesus has the same outward appearance with angels as you said meaning angels have the same appearance with God. that is so incorrect because even among the angels they don't all have the same outward appearance. example CHERUBIMS AND SERAPHIMS .saying that angels have the same outward appearance with God is saying God is like an angel with wings which is incorrect. Jesus said he that seen me had seen the father and jesus is the only person with the same appearance the father. so the outward appearance as you said is not the only way to translate that word . Other words that can be used are SHAPE , STRUCTURE. Jesus has the same STRUCTURE NOT JUST APPEARANCE WITH THE FATHER . THAT IS WHY HE COULD BE THE IMAGE OF GOD. WHEN YOU LOOK INTO THE MIRROR THE IMAGE YOU SEE IS IT NOT THE SAME APPEARANCE SHAPE AND STRUCTURE YOU SEE. if jesus is in the same outward appearance with God which as you said is him being a spirit snd doesn't decide to grasp equality with God . meaning as you say he isn't EQUAL with God SO WHERE IS THE HUMILITY BECAUSE HUMILITY MEANS VOLUNTARY SELF ABASEMENT. THAT IS TO SEE YOUR SELF LOWER THAN YOU SHOULD BE. IF I HAVE A BOSS THOUGH WE BOTH HAVE THE SAME OUTWARD APPEARANCE WE ARE NOT EQUAL SO WILL YOU SAY ME WORKING UNDER HER MEANS I AM HUMBLE ? NO BECAUSE I OUGHT TO WORK UNDER HER ANY THING ELSE IS PRIDE OR WILL YOU SAY THAT THE VICE PRESIDENT IS BEING HUMBLE SERVING UNDER THE PRESIDENT NO HE OUGHT TO SERVE UNDER THE PRESIDENT. THAT WAS THE CONDITION OF THE LUCIFER BUT NOT THE SAME WITH JESUS. FOR EXAMPLE
IF MR A AND MR B HAVE 50 % EACH OF THE SHARES OF A COMPANY .
THEY ARE EQUAL BUT IF MR B DECIDES AND TELLS MR A TO BE THE HEAD THAT IS HUMILITY. THAT WAS THE CASE OF JESUS

BIBLESPEAKS:
How is Phil. 2:6 Meant to Be Understood?

And your own explanation never does this either.

To begin with, the context of Phil. 2:3-9 indicates how Phil. 2:6 should be understood. The context stresses the concept of humility and obedience, and Phil. 2:6 itself is clearly meant as the prime example of this for all Christians. Even The Amplified Bible, for example, translates Phil. 2:3, 5 this way:

We know the verse is talking about humility but the actual point you miss is what NATURE does Jesus exist before He humble Himself to assume the nature of a slave?

When even a number of the best trinitarian scholars are willing to admit the actual meaning (or even an equivalent compromise) of harpagmos at Phil. 2:6, it becomes necessary for honest-hearted, truth-seeking individuals to admit that Phil. 2:6 not only does not identify Jesus as God, but that it clearly shows Jesus is not God.

The verse doesn't say Jesus IS GOD but my question is DOES THE VERSE PLACE JESUS IN EQUALITY WITH GOD
So to you does the verse say Jesus is equal to God?

Electr1csh0ck:
d key is in vs 5 wer xtains are told to hav a similar attitude wit christ.if christ is equal to God then dt means paul was encouraging christains to do d same.

You're wrong Paul wasn't encouraging Christian to be equal to God if Christ is EQUAL to God what He was saying is for Christ who is EQUAL to God to leave such POSITION and HONOR and humble Himself to assume the position of a slave, THEN the Christians should emulate His HUMILITY...NOT as you interpreted it...

Emusan:

We know the verse is talking about humility but the actual point you miss is what NATURE does Jesus exist before He humble Himself to assume the nature of a slave?

In heaven, jesus' form, his essence, his morphe(which is "outward appearance"is spirit. The bible makes that clear when it says "flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God" - 1cor 15:42-50

"Christ also died for our sins once for all...being put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit" - 1pet 3:18

The Bible identifies two forms of bodies(outward appearance). 1cor 15:44 says: "if there is a physical(material) body, there is also a spiritual(immaterial) one."


The form of life that exists in heaven is the spirit form. God has that form too, for the Bible says: "God is a spirit" -
john 4:24

Therefore, God, Jesus, and the angels all have the “essence” or “nature” of spirit. This obviously does not make them all equally God!

the name [‘angel’] does not denote their nature [just as the title ‘God’ or ‘god’ does not necessarily denote one’s nature], but their office. As to their nature, they are spirits.

It is such a privilege for spirit creatures to exist in the very form or essence of God. So phil 2:6,7 says of jesus' humility: "although existing in God's form, did not consider equality to God as something to be grasped. But took a slaves form and being in human likeness.

oprajo:

so man and mouse have the same outward appearance. funny. DO YOU KNOW WHAT AN APPEARANCE IS ?
if jesus has the same outward appearance with angels as you said meaning angels have the same appearance with God. that is so incorrect because even among the angels they don't all have the same outward appearance. example CHERUBIMS AND SERAPHIMS .saying that angels have the same outward appearance with God is saying God is like an angel with wings which is incorrect. Jesus said he that seen me had seen the father and jesus is the only person with the same appearance the father. so the outward appearance as you said is not the only way to translate that word . Other words that can be used are SHAPE , STRUCTURE. Jesus has the same STRUCTURE NOT JUST APPEARANCE WITH THE FATHER . THAT IS WHY HE COULD BE THE IMAGE OF GOD. WHEN YOU LOOK INTO THE MIRROR THE IMAGE YOU SEE IS IT NOT THE SAME APPEARANCE SHAPE AND STRUCTURE YOU SEE. if jesus is in the same outward appearance with God which as you said is him being a spirit snd doesn't decide to grasp equality with God . meaning as you say he isn't EQUAL with God SO WHERE IS THE HUMILITY BECAUSE HUMILITY MEANS VOLUNTARY SELF ABASEMENT

"Morphe" is agreed by nearly all Bible scholars as meaning "outward appearance." All men have the same outward appearance, the same outward make up. We are all made of flesh. Robots mosttimes are recognised by their outward appearance, they are not flesh. They are machines and you could see it.
By saying morphe with relation to man, it means flesh, because that's our nature. While with relation to Heaven, it is spirit. God is a spirit - john 4:24. Jesus after he died and was raised, ascended to heaven as a spirit, the Angels are spirit creatures.
God is no different in nature with Jesus and the Angels because they are all in a spirit form. God is God not because of his form but because of his creatorship. Jesus is "the son" not because of his nature but because of he being begotten by his father, the Angels are Angels not because of their nature but because of office as messengers of God.

Everyone in heaven have a form, one form, one nature and that is spirit.

Jesus humility is seen in that although being in the same nature with God(by virtue of him being a spirit), did not consider equality to God as something to be grasped, but humbled himself by taking a fleshly body and dying a shameful death.

BIBLESPEAKS:


In heaven, jesus' form, his essence, his morphe(which is "outward appearance" is spirit. The bible makes that clear when it says "flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God" - 1cor 15:42-50

"Christ also died for our sins once for all...being put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit" - 1pet 3:18

The Bible identifies two forms of bodies(outward appearance). 1cor 15:44 says: "if there is a physical(material) body, there is also a spiritual(immaterial) one."


The form of life that exists in heaven is the spirit form. God has that form too, for the Bible says: "God is a spirit" -john 4:24

You're still confused.

Therefore, God, Jesus, and the angels all have the “essence” or “nature” of spirit. [size=14pt]This obviously does not make them all equally God![/size]

The bolded part is the purpose of this thread, and it's very obvious that the bolded is a pure lie from the pit of hell according the Phil 2:6.

the name [‘angel’] does not denote their nature [just as the title ‘God’ or ‘god’ does not necessarily denote one’s nature], but their office. As to their nature, they are spirits.

is such a privilege for spirit creatures to exist in the very form or essence of God. So phil 2:6,7 says of jesus' humility: "although existing in God's form, did not consider equality to God as something to be grasped. But took a slaves form and being in human likeness.

You're still re-quoting the same verse with confuse mind.

Did the verse say Jesus is EQUAL to God? Yes or No! and stop beating around the bush.

I know your problem is the rendering of that verse by some translations.