Sky Blue:

So securing of businesses is not in the people's interest? How do you reckon?

Don’t put words in my mouth please. Never said it is not in the people’s interest, but I am sure I am clear in my stating that it is not the same as securing the people. Securing businesses is not same as providing security to the people. Two completely different issues here.

Sky Blue:

So if the security of such areas where businesses are mainly located (eg the CBD) improves and investors from all over the place know there property and businesses can be prepared, won't that attract more investors into lagos?

We can speculate on the “May-be”s , but I would rather we stick to what we know of today. Again, securing businesses is not same as securing the people. Whether this will attract investors or not is yet to be seen.

Sky Blue:

Is that not all part of creating a better "environment" for businesses to flourish and thrive? At the end of the day if more busineeses move in and invest and there is expansionand greater commercialisation in lagos won't the citizens benefit?

Usually, one would expect the government to put the issues that directly affect the people first and that that affects companies later. That is why we have States and communities that are run like corporations where the citizens are shareholders. Not sure that is even close to the case in Lagos. Also need to point out here that the last thing I would want to have is a government that pays more attention to the private companies and less to directly solving the problems the people are facing.

Now when we talk of investments and businesses moving in, we have learnt that expansion does not necessarily mean better life for the people. So I still think we need to keep to reality rather than speculate here.

Sky Blue:

Won't such mean more jobs and more tax from more businesses for lagos state?

From recent history in lagos, we already know that more jobs does not mean better security or better living conditions for the people of Lagos. We have bankers now and stock traders who live in face-2-face. We have people who still get less than 2 hours of electricity each day and sleep with one eye open but they work in banks and so on.

Sky Blue:

Isn't CCTV all part of the infrastructure of making lagos more attractive to investors and businesses and hence a way of attracting more inestment, jobs and economic growth to the state? And the citizens won't benefit from such?

Again, CCTV has always been in Lagos. Banks from Ikorodu to VI already had CCTV installed. Not sure why you are pushing this as something new. However, linking it all up to a main database is new and could help in better securing those companies. Note, many of these companies already have private security forces to help them in securing their property.

In terms of jobs, likely the citizens will benefit but that does not in any way eliminate the basic needs which remain missing; basic needs including need for security. If I work at a bank that has CCTV linked to the database, am I secure when I step out of the company’s property to go back to my home where there is no CCTV and no electricity?

Sky Blue:

We read thesame article right? In the article it says CISCO is an international IT firm, so what leads you to speculate wether such will do investigations?

You mentioned the images from the camera’s will be used for investigations and I was wondering who in this case will work on doing that. Cisco? Or Hisbah or the same Nigerian police with next to no training and still inadequate?

must_a_far:

there is a lot more to this CCTV experiment than they are allowing us access to. the reasons given, the facts we have to work with have lapses. non of the info given by the govt says anything about the support system for this CCTV cRAp. the govt might have good intention but the intentions are not towards the general public. they say private companies install it, and its connected to a database. what kinda businesses/private companies would require a CCTV camera installed. lets assume its our priority, it still doesnt look right considering what we know as fact.

simple gibberish, until more facts(detailed) about the project are provided to us lets stop all this NONSENSE ASSUMING we have been assuming already. one minute it is a private project, the next minute its govt building its control center, next minute private companies install it on their premises, next minute government monitors the cameras bought by the private companies, next minute private companies do the monitoring and govt would have access to it whenever the need it. until some of these are pretty spelt out as ABC the project is as good as watching 24 (the new season is on fire by the way)

Assuming only leads to a whole bunch of BullManure

My point exactly!

B.O.S.S.:

You seem to forget that (if you read from page 1 or thereabout), that was my question to Fashola when we were online (on Sunday through the chat with KoboJunkie andSkyBlue) that we want poverty alleviation first or the better functioning of the police rather than the CCTV but he said “CCTV is not fully a government initiative but a co-operation of the government and the private sectors”. So all this CCTV this CCTV that means jack shit because he only wants to protect the companies and not the people.

Lucabrasi, as much as I like to read your post and most times I agree while sometimes I disagree (which is normal I suppose), why are you still supporting Fashola and basing your fact on hear say rather than we (myself, KoboJunkie andSkyBlue) hearing from the horse’s mouth that the CCTV is what I said above.

CCTV IS NOT FOR THE SAFETY OF THE CITIZENS BUT FOR THE SAFETY OF THE COMPANIES THAT WOULD BE BANKROLLING IT.

At least I pasted it on here though you didn’t join us for the chat on Sunday.

to be honest i cant base my stance or the way i see issues round what you guys might have discussed with fashola as i view issues by simple benefit analysis,i sincerely hope you r not suggesting to me that i should abandon any individual or independent though process to summarily agree with you based on your dicussions with fashola?

will dismissing what might haver transpired in the chat with fashola as it is of no conscequence to me or what my assertions are,tell me where i am not making sense and i will gladly correct myself

1.your infferring that cctv is for the profit of the private companies involved,did ou read the article above?

a)it will be installed in blacks spots, meaning crimes like one chance,vandalism of government  property,muggings and rapes, kidnapps and ritual killings e.t.c will have a fighting chance of being monitored, if you are familiar with criminal behavior, ill suggest you flick through the chicago school, criminals who operate in an area do so regularly i.e they wont operate in ikeja today then migrate to victoria island, they tend to stick to their regular watering holes,especially the types of crime i v listed above,meaning the cctv will capture the major and minor criminals in these black spots and they ll be easier to aprehend,
also imagine the countl;ess cases of ritual killings and kidnappings,are you saying the cctv will not prove as a deterrent?
no matter how much it costs,within reason,if it saves a couple of lives and makes the life of traders who are robbed regularly easier,has it not justified the cost?

as long as cctv can prevent lagosians from being victims of these crimes,then its money well spent,like i said before, ill re iterate that if you have been a victim of robbery of any sort or seen families whose daughter was raped while coming from a night vigil walking on a dark road or parents whose son or daughter was kidnapped and to this day the police have no leads because they simply cant put a face to the crime or where he/she was last seen, then you ll realise how important it is,

there was no need for me to chat with fashola as i follow whats happening in lagos and the govt both negatives and positives and dont need fashola to tell me,moreover while his intentions are honourable,he wouldnt come online to catalogue government policies that has not being rcompletely rolled out

roflmao!!!

Morons -

Obama said - "We can do it" - he made it

In Nigeria - they say " We cant do it because we are black and stupid"

Shame.

must_a_far:

there is a lot more to this CCTV experiment than they are allowing us access to. the reasons given, the facts we have to work with have lapses. non of the info given by the govt says anything about the support system for this CCTV cRAp. the govt might have good intention but the intentions are not towards the general public. they say private companies install it, and its connected to a database. what kinda businesses/private companies would require a CCTV camera installed. lets assume its our priority, it still doesnt look right considering what we know as fact.


simple gibberish, until more facts(detailed) about the project are provided to us lets stop all this NONSENSE ASSUMING we have been assuming already. one minute it is a private project, the next minute its govt building its control center, next minute private companies install it on their premises, next minute government monitors the cameras bought by the private companies, next minute private companies do the monitoring and govt would have access to it whenever the need it. until some of these are pretty spelt out as ABC the project is as good as watching 24 (the new season is on fire by the way)

Assuming only leads to a whole bunch of BullManure

so because yopu havent been given enough information you have concluded that theres more to it?
what other details do you want that you have not being given,its a private and government funded initiative,to be installed in black spots where crimes occur,it will prevent crimes and save the lives of lagosians including businesses does the small details matter?

or are you saying the lives of lagosians factor less than the nity gritty of private or public or details involved?
who do you think are the most victims of crimes in lagos?
you think the man living in bourdillon road ikoyi with his multi layered security will be visited by armed robbers or the man living in a 3 bed flat in surulere??
common now,lets be honest and objective.
in case you dont know hopw the cctv technology works,google it online,its one of the simplest from of media technology,from my rudimentary and basic experience so its not like nuclear physics or something,i bet youan average nigerian individual will sucessfully operate the banks of monitors after a short training

lucabrasi:

to be honest i cant base my stance or the way i see issues round what you guys might have discussed with fashola as i view issues by simple benefit analysis,i sincerely hope you r not suggesting to me that i should abandon any individual or independent though process to summarily agree with you based on your dicussions with fashola?

Of course not

lucabrasi:

will dismissing what might haver transpired in the chat with fashola as it is of no conscequence to me or what my assertions are,tell me where i am not making sense and i will gladly correct myself

1.your infferring that cctv is for the profit of the private companies involved,did ou read the article above?

a)it will be installed in blacks spots, meaning crimes like one chance,vandalism of government  property,muggings and rapes, kidnapps and ritual killings e.t.c will have a fighting chance of being monitored, if you are familiar with criminal behavior, ill suggest you flick through the chicago school, criminals who operate in an area do so regularly i.e they wont operate in ikeja today then migrate to victoria island, they tend to stick to their regular watering holes,especially the types of crime i v listed above,meaning the cctv will capture the major and minor criminals in these black spots and they ll be easier to aprehend,
also imagine the countl;ess cases of ritual killings and kidnappings,are you saying the cctv will not prove as a deterrent?
no matter how much it costs,within reason,if it saves a couple of lives and makes the life of traders who are robbed regularly easier,has it not justified the cost?

as long as cctv can prevent lagosians from being victims of these crimes,then its money well spent,like i said before, ill re iterate that if you have been a victim of robbery of any sort or seen families whose daughter was raped while coming from a night vigil walking on a dark road or parents whose son or daughter was kidnapped and to this day the police have no leads because they simply cant put a face to the crime or where he/she was last seen, then you ll realise how important it is,

there was no need for me to chat with fashola as i follow whats happening in lagos and the govt both negatives and positives and dont need fashola to tell me,moreover while his intentions are honourable,he wouldnt come online to catalogue government policies that has not being rcompletely rolled out

To be honest you're making a lot of sense but mot of your posts are just mere predictions and assertions. Though you're choosing to listen to the newspaper report and ignoring what came out of the horse's mouth.

No stress. I hear you. But know that you cannot compare Manchester and Lagos sha.

must_a_far:

sorry for my previous rant, but is the CCTV for businesses or are they to monitor activity in public places like motor parks, markets, in short public spaces in general. cos nothing as indicated precisely where and what is being monitored to provide the extra needed security boost.

for crime "blackspots"meaning places where crimes are rpone to take place, an example from the definition and context is third mainland bridge where you r almost sure of being mugged if your car breaks down,with this initiative,someone will quickly see whats happening and alert the police, with some cctvs in uk here,they have an hidden microphone where you are warned not to drop litter ro anything untoward

Kobojunkie:

Don’t put words in my mouth please. Never said it is not in the people’s interest, but I am sure I am clear in my stating that it is not the same as securing the people. Securing businesses is not same as providing security to the people. Two completely different issues here.

We can speculate on the “May-be”s , but I would rather we stick to what we know of today. Again, securing businesses is not same as securing the people. Whether this will attract investors or not is yet to be seen.


Usually, one would expect the government to put the issues that directly affect the people first and that that affects companies later. That is why we have States and communities that are run like corporations where the citizens are shareholders. Not sure that is even close to the case in Lagos. Also need to point out here that the last thing I would want to have is a government that pays more attention to the private companies and less to directly solving the problems the people are facing.

Now when we talk of investments and businesses moving in, we have learnt that expansion does not necessarily mean better life for the people. So I still think we need to keep to reality rather than speculate here.


From recent history in lagos, we already know that more jobs does not mean better security or better living conditions for the people of Lagos. We have bankers now and stock traders who live in face-2-face. We have people who still get less than 2 hours of electricity each day and sleep with one eye open but they work in banks and so on.


Again, CCTV has always been in Lagos. Banks from Ikorodu to VI already had CCTV installed. Not sure why you are pushing this as something new. However, linking it all up to a main database is new and could help in better securing those companies. Note, many of these companies already have private security forces to help them in securing their property.

In terms of jobs, likely the citizens will benefit but that does not in any way eliminate the basic needs which remain missing; basic needs including need for security. If I work at a bank that has CCTV linked to the database, am I secure when I step out of the company’s property to go back to my home where there is no CCTV and no electricity?

You mentioned the images from the camera’s will be used for investigations and I was wondering who in this case will work on doing that. Cisco? Or Hisbah or the same Nigerian police with next to no training and still inadequate?

Well, the "May-bes" seem to be coming from more than one camp  . Isn't assuming that securing businesses wouldn't necessary lead to business expansion etc a "may-be" on your path as well? If you look at international market ratings of the Nigerian economy, it has been stated numerous times that Nigeria has a huge market to give good returns to investors but it is seen as a high risk market because of political instability, corruption and insecurity of both economic investments via policies and security of the businesses themselves during operation. The group that built the palms shopping mall in Lagos made very huge returns on their investments within months. As well as providing a service for a market that was already existing, it created jobs for people etc. Creating jobs to me is a "basic ammenity" as you would call it because it provides people with an income. Does such not directly affect the people?

You bring up the issue of electricity yet again when i am sure you know it isn't so straight foward due to the present system whereby states are not allowed to provide electricity for just themselves. I am not trying to sell CCTV in lagos as a novel idea, but you keep on referring to it as 'government advertising'. Has there ever been co-ordination of such CCTV systems before? I just don't get the sudden shock at the scheme not being primarily geared towards citizen protection when you consider that there was a lot of speculation on nairaland and a lot of the funds are not coming from the government but from the private sector and on top of that jobs are going to be created.

And then again, the perception that this is the only thing being focused on in lagos at the moment. Refer to @lucabrasi's previous post. Does providing CCTV for businesses who won't likely turn down the opportunity to get better protection for themselves mean other issues are not being tackled? Are fixing CCTV and say - tackling problems in the educational sector mutually exclusive? For something as basic as improved security for businesses which i deem very important and even vital to expanding the commercial sector and creating more jobs and attracting more businesses and growth, i really don't see what the big deal is especially when most of the funds is not coming from the government and jobs are being created. I mean, what's the problem?  

@Lucabrasi


Why do you bother with these retrogressive peeps?

a)it will be installed in blacks spots, meaning crimes like one chance,vandalism of government  property,muggings and rapes, kidnapps and ritual killings e.t.c will have a fighting chance of being monitored, if you are familiar with criminal behavior, ill suggest you flick through the chicago school, criminals who operate in an area do so regularly i.e they wont operate in ikeja today then migrate to victoria island, they tend to stick to their regular watering holes,especially the types of crime i v listed above,meaning the cctv will capture the major and minor criminals in these black spots and they ll be easier to aprehend,
also imagine the countl;ess cases of ritual killings and kidnappings,are you saying the cctv will not prove as a deterrent?
no matter how much it costs,within reason,if it saves a couple of lives and makes the life of traders who are robbed regularly easier,has it not justified the cost?
as long as cctv can prevent lagosians from being victims of these crimes,then its money well spent,like i said before, ill re iterate that if you have been a victim of robbery of any sort or seen families whose daughter was raped while coming from a night vigil walking on a dark road or parents whose son or daughter was kidnapped and to this day the police have no leads because they simply cant put a face to the crime or where he/she was last seen, then you ll realise how important it is,

on an awesome day, that which u have stated above is what the CCTV should do. but when they start making mention of private businesses installing, without defining what a "private business" is? they simply gave reason for a detour to my line of thought.

For the most part the reasons we have all given for the projects success are entirely based on ASSUMPTIONS we all made.

must_a_far:




on an awesome day, that which u have stated above is what the CCTV should do. but when they start making mention of private businesses installing, without defining what a "private business" is? they simply gave reason for a detour to my line of thought.

For the most part the reasons we have all given for the projects success are entirely based on ASSUMPTIONS we all made.

And the reasons you have given for the project not to suceed are entirely based on what? on very warped and meaningless assumptions.

must_a_far:




on an awesome day, that which u have stated above is what the CCTV should do. but when they start making mention of private businesses installing, without defining what a "private business" is? they simply gave reason for a detour to my line of thought.

For the most part the reasons we have all given for the projects success are entirely based on ASSUMPTIONS we all made.

Are you also willing to accept that the failures you assume will occir with regards to the CCTV project are also based on assumptions on your path as well?

must_a_far:

For the most part the reasons we have all given for the projects success are entirely based on ASSUMPTIONS we all made.

Not just assumptions though. It's unfortunate that i_laugh and lucabrsi weren't here on Sunday to read what Fashola himsaid said regarding privates and govt operating the CCTV together. But afterall, Lucabrasi said he didn't need to be there while he's assuming and supporting the press' reports.

B.O.S.S.:




To be honest you're making a lot of sense but mot of your posts are just mere predictions and assertions. Though you're choosing to listen to the newspaper report and ignoring what came out of the horse's mouth.

No stress. I hear you. But know that you cannot compare Manchester and Lagos sha.

okie help me out here what is predictions in these crimes

1.kidnap of prostitutes,children e.t.c for rituals which as you and i know has been happening without any of the crimes being solved

2.muggings along the third mainland bridge if your car breaks down or along that western avenue to island route in the night

3.removing government installations like electric cables,aluminium barriers in the bridges,halogens in the street lights

4.car snatching,illegal road blocks by armed robbers dressing as policemen(new style of robbery in lagos now)

to conclude,out of all these categories of crimes,who do you reckon are more likely to be victims across the board?
the rich and priviledged or the average lagosians?be honest with this answer then re think it again if cctv  is a bad initiative,
even wonderboy obama contradicts himself,talk less of fashola who isnt squeky clean, ill advice you not to take his words as gospel, he is a politician and nothing is stopping him from changing tmorrow,lagos is different from manchester the more reason why we need some sort of crime detterent, do you know that in some parts of lagos,ppl will rob you and still lounge in that area because they know nothing is going to happen?

lucabrasi:

for crime "blackspots"meaning places where crimes are rpone to take place, an example from the definition and context is third mainland bridge where you r almost sure of being mugged if your car breaks down,with this initiative,someone will quickly see whats happening and alert the police, with some cctvs in uk here,they have an hidden microphone where you are warned not to drop litter ro anything untoward

i agree with you that blackspots are mainly where the cameras would be required. wat about public places like idumota or ojuelegba where there are always people present at all times of the day. yet your bag is snatched at high noon. it is easy to assume that the devices would be placed where human eyes cant always be. but nothing supports that assumption from the facts provided by the authorities.

nowhere has it been stated where exactly the cams are going to be placed. people coming up with installing it on the premises of businesses and what not makes it seem like ^&*)*%$##^ (make that mean whatever u feel bests fills that gap)

B.O.S.S.:

Not just assumptions though. It's unfortunate that i_laugh and lucabrsi weren't here on Sunday to read what Fashola himsaid said regarding privates and govt operating the CCTV together. But afterall, Lucabrasi said he didn't need to be there while he's assuming and supporting the press' reports.

So much has been hinged one "what fashola said", are you willing to base the whole arguement on 2 or so short sentences that supports what has been in articles about the whole issue? If i post the response you speak of will that change things? LOL.
I might as well post the much vaunted reply so we can move on:

TextCast: Fashola, thank you Wale
TextCast: the governor has jyust been askec about cctv]
TextCast: fashola: I don;t agree that we are wasting money on CCTv
TextCast: the biggest challagnes apart form transport are security
TextCast: : We have inadequate number of police officer
TextCast: : for 6 million people
TextCast: : In any event the number of cameras we are putting in will not all be funded by Lagos State gov
TextCast: : we will be providing cameras for anyone, the supplier will install the equipment adn connect someone to teh database
TextCast: : using technology to improve thes security

must_a_far:

i agree with you that blackspots are mainly where the cameras would be required. wat about public places like idumota or ojuelegba where there are always people present at all times of the day. yet your bag is snatched at high noon. it is easy to assume that the devices would be placed where human eyes cant always be. but nothing supports that assumption from the facts provided by the authorities.

nowhere has it been stated where exactly the cams are going to be placed. people coming up with installing it on the premises of businesses and what not makes it seem like ^&*)*%$##^ (make that mean whatever u feel bests fills that gap)

A lot of the "assumptions" was driven by peaople arguing on nairaland without really researching into the issue. Moral of the story, read up on the issue if you are not sure. The locations of the CCTV installations are not being given out on purpose.

i_laugh and sky blue

i had questioned how it would be powered, what support system has been put in place to enable us derive maximum benefits not partial. if from what i said, u were able to see my assumption of its failure then i guess i must be good at this and not know it then.

must_a_far:




on an awesome day, that which u have stated above is what the CCTV should do. but when they start making mention of private businesses installing, without defining what a "private business" is? they simply gave reason for a detour to my line of thought.

For the most part the reasons we have all given for the projects success are entirely based on ASSUMPTIONS we all made.

lets cast aside any side issues here,cctv technology as anyone who has seen it including b.o.s.s. will attest to is a very simple and straight foward technology,so there is little chance of it not working or not capturing the mages it has been programmed to,so what failure are we on about here?
so i dont see any assumptions as we have seen it work,ordinary corner shops here have multi camera cctvs, even private houses,so whats the big deal?
dont be so fixated on the wordings of private or public and focus more on its advantages and perceived benefits,would you rather it was turned over to our inept nigerian police to service and monitor?

B.O.S.S.:

Not just assumptions though. It's unfortunate that i_laugh and lucabrsi weren't here on Sunday to read what Fashola himsaid said regarding privates and govt operating the CCTV together. But afterall, Lucabrasi said he didn't need to be there while he's assuming and supporting the press' reports.

i am not disputing your account of what transpired in the chat session,what i am saying however is that like i have said in my comments above,lets forget about who is funding it but focus on its benefits, shouldnt that be more important?
if fashola has come out to say it will cost 100billion naira,then we all can collectively sit up and say to hell with it,first it is a private and govt funded initiative meaning its not all government funded so whats the trouble? that is why i made the comment earlier if the cost is reasonable,

i also agreed with you that,while he is not doing enough to address pertinent issues i.e education,omo onile and thugs in lagos e.t.c at least he is addressing all these issues,maybe not how we will like him to, remember while you are severely criticising him,the constraints in his way,theres funding cause you seem to think he has unlimited funding or gets more from the government than other states and also what the constitution says about state and federal installations and funding as opposed to roads and other infrastructures, have a flick through the constitution and you ll be pleasantly suprised

must_a_far:

i_laugh and sky blue

i had questioned how it would be powered, what support system has been put in place to enable us derive maximum benefits not partial. if from what i said, u were able to see my assumption of its failure then i guess i must be good at this and not know it then.

At current a good number of street lights in the newly refurbished roads in Lagos are powered from an alternate source and not PHCN and inverters are used. It wouldn't be too difficult to imagine that such could be used as an approach as well. The original idea for the street lights on the BRT corridors was that they would be powered by solar power which is also used in certain roads in port harcourt and other areas of the country, don't know if that is what is being used in the final thing though. I hope if anything this arguement has informed all of things we might not have known. So enough with the numerous speculation, you can research these things.

Sky Blue:

Well, the "May-bes" seem to be coming from more than one camp  . Isn't assuming that securing businesses wouldn't necessary lead to business expansion etc a "may-be" on your path as well?

NO, because most of the banks and businesses in lagos have have CCTV installed for over 15 years now and that has yet to adversely affect security in Lagos. If you have ever been to VI, you would note that most all the properties there have CCTV installed. Has that made VI more secure for the people? Not necessarily.

Sky Blue:

If you look at international market ratings of the Nigerian economy, it has been stated numerous times that Nigeria has a huge market to give good returns to investors but it is seen as a high risk market because of political instability, corruption and insecurity of both economic investments via policies and security of the businesses themselves during operation.

The insecurity that is mentioned above does not necessarily point to securing of investments the way you are trying to make it seem. Corruption is a bigger issue and no amount of CCTV can stop corruption and government “policy changes” that have robbed people of their investments in the past.

On the issue of security, having privately run security is not new in Nigeria, given, this is at a bigger scale and sort of reminds me, again of ADT here, only that this is the state government advertising the idea. Now, there remains the issue of a bad police force. In the past, banks have arrested criminals on their properties, turned them over to the police, only to have them released the next minute. If the company monitored CCTV was not able to stop this, how does a CCTV plugged into what we assume to be stated owned Database solve this problem?  

Sky Blue:

The group that built the palms shopping mall in Lagos made very huge returns on their investments within months. As well as providing a service for a market that was already existing, it created jobs for people etc. Creating jobs to me is a "basic ammenity" as you call it because it provides people with an income. Does such not directly affect the people?

Here is the deal. If you say CCTV by Fashola brings jobs, which sound more meaningful than CCTV by Fashola brings security to Lagos. This so far sounds no different than the signing of a deal with the dish satellite network company from South Africa, to bring Satellite TV to those who can afford it and jobs, simple!

Sky Blue:

You bring up the issue of electricity yet again when i am sure you know it isn't so straight foward due to the present system whereby states are not allowed to provide electricity for just themselves. I am not trying to sell CCTV in lagos it as a novel idea in lagos, but you keep on referring to it as 'government advertising'. Has there ever been co-ordination of such CCTV systems before? I just don't get the sudden shock at the scheme not being primarily geared towards citizen protection when you consider that there was a lot of speculation on nairaland and a lot of the funds are not coming from the government but from the private sector and on top of that jobs are going to be created.

We read from Fashola’s response that AGAIN THE CAMERA’s WILL NOT BE FUNDED BY THE STATE. So, regardless of speculations, the man said NO. Why do you find that hard to accept? The article you posted also pushes this as a private initiative and less government. Another article quotes the man or a rep stating that NO TAX MONEY WILL BE USED FOR THIS. What speculation do you want me to subscribe to now?

Sky Blue:

And then again, the perception that this is the only thing being focused on in lagos at the moment. Refer to @lucabrasi's previous post.

Please stop with the wailing already. Not a single soul has so far said that all other things are at stand still while CCTV is being focused on. Assuming that those with opposing views think that way is sort of ridiculous and in my opinion childish.  

@Lucabrasi, somehow assumes he is the only one “Monitoring” the situation in lagos and so I would rather skip his post as it is not based on facts but more his assumptions on issues and he makes that clear in his post in response to @B.o.s.s.

Sky Blue:

Does providing CCTV for businesses who won't likely turn down the opportunity to get better protection for themselves mean other issues are not being tackled? Are fixing CCTV and say - tackling problems in the educational sector mutually exclusive? For something as basic as improved security for businesses which i deem very important and even vital to expanding the commercial sector and creating more jobs and attracting more businesses and growth, i really don't see what the big deal is especially when most of the funds is not coming from the government and jobs are being created. I mean, what's the problem?  

You can try to sell me the whole CCTV will magically make businesses tackle other issues line or  we can stick to what we know of this and go along with the actual work on ground instead of speculating. I have made myself clear here.

It is not funded currently with Tax payers money.
No where are we told this is to be monitored or organized by Government. Please let us stop trying to blow fairy dust into this and allow it be what it is.

must_a_far:

i agree with you that blackspots are mainly where the cameras would be required. wat about public places like idumota or ojuelegba where there are always people present at all times of the day. yet your bag is snatched at high noon. it is easy to assume that the devices would be placed where human eyes cant always be. but nothing supports that assumption from the facts provided by the authorities.

nowhere has it been stated where exactly the cams are going to be placed. people coming up with installing it on the premises of businesses and what not makes it seem like ^&*)*%$##^ (make that mean whatever u feel bests fills that gap)

like sky blue said,we dont know where the cctvs will be installed and its intentional on the government's part as you will appreciate the whole essence will be defeated if criminals go to the locations and destroy them,as for ojuelegba and co, lets even assume that they dont install a cctv there,isnt the fact that cctv will deter majority enough?isnt it better than what we have now?

of course it has to be prioritised,they wont just install it anywhere and everywhere, personally i think any company should be made to pay before its installed and the money re invested back into the scheme

must_a_far:

i_laugh and sky blue

i had questioned how it would be powered, what support system has been put in place to enable us derive maximum benefits not partial. if from what i said, u were able to see my assumption of its failure then i guess i must be good at this and not know it then.

powering cctv is the most elementary of all,even if it has not been disclosed if i a complete novice knows that there are solar powered cctvs,there are electrically wired cctvs and there are cctvs with batteries in them imagine the newer and more advanced options that ll be available to cisco which is a world renowned computer hardware coy

Sky Blue:

At current a good number of street lights in the newly refurbished roads in Lagos are powered from an alternate source and not PHCN and inverters are used. It wouldn't be too difficult to imagine that such could be used as an approach as well. The original idea for the street lights on the BRT corridors was that they would be powered by solar power which is also used in certain roads in port harcourt and other areas of the country, don't know if that is what is being used in the final thing though. I hope if anything this arguement has informed all of things we might not have known. So enough with the numerous speculation, you can research these things.

so from questioning those, you assumed i was predicting its failure. i know solar panels could be used, but in a case where wat is being captured is not well lighted of what use is the feed. but i wont go that route.

Lucab, i know CCTV technology works perfect. heck i was being watched by like 3 of them while i stopped over at heathrow and was busy facebooking my time away. i know its advantages. the building im in right now has one that records whoever comes in and out of the building and its in plain site too. but all this advantages come to nothing when reality checks in and tells us the camera are being installed at wrong locations.

if im asked to advice on taking the CCTV idea a step further. making it a requirement for public buses wont be off my list. and in a case where a bus is stopped and its found out that the camera isnot working. na fine.

Sky Blue:

So much has been hinged one "what fashola said", are you willing to base the whole arguement on 2 or so short sentences that supports what has been in articles about the whole issue? If i post the response you speak of will that change things? LOL.
I might as well post the much vaunted reply so we can move on:

TextCast: Fashola, thank you Wale
TextCast: the governor has jyust been askec about cctv]
TextCast: fashola: I don;t agree that we are wasting money on CCTv
TextCast: the biggest challagnes apart form transport are security
TextCast: : We have inadequate number of police officer
TextCast: : for 6 million people
TextCast: : In any event the number of cameras we are putting in will not all be funded by Lagos State gov
TextCast: : we will be providing cameras for anyone, the supplier will install the equipment adn connect someone to teh databaseTextCast: : using technology to improve thes security

A lot of the "assumptions" was driven by peaople arguing on nairaland without really researching into the issue. Moral of the story, read up on the issue if you are not sure. The locations of the CCTV installations are not being given out [b]on purpose.[/b]

Well . . .  since the cameras will not be funded by the government and the installations will be at the expense of the property owner, don't you think it makes sense that the LOCATION OF THE CCTV INSTALLATIONS WILL NOT BE GIVEN OUT? I am not sure how that does not jump right out at you when you read that.

http://www.punchng.com/Articl.aspx?theartic=Art200811193425159

A source, who preferred anonymity, said that secret installation of the cameras had already begun, but for security reasons, would not want to disclose the areas.

In a telephone interview with our correspondent, the state Commissioner for Science and Technology, Dr. Obafemi Hamzat, said the government had given its specifications to Cisco for the kind of equipment it required.

He added that the company had also been shown the identified black spots where the equipment would be mounted.

The commissioner explained that as part of efforts to create job opportunities for its indigenes, the government had also instructed the firm that 70 per cent of its workforce should be sourced from the local populace.

http://www.punchng.com/Articl.aspx?theartic=Art200811193425159

Hamzat, however, declined to state the specific cost of the project, saying that since it was a PPP initiative, the government would not know the entire cost of the project.

He said, ”The project is a PPP initiative. All government had done was to give specifications of what it wanted and spelt out areas where it wanted the equipment fixed.

“We have also insisted that 70 per cent of the workforce should come from Lagos.

”Government cannot determine the cost of the project at the moment because it is under a PPP initiative. However, before the project is completed, we will have known the costs.”

The CCTV project is part of the state-wide inter-connectivity network and e-payment system inaugurated in September 2008 by the Governor, Mr. Babatunde Fashola.

Did you bother to read the man's own words? If you have researched this why do you continue to turn a blind eye to the facts in the articles that keep popping up for this?

http://allafrica.com/stories/200901140578.html


Fashola explained that the Security Trust Fund would enable everyone to contribute to security.

"It is not tax; we ask you to lend a hand to take our city away from law breakers and criminals. If we get more money we will certainly do much more."

For effective operations, all the heads of the security agencies - Rapid Response Squad (RRS), Lagos State Ambulance Service (LASAMBUS) and Lagos State Traffic Management Authority (LASTMA) - to be stationed at the command centre would be equipped to pass information down the chain.

Kobojunkie:

NO, because most of the banks and businesses in lagos have have CCTV installed for over 15 years now and that has yet to adversely affect security in Lagos. If you have ever been to VI, you would note that most all the properties there have CCTV installed. Has that made VI more secure for the people? Not necessarily.


The insecurity that is mentioned above does not necessarily point to securing of investments the way you are trying to make it seem. Corruption is a bigger issue and no amount of CCTV can stop corruption and government “policy changes” that have robbed people of their investments in the past.

On the issue of security, having privately run security is not new in Nigeria, given, this is at a bigger scale and sort of reminds me, again of ADT here, only that this is the state government advertising the idea. Now, there remains the issue of a bad police force. In the past, banks have arrested criminals on their properties, turned them over to the police, only to have them released the next minute. If the company monitored CCTV was not able to stop this, how does a CCTV plugged into what we assume to be stated owned Database solve this problem?  




Here is the deal. If you say CCTV by Fashola brings jobs, which sound more meaningful than CCTV by Fashola brings security to Lagos. This so far sounds no different than the signing of a deal with the dish satellite network company from South Africa, to bring Satellite TV to those who can afford it and jobs, simple!



We read from Fashola’s response that AGAIN THE CAMERA’s WILL NOT BE FUNDED BY THE STATE. So, regardless of speculations, the man said NO. Why do you find that hard to accept? The article you posted also pushes this as a private initiative and less government. Another article quotes the man or a rep stating that NO TAX MONEY WILL BE USED FOR THIS. What speculation do you want me to subscribe to now?


Please stop with the wailing already. Not a single soul has so far said that all other things are at stand still while CCTV is being focused on. Assuming that those with opposing views think that way is sort of ridiculous and in my opinion childish.  

@Lucabrasi, somehow assumes he is the only one “Monitoring” the situation in lagos and so I would rather skip his post as it is not based on facts but more his assumptions on issues and he makes that clear in his post in response to @B.o.s.s.

You can try to sell me the whole CCTV will magically make businesses tackle other issues line or  we can stick to what we know of this and go along with the actual work on ground instead of speculating. I have made myself clear here.

It is not funded currently with Tax payers money.
No where are we told this is to be monitored or organized by Government. Please let us stop trying to blow fairy dust into this and allow it be what it is.

Please could you highlight where i said the CCTVs are being bought by the government? Please could you show me where i said tax payer's money is being used to buy CCTVs? Corruption is a bigger issue but not the only issue. I don't think you really got what i was aying in my previous post. I don't know what you are getting at with the "CCTV by Fashola" part, you seem to be making this more about him than most. I didnt say CCTV will 'magically' fix businesses rather i said the security of businesses can provide a better business environment so i don't think i am trying to "sell" you any line here. Having private security is not new in Nigeria but i don't think there has been a move to co-ordinate it like this before neither do i think wether the idea being novel or not is such a big issue as you continue to make it. Is it a good initiative which won't be all funded by government? Yes. So what is the issue? I am getting tired and this arguement is entering futility and seems to be arguement for arguement sake (in my opinion), especially when you seem to inject new twists to my posts so have a nice day.

All these grammar because of a project that someone sees to be necessary?

who are these people for God's sake? Their wisdom must be like that of God to think noone else thinks better than them - oh my God.

Sky Blue:

Please could you highlight where i said the CCTVs are being bought by the government? Please could you show me where i said tax payer's money is being used to buy CCTVs? Corruption is a bigger issue but not the only issue. I don't think you really got what i was aying in my previous post. I don;t know what you are getting at with the "CCTV by Fashola" part, you seem to be making this more about him than most.

Actually, if you read your posts so far, you are the one making it about your being enamored to the man and not about the facts. Focus on the facts and leave the assumptions out of the debate to see what this has been about.

No one here has so far said the program will fail, not a single person. With the new revelation that CISCO is in charge, I am more than assured that if government allows them licensing needs required, this will work. However, I will not inject there being some benefit to the people just cause I can assume such.

Sky Blue:

I didnt say CCTV will 'magically' fix businesses rather i said the security of businesses can provide a better business environment so i don't think i am trying to "sell" you any line here.

Lol . . .  Again businesses are not people in lagos. Businesses are businesses, CCTV already exists in Lagos. Many of the businesses in Lagos already have CCTVS. The new thing in this case is moving the feeds into a database (assumed to be monitored by government – I am unable to verify if this will be the case).

Sky Blue:

Having private security is not new in Nigeria but i don't think there has been a move to co-ordinate it like this before neither do i think wether the idea being novel or not is such a big issue as you continue to make it.

I am not continuing on it but I am against you selling me that it is. Kapish? For all I know, there are already many ADT like companies in the same Lagos.

Sky Blue:

Is it a good initiative which won;t be all funded by government? Yes. So what is the issue? I am getting tired and this arguement is entering futility (in my opinion), especially when you seem to inject new twists to my posts so have a nice day.

You are the one here with the twists, sorry, not I. I have been calling that we stick to facts and not injects assumptions and MAYBEs into the whole gist up until now. Yes it is futile at this point but please let us stop trying to spray Fairy dust on anything the man does just so we can claim another brownie point for him is my call.

Kobojunkie:


Actually, if you read your posts so far, you are the one making it about your being enamored to the man and not about the facts. Focus on the facts and leave the assumptions out of the debate to see what this has been about.

No one here has so far said the program will fail, not a single person. With the new revelation that CISCO is in charge, I am more than assured that if government allows them licensing needs required, this will work. However, I will not inject there being some benefit to the people just cause I can assume such.


Lol . . .  Again businesses are not people in lagos. Businesses are businesses, CCTV already exists in Lagos. Many of the businesses in Lagos already have CCTVS. The new thing in this case is moving the feeds into a database (assumed to be monitored by government – I am unable to verify if this will be the case).

I am not continuing on it but I am against you selling me that it is. Kapish? For all I know, there are already many ADT like companies in the same Lagos.



You are the one here with the twists, sorry, not I. I have been calling that we stick to facts and not injects assumptions and MAYBEs into the whole gist up until now. Yes it is futile at this point but please let us stop trying to spray Fairy dust on anything the man does just so we can claim another brownie point for him is my call.

Why not point out sections of my posts where i have made this more about fashola as opposed to arguing a case for cctv being important too and a priority as well?
Are you not the one along with others that assumed that the CCTV was meant to protect citizens?
Where have i tried to sell you the idea that CCTV in lagos is a novel idea?
You keep on going back to facts, facts which i have tried basing my arguements on and its quite amusing you mention such considering you didn't even know the company was an IT company, etc until i posted the article by punch which took me seconds to unearth. Anyway, a possibly healthy debate (once upon a time) has gone beyond that. I won't bother responding because i am now convined it has become futile continuing. If anything though it has informed people about things like the funding arrangements, the company handling it, etc. So if i don't respond don't take it as bad manners, i am just so done with this  . Have a nice day

about time too. lol.

must_a_far:

so from questioning those, you assumed i was predicting its failure. i know solar panels could be used, but in a case where wat is being captured is not well lighted of what use is the feed. but i wont go that route.

Lucab, i know CCTV technology works perfect. heck i was being watched by like 3 of them while i stopped over at heathrow and was busy facebooking my time away. i know its advantages. the building im in right now has one that records whoever comes in and out of the building and its in plain site too. but all this advantages come to nothing when reality checks in and tells us the camera are being installed at wrong locations.

if im asked to advice on taking the CCTV idea a step further. making it a requirement for public buses wont be off my list. and in a case where a bus is stopped and its found out that the camera isnot working. na fine.

i cant argue with you on these points,moreover as the finer details have not been released but wehile we are in the realm of speculations,its a safe assumption to say,when a company of cisco's statuire are involved in this project,they know these issues you have highlighted and will work accordingly so that the project will be sucessful, come to think of it,is there asny major or minor area really where there isnt crime?

lucabrasi:

i cant argue with you on these points,moreover as the finer details have not been released but wehile we are in the realm of speculations,its a safe assumption to say,when a company of cisco's statuire are involved in this project,they know these issues you have highlighted and will work accordingly so that the project will be sucessful, come to think of it,is there asny major or minor area really where there isnt crime?

sure there isnt much, pple get mugged right in front of their own homes. talk of Cisco being involved in this came about after some of the assumptions have been made. and that was why i had stated earlier that there was more info needed to better understand what was going on. but all well, i guess its simply wait and see thats left for me now.

s