kay1one2:


The wealth gap between the popes and the populace was so bad it inflamed the embers of the reformation! So bad! The church needed a reformation and it got it mainly because most of the policies of the catholic church then were not founded on the Bible. E.g saying the communion was the exact body and blood of Jesus and purgatory and that people could pay fees to have the priest or pope cleanse them from their sins!

it is written in d bible dat Jesus in d last supper raised d bread nd said "this is my body",it is also written in 1st john chapter 5 clearly showing dat dere is a purgatory. It is also written in dat same bible dat d early christains contributed individualy to d growth of d Mother Church by contributing dere wealth as if it were a public commodity.Every thing dat d church does is in d bible,too bad some people r catholics but don't understand in depth of how lucky dey r.Even Jesus said to his apostles as he was ascending said any sin u hv forgiven I hv forgiven as well likewise any sin u hv not I hv not as well.Dat is y d catholic church does or conducts confession.Such a pity most catholics a ignorant.

Papist:

He said all this and more, after becoming a Protestant. Should I give you more Protestant Luther quotes?

Anyways I am not even supposed to argue with u concerning Luther cos as far as the bible/God is concerned is nt an authority. Not that I don't revere him, bt the word of God is enough for us xtian to believe n not what someone said or didn't say.

NB So what if he said that about Mary, it suddenly change what the bible said about her?

StarMogul:
it is written in d bible dat Jesus in d last supper raised d bread nd said "this is my body",it is also written in 1st john chapter 5 clearly showing dat dere is a purgatory. It is also written in dat same bible dat d early christains contributed individualy to d growth of d Mother Church by contributing dere wealth as if it were a public commodity.Every thing dat d church does is in d bible,too bad some people r catholics but don't understand in depth of how lucky dey r.Even Jesus said to his apostles as he was ascending said any sin u hv forgiven I hv forgiven as well likewise any sin u hv not I hv not as well.Dat is y d catholic church does or conducts confession.Such a pity most catholics a ignorant.

Spiritually yes, His body and blood. The church taught then it was physical His hence no "ordinary" bread even without yeast or wine could be used as is possible today except the one the church itself brought out from its storehouses.
Its is appointed for man to die once after that the judgement.-Bible. Why did the rich man in the parable/story Jesus told about the rich man and lazarus, not get his request from Abraham? Because after death is judgement. Abraham said something important in that story:"if they won't listen to the prophets, neither will they listen even if someone woke up from the dead to preach to them." If a man can't repent in one lifetime, he won't in the next or at least it won't be sincere or last for long.

Abuamam:
If the verse "by their works ye shall know them" is anything to go by, Catholics are the ONLY good Christians. (Well JW are nice too). They build free or cheap schools, hospitals, orphanages. And their priests; among whom I have had a few friends; eschew avarice, wealth and greed, and tend to concentrate on the poor masses, rather than ingratiate themselves with rich church members. They also undergo rigorous decade long training in theology, languages and philosophy among other classic arts and sciences, before qualifying to minister, unlike the self-acclaimed former armed robbers; as the new generation pastors like to claim; who undergo a week of mushroom training at some backyard 'bible school'; and are then let loose like ravening wolves upon a gullible flock.
I am a neutral, but going by works and character, the Catholics have my thumbs up by a loooong mile. Of course, as a Muslim, I believe all are wrong, theology wise.

Lol abuamam a reason I enjoy chatting with you is that u truly seem like an objective nice person and smarter than the likes of rilwanye, empire, roypcain etc but I don't know why u can't see Islam for what it is. Its terror, fraud and villainy.

Anyway I wanted to point out that we are talking about Christians, JW are not Christians, but it has strong community which is good. However, they are a cult just like Mormons and Islam. They all deny Christ as the divine son of God.

kay1one2:


The wealth gap between the popes and the populace was so bad it inflamed the embers of the reformation! So bad! The church needed a reformation and it got it mainly because most of the policies of the catholic church then were not founded on the Bible. E.g saying the communion was the exact body and blood of Jesus and purgatory and that people could pay fees to have the priest or pope cleanse them from their sins!

You need to understand something.... The pope had enormous wealth then because virtually every king in Europe is in one way or the other under the pope.... The teaching that you claimed to have caused the teformation is still what we believe in...

Rich4god:

You need to understand something.... The pope had enormous wealth then because virtually every king in Europe is in one way or the other under the pope.... The teaching that you claimed to have caused the teformation is still what we believe in...

Salvation is in one name only: Jesus, as there is no other name under heaven by which man can be saved!

Ifeann:


Lol abuamam a reason I enjoy chatting with you is that u truly seem like an objective nice person and smarter than the likes of rilwanye, empire, roypcain etc but I don't know why u can't see Islam for what it is. Its terror, fraud and villainy.

Anyway I wanted to point out that we are talking about Christians, JW are not Christians, but it has strong community which is good. However, they are a cult just like Mormons and Islam. They all deny Christ as the divine son of God.

You think so because their theology does not suit you. I believe ALL xtian theologies are in error. In fact, to me, the Jehovah Witnesses are more theologically acceptable than trinitarians; precisely because of the evidence you gave. I am basing my own opinion on good character and good works; since the extant bible purports to say...
"By their works, ye shall know them"
Of course, there are bigotted, crass, hate-filled individuals in every religion, so I am not giving a blanket thumbs up to ALL Catholics. Just most of them.

SalC:
Isn't it surprising you don't know Luther isn't against honouring Mary and even preached her immaculate conception even as a protestant?

For the fact i said I don't care about what anyone said or didn't say doesn't mean I agreed that Luther said that?

The bible is enough to know all we gatto to know about Mary n not some bible scholar opinion. And we know enough from the bible that Mary isn't different from any xtian who simply believed n is saved.

Abuamam:


You think so because their theology does not suit you. I believe ALL xtian theologies are in error. In fact, to me, the Jehovah Witnesses are more theologically acceptable than trinitarians; precisely because of the evidence you gave. I am basing my own opinion on good character and good works; since the extant bible purports to say...
"By their works, ye shall know them"
Of course, there are bigotted, crass, hate-filled individuals in every religion, so I am not giving a blanket thumbs up to ALL Catholics. Just most of them.

Dude u keep quoting by their fruit u shall know them but u just can't see how it exposes Islam for the evil it is.

The fruits of Islam is rotten

Paedophilia
Child marriage
Adultery(polygamy)
Domestic abuse
Prostitution(temporary marriage)
Assasinations(of Mohammeds critics which Mohammed proved of)
Slavery
Sex slavery
Senseless fighting.
Murder
Hatred
Are all tenets and "virtue" in Islam.

U Muslims have murdered each other for hundreds of years evil till this day including killing ur own prophets grandkids. U kill non Muslims all the time. Why can u see how rotten the fruits of Islam is.

kay1one2:


Salvation is in one name only: Jesus, as there is no other name under heaven by which man can be saved!

Did the pope tell you he is the one saving the catholics...

Deyemiola:
I think we Christians put too much energy in judging each other.

Not just judging each other but as well as Muslims and others. If you think am lying ask truthman2012 true2god oremussanctus Ifeann etc.

Ifeann:


Dude u keep quoting by their fruit u shall know them but u just can't see how it exposes Islam for the evil it is.

The fruits of Islam is rotten

Paedophilia
Child marriage
Adultery(polygamy)
Domestic abuse
Prostitution(temporary marriage)
Assasinations(of Mohammeds critics which Mohammed proved of)
Slavery
Sex slavery
Senseless fighting.
Murder
Hatred
Are all tenets and "virtue" in Islam.

U Muslims have murdered each other for hundreds of years evil till this day including killing ur own prophets grandkids. U kill non Muslims all the time. Why can u see how rotten the fruits of Islam is.

I don't want to derail the op's thread. This thread is about whether Catholics are christians or not.

Rich4god:
Did the pope tell you he is the one saving the catholics...

...not purgatory. Or human works.

kay1one2:


...not purgatory. Or human works.

smh... Did the pope tell you that purgatory or human works are what is saving catholics...
Plz, if you want to talk... Be precise and matured, stop acting as if the base of your argument is from beer parlor gist...

Rich4god:
smh... Did the pope tell you that purgatory or human works are what is saving catholics...
Plz, if you want to talk... Be precise and matured, stop acting as if the base of your argument is from beer parlor gist...

You haven't countered what I said. Purgatory doesn't save. Faith in Jesus does. Not in self righteous acts. All the paraphernalia should be cut out!

kay1one2:


You haven't countered what I said. Purgatory doesn't save. Faith in Jesus does. Not in self righteous acts. All the paraphernalia should be cut out!

why do I have to counter it when the church never said such...
When did the church said that purgatory or works saves...

Rich4god:
why do I have to counter it when the church never said such...
When did the church said that purgatory or works saves...

In my first post I stated clearly that most of the fundamental practices ( first acts) of the church were faulty, accepted that many improvements have been made and called for more. The topic itself doesn't have my full support because catholics are obviously christians not buddhists!

kay1one2:


In my first post I stated clearly that most of the fundamental practices ( first acts) of the church were faulty, accepted that many improvements have been made and called for more. The topic itself doesn't have my full support because catholics are obviously christians not buddhists!

ok.. Case closed and thanks for your time... But know it that there is no where in the church teaching that says "purgatory or good works is what save Catholics..."

OP, can you handle this topic? I don't think so.
OP you sound like one of these our protestant brothers who do not actually know why they are protesting. Let me let you be.

Empiree, laogsshia, tartar9, 9jaforlife, roypcain etc come and see pentecostal and catholic Christians have a heated argument about theology and did not resort to murdering each other or making death threats.

Ifeann:
Empiree, laogsshia, tartar9, 9jaforlife, roypcain etc come and see pentecostal and catholic Christians have a heated argument about theology and did not resort to murdering each other or making death threats.

I see… "heated arguments" like the 30 years war

Ifeann:



Apparently u have several issues with ur post.. U don't have ur "facts" right.
1. seun is not a Christian
2. The Islamic section is necessary to avoid fatwas and death threats
3. Catholics don't worship Mary
4. The crusades was neccesary..if u have studied it you will know that Muslims were murdering whole Christian communities in their jihadist quest to dominate the world, Spain, Byzantine, turkey, etc all fell to blood thrist Muslims, Spain was liberated thanks to the crusades and Spaniards went on later to discover America.
5. The "no marriage" practise is in the bible, its a sacrifice that u make if u are ready to make it.. Jesus, Paul and several disciplines died without marrying. Paul even said in one of his letter that u can go unmmarried to serve God if u can cope but if u can't then marry as soon as u can

But u are right about something, any Catholic or protestant christian who bows to status, or persons or fears his preists or pastors more than God is not worthy to be called a christian.

Thanks Ifeann for this.

kay1one2:


Maybe you should go amd read foxe's book of matyrs and find the names out yourself. Hiding behind me mentioning names of people who lived in 600ad is not convincing one bit!

Foxe's Book of Martyrs? What makes you think it is historically accurate?

Papist:

Foxe's Book of Martyrs? What makes you think it is historically accurate?

Its a good shot!

Rich4god:



I want you to tell me which is the first church.... What happened to the church during the medieval ages.... Where is the church now...?

Also, why is it that churches founded by the apostles outside the holy land are in communion with catholic even though they differ in some way...eg is the church of Ethiopia.... Let me stop here for now.

An2elect2....
I hope you have not eloped like you did in the other thread...

PastorOluT:


Anyways I am not even supposed to argue with u concerning Luther cos as far as the bible/God is concerned is nt an authority. Not that I don't revere him, bt the word of God is enough for us xtian to believe n not what someone said or didn't say.

NB So what if he said that about Mary, it suddenly change what the bible said about her?

Aah maybe it means that the veneration of Mary is a Christian practice that has been there from the beginning?

Ifeann:


Kay and papist u guys need to chill.. Tho dialogue is necessary but ur tones are very confrontational.

Protestants and Catholics are doing great works today. In the past there has been "naughty" deeds by both parties, the Catholics have a long complex history, some which is not nice eg, a hand full of evil popes, wars, inquisitions but Christianity owes a lot to the Good Catholics who have done a lot of Good through the ages.
Let's not forget visionary men like Martin Luther who fought hard to translate the bible, hence bringing the word of God closer to the people despite resistance from the then pope, let's not forget William tindale who was murdered for his effort to translate the bible.

Today, universally, Catholics have consistently and firmly stood against homosexuality, abortion and capital punishment in line with the Bible. While several fractions of protestants/pentecostals have buckled to pressure and accepted them.
Catholics have consistently emphasised salvation while several protestants teach almost entirely on prosperity, miracle healing etc Venerating saints to the point of having status of them is wrong but Catholics do it.

Humans are consistently imperfect and hence we shall always fall short but pointing fingers and disparaging other effort making Christians is wrong be it catholic or protestant.

Good point. I think all Christians should unite against all persecutors...terrorists or secular humanists.

An2elect2:


There is no truth in the catholic institution. The lie that it is the first church is what they use to keep their members bound in delusion.

Wake up, Jesus said he is the way, the truth and the life, no one can go to the Father but by him John 14: 6

The scriptures says expressly that there is no name giving under heaven by which men can be saved except the name of Jesus. Acts 4:12

You don't need the priest or clergy man to interpret that for you. It is as clear as night and day.

Only Jesus can save. Look to Him alone and be saved.

o yea? So since wen did catholics claim monopoly to d gate of heaven?

Deyemiola:
I think we Christians put too much energy in judging each other.

I wll quote u ova again....u just spoked my mind.



We spend energy in mudslinging other denominations...yet d unsaved souls are every wia wt no man to minister to dem

Ifeann:



Apparently u have several issues with ur post.. U don't have ur "facts" right.
1. seun is not a Christian
2. The Islamic section is necessary to avoid fatwas and death threats
3. Catholics don't worship Mary
4. The crusades was neccesary..if u have studied it you will know that Muslims were murdering whole Christian communities in their jihadist quest to dominate the world, Spain, Byzantine, turkey, etc all fell to blood thrist Muslims, Spain was liberated thanks to the crusades and Spaniards went on later to discover America.
5. The "no marriage" practise is in the bible, its a sacrifice that u make if u are ready to make it.. Jesus, Paul and several disciplines died without marrying. Paul even said in one of his letter that u can go unmmarried to serve God if u can cope but if u can't then marry as soon as u can

But u are right about something, any Catholic or protestant christian who bows to status, or persons or fears his preists or pastors more than God is not worthy to be called a christian.

Seun is not a christian? What is he then.

The no marriage practise when I said is not in the bible, I meant it is not a command, it was not enforced. It was just a suggestion by Paul. The catholics now making it compulsory for people who want to devote themselves is what I labelled 'wrong'.

They don't worship mary? They pray to mary. What will you call that.

Papist:

So the Catholic soldiers who died at Lepanto, at Malta, at Vienna, at Constantinople, at Antioch, at Jerusalem etc trying to save Christianity from jihad are not Christians and you are? SMH. Do you think if Europe had fallen to Islam in the Middle Ages there would have been any Protestant to protest any Catholic Church? About the Mary worship thing and breaking the second commandment i will not bother responding to those absurd allegations.

Were the early christians not attacked? Did God not protect his own? Breaking of the commandment is an allegation?

Esdb3:


Were the early christians not attacked? Did God not protect his own? Breaking of the commandment is an allegation?

And guess what? These early Christians were Catholics. The Holy Apostles, St Ignatius of Antioch, St Polycarp, Pope St Clement, St Perpetua, St Justin Martyr etc.