johnydon22:


Atheism means disbelief in god... and i lack belief in a god this doesnt automatically mean someone have faith in the negative..

it means, i dont believe it until proven.. as simple as that..

Atheism is generally taken as a belief that God does not exist and 'disbelief in God' is usually interpreted to mean that.

I quite accept your interpretation also but it actually leads to agnosticism.

johnydon22:


and am telling you that disbelief doesnt entail faith in the negative.. you need to understand that..

Yes I do understand fully so let me ask you:

Do you believe their is NO GOD - Yes - you are an Atheist

Do you believe there MAY be no God - Yes - You are an agnostic.

KoloOyinbo:

And you disbelieve it on faith alone!
MY point exactly

I need faith to say i disbelief an idea? lmao... dude you are funny

KoloOyinbo:


Yes I do understand fully so let me ask you:

Do you believe their is NO GOD - Yes - you are an Atheist

Do you believe there MAY be no God - Yes - You are an agnostic.

Simply put i disbelieve the idea of a god until proven...

thats what i have been yapping from the beginning till now

I fall on the category of An agnostic atheist... google it and see

KoloOyinbo , a Chrisitian does not need faith to know God exists . You are giving these guys the wrong ideas about faith . Debating with atheists is so easy , you guys make it seem hard .

KoloOyinbo:


Yes I do understand fully so let me ask you:

Do you believe their is NO GOD - Yes - you are an Atheist

Do you believe there MAY be no God - Yes - You are an agnostic.

Based on available evidence, I DON'T believe that we are living in multiple alternate universes simultaneously.
However, if the evidence for multiple alternate universes are brought forward tomorrow or in the future, I shall reevaluate my position accordingly to accept or continue to reject that IDEA.

Same rule applies to god. There exist no evidence for the existence of god. Therefore, it logical to assume and even assert that he doesn't exist, ..until such a time that he is proven to exist.

You forget that most atheists were former believers who had to jettison their spoonfed belief in god, because they couldn't not find an iota of evidence to sustain such a belief.

^^^
Yet, the irony is that almost all theists have deep doubts that god exists. They all hope that he does.
This is why they are usually eager and desperate in their daily supplications.

plaetton:
^^^
Yet, the irony is that almost all theists have deep doubts that god exists. They all hope that he does.
This is why they are usually eager and desperate in their daily supplications.

yes almost but not all. The same can be said of atheists.

plaetton:

Based on available evidence, I DON'T believe that we are living in multiple alternate universes simultaneously.
However, if the evidence for multiple alternate universes are brought forward tomorrow or in the future, I shall reevaluate my position accordingly to accept or continue to reject that IDEA.

Same rule applies to god. There exist no evidence for the existence of god. Therefore, it logical to assume and even assert that he doesn't exist, ..until such a time that he is proven to exist.

You forget that most atheists were former believers who had to jettison their spoonfed belief in god, because they couldn't not find an iota of evidence to sustain such a belief.

Glad you don't believe that about the universe. Neither do I. I have no proof to the contrary though so on that point am an agnostic.

If those supposed former believers thought there was proof or it was even possible then they knew nothing about God/Deism/Religion/Logic/Philosopht etc!

So I am happy with my previous post and no comment made so far can stand against it. As it has been the position of philosophers for centuries I doubt anything said here could anyway, even if all the errors were omitted.

johnydon22:


Simply put i disbelieve the idea of a god until proven...

thats what i have been yapping from the beginning till now

I fall on the category of An agnostic atheist... google it and see

OK. I can accept your definition - although it is not the generally accepted one but having defined it that way is certainly valid.

I would try to go a little beyond 'Google' for research though!

johnydon22:


I need faith to say i disbelief an idea? lmao... dude you are funny

If an atheist believes there is no God he is relying on FAITH.

You definition of yourself is to me an Agnostic - although you call it agnostic atheist ( or other way around) . And no you don't need faith for that point of view. Presumably in the equally impossible case of prof FOR the existence you would accept God.

It seems to be the definition of Atheism that is causing the problem. So on my definition Atheism requires FAITH.

On you definition (whatever scale you use or addition terms) Atheist-Agnostic needs no FAITH

Atheist-Atheist/Strong Atheist (One who believes that God does not exist - label as you like) requires FAITH.

Hope at last you see my point!

KingEbukasBlog:
KoloOyinbo , a Chrisitian does not need faith to know God exists . You are giving these guys the wrong ideas about faith . Debating with atheists is so easy , you guys make it seem hard .

It is in the Bible - by FAITH alone are we saved.

As it is impossible to prove God - this has been known for millennia - any Christian who KNOWS God exists does so because of FAITH.

KoloOyinbo:


If an atheist believes there is no God he is relying on FAITH.

You definition of yourself is to me an Agnostic - although you call it agnostic atheist ( or other way around) . And no you don't need faith for that point of view. Presumably in the equally impossible case of prof FOR the existence you would accept God.

It seems to be the definition of Atheism that is causing the problem. So on my definition Atheism requires FAITH.

On you definition (whatever scale you use or addition terms) Atheist-Agnostic needs no FAITH

Atheist-Atheist/Strong Atheist (One who believes that God does not exist - label as you like) requires FAITH.

Hope at last you see my point!

I can see why you are mixing atheism with faith.
The trick word here is "believe".
You are either doing deliberately or ignorantly.

Christians and atheists do not use the word "believe" in the same context.

In Christianity, one needs faith to believe in a talking snake or talking donkey, or that a ho.r.NY holy spirit r.a.ped a virgin to beget the saviour of the world. You need FAITH to BELiEVE in that crap.
On the other hand, I do not need faith point out that a so- called spirit cannot have sexual urges, let alone intercourse, produce sperm to produce babies.
I Believe that is impossible, because it is not possible.

Like wise, if you BELIEVE that sun stood still for Joshua, that requires a lot of faith.
If I say that I BELIEVE it didn't and couldn't have happened, that requires on common sense based on personal observation and thousands of years of science.
So you see that "BELIEVE " in these two instances, are from two different frames of mind.

So, it is disingenuous of you to try to prove that the act of "Believing" for both Christian and atheist, portray the same mindset.

KoloOyinbo:


It is in the Bible - by FAITH alone are we saved.

Ephesians 2:8-9

8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast.
This is a simple statement of how Christians are resurrected spiritually from death in sins

As it is impossible to prove God - this has been known for millennia - any Christian who KNOWS God exists does so because of FAITH.

When "God" is said , basic descriptions of Him should come to mind

→ Supreme Being
→ Creator
→Wonder worker
→ Highly intelligent being

If these are understood , then you have no problem . Can this be proven outside the bible? Yes and BASICALLY

→Existence , Design and Complexity of life forms
→Miracles
→Effects of His Power on Nature
→Personal Experiences

Existence of life forms

Nothing working on nothing by nothing through nothing for nothing begat everything? Hell no ! God as a self-existent (existing independently of other beings or causes.) being made and created all things . The earth and everything on it were created spiritually by God before they were created physically.(You can read mormon cosmology , but hey sieve out what is needed ). Seeing this as possible then He is the Supreme being

Design of life forms

Design - Meaning
Realization of a concept or idea into a configuration, plan or specification and which helps achieve the item's designated objective

For the fact we (man) have parts/systems/tissues/cells in our bodies that carry out specified functions ,then its a design . If cars which have parts made for it to move on land and planes have parts made for it to fly in air are seen as designs , then why not living things

Complexity of life forms
There are hundreds of differences between animal life forms - mental(intelligence) , emotional , moral , habitual , spiritual name it . This ridicules evolution crappy science which "proves" 10-14 million species of life forms came from a happy wonder cell floating on sea/ocean. . Off course His ineffable intelligence played a big part in both the design and complexity of life forms. Putting 1, 2, 3 together that proves He is a creator

Miracles
Miracles still happen today and Ive witnessed many

Effects of His Power on Nature

A quick example

Countries like Greece , Egypt , China have records of a long day corresponding to the time of Joshua.By counting the equinoxes , eclipses and transits backward from our day to that of Johsua and counting them from day of creation on to Joshua's time , a whole day is missing . For the fact in this - having the power to make the sun stand still (influences actually) then He is a Wonder worker.

Personal Experiences

Personal prayers being answered and off course you ave testimonies of God's goodness in your life

There's much more to this though

KingEbukasBlog:

Ephesians 2:8-9

8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast.
This is a simple statement of how Christians are resurrected spiritually from death in sins



When "God" is said , basic descriptions of Him should come to mind

→ Supreme Being
→ Creator
→Wonder worker
→ Highly intelligent being

If these are understood , then you have no problem . Can this be proven outside the bible? Yes and BASICALLY

→Existence , Design and Complexity of life forms
→Miracles
→Effects of His Power on Nature
→Personal Experiences

Existence of life forms

Nothing working on nothing by nothing through nothing for nothing begat everything? Hell no ! God as a self-existent (existing independently of other beings or causes.) being made and created all things . The earth and everything on it were created spiritually by God before they were created physically.(You can read mormon cosmology , but hey sieve out what is needed ). Seeing this as possible then He is the Supreme being

Design of life forms

Design - Meaning
Realization of a concept or idea into a configuration, plan or specification and which helps achieve the item's designated objective

For the fact we (man) have parts/systems/tissues/cells in our bodies that carry out specified functions ,then its a design . If cars which have parts made for it to move on land and planes have parts made for it to fly in air are seen as designs , then why not living things

Complexity of life forms
There are hundreds of differences between animal life forms - mental(intelligence) , emotional , moral , habitual , spiritual name it . This ridicules evolution crappy science which "proves" 10-14 million species of life forms came from a happy wonder cell floating on sea/ocean. . Off course His ineffable intelligence played a big part in both the design and complexity of life forms

Miracles
Miracles still happen today and Ive witnessed many

Effects of His Power on Nature

A quick example

Countries like Greece , Egypt , China have records of a long day corresponding to the time of Joshua.By counting the equinoxes , eclipses and transits backward from our day to that of Johsua and counting them from day of creation on to Joshua's time , a whole day is missing . For the fact in this - having the power to make the sun stand still (influences actually) then He is a Wonder worker.

Personal Experiences

Personal prayers being answered and off course you ave testimonies of God's goodness in your life

There's much more to this though

Lol.
Pure ,unadulterated Balderdash.

This post would prove that faith is a mangled web of meaningless anecdotes, lies and whatever a mind is eager and willing to BELIEVE.

First of all, kindly, I beg you, take us through the calculations, wherever you got them from, that show a missing day in the earth's history.

This is the kind of ST.U.PI.x crap peddled by eqaully S.T.U.Px and very dishonest blokes to much dumber folks down the zombie food chain.

Its quite OK and acceptable to hold any dumb beliefs, but Gosh!, when thus kind crap is peddled in public, everyone with a brain should join and shout down dimwits like this poster.

plaetton:


Lol.
Pure ,unadulterated Balderdash.

This post would prove that faith is a mangled web of meaningless anecdotes, lies and whatever a mind is eager and willing to BELIEVE.

First of all, kindly, I beg you, take us through the calculations, wherever you got them from, that show a missing day in the earth's history.

This is the kind of ST.U.PI.x crap peddled by eqaully S.T.U.Px and very dishonest blokes to much dumber folks down the zombie food chain.

Its quite OK and acceptable to hold any dumb beliefs, but Gosh!, when thus kind crap is peddled in public, everyone with a brain should join and shout down dimwits like this poster.

I singled out KoloOyinbo, a fellow believer, to reason with him and not you but for you...

KingEbukasBlog:

Ephesians 2:8-9

8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast.
This is a simple statement of how Christians are resurrected spiritually from death in sins



When "God" is said , basic descriptions of Him should come to mind

→ Supreme Being
→ Creator
→Wonder worker
→ Highly intelligent being

If these are understood , then you have no problem . Can this be proven outside the bible? Yes and BASICALLY

→Existence , Design and Complexity of life forms
→Miracles
→Effects of His Power on Nature
→Personal Experiences

Existence of life forms

Nothing working on nothing by nothing through nothing for nothing begat everything? Hell no ! God as a self-existent (existing independently of other beings or causes.) being made and created all things . The earth and everything on it were created spiritually by God before they were created physically.(You can read mormon cosmology , but hey sieve out what is needed ). Seeing this as possible then He is the Supreme being

Design of life forms

Design - Meaning
Realization of a concept or idea into a configuration, plan or specification and which helps achieve the item's designated objective

For the fact we (man) have parts/systems/tissues/cells in our bodies that carry out specified functions ,then its a design . If cars which have parts made for it to move on land and planes have parts made for it to fly in air are seen as designs , then why not living things

Complexity of life forms
There are hundreds of differences between animal life forms - mental(intelligence) , emotional , moral , habitual , spiritual name it . This ridicules evolution crappy science which "proves" 10-14 million species of life forms came from a happy wonder cell floating on sea/ocean. . Off course His ineffable intelligence played a big part in both the design and complexity of life forms. Putting 1, 2, 3 together that proves He is a creator

Miracles
Miracles still happen today and Ive witnessed many

Effects of His Power on Nature

A quick example

Countries like Greece , Egypt , China have records of a long day corresponding to the time of Joshua.By counting the equinoxes , eclipses and transits backward from our day to that of Johsua and counting them from day of creation on to Joshua's time , a whole day is missing . For the fact in this - having the power to make the sun stand still (influences actually) then He is a Wonder worker.

Personal Experiences

Personal prayers being answered and off course you ave testimonies of God's goodness in your life

There's much more to this though

IF God could be proven then it would have been done so millennia ago. Have you ever asked yourself why your arguments FOR God are not accepted EVEN BY BELIEVERS.

Yes I know of no valid proof of God non do the greatest minds alive today!

The errors in your so called proof (really just statement any one of which cannot be supported) should be evident. Its good to see such FAITH but you just make us a laughing stock for the atheists.

plaetton:


I can see why you are mixing atheism with faith.
The trick word here is "believe".
You are either doing deliberately or ignorantly.

Christians and atheists do not use the word "believe" in the same context.

In Christianity, one needs faith to believe in a talking snake or talking donkey, or that a ho.r.NY holy spirit r.a.ped a virgin to beget the saviour of the world. You need FAITH to BELiEVE in that crap.
On the other hand, I do not need faith point out that a so- called spirit cannot have sexual urges, let alone intercourse, produce sperm to produce babies.
I Believe that is impossible, because it is not possible.

Like wise, if you BELIEVE that sun stood still for Joshua, that requires a lot of faith.
If I say that I BELIEVE it didn't and couldn't have happened, that requires on common sense based on personal observation and thousands of years of science.
So you see that "BELIEVE " in these two instances, are from two different frames of mind.

So, it is disingenuous of you to try to prove that the act of "Believing" for both Christian and atheist, portray the same mindset.

Not really. You are merely playing with words. I stand by my premise and see nothing to shake it except if we adopt your definition mixing agnostics and atheists together.

KoloOyinbo:


Not really. You are merely playing with words. I stand by my premise and see nothing to shake it except if we adopt your definition mixing agnostics and atheists together.

And you , Sir, are an artful dodger who runs away from facts in plain sight.

KoloOyinbo:


IF God could be proven then it would have been done so millennia ago. Have you ever asked yourself why your arguments FOR God are not accepted EVEN BY BELIEVERS. Yes I know of no valid proof of God non do the greatest minds alive today!

Because things have not been seen differently

The errors in your so called proof (really just statement any one of which cannot be supported) should be evident.

Please do point them out

Its good to see such FAITH facts

but you just make us a laughing stock for the atheists.

You should know your God
1 Corinthians 1:27
27 But God chose the foolish things of the world to shame the wise; God chose the weak things of the world to shame the strong.

By the way its a trick , wake up bro ... he just made made fun or it without making a single sensible argument (because he had some beef with me over his academic record . I hear he's strongly struggling academically tho) Here he goes blaming Nigeria for his academic troubles FYI I studied too in the same Nigeria :

plaetton:

Oh gosh!
Another one.

What is it with these retards?
Jamb score, waec.. Etc etc certificates ?
Unbelievable !

So they taught you that all those useless exams the exam industry in Nigeria sold to you, and for which you cheated on all, were supposed to gift you with intelligence and common sense? Huh?

This is probably the first time in my life that two imbeciles, back to back , have asked me post my exam scores , as proof of who knows what.

Are you imbeciles serious, or just cracking jokes?

Another thumbs down for Nigeria's educational system.

KingEbukasBlog:


Because things have not been seen differently


Please do point them out

Lol.
These retar.ds and academic records again.

Jeez!
I have a beef with malignant idiocy being paraded in public. It's not personal.

BTW, You are making a good showing of your academic records, .. Jamb score, I mean.

I still openly challenge You, KingEbukasblog, to please please present the so-called calculations that show a missing day in the earth's history. You are even free to cut and paste from any website of your choice.

You owe every one on this forum that.
Please DO NOT shame your lofty, I am sure expensive, academic records by running away in shame.

plaetton:


Lol.
These regards and academic records again.

Jeez!
I have a beef with malignant idiocy being paraded in public. It's not personal.

BTW, You are making a good showing of your academic records, .. Jamb score, I mean.

I still openly challenge You, KingEbukasblog, to please please present the so-called calculations that show a missing day in the earth's history. You are even free to cut and paste from any website of your choice.

You owe every on this forum that.
Please DO NOT shame your lofty, I am sure expensive, academic records by running away in shame.

Always ranting like a bit.ch on her period .You lack basic debating skills -faulting a statement and holding unto it . Am being mocked at by someone who feels the BBT and ET are plausible theories . Damn it I forgot ! THEORY

You always try hard to be witty like me ,

KingEbukasBlog:

Always ranting like a bit.ch on her period .You lack basic debating skills -faulting a statement and holding unto it . Am being mocked at by someone who feels the BBT and ET are plausible theories . Damn it I forgot ! THEORY

You always try hard to witty like me ,

Well, if you don't accept the BBT and TOE, then that is perfectly ok.
But, it tells us here how tiny and delapidated your mind and general worldview is.
It also questions whether you went to school, what type of school, whether you played truancy in school, whether you have a learning disability, or whether you are just plain dumb by nature.

@kingEbukasblog,

Jokes apart,

Kindly lead us through the series of calculations through which you brilliant brain deduced that the earth is missing one day.

Stop the rigmaroling.

Otherwise, I am banning you from this Religilous section.

plaetton:


Well, if you don't accept the BBT and TOE, then that is perfectly ok.
But, it tells us here how tiny and delapidated dilapidated your mind and general worldview is.
It also questions whether you went to school, what type of school, whether you played truancy in school, whether you have a learning disability, or whether you are just plain dumb by nature.

Last bullet → → → →

plaetton:
@kingEbukasblog,

Jokes apart,

You started it

Kindly lead us through the series of calculations through which you brilliant brain deduced that the earth is missing one day.

Stop the rigmaroling

Google it

Otherwise, I am banning you from this Religilous Religion section.

ok

plaetton:


And you , Sir, are an artful dodger who runs away from facts in plain sight.

The facts are simple:

God cannot be proven

God cannot be disproven

An Agnostic adopts the position that they therefore cannot choose - this is both logical and rational.

Other positions require FAITH!

So no need for artful dodger nonsense or playing with words etc. Hope I have made it simple enough for you.

KingEbukasBlog:


Because things have not been seen differently


Please do point them out




You should know your God
1 Corinthians 1:27
27 But God chose the foolish things of the world to shame the wise; God chose the weak things of the world to shame the strong.

By the way its a trick , wake up bro ... he just made made fun or it without making a single sensible argument (because he had some beef with me over his academic record . I hear he's strongly struggling academically tho) Here he goes blaming Nigeria for his academic troubles FYI I studied too in the same Nigeria :

Your errors are many. Simply put you state supposed facts with absolutely no evidence that they are facts.

For example:
There is historical proof that Christ existed as a person. Zero proof that he rose from the dead!

(Before you say he was seen etc that could easily be all made up etc.) we are left with FAITH.

Any proof would have been discovered long ago if one existed. As for things being seen differently, what do you mean? You make so may errors and yet claim knowledge the greatest minds on the planet do no have! Pleeeaaase!

KoloOyinbo:


Your errors are many. Simply put you state supposed facts with absolutely no evidence that they are facts.

Maybe the Joshua example ruined it .But for the others , I think I stated the obvious. And Sir , I'd love to hear your opinion on the very beginning of life . Not BBT and ET

For example:
There is historical proof that Christ existed as a person. Zero proof that he rose from the dead! (Before you say he was seen etc that could easily be all made up etc.)

Playing the "thinking christian" ? If you claim to believe the Word of God - the bible , believe every part of it . Still boils down to this

Corinthians 1:27
27 But God chose the foolish things of the world to shame the wise; God chose the weak things of the world to shame the strong.

we are left with FAITH

An atheist point of view ?

Any proof would have been discovered long ago if one existed. As for things being seen differently, what do you mean? You make so may errors and yet claim knowledge the greatest minds on the planet do no have! Pleeeaaase!

People who don't understand who God is ?

Matthew 16:13-15

13 When Jesus came to the region of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, “Who do people say the Son of Man is?”

14 They replied, “Some say John the Baptist; others say Elijah; and still others, Jeremiah or one of the prophets.”

15 “But what about you?” he asked. “Who do you say I am?”

KingEbukasBlog:


Maybe the Joshua example ruined it .But for the others , I think I stated the obvious. And Sir , I'd love to hear your opinion on the very beginning of life . Not BBT and ET



Playing the "thinking christian" ? If you claim to believe the Word of God - the bible , believe every part of it . Still boils down to this

Corinthians 1:27
27 But God chose the foolish things of the world to shame the wise; God chose the weak things of the world to shame the strong.




An atheist point of view ?



People who don't understand who God is ?

Matthew 16:13-15

13 When Jesus came to the region of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, “Who do people say the Son of Man is?”

14 They replied, “Some say John the Baptist; others say Elijah; and still others, Jeremiah or one of the prophets.”

15 “But what about you?” he asked. “Who do you say I am?”

I BELIEVE the word of God because of FAITH, I cannot prove it.

You cannot use scripture to prove God because the Atheist rejects scripture so WHY are you quoting it??

Beginning of life is another thread - but I believe (not prove) that is it part of Gods plan.

Not just the Joshua example. ALL of what you said claiming to be proof of God is just begging the question and is only accepted by those who ALREADY believe.

IF there exists a PROOF of God all rational thinking people would have no choice but to accept it! Then we would not need belief/faith because it would be reduced to, do you have the intellect to follow what would be basically a mathematical/physical equation. FAITH would be irrelevant and not even mentioned in the bible. Any fool can believe what is already proven.

Okay but this is the dumbest assertion ever! You only want to drag atheists to your low level.

KingEbukasBlog:

Always ranting like a bit.ch on her period .You lack basic debating skills -faulting a statement and holding unto it . Am being mocked at by someone who feels the BBT and ET are plausible theories . Damn it I forgot ! THEORY

You always try hard to be witty like me ,

Despite years of endless debating and educating people on this forum, it still amazes me to see a lot of folks ridicule the notion of scientific theories as though they are a mere guesswork. I can understand if such ignorance is peddled by people with no science background. What I can't forgive, however, is when self-acclaimed students of science don't prove to be any different. Even worse coming from someone who is so quick to inform us of his lofty achievements in the almighty WAEC, UME, and of course, the most prestigious of all, the Covenant University aptitude test.

For the umpteenth time, people...

Scientific theories are the most reliable, rigorous, and comprehensive form of scientific knowledge. This is significantly different from the common usage of the word "theory", which implies that something is a conjecture, hypothesis, or guess (i.e., unsubstantiated and speculative).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_theory