Punishment For Adultery In Islam Is Not Stoning To Death - Islam for Muslims (3) - Nairaland
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Ruling On Zina ( Fornication / Adultery) In Islam / What's The Proper Punishment For A Muslim Apostate? / Qur'anic Teaching About The Punishment For Blasphemy(pics) (2) (3) (4)
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| Re: Punishment For Adultery In Islam Is Not Stoning To Death by Empiree: 2:21am On Sep 04, 2015 |
AlBaqir:humm, you working hard dear brother. This is scholarship. This is how folks become scholars. Keep it up. 1. The two sects (both Sunni and Shii) have "Sahih" ahadith which stressed that "ayat rajm" existed in the Qur'an. Whichever way the ahadith reported it, the bottom line is there is nothing like that ayah any longer in the Quran.Mashallah, @underlined really relegates Quran, Islam and the prophet a lot. It's very ridiculous!. It contradicts our very claim that "Quran is complete". 2. Sunni claimed the ayah was erased (abrogated) but the punishment is still intact. This argument as said initially is weak because whenever a verse is erased or caused to be forgotten, a better or equivalent ayah is revealed to replace it and the new hukm is implemented {Q.2:106}. Sunni failed woefully to point out the replacement of "ayat rajm" if at all it was once part of the Quran but erased.That's it. The Ayat abrogated were replaced with something similar or better. Quranic Laws are revealed to alleviate man from previous tough Laws. It's very simple and straight forward. We dont need ghost ayat to derive punishment from. At underlined, it is no longer Sunni issue alone. Both Sunni and Shia are equally guilty because they both believe in "Rajam" as punishment for adultery. 3. What about countless Sahih ahadith which showed stoning was practised? Here I agreed with Sheik Imran Hussein that those events probably occurred before Surah Nur: 2 was revealed. Meaning whatever the punishment was for adultery before, this new revelation abrogated it and established a new law in flogging for whoever commit ZINA.[size=30pt]فترة[/size] 4. Quran emphatically used the word ZINA which includes both fornication and adultery.[size=30pt]فترة[/size] 5. Here comes the problem which Sheik Imran failed to tackle (in the video above): Should we believe that the events of stoning in those ahadith occurred before revelation of surah nur:2, what about several athar (saying and practices post prophet) on stoning attributed to the so-called "Khulafau rashidun (rightly guided caliphs)? Were they deviant of Allah's legislation?Actually he addressed it. He said it was fabricated. He said that someone put those words in his (Umar ibn Khatab - RTA) mouth. He said if there was a verse missing from the Quran, the only person who had the right to tell us such a thing was Muhammad (SAW) but prophet(SAW) never uttered such a thing. Here is extract from the video (7 minutes). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oGuGskA8G9o Or you can simply listen to the 47 minutes video again. He said someone must have put the 'hadith' in the mouth of Umar(RTA). For now I need answers and views. I have sent series of mails to several scholars home and abroad, both Sunni and Shia, on this subject. When I watched a true life story film {the stoning of Suraya}, I get a gist of practicality of "stoning to death". Very horrible and terrifying. And I ask myself, what is the philosophy of this punishment?Terrible in deed. Islam frowns at mutilation of human body even that of animal. How then fornicators or adulterers should have to be stoned to death. Here is my personal view on application of 'Rajam'. Since missionaries and many christians love making fun of islam, my take is rajam should only apply on Jews and Christians living in Muslim counties since it is still exist in their Book. This strategy is a form of dawah on its own. First, non-Muslims (nominal or not) easily commit zina and other crimes. Therefore, if a non-Muslims is caught, taken to court, evidence reviewed, conviction upholds, judge should ask for his/her religion. Once he/she say they are Christians (or Jew), then judge should open their Holy Book and READ IT LOUD to them - the punishment according to their Book, like a judge read it out loud to Umar Muktar(RTA) to be hanged. I swear, many Jews and Christian in Muslim world would change their religion sharp sharp   . This is hikmah that Muslim world should apply.They (Jews and Christians) do not have the right to mock Islam if a muslim nation upholds rajam https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fN4V6Ht7ZM4 In their presence, a Muslim is also convicted of zina and he's flogged, they would realize that Islam is indeed mercy to the whole world. No one wants to die. I am pretty sure of that. Walaikum Salaam |
| Re: Punishment For Adultery In Islam Is Not Stoning To Death by Demmzy15(m): 9:26pm On Sep 11, 2015 |
Masha'Allah Empiree! ^^1 Like |
| Re: Punishment For Adultery In Islam Is Not Stoning To Death by AlBaqir(m): 10:55am On Apr 08, 2016 |
PERHAPS ITS JEWISH MONKEY Imam al-Bukhari records this beautiful hadith in his Sahih Narrated 'Amr bin Maimun: During the pre-Islamic period of ignorance I saw a she-monkey surrounded by a number of monkeys. They were all stoning it, because it had committed illegal sexual intercourse. I too, stoned it along with them http://islamport.com/w/mtn/Web/3007/6501.htm The Shuyukh in the house Empiree , Newnas , Sino , tbaba1234, Abuamam , kazlaw2000, et al
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| Re: Punishment For Adultery In Islam Is Not Stoning To Death by Rilwayne001: 11:03am On Apr 08, 2016 |
AlBaqir: loool |
| Re: Punishment For Adultery In Islam Is Not Stoning To Death by Empiree: 1:31pm On Apr 08, 2016 |
AlBaqir, Hadith you posted seems to be a dream We had discussion on it in another thread last yr posted by a christian. Do a little further research. The hadith of monkeys stoning another monkey for adultery was a dream |
| Re: Punishment For Adultery In Islam Is Not Stoning To Death by AlBaqir(m): 1:51pm On Apr 08, 2016 |
Empiree: Honestly I will appreciate you post a SAHIH hadith indicating it was a dream. 2 Likes |
| Re: Punishment For Adultery In Islam Is Not Stoning To Death by Empiree: 9:08pm On Apr 08, 2016 |
AlBaqir:It was tru2.god who opened that thread back in April 2015. I detailed everything there when he challenged and made fun of it. I am just too lazy to go through all that now. The tale is not related to rajm. Matter of fact, no mentioned of rosul in there. It was a man who had the dream. I wish i can go through all that again. I have gone through my posts this afternoon looking for it. Unfortunately, the thread is deleted. The "punishment" for zina is not derived from there. It is a separate tale. True2.god's intention was why would punishment apply to animal if they dont reason like us. He thought the penalty apply to them too. But the tale clearly says it is a dream. Imam Bukhary didnt categorize it under hukm |
| Re: Punishment For Adultery In Islam Is Not Stoning To Death by AlBaqir(m): 9:19pm On Apr 08, 2016 |
^ Empiree, all I need is SAHIH hadith which says the tale, as you've rightly put was a dream. Then, whatever it is, does it make any sense? And that is called "sahih (authentic)?" |
| Re: Punishment For Adultery In Islam Is Not Stoning To Death by Empiree: 9:23pm On Apr 08, 2016 |
AlBaqir:What I want to understand is, are you saying Ulama derived rajam from there?. I dont get it. If i come across it i will in sha Allah post it. In Any Case Though, The "Hadith" Is Considered STOPPED |
| Re: Punishment For Adultery In Islam Is Not Stoning To Death by AlBaqir(m): 9:36pm On Apr 08, 2016 |
Empiree: My posts so far never highlight that. I wonder why you will think along that line. I only post the tale at an appropriate thread. |
| Re: Punishment For Adultery In Islam Is Not Stoning To Death by sino(m): 9:24pm On Apr 12, 2016 |
AlBaqir:I chanced upon the discussion of the above narration posted on Shiachat, and lo and behold, there are even damning narrations from the books of the Shi’a, not that it is surprising though, but to think that someone who lacks in his own books of hadiths would come here to make fun of a narration that is not even attributed to the Prophet (SAW) and of an incident that happened in Jahiliyah, shows you guys are plain ridiculous. I wonder what you were trying to prove... Well, I would just post responses that suffice, and if you are a person of intellect, the narration shouldn’t be an issue in the first place…
Aansoogas posted: it is not a prophetic narration. I marvel at how you and your people jump on hadiths, overlook what great scholars of hadiths had explained, overlook principles of Islam, what Islam represents and teaches, to forming your own opinions and understandings, as long as it is derogatory and against the sunnis, or it supports your beliefs (even by twisting), then it is the right understanding, authentic and true. And you want to claim intellectualism and being academic?! SMH |
| Re: Punishment For Adultery In Islam Is Not Stoning To Death by Empiree: 9:57pm On Apr 12, 2016 |
sino:My Point Exactly 1 Like |
| Re: Punishment For Adultery In Islam Is Not Stoning To Death by AlBaqir(m): 7:15am On Apr 13, 2016 |
^What exactly is the so-called "sahih hadith" all about? Why did Imam al-Bukhari records it in his "sahih"? It doesn't add up! This is one of many examples that some of ahadith in al-Jami al-Mukhtasar of Imam Bukhari (i.e sahih Bukhari) are graded authentic based on their sanad (chain of narrators) only. He seemed not bother about some bogus matn (content). |
| Re: Punishment For Adultery In Islam Is Not Stoning To Death by sino(m): 10:18pm On Apr 13, 2016 |
^^O Sheikh AlBaqir, the muhadith of our time, with special specialty and expertise in the kutub sitah, especially, sahih Bukhari and Sahih Muslim, a shi’a extraordinaire who hardly quotes from shi’a books and avoids narrations from shi’a scholars like a plaque, please explain to us the following narration from Al-Kafi, volume 1, page 237: Ali bin abi Talib RAA was told that the Prophet’s donkey, Ufair, committed suicide! So Ali said: That donkey spoke to the Prophet ASWS, he said: May my father and mother be sacrified for you, my father told me, that his father told him, that his grandfather told him, that his father was with Noah ASWS on the arc, so Noah ASWS approached him and wiped over his back and said: from the offspring of this donkey there will come a donkey which will be ridden by the best and final prophet. Ufair then said: so Alhamdulillah, that He made me this donkey. Why on earth would a respectable shi’a scholar like Kulayni include this kind of narration in one of the most reliable books of the shi’a?! and kindly explain to us how a donkey commits suicide, and what could lead to a donkey committing suicide, while at it, can you kindly give us the names of the donkeys father and grandfather and perhaps if they are reliable too i.e thiqah? Many thanks in advance… 1 Like |
| Re: Punishment For Adultery In Islam Is Not Stoning To Death by Empiree: 11:11pm On Aug 11, 2016 |
Demmzy15: |
| Re: Punishment For Adultery In Islam Is Not Stoning To Death by Empiree: 11:59pm On Aug 11, 2016 |
This thread is funny. truthman2012, do you remember this thread  |
| Re: Punishment For Adultery In Islam Is Not Stoning To Death by sino(m): 8:23am On Aug 13, 2016 |
I must first state that Muslims should be very careful with the materials they read online, some are designed to create doubts and cause fitnah within the ranks of the Muslims. One of the lessons a student of knowledge learns is to be wary of the wicked scholars, you can hardly know they have a dodgy aqeedah, they appear real and sincere, but from their teachings and writings, their real identity are revealed. I would post excerpts from a research with regards to the OP, please visit the site to read the full article. Denying Rajm and Arguments Against it The Islamic Research Foundation International, INC. and other foundations that encourage critical thinking, opposing points of view and ijtihad, have been propagating articles under scholars and intellectuals that challenge and deny certain aspects of the Islamic principles laid more than 1400 years ago. Under the guise of critical thinking and logic such people believe that they can put forth a rational argument against Rajm. We want to emphasize the word rational as it will be very important in our article in the light of the presented proofs and arguments 2.1 Rajm Cannot be Found in the Quran? Rajm not being in the Quran is one of the most[b] illogical and unreasonable[/b] argument that such people can put forth. They say that Rajm is not found in the Quran while the punishment of one hundred lashes is found in the Quran. They also use the following logical (read illogical) statement: “Once again, it is the Qur'an that provides an outline of the Islamic Law. Other sources of Islam must be examined within the Quranic parameters” Firstly, it is not really true that Qur’an has nothing about stoning though it is true that Qur’an does not explicitly mention it. A reference to Rajm is however found in Surah al-Ma’idah, verse 43 wherein Allah says; وَكَيْفَ يُحَكِّمُونَكَ وَعِنْدَهُمُ التَّوْرَاةُ فِيهَا حُكْمُ اللَّهِ ثُمَّ يَتَوَلَّوْنَ مِنْ بَعْدِ ذَلِكَ وَمَا أُولَئِكَ بِالْمُؤْمِنِينَ “How do they ask you to judge while the Torah is with them, having the ruling of Allah? Still, they turn away, after all that. They are no believers.” (Qur’an 5:43) The verse was revealed when a couple from amongst the Jews committed adultery. They came to the Holy Prophet –peace and blessings of Allah be upon him- asking him to judge on the matter. Actually their holy book, Torah, asked for stoning of such offenders, they came to the Blessed Prophet hoping that he would give a lesser punishment. Consider the following narration: Abu Hurairah said: A man and a woman of the Jews committed fornication. Some of them said to the others: Let us go to this Prophet, for he has been sent with an easy law. If he gives a judgment lighter than stoning, we shall accept it, and argue about it with Allah, saying: It is a judgment of one of your prophets. So they came to the Prophet (may peace be upon him) who was sitting in the mosque among his companions. They said: Abul Qasim, what do you think about a man and a woman who committed fornication? He did not speak to them a word till he went to their school. [b]He stood at the gate and said: I adjure you by Allah Who revealed the Torah to Moses, what (punishment) do you find in the Torah for a person who commits fornication, if he is married? They said: He shall be blackened with charcoal, taken round a donkey among the people, and flogged. A young man among them kept silent. When the Prophet (may peace be upon him) emphatically adjured him, he said: By Allah, since you have adjured us (we inform you that) we find stoning in the Torah (as the punishment for fornication). The Prophet (may peace be upon him) said: So when did you lessen the severity of Allah's command? He said: A relative of one of our kings had committed fornication, but his stoning was suspended. Then a man of a family of common people committed fornication. He was to have been stoned, but his people intervened and said: Our man shall not be stoned until you bring your man and stone him. So they made a compromise on this punishment between them. The Prophet (may peace be upon him) said: So I decide in accordance with what the Torah says. He then commanded regarding them and they were stoned to death.[/b][1] Another narration tells us that at the end of the whole episode with the Jews the Messenger of Allah said: “The Apostle of Allah (may peace be upon him) then said: O Allah, I am the first to give life to Thy command which they have killed.”And the narration says on the eve verses 41 to 47 of Surah al-Ma’ida were revealed.[2] It is thus clear that “ruling of Allah” (hukm-ullah) in Surah Al-Ma’idah ayah 43 refers to rajm. For the said reasoning, the well known Tafsir al-Jalalayn, co-authored by Al-Mahalli and Al-Suyuti, puts it as; “But how is it that they make you their judge when they have the Torah, wherein is God’s judgment”, of stoning: the interrogative here is for [provoking] amazement, in other words, they were not seeking thereby [by making you their judge] to discover the truth but a lighter punishment for them; “and then they turn away,” [and then] they reject your ruling of stoning, which accords with what is in their Scripture, “after that”, request [to you] for arbitration? “Such are not believers.”[3] It is for this reason that Ibn Abbas- may Allah be pleased with him- said: "He who disbelieves in stoning (the adulterer to death) will have inadvertently disbelieved in the Qur'an, for Allah said, ‘O People of the Scripture! Now has come to you Our Messenger explaining to you much of that which you used to hide from the Scripture’ (Qur’an 5:15), and stoning was among the things that they used to hide.''[4] Therefore it is clear that according to the blessed companions institution of stoning was proven from Qur’an itself. However they did seem to have known that it is not explicit and some people not having proper understanding may actually end up questioning it for this reason. |
| Re: Punishment For Adultery In Islam Is Not Stoning To Death by sino(m): 8:31am On Aug 13, 2016 |
2.6.1 Evidence that rajm is hadd (prescribed punishment) and not ta’zir (discretionary punishment) Contrary to the claim of opponents of rajm we have ample evidence that rajm is indeed a hadd- punishment prescribed by the Almighty Allah. The Holy Prophet –peace and blessings of Allah be upon him- practiced it in the capacity of the Lawgiver and not just the ruler. Consider the following points; 1- In the verse 43 of surah al-Ma’idah rajm (stoning to death) is referred to “command of Allah” which shows it is a hadd prescribed by Allah. 2- According to the narration of Al-Bara’ bin ‘Azib-may Allah be pleased with him- after the stoning of the Jewish couple the Messenger of Allah –peace and blessings of Allah be upon him- said: “O Allah!, I am the first of those who revive Your command, which they had killed off.”[26] It is clearly a command of Allah. 3- In the report from ‘Ubadah bin Samit- may Allah be pleased with him- the Messenger of Allah –peace and blessings of Allah be upon him- mentioned stoning of the adulterers saying, “Allah has ordained a way for them.”[27] Again the commandment for the punishment was attributed to Allah- simple straight forward evidence that it is indeed a prescribed punishment (haddI). 4- According to the narration of Khalid al-Juhani- may Allah be pleased with him- when a case of unmarried boy cohabiting with the a married woman was brought to the Messenger of Allah- may the peace and blessings of Allah be upon him- he said, “By Him in Whose Hand is my life. I will decide between you according to the Book of Allah,” and ruled that the woman- if she confesses- must be stoned to death.[28] Here again the Holy Prophet- peace and blessings of Allah be upon him- attributed the command to the Book of Allah. 5- After mentioning the incident of the stoning of the Jewish adulterers, Ibn Abbas –may Allah be pleased with him- said: “That was the punishment ordained for them by Allah because the Prophet had known their adultery.”[29] 6- Narrated 'Abdullah: Allah's Messenger- peace and blessings of Allah be upon him- said, "The blood of a Muslim who confesses that none has the right to be worshipped but Allah and that I am His Messenger, cannot be shed except in three cases: In retaliation for murder, a married person who commits illegal sexual intercourse and the one who reverts from Islam (apostate) and leaves the Muslims."[30] This narration clearly mentions hudud i.e. prescribed punishments only and not ta’zirat i.e. discretionary punishments. Source: clicke Here 1 Like |
| Re: Punishment For Adultery In Islam Is Not Stoning To Death by Empiree: 3:32pm On Aug 13, 2016 |
^^^ Walaikum Salaam I thank you for bringing this up. Was going to quote some of them. I wouldn't argue over this at all, that's why i am reluctant to post on Rajm. I think you need to re-read everything you posted. But let me clear one misconception you seem to have about me. I think from your write up, you think i deny Rajam. That's not the case at all. I know it was prescribed in Torah. I don't deny that. I dont deny it is Allah's order in the Torah. Please clear this misconception first. Thank you. What I am simply saying is that it is no longer Muslim or Islamic hadd. It is as clear as daylight that STONING is prescribed in the Torah. This verse you quoted, “How do they ask you to judge while the Torah is with them, having the ruling of Allah? Still, they turn away, after all that. They are no believers.” (Qur’an 5:43) You agree it is talking about the Jews. But I am talking about Muslims. You did not give EVIDENCE from Qur'an that STONING is for Muslims. I do not deny it is for the Jews. Please get this fact right. I am not denying or arguing Rajm is Allah's Law. But I am saying Rajm is the punishment for adulterers in the Jewish Holy text and still there today. Please re-read everything you posted including that verse of Qur'an in Maida. Sura Maida 43 is NOT evidence of Rajm for the Muslims. It is referencing Hadd in the Jewish Law my brother. Please read what you posted. Maybe albaqir and Demmzy15 can help get my point across. Tafsir and ahadith you quoted simply reinforcing Rajm for the Jews not Muslims. Finally, my point is Rajm was prescribed by Allah in the Torah but Quran abrogated it after prophet(SAW) enforced Rajm which was abandoned by the Jews and replaced with blackening faces. The ONLY 'evidence' you cited that seems that Rajm is applied on Muslims in the hadith you quoted, 6- Narrated 'Abdullah: Allah's Messenger- peace and blessings of Allah be upon him- said, "The blood of a Muslim who confesses that none has the right to be worshipped but Allah and that I am His Messenger, cannot be shed except in three cases: In retaliation for murder, a married person who commits illegal sexual intercourse and the one who reverts from Islam (apostate) and leaves the Muslims." You also quoted this one which, in fact still talking about Jews or christian or both It is for this reason that Ibn Abbas- may Allah be pleased with him- said: "He who disbelieves in stoning (the adulterer to death) will have inadvertently disbelieved in the Qur'an, for Allah said, ‘O People of the Scripture! Now has come to you Our Messenger explaining to you much of that which you used to hide from the Scripture’ (Qur’an 5:15), and stoning was among the things that they used to hide.'' 1 Like |
| Re: Punishment For Adultery In Islam Is Not Stoning To Death by Empiree: 4:23pm On Aug 13, 2016 |
The Punishment Of Stoning To Death is found in the Old Law (The Torah). And I believe it is abrogated by Qur'an even though there are mutawatir ahadith on Rajm. The abrogation of rajm could better be understood with some historic context. Its all started when Rosulullah(sallahu alaiy wasalam) came to Medina. When he arrived Medina, he did not implemented Islamic Sharia. He found the Jews fasting ashura and he did and ordered muslims to do the same. He saw the Jews facing Qibla (Jerusalem) and he (SAW) and Muslims did the same. I wont go into questions they asked the prophet(saw) to test his prophethood. Even though it was as clear as daylight to them, they rejected him. They hated the prophet(p) more when he ENFORCED rajm in their Holy Book. Jews NEVER carried it out UNTIL Rosullah(SAW) did. They changed rajm to blacking faces of adulterers etc. You know the story of a prominent Jewish Rabbi Abdullah Ibn Salaam so I wont go into that. That is the man that uncovered their scheme. This is a very interesting story located in Seerat nabi. It happened after the prophet{p} arrived in Medina and Jews and Jewess were brought to him by the Rabbis for committing adultery. The thing is, they wanted to set him up exactly as they did to Jesus(p). Which means they were not really interested in the prophet's opinion to begin with. They thought he would bring lesser punishment for adultery contrary to RAJM in their Torah. So the prophet asked them similar question as Jesus asked, that they should bring Torah since that is the Law. At this time, Qur'an's verse of FLOGGING either was yet to be revealed or not applied since Islamic Law was not in effect. When they brought their Torah, prophet(p) asked them to read it for the punishment for adultery. This is what (Qur’an 5:43) you quoted earlier is talking about. As the Rabbi was reading and got to punishment for adultery, he covered it with his finger. Meaning he hide the truth. Read below Narrated Ibn 'Umar: A Jew and a Jewess were brought to Allah's Apostle on a charge of committing an illegal sexual intercourse. The Prophet asked them. "What is the legal punishment (for this sin) in your Book (Torah)?" They replied, "Our priests have innovated the punishment of blackening the faces with charcoal and Tajbiya." 'Abdullah bin Salam said, "O Allah's Apostle, tell them to bring the Torah." The Torah was brought, and then one of the Jews put his hand over the Divine Verse of the Rajam (stoning to death) and started reading what preceded and what followed it. On that, Ibn Salam said to the Jew, "Lift up your hand." Behold! The Divine Verse of the Rajam was under his hand. So Allah's Apostle ordered that the two (sinners) be stoned to death, and so they were stoned. Ibn 'Umar added: So both of them were stoned at the Balat and I saw the Jew sheltering the Jewess Sahih Bukhari 8:82:809, See also: Sahih Bukhari 6:60:79, and Sahih Bukhari 4:56:829 The prophet clearly abrogated STONING for adultery from Tawrat or Old Testament. The new Law is FLOGGING mentioned in the Qur'an. Now, take Qibla (Jerusalem) for instance, remember Muslims used to face their(Jews) Qibla before Ayah of Qur'an was revealed 2:144. It was after it is clear that Jews, not did they only reject the prophet but now CONSPIRED to kill him. That's when Allah changed the Qibla. Changing of Qibla from Jerusalem to Mecca is abrogation of old Qibla (Jerusalem). This abrogation is 100%, meaning we have nothing to do with old laws anymore. The abrogation is not part time. That's why we face Mecca today. There is no Rajm as hadd for the muslims. And Allah Knows Best |
| Re: Punishment For Adultery In Islam Is Not Stoning To Death by Empiree: 4:36pm On Aug 13, 2016 |
Now, please dont ask me for evidence for this. This is logical deduction. You see the Jews are very proud to this day and they feel they are superior. The same attitude they had in the time of the prophet(SAW) after they conspired to kill him(P), and Allah changed the Qibla from Jerusalem to Mecca. [size=14pt]"We have certainly seen the turning of your face, [O Muhammad], toward the heaven, and We will surely turn you to a qiblah with which you will be pleased. So turn your face toward al-Masjid al-Haram. And wherever you [believers] are, turn your faces toward it [in prayer]. Indeed, those who have been given the Scripture well know that it is the truth from their Lord. And Allah is not unaware of what they do."[/size] Sura 2:144 This change of Qibla is an insult to the Jews. It pains the hell out of them that they sworn that if Muhammad(p) did not pay the price Muslims would. This is why they tried to corrupt Qur'an but Allah protected it. All their efforts aborted. But then, they easily infiltrated hadith because they lived amongst Muslims. They narrated bunch of negative stuff and placed them under famous Sahaba for Muslims to accept them. So when a muslim reads hadith narrated by Umar, Ali, Ibn Abass and other famous companions, and the hadith is in conflict with Quran or dent image of Islam, we accepted these ahadith ONLY bcus it was narrated by trusted famous people. This is the biggest mistake we make as muslims And they placed these ahdith in Sahih to make it sound. This is greatest robbery of all time. This is what I was telling lexiconkabir that Jews/the 'mutashirk' as they are called have also narrated ahadith that our Ulama accepted without tough investigation just bcus they are placed under trusted companions (RohimohuAllah Ajimoi'n) |
| Re: Punishment For Adultery In Islam Is Not Stoning To Death by prevailingtruth: 5:11pm On Sep 24, 2017 |
Im going to kerp it short and sweet. If you're a muslim you'll remind the same way I am reminding you. Please read Surah 6 ayats 68 onwards. Thank you for your time. |
| Re: Punishment For Adultery In Islam Is Not Stoning To Death by Hibrahym: 11:20am On Sep 26, 2017 |
tartar9:Dear bro, Listen to Empiree at your own peril. You are correct and he is wrong. Below are 2 authentic narrations of the Prophet (ﷺ): 1. 'Abdullah b. Buraida reported on the authority of his father that Ma'iz b. Malik al-Aslami came to Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) and said: Allah's Messenger, I have wronged myself; I have committed adultery and I earnestly desire that you should purify me. He turned him away. On the following day, he (Ma'iz) again came to him and said: Allah's Messenger, I have committed adultery. Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) turned him away for the second time, and sent him to his people saying: Do you know if there is anything wrong with his mind. They denied of any such thing in him and said: We do not know him but as a wise good man among us, so far as we can judge. He (Ma'iz) came for the third time, and he (the Holy Prophet) sent him as he had done before. He asked about him and they informed him that there was nothing wrong with him or with his mind. When it was the fourth time, a ditch was dug for him and he (the Holy Prophet) pronounced judg- ment about him and he wis stoned. He (the narrator) said: There came to him (the Holy Prophet) a woman from Ghamid and said: Allah's Messenger, I have committed adultery, so purify me. He (the Holy Prophet) turned her away. On the following day she said: Allah's Messenger, Why do you turn me away? Perhaps, you turn me away as you turned away Ma'iz. By Allah, I have become pregnant. He said: Well, if you insist upon it, then go away until you give birth to (the child). When she was delivered she came with the child (wrapped) in a rag and said: Here is the child whom I have given birth to. He said: Go away and suckle him until you wean him. When she had weaned him, she came to him (the Holy Prophet) with the child who was holding a piece of bread in his hand. She said: Allah's Apostle, here is he as I have weaned him and he eats food. He (the Holy Prophet) entrusted the child to one of the Muslims and then pronounced punishment. And she was put in a ditch up to her chest and he commanded people and they stoned her. Khalid b Walid came forward with a stone which he flung at her head and there spurted blood on the face of Khalid and so he abused her. Allah's Apostle (ﷺ) heard his (Khalid's) curse that he had huried upon her. Thereupon he (the Holy Prophet) said: Khalid, be gentle. By Him in Whose Hand is my life, she has made such a repentance that even if a wrongful tax-collector were to repent, he would have been forgiven. Then giving command regarding her, he prayed over her and she was buried. [Sahih Muslim 1695 ] 2. Imran b. Husain reported that a woman from Juhaina came to Allah's Apostle (ﷺ) and she had become pregnant because of adultery. She said: Allah's Apostle, I have done something for which (prescribed punishment) must be imposed upon me, so impose that. Allah's Apostle (ﷺ) called her master and said: Treat her well, and when she delivers bring her to me. He did accordingly. Then Allah's Apostle (ﷺ) pronounced judgment about her and her clothes were tied around her and then he commanded and she was stoned to death. He then prayed over her (dead body). Thereupon Umar said to him: Allah's Apostle, you offer prayer for her, whereas she had committed adultery! Thereupon he said: She has made such a repentance that if it were to be divided among seventy men of Medina, it would be enough. Have you found any repentance better than this that she sacr ficed her life for Allah, the Majestic? [Sahih Muslim 1696] |
| Re: Punishment For Adultery In Islam Is Not Stoning To Death by Empiree: 1:51pm On Sep 26, 2017 |
Hibrahym, Who asked you for epistle? Who denied the narrations you cited? What is being scrutinized is, was rajam carried out before or after Islamic (Sharia) Law?. If those orders were given by nabi muhammad (saw) BEFORE sharia was implemented, then, it means the Divine Law enforced by nabi (saw) was old Law (Tawrah). If the orders (of stoning) were given AFTER sharia Law was ordained, then, it means it was sharia law of Islam enforced in the narrations above. Onus is on you to prove when those punishments were carried out. Is it before or after sharia law was implementated?. That's the point. No one denies nabi (saw) carried out hudud of rajm on the adulterous folks. So answer my question please with evidence. Thanks |
| Re: Punishment For Adultery In Islam Is Not Stoning To Death by ShaheedBinAliyu(m): 2:20pm On Sep 26, 2017 |
Empiree:Muslim takes evidence of his religion from quran and hadith. since its in hadith, u must accept it because its divine law. before or after sharia implementation doesnt matter |
| Re: Punishment For Adultery In Islam Is Not Stoning To Death by Empiree: 2:23pm On Sep 26, 2017 |
ShaheedBinAliyu:@bold, is that scholarship? |
| Re: Punishment For Adultery In Islam Is Not Stoning To Death by ShaheedBinAliyu(m): 2:26pm On Sep 26, 2017 |
@ Empiree . .Hadith was corrupted no doubt. that is why there are scholars of hadith who studied the science of hadith and show the world WHAT IS SAHIH, DAIF, FAKE hadith. . THAT IS WHY WE HAVE SAHIH BUKHARI AND MUSLIM. get the most trusted book after quran and read. .get ur copy |
| Re: Punishment For Adultery In Islam Is Not Stoning To Death by ShaheedBinAliyu(m): 2:34pm On Sep 26, 2017 |
Empiree:Let me simplify it for you. "During" revelation of quran and hadith to rasul and to us, THAT IS BEFORE SHARIA coz our religion laws are not yet completed for us. . . . "After" prophet muhammad death, comes forth complete sharia law.. quran and hadith. . #no m0re addition or removal# ... so? .. |
| Re: Punishment For Adultery In Islam Is Not Stoning To Death by ShaheedBinAliyu(m): 2:36pm On Sep 26, 2017 |
Empiree:Let me simplify it for you. "During" revelation of quran and hadith to rasul and to us, THAT IS BEFORE SHARIA coz our religion laws are not yet completed for us. . . . "After" prophet muhammad death, comes forth complete sharia law.. quran and hadith. . #no m0re addition or removal# ... so? .. I see no reason for you to emphasize on "when#before or after# . .if u do not accept the punishment, thats your decision. .WRONG DECISION |
| Re: Punishment For Adultery In Islam Is Not Stoning To Death by Empiree: 3:27pm On Sep 26, 2017 |
ShaheedBinAliyu:YOu may keep the rest of the sermons to yourself. Here is the point. There are three narrations on the penalty of stoning, from the famous book of the Prophetic Traditions and Narrations known as Sahih Al-Bukhari: Hadith No. 4.829: When a Jew and a Jewess who had committed the illegal sexual intercourse were brought before the Prophet (s.a.s.), he ordered them to be punished according to their Jewish laws that are recorded in the Torah. The couple was stoned to death. This Hadith was narrated by Abdullah bin Umar. Hadith No. 8.805: A married man from the tribe of Bani Aslam who had committed illegal sexual intercourse and bore witnesses four times against himself was ordered by the Prophet (s.a.s) to be stoned to death. This Hadith was narrated by Jabir bin Abdullah Al-Ansari. Hadith No. 8.804: Ash Shaibani narrates that when he asked 'Abdullah bin Abi Aufa; "Did Allah's Apostle carry out the penalty of Rajam (i.e., stoning to death)?" He said, "Yes". When the narrator asked; "Before the revelation of Surah-an-Nur or after it?" He replied, "I don't know." This Hadith is narrated by Ash Shaibani and is repeated one more time under Hadith No. 8: 824 Goes to show you rajam was abrogated upon the establishment of islamic sharia. Rajam was jewish/christian law. Now, you raised good point up there, and that is, you said After" prophet muhammad death, comes forth complete sharia law." So why do you people reject tawassul of nabi (using nabi (saw) as intercession after his death) as practiced by some muslims today?. This is just a side note. You don't need to answer it. Just to give you heads up Besides, the statement attributed to S.Umar(ra) about rajam, i can post something to show that it might be misunderstood altogether. |
| Re: Punishment For Adultery In Islam Is Not Stoning To Death by Hibrahym: 9:08am On Sep 27, 2017 |
Empiree:1. Epistle? U don't say that regarding the words of the Prophet (صلى الله عليه وسلم), except u are a Sufi anyway! 2. I mean u are a Sufi, u can deny anything out of the blue, it's ur Mantra! 3. Before or after Islaamic Law? I mean this happened in Madinah, so was it Democracy they were using? 4. What do u even mean by Sharia Law? I don't think u understand what u are saying! One of the Difference between a Prophet and a Messanger is that Messangers comes with a new Sharia. Thus Prophet(صلى الله عليه وسلم) automically is with Sharia since day one of the message. There are some part that can only implemented by the Govt, which they did when they had one in Madinah. And there are parts that can be implemented in the homes and does not necessarily require a Govt enforcement. Yes "sir", I don't know which Sharia u are talking about again! It is upon u to provide evidence of abrogation |
| Re: Punishment For Adultery In Islam Is Not Stoning To Death by Empiree: 11:19am On Sep 27, 2017 |
Hibrahym:don't waste my time please. Isn't obvious you have no idea what you talking about?. You are asking me which sharia? shows that you didn't even read to understand what this thread is about. You already made up your mind to attack sufis. Goodluck buddy. When your read and grasp the msg, then come back to refute. You have a good day. And don't forget to provide evidence that sharia law (Islamic) has always been implemented from day one according to you |
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