Consider Psalm 19:4-6a
4 Yet their voice [in evidence] goes out through all the earth, their sayings to the end of the world. Of the heavens has God made a tent for the sun,
5 Which is as a bridegroom coming out of his chamber; and it rejoices as a strong man to run his course.
6 Its going forth is from the end of the heavens, and its circuit to the ends of it;

For a long time this has been one of the points held by those who are critics of the Inspiration of the Bible. Now only GOD could have said this at such a time when science was at teething stage. It has now been discovered that contrary to science's previous claim (for which they even gave us evidences!), the sun is not stationary.

Does the Sun Move? What an interesting question. We mainly talk about everything in the solar system orbiting the Sun and celestial objects outside the solar system being in relation to the Sun. The answer to the question is : Yes. The Sun and the entire solar system orbits around the center of the Milky Way galaxy. The average velocity of the solar system is 828,000 km/hr. At that rate it will take about 230 million years to make one complete orbit around the galaxy.
www.universetoday.com

This implies that it will be illogical to base your belief on science as Samuel Morse, Newton, Faraday, Linnaeus, Boyle etc realised early.

4 Yet their voice [in evidence] goes out through all the earth, their sayings to the end of the world. Of the heavens has God made a tent for the sun,
5 Which is as a bridegroom coming out of his chamber; and it rejoices as a strong man to run his course.
6 Its going forth is from the end of the heavens, and its circuit to the ends of it;

That means the actual heaven Christians are intening packing to is in another part of the universe where the milky way passes through in the event of its rotation or revolving?

That means in the future, science can actually dig its way there?

So interpreting that verses of yours literally shows the plausibility of human not actually dieing to get to the part of the universe(heaven) since it is existing in physical realm not in spiritual realm as written in other part of the bible which is why "Its going forth is from the end of the heavens" and ''Of the heavens has God made a tent for the sun" as the verse said


Delusion is allowed





Davein
Johnydon22
Plaetton

There is no mention in the bible of any celestial object that is not visible with the naked eye from earth. The Bible appears to be quite oblivious to the existence of everything in the universe that does not fall into that category. Accordingly, there is a story in it where the Sun is alleged to have ceased all motion and thus provided up to 24 continuous hours of sunlight at a single location, the sun being assumed to revolve around the earth.

Reconcile the above with your OP.

menesheh:



That means the actual heaven Christians are intening packing to is in another part of the universe where the milky way passes through in the event of its rotation or revolving?

That means in the future, science can actually dig its way there?

So interpreting that verses of yours literally shows the plausibility of human not actually dieing to get to the part of the universe(heaven) since it is existing in physical realm not in spiritual realm as written in other part of the bible which is why "Its going forth is from the end of the heavens" and ''Of the heavens has God made a tent for the sun" as the verse said


Delusion is allowed





Davein
Johnydon22
Plaetton

heavens (sky) is not the same as Heaven.

Scholar8200:
heavens (sky) is not the same as Heaven.

In fact, sky was exactly what the ancients had in mind when they used the word "heaven".

Scholar8200:
Consider Psalm 19:4-6a
4 Yet their voice [in evidence] goes out through all the earth, their sayings to the end of the world. Of the heavens has God made a tent for the sun,
5 Which is as a bridegroom coming out of his chamber; and it rejoices as a strong man to run his course.
6 Its going forth is from the end of the heavens, and its circuit to the ends of it;

So you read this verse and the interpretation you give to it is, the writer must have implied the solar system was moving around the center of the milky way galaxy...

Scholar8200:
heavens (sky) is not the same as Heaven.

That's arrogant if you interprete heaven in that your different ways as against the meaning as inscribe in the Bible

plaetton:

In fact, sky was exactly what the ancients had in mind when they used the word "heaven".

Not really! 2 Chronicles 7:13,14. Vs 13 shows God shutting up heaven (sky) Vs 14 shows God hearing prayer from heaven (described by Jesus as where God's Throne is.) the context helps in understanding which is being referred to.

plaetton:

In fact, sky was exactly what the ancients had in mind when they used the word "heaven".

Not really! 2 Chronicles 7:13,14. Vs 13 shows God shutting up heaven (sky whence comes rain) Vs 14 shows God hearing prayer from heaven (described by Jesus as where God's Throne is.) the context helps in understanding which is the reference.

menesheh:



That's arrogant if you interprete heaven in that your different ways as against the meaning as inscribe in the Bible

Not really! 2 Chronicles 7:13,14. Vs 13 shows God shutting up heaven (sky) Vs 14 shows God hearing prayer from heaven (described by Jesus as where God's Throne is.) the context helps in understanding which is being referred to.

johnydon22:


So you read this verse and the interpretation you give to it is, the writer must have implied the solar system was moving around the center of the milky way galaxy...

As verified by science. Note that neither the biblical quote nor the website linked this to day and night.

Scholar8200:
Not really! 2 Chronicles 7:13,14. Vs 13 shows God shutting up heaven (sky) Vs 14 shows God hearing prayer from heaven (described by Jesus as where God's Throne is.) the context helps in understanding which is being referred to.

Big laugh.
What context?
The one you flipped out of your behind?

Scholar8200:
As verified by science. Note that neither the biblical quote nor the website linked this to day and night.

Nope read that verse again and tell me it stipulates a solar system that is going around the milky way galaxy as you desperately is begging it to mean... You are just conjuring up your own meaning of a verse that is basically not even in the league of what you want it to mean...

thats why i asked, so after reading this verse, you interpret it to mean the writer was referring to a solar system revolving around a galaxy... Lol.. laughable..

maybe you would interpret twinkle twinkle little star to mean big bang soon...

#This is so not worth my time..

finofaya:
There is no mention in the bible of any celestial object that is not visible with the naked eye from earth.

There is but I wont digress this thread on that.

Accordingly, there is a story in it where the Sun is alleged to have ceased all motion and thus provided up to 24 continuous hours of sunlight at a single location, the sun being assumed to revolve around the earth.

Reconcile the above with your OP.

First, neither the passage nor the website links the movement of the sun to day and night. Secondly, I believe the implication of the passage you quoted implies that there was a halt in the entire solar system (if we would be logical): since both the sun and moon stood still. Hence I am sure the earth too was involved since it's part of the solar system.

johnydon22:


Nope read that verse again and tell me it stipulates a solar system that is going around the milky way galaxy as you desperately is begging it to mean... You are just conjuring up your own meaning of a verse that is basically not even in the league of what you want it to mean...

thats why i asked, so after reading this verse, you interpret it to mean the writer was referring to a solar system revolving around a galaxy... Lol.. laughable..

maybe you would interpret twinkle twinkle little star to mean big bang soon...

#This is so not worth my time..

Guess you either did not notice the website or chose to ignore it because you would have preferred it not being there. Bye for now.

plaetton:

Big laugh.
What context?
The one you flipped out of your behind?

I guess progress will be made if your criticism will be based on the issues raised rather than a resorting to obscenities.

Scholar8200:
I guess progress will be made if your criticism will be based on the issues raised rather than a resorting to obscenities.

You haven't raised any issues here, except making up contexts as you go.
Which Is what blind faith religion is about.

Scholar8200:
There is but I wont digress this thread on that.

Well, the thread has called into question the extent of the bible's knowledge of the universe. I don't think it'll be a digression to state where the bible mentioned things we can't see in the sky with an unaided eye.

First, neither the passage nor the website links the movement of the sun to day and night.

I don't understand you. There is a claim that the sun stood still and the result was more hours of daylight, which can only mean that the movement of the sun is responsible for day and night. What else would you have us believe it means?

Secondly, I believe the implication of the passage you quoted implies that there was a halt in the entire solar system (if we would be logical): since both the sun and moon stood still. Hence I am sure the earth too was involved since it's part of the solar system.

Dude, you're clutching at straws here. The report is simply that the sun stood still. No mention of the moon, or the earth or the solar system. The movement of the moon doesn't even have any effect on sunlight, so its not logical that the moon also stood still in order to guarantee uninterrupted sunlight. Similarly, unless the sun revolves around the earth, it is not logical for the sun to stand still in order to guarantee uninterrupted sunlight.

Try again. Tell me how a bible that obtains more daylight by stopping the revolution of the sun around the earth could have known that the sun actually revolves around the centre of a galaxy.

Scholar8200:
heavens (sky) is not the same as Heaven.

Really?
Why then did God prevent those men from getting to the sky through the Tower of Babel? Why was he scared that man would see him in the sky?

Why were they even building the tower? Was it not to see God? Were they thinking God who you said reside in heaven would visit the heavens(sky)?


Forget this your heavens and heaven thing, those who built the tower believed God resides in the sky.
They believed heaven was a physical place they can take a ride to via the tower.

With the advancement is science, modern Christian realised that there is no one in the sky. So they are now taking heaven farther into the Galaxies, some are now claiming it is a spiritual location. They should go tell that to the biblical builders of the Tower of Babel.

finofaya:

Dude, you're clutching at straws here. The report is simply that the sun stood still. No mention of the moon, or the earth or the solar system. The movement of the moon doesn't even have any effect on sunlight, so its not logical that the moon also stood still in order to guarantee uninterrupted sunlight. Similarly, unless the sun revolves around the earth, it is not logical for the sun to stand still in order to guarantee uninterrupted sunlight

. "And the sun stood still, and the moon stayed, until the people had avenged themselves upon their enemies. .. . in the midst of heaven,." (Joshua 10:13). This verse states that the Sun and moon stood still. If you look at the fact that these are part of a system[comprising interdependent components], then it is only reasonable that the entire system had to halt for the petition to be answered.
It's possible that the person who made the petition did not have perfect knowledge of exactly how it happened being unlearned(we can pardon the primitive idea of the petitioner being a liberated slave involved in about 40years wandering in the wilderness.). Even the author of the Psalm quoted might not have understood what he said under inspiration. Also event happened a number of millenia b4 the AD period. However, the intricacies of how it actually happened is as explained.

franconian:


Really?
Why then did God prevent those men from getting to the sky through the Tower of Babel? Why was he scared that man would see him in the sky?

Why were they even building the tower? Was it not to see God? Were they thinking God who you said reside in heaven would visit the heavens(sky)?


Forget this your heavens and heaven thing, those who built the tower believed God resides in the sky.
They believed heaven was a physical place they can take a ride to via the tower.

With the advancement is science, modern Christian realised that they is no one in the sky. So they are now taking heaven farther into the Galaxies, some are now claiming it is a spiritual location.

Can you help by quoting where it was stated that God was scared? I believe the diversion from the purpose of replenishing the earth was what prompted the Divine action. "And they said, Go to, let us build us a city and a tower, whose top may reach unto heaven; and let us make us a name, lest we be scattered abroad upon the face of the whole earth." (Genesis 11:4). I understand this issue has a recent thread.

Just having an input here without knowing much about it.

There are three heavens mentioned in the Bible,
the first is our atmosphere where the birds fly,
the second is space where the planets are,
the third is where God lives.

In the Bible it says something like the Sun rises in the morning,
but that is the way of speaking, the easy way of saying it,
the sun doesn't actually rise, the Earth turns.

However with the Sun being stationary in our-it's own solar system and all the planets circling it, this solar system is moving in the galaxy.

Really, Google it.

Scholar8200:
. "And the sun stood still, and the moon stayed, until the people had avenged themselves upon their enemies. .. . in the midst of heaven,." (Joshua 10:13). This verse states that the Sun and moon stood still. If you look at the fact that these are part of a system[comprising interdependent components], then it is only reasonable that the entire system had to halt for the petition to be answered.
It's possible that the person who made the petition did not have perfect knowledge of exactly how it happened being unlearned(we can pardon the primitive idea of the petitioner being a liberated slave involved in about 40years wandering in the wilderness.). Even the author of the Psalm quoted might not have understood what he said under inspiration. Also event happened a number of millenia b4 the AD period. However, the intricacies of how it actually happened is as explained.

You're being evasive, like you don't have the answers and you hope the question will just leave eventually.

finofaya:


You're being evasive, like you don't have the answers and you hope the question will just leave eventually.

Could you specify the question evaded by my last reply? You alleged that the moon was not mentioned and I quoted the verse in question where it was pointed out that the moon also stood still.

A system (solar system inclusive) comprises an interconnecting network of components hence there is no way the sun and moon will be stayed while the earth will continue! Job 38:33a"Do you know the ordinances of the heavens?" Was a question God asked Job and it suggests two things:
1. It establishes the fact of the solar system and alludes to the fact that the interconnected components therein are guided by ordinances(principles);
2. At those primitive times, their knowledge of such things was highly limited thus establishing the fact of Inspiration.

If you consider the lead post, I did not say the writer of that psalm or any one knew the Galaxy,sun movement etc, the thrust was that at such primitive time, only an Inspiration from GOD could have led the speaker say such things.

Scholar8200:

Could you specify the question evaded by my last reply? You alleged that the moon was not mentioned and I quoted the verse in question where it was pointed out that the moon also stood still.

finofaya:

Tell me how a bible that obtains more daylight by stopping the revolution of the sun around the earth could have known that the sun actually revolves around the centre of a galaxy.

There it is.

If the Bible is inspired by God, there can be no excuses for any errors it contains. Stop telling me about the writers of the Bible, unless God is not the writer.

You seem to be giving yourself a lot of leeway with your interpretations of biblical events. Even the mention of the moon in the verse does not justify assuming that every other thing stayed still. You see, the Bible does not know what a solar system is, much less how to make one stand still.

Biblical events, among other things, comprise records of historical dealings of God with man. Hence if in stating those historical events, the need arises to quote specific words spoken by men, then understand that that is what it is- a quotation(which will expectedly reflect the culture & level of understanding at that time) and its inclusion is not without a purpose.

Those historical events gives us an understanding of the immutable Divine nature and how we are to relate with Same. Now question is how do we recognise the words quoting man and the ones inspired? The context reveals this. In Joshua's case, we have the exact words uttered in prayer quoted. The psalm in the lead post was a Psalm by a king/prophet. A psalm is a sacred,inspired song for different purposes.

Now Joshua's request you alluded to as it concerns the sun and moon standing still was according to his level of understanding which was not scripturally or scientifically correct.
The language that Joshua uses in addressing the sun and moon is the language of ordinary observation still used today in the scientific age. Probably Joshua and his contemporaries thought of the sun as moving around the earth, but his language should not be pressed to construct a "view of the universe" any more than should todays reference to the rising and setting of the sun (Marten Woodstra, The Book of Joshua, Grand Rapids, Eerdmans: 1981, p. 175)
It is not necessary to assume Joshua was scientifically sophisticated. It is more likely that God honored the spirit of his request than to assume Joshua had some scientific insight that was not shared by the people of his day.(Don Stewart)

You seem to be giving yourself a lot of leeway with your interpretations of biblical events. Even the mention of the moon in the verse does not justify assuming that every other thing stayed still. You see, the Bible does not know what a solar system is, much less how to , ake one stand still.

The Bible may not call it Solar system however the reference to the components of the Solar system is admissible for this purpose.
However, the focus of this thread is the fact that the sun moves as against the fact held by science and sceptics, against the psalm in question. Interestingly, the psalm quoted does not link such movement to day and night.

Scholar8200:
. "And the sun stood still, and the moon stayed, until the people had avenged themselves upon their enemies. .. . in the midst of heaven,." (Joshua 10:13). This verse states that the Sun and moon stood still. If you look at the fact that these are part of a system[comprising interdependent components], then it is only reasonable that the entire system had to halt for the petition to be answered.
It's possible that the person who made the petition did not have perfect knowledge of exactly how it happened being unlearned(we can pardon the primitive idea of the petitioner being a liberated slave involved in about 40years wandering in the wilderness.). Even the author of the Psalm quoted might not have understood what he said under inspiration. Also event happened a number of millenia b4 the AD period. However, the intricacies of how it actually happened is as explained.

You would be right to state that the Psalmist had no clue of what he had written else, he would not have written such. We could say it was a tad excessive for the good Lord to bring the intergalactic system to a shuddering halt just so Joshua could defeat a ragtag army who fought with spears, sticks and stones.

Consider the implications of such a halt, on the earth for instance spinning along on its axis at a speed of roughly 1,800 km/hr, not to speak of the moon and its gravitational pull on the earth, consider the myriad of galaxies, planets, stars and satellites each moving in Keplerian orbits exerting gravitational pull on one another keeping them in orbit, that would have had to obey the "stop" order, the results would have been catastrophic. Far better to say Joshua and his guys were having such a great bloodthirsty funtime killing folks.....that time stood still.

Sarassin:


You would be right to state that the Psalmist had no clue of what he had written else, he would not have written such. We could say it was a tad excessive for the good Lord to bring the intergalactic system to a shuddering halt just so Joshua could defeat a ragtag army who fought with spears, sticks and stones.

Consider the implications of such a halt, on the earth for instance spinning along on its axis at a speed of roughly 1,800 km/hr, not to speak of the moon and its gravitational pull on the earth, consider the myriad of galaxies, planets, stars and satellites each moving in Keplerian orbits exerting gravitational pull on one another keeping them in orbit, that would have had to obey the "stop" order, the results would have been catastrophic.

Nice analysis! But God created them all and they remain subject to HIM.

plaetton:


You haven't raised any issues here, except making up contexts as you go.
Which Is what blind faith religion is about.

Describe such made-up contexts you noticed.
13 If I shut up heaven so no rain falls, or if I command locusts to devour the land, or if I send pestilence among My people,
14 If My people, who are called by My name, shall humble themselves, pray, seek, crave, and require of necessity My face and turn from their wicked ways, then will I hear from heaven, forgive their sin, and heal their land.(AMP)

13 When I close the sky so that there is no rain, or command the locusts to destroy the land, or send sicknesses to my people 14 and if my people who are called by my name become humble and pray, and look for me, and turn away from their evil ways, then I will hear them from heaven. I will forgive their sin and heal their land.(ETR)

Scholar8200:
Describe such made-up contexts you noticed.
13 If I shut up heaven so no rain falls, or if I command locusts to devour the land, or if I send pestilence among My people,
14 If My people, who are called by My name, shall humble themselves, pray, seek, crave, and require of necessity My face and turn from their wicked ways, then will I hear from heaven, forgive their sin, and heal their land.(AMP)

13 When I close the sky so that there is no rain, or command the locusts to destroy the land, or send sicknesses to my people 14 and if my people who are called by my name become humble and pray, and look for me, and turn away from their evil ways, then I will hear them from heaven. I will forgive their sin and heal their land.(ETR)

The really funny thing here is that skypappa is supposedly talking in the first person , in both instances, he is using the word " heaven".
But here you are, pulling context out of your bottom to tell us the he, your omni omni skypappa, could not find words in his infinite vocabulary, to convey his mind.

Scholar8200:
Nice analysis! But God created them all and they remain subject to HIM.

Ok, so lets explore this a bit further. If we accept that God created everything, i.e the universe and all the celestial bodies are subject to Him, and also your reasonable assertion that the entire universe must have come to a standstill in order to accomodate Joshua's dilemma. What then would you consider the consequences of stopping the universe?

I say bringing the earth to an instant stationary position from a speed of 1800 km/hr would first throw the earth out of its orbit, and send the earth spinning aimlessly into the great empyrean, it would bring about intense atmospheric action and the lack of gravitational pull would make for the seas to rise up virtually instantaneously. Extend a similar action to the sun, knocked off what we now know to be its cosmic yearly orbit, possibly drawing the earth closer to its sphere or the opposite, consider the effects of intense electromagnetic flares and then multiply these actions across the universe. I would say the consequence is utter chaos.

Is it the case that Christians would sooner rearrange the universe than accept that a bible writer possibly imbibed of the wine of the grape took a bit of a liberty in writing history?

Do you still think God pressed the pause button on the universe?

johnw74:

Just having an input here without knowing much about it.

There are three heavens mentioned in the Bible,
the first is our atmosphere where the birds fly,
the second is space where the planets are,
the third is where God lives.

In the Bible it says something like the Sun rises in the morning,
but that is the way of speaking, the easy way of saying it,
the sun doesn't actually rise, the Earth turns.

However with the Sun being stationary in our-it's own solar system and all the planets circling it, this solar system is moving in the galaxy.

Really, Google it.

Someone has seen Eric hovinds "seminars"....you're a creationist? Or do you just follow his(Eric hovind) apologetic?