why the argument here? the govt of Nigeria is not deregulating because of that amorphous group called "market forces". Who are those "market forces"? Members of that very government who have sold our oil fields to themselves and their cronies!!!

$1 = N180+

Fuel Increase,

It's time,

damola1:

$1 = N180+

Fuel Increase,

It's time,

If na joke, stop am oo. 180 naira. please tell me ur joking

where u dey?

i bought it 175 last friday, and learnt it toppled 180 already,

120 drove to 180,  50% increament on all imported products, thank you mr. yarraddua

Same thing with GBP, 245naira to 1GBP,  from a standard 180,  cos GBP dropped on its own,

It's really time,

damola1:

where u dey?

i bought it 175 last friday, and learnt it toppled 180 already,

120 drove to 180, 50% increament on all imported products, thank you mr. yarraddua

Same thing with GBP, 245naira to 1GBP, from a standard 180, cos GBP dropped on its own,

It's really time,

Are you guys serious. I'm guessing this is the Black Market rate right?
I thought the official rate was 147 naira to the dollar

Atown you dey naija? e be like say u know wetin dey happen.

damola1:

where u dey?

i bought it 175 last friday, and learnt it toppled 180 already,

120 drove to 180,  50% increament on all imported products, thank you mr. yarraddua

Same thing with GBP, 245naira to 1GBP,  from a standard 180,  cos GBP dropped on its own,

It's really time,

Does Yar'adua now control exchange rates? The drop is clearly due to oil price reduction, so y'all should chill.

Yar'adua is being pragmatic - oil revenue is dropping, we need to optimise whatever is left - cut out wastage such as this subsidy thing. Hopefully the funds will be applied to the appropriate areas.

No mean to disrespect, but shut up debosky.

Who is to blame if not the head of the family, I say shut up once more, we are talking abt something that'll increase suffering by 50%,

We hear what america is doing, everyday na so so obama dis, obama dat, buying citigroup, saving the economy,

Our own case, only suffer suffer, now fuel go up again,

No light, nothing, I say shut up once more,

All this foreigners who assume they are Nigerians, just talk anyhow,

Tell me, how is obama connected to the financial mess or iraq, oh, he's suppose to sit down and allow the minister of finance fix it, or the gov. of central bank,

Once more shut up!

ah sorry oh damola

I didn't know Yar'adua could control the price of oil from his office in Aso Rock. I didn't know exchange rates can be controlled by pressing that little red button beside his bed. 

Your crass lack of comprehension of foreign exchange dynamics is sad. Why not contest for president so you can appreciate the naira?

Ignorant lout. 

debosky:


I think we should remove the subsidy - that is the only way we will ever have refineries that will be attractive to external investors. Without that, they will continue to be run inefficiently, because the same government agencies responsible for managing them are run by guys who will make money by getting a petrol importing contract from the government.

We need to plug all these avenues for corruption - since there is no more government subsidy, we can easily trace how much it costs to import the product to how much it costs at the pump - the companies like Oando, Total and others are public companies and we will be able to see clearly what they are making off petrol sales.

You have a fascist idea presently. Removing subsidy in order to create oil market transparency as indicated from your posts in Nigeria will not work. When you talk of external investors, who do you mean? Are they not the same scroungers around the corridor of power in Nigeria? In a country solely dependent on the revenue from oil, you surely believe there are the ''external investors.''

If I stated that subsidy removal will not work, it is because:
[list]
[li]Investors need a working environment thoroughly functional to survive in a country like Nigeria. Is the environment enabling for such? NO! Example: No steady power supply, investors will have to depend on making available, their alternative power supply. This would only sky-rocket the price of services provided to Nigerians.[/li]

[li]Who is going to ensure security of lives and property of investors? Investors would have to make room for their own security of property and various other logistics. This also incurs costs. Would the government be ready to make room for such, when its own citizens are not enjoying even that at the moment? I do not think so.[/li]
[/list]

What is the plausible way out? Let the ''subsidy'' remain, create an open-market system with effective monitoring policies.  Close all borders against oil bunkering with appropriate measures set in place to deal with deterrents. We have been talking about this issue for years, still we close our eyes against it and inflict the punishment upon the citizenry. This is not fair. If some idiots are utilizing the loopholes which the government cannot address, why inflict the punishment on its citizens?

I quite reason with your idea, however, not until when the fundamental operational mechanisms such as steady power supply are set in place, removing subsidy is the most idiotic thing the government can think of doing right now.

See, This is my last post on this, I will get back to my movie afterwards, even if I change your perspective, it don't change nothing, It's pointless wasting time on things you have little or no control over, just waste time,

I prayed for Nigeria today, e go berra, dats all I gats to say, same thing I am sure my father said when I was born,

There's no point talking grammar, God bless Nigeria, it's time,

See, This is my last post on this, I will get back to my movie afterwards, even if I change your perspective, it don't change nothing, It's pointless wasting time on things you have little or no control over, just waste time,

I prayed for Nigeria today, e go berra, dats all I gats to say, same thing I am sure my father said when I was born,

There's no point talking grammar, God bless Nigeria, it's time,

No be today i begin hear these

Let the ''subsidy'' remain, create an open-market system with effective monitoring policies.

Create an open-market system while leaving the subsidy in place?  

Close all borders against oil bunkering with appropriate measures set in place to deal with deterrents.

Instead of creating incentives for smugglers looking to arbitrage, it's best to remove the distortions to the pricing mechanism - the subsidy.

Subsidies are symptomatic of dysfunctional societies. It's the reason why Nigeria, the most corrupt nation on the planet, has a subsidy in the first place. It creates avenues for corruption and leaves the country with an inefficient fuel supply system.

On second thought,

We need a civilian coup de ta, that might work,

TalkSmith:

You have a fascist idea presently. Removing subsidy in order to create oil market transparency as indicated from your posts in Nigeria will not work. When you talk of external investors, who do you mean? Are they not the same scroungers around the corridor of power in Nigeria? In a country solely dependent on the revenue from oil, you surely believe there are the ''external investors.''

If I stated that subsidy removal will not work, it is because:
[list]
[li]Investors need a working environment thoroughly functional to survive in a country like Nigeria. Is the environment enabling for such? NO! Example: No steady power supply, investors will have to depend on making available, their alternative power supply. This would only sky-rocket the price of services provided to Nigerians.[/li]

[li]Who is going to ensure security of lives and property of investors? Investors would have to make room for their own security of property and various other logistics. This also incurs costs. Would the government be ready to make room for such, when its own citizens are not enjoying even that at the moment? I do not think so.[/li]
[/list]

fascist? I think that is a tad harsh  - I'd rather say allow capitalism in the oil distribution system, just like we did for telecoms. SIMPLE.

Investors need a 'working environment'? Didn't the GSM companies progress in the 'working environment' that we have? The key is this - assurance of freedom to set the prices of your products. That is what we need.

The refineries are there - nowhere as old as the refineries in other parts of the world that are still working. Investors with management ability can come down and rapidly turn them around and produce in-house. The current system demands nothing of the ingenuity of our local oil companies, except to distribute what they or the NNPC import, and collecting a fat subsidy cheque from the government each month.

Alternative power supply? No refinery takes power from the grid, there is usually onsite generation, so that point is moot - basic infrastructure is in place, we just need to expand them to bring on additional capacity, only when you feel you can recoup costs will you do that.

Security and other costs can be quantified - what we really require is COMPETENT MANAGEMENT of our local refining capacity, something the government is incapable of doing

What is the plausible way out? Let the ''subsidy'' remain, create an open-market system with effective monitoring policies.  Close all borders against oil bunkering with appropriate measures set in place to deal with deterrents. We have been talking about this issue for years, still we close our eyes against it and inflict the punishment upon the citizenry. This is not fair. If some idiots are utilizing the loopholes which the government cannot address, why inflict the punishment on its citizens?

I quite reason with your idea, however, not until when the fundamental operational such as steady power supply are set in place, removing subsidy is the most idiotic thing the government can think of doing right now.

'effective' monitoring policies? The government cannot manage simple refineries or even quantify how much is spent on subsidies. This money is better spent on improving transport systems to remove the abysmal wastage of time on bad roads - reduced journey times will reduce petrol consumption and lessen the blow of (potential) higher prices.

This is not a matter of 'punishment'. It is punishment to continue to give money that could be  used to fix vital systems such as power, roads and the like on a nebulous subsidy that no one can quantify and no one can identify the true beneficiaries.

Power supply has little if anything to do with petroleum products production and supply, and thus cannot be used as an excuse. As I mentioned earlier, refineries have in-house power generation as standard.

Let me put it this way - if the money being 'wasted' on subsidies can be channelled to achieve steady power supply, wouldn't that make sense?

Before even debating prices, we need to act with information - how much does it cost to get a litre of petrol to pump NOW? With that available, then we can know just how much more or less petrol will cost at deregulated prices. Anything outside of that is pointless. Government will always invent spurious subsidy levels that cannot be verified - close off that source of corruption and we are better off.

Better the subsidy is gone.

Shey they have seen the light, i only hope they dont hoard it.

what am i saying. .if hopes were horses. . .

debosky:

fascist? I think that is a tad harsh  - I'd rather say allow capitalism in the oil distribution system, just like we did for telecoms. SIMPLE.

Yes I maintain you have a fascist ideology on this subject matter. I knew sooner than later you do want to chip-in the point of the telecoms industry to further strengthen your argument. I need to remind you that MTN have relocated their main office back to South Africa. What made Econet, Vodacom, etc not to thrive in Nigeria? How functional is the working capacity of Nitel today? Please mull over these things and get back to me.

debosky:
Investors need a 'working environment'? Didn't the GSM companies progress in the 'working environment' that we have? The key is this - assurance of freedom to set the prices of your products. That is what we need.

Please stop equating apples with guava. They are two different areas of functions. GSM can be regulated easily by the government without need of external forces. Oil has external factors set in place, such as OPEC. Probably you are oblivious to the fact that when subsidy is removed from the Nigeria oil market, it would have also have an impact on the GSM companies. Partly due to the success of the GSM industry in Nigeria is the subsidy on oil (Take it or leave it)! You are simply seeing this matter from the angle of various independent oil market struggling to own the market, whereas, greediness to make money is inherent with the oil business.

debosky:
The refineries are there - nowhere as old as the refineries in other parts of the world that are still working. Investors with management ability can come down and rapidly turn them around and produce in-house. The current system demands nothing of the ingenuity of our local oil companies, except to distribute what they or the NNPC import, and collecting a fat subsidy cheque from the government each month.

You are a jester! Please tell me when last the refineries worked? If you make void my option of ''effective monitoring policies,'' I see your point of good management ability as a child's play. The same refineries Obasanjo spent billions of naira on to make functional throughout his tenure, you now tell me: ''Investors with management ability can come down and rapidly turn them around''! How amazing to see such work in Nigeria! What the current system does, is for the Government to regulate the price, based on the subsidy given. However, loopholes covering oil bunkering have been left un-attended which makes even your so-called 'local oil companies' to make profit from thereby.

You are really failing to give me a cogent point and coherent argument as to why subsidy should be removed.

debosky:
Alternative power supply? No refinery takes power from the grid, there is usually onsite generation, so that point is moot - basic infrastructure is in place, we just need to expand them to bring on additional capacity, only when you feel you can recoup costs will you do that.

On-site generation of power based on what? Answer: Subsidies set in place by the Government. Removing the subsidies only means the cost of operation going up! This is then played out on its consumers. SIMPLE.

debosky:
Security and other costs can be quantified - what we really require is COMPETENT MANAGEMENT of our local refining capacity, something the government is incapable of doing

Who is responsible for this ''COMPETENT MANAGEMENT" in Nigeria?  PLEASE!

debosky:
'effective' monitoring policies? The government cannot manage simple refineries or even quantify how much is spent on subsidies. This money is better spent on improving transport systems to remove the abysmal wastage of time on bad roads - reduced journey times will reduce petrol consumption and lessen the blow of (potential) higher prices.

We have been spending money on improving transport, please tell me over the years what has been the outcome to it? Government after government create budget for road maintenance and repairs, yet tomorrow, there will still be road accidents across the nation Nigeria. There is no point there SIR. We are simply creating room for more misappropriation of funds.

debosky:
This is not a matter of 'punishment'. It is punishment to continue to give money that could be  used to fix vital systems such as power, roads and the like on a nebulous subsidy that no one can quantify and no one can identify the true beneficiaries.

True beneficiaries of subsidy has been the masses so far. It is just a shame that some greedy beings have exploited the loopholes with the subsidies to enhance their own pecuniary status. And for that, it is the citizenry that must suffer! What a shame on the government!

debosky:
Power supply has little if anything to do with petroleum products production and supply, and thus cannot be used as an excuse. As I mentioned earlier, refineries have in-house power generation as standard.

I think I have addressed this issue above. Furthermore, developed nations, use GAS for power supply. So stating that ''power supply has little if anything to with petroleum products production and supply'' is totally WRONG of you. It is just a pity that Nigeria has not utilized in full capacity the potentials with Gas for power supply.

debosky:
Let me put it this way - if the money being 'wasted' on subsidies can be channelled to achieve steady power supply, wouldn't that make sense?

NO! It would not make sense. If the billions of Naira, Obasanjo spent on improving power supply cannot be accounted for, how logical would subsidies be channeled to achieving that?

debosky:
Before even debating prices, we need to act with information - how much does it cost to get a litre of petrol to pump NOW? With that available, then we can know just how much more or less petrol will cost at deregulated prices. Anything outside of that is pointless. Government will always invent spurious subsidy levels that cannot be verified - close off that source of corruption and we are better off.

I have little or no information to this. I am least qualified to respond to this. Hope you do not mind if I do not TALK about it?

4 Play:

Create an open-market system while leaving the subsidy in place?  

Would you proffer your counter-argument to my statement? I am subject to learning anything new on this matter.

4 Play:
Instead of creating incentives for smugglers looking to arbitrage, it's best to remove the distortions to the pricing mechanism - the subsidy.

Subsidies are symptomatic of dysfunctional societies. It's the reason why Nigeria, the most corrupt nation on the planet, has a subsidy in the first place. It creates avenues for corruption and leaves the country with an inefficient fuel supply system.

And could you please prove or state how smugglers will still not pilfer or arbitrage oil even if subsidies are removed? Subsidies are symptomatic of dysfunctional societies? I guess the US and UK would be reasoning along your point right now.

debosky:

Does Yar'adua now control exchange rates? The drop is clearly due to oil price reduction, so y'all should chill.

Yar'adua is being pragmatic - oil revenue is dropping, we need to optimise whatever is left - cut out wastage such as this subsidy thing. Hopefully the funds will be applied to the appropriate areas.

I wonder oh, Oil subsidy that ends up translating into illegal exports for government officials.
When the price of Oil sky rockets again as it surely will Nigeria will be the same, like debo said let market forces play out

I personally think this time around FG is well intentioned by doing this. i think the deregulation of the sector allows room for the country to gain in development those monies otherwise intended for subsidy for the benefit of other sector like health care or education. And the prices at the pump will always be fair because of competition and also because local refineries will operate normally therefore the companies will save money from the fact that they don't have to transport the refined products from so far. and i believe this will even create some jobs in the country.

from the MASSIVE EDUCATION i have recieved from this forum, it seems most poeple feels it is better for the president to sit in his office and hike up prices and hope it becomes unprofitable for smugglers while nigerians feel the pain than to just grab d bull by the horn and tackle smuggling, at least reducing it!!!! GOD SAVE US!!!

First, whether deregulation is the right way to go or not, I doubt that the right time to do it is in the middle of what has been termed the worst economic down turn since the great depression.

Second, can anyone who has lived in Nigeria for any considerable length of time tell me that the approximately 700 billion Nara that will be "saved" will actually be channelled towards meaningful infrastructure projects or anything profitable to the Nigerian people? I doubt this. I'd wager that some government folk are about to become about 700 billion Nara richer.

Third, for those that say that subsidies are symptomatic of sub-par economies, I beg to differ. The US has farm subsidies for certain reasons and even with the constant outcry form several other countries and even sectors in the US, the subsidies have remained.

Finally, the current economic downturn should have taught us that economics is not a science but an art. Market forces correcting bad economic indices is a fantasy that has no guaranties of fulfilment. The prevalent issue is corruption andmismanagement in the oil sector and not the subsidies. Let's fix the most pressing issues first instead of throwing away the baby with the bath water!

sometimes, I begin 2 think, Biafra shld hv seceded 4rm dis entity called Nigeria

Nigerian leaders r all criminals; they hv removed subsidies on petroleum products becos of the dwindling oil prices in the international market which has yielded less money 4 dem 2 share. dis so called money 2 be accrued 4rm subsidies will be embezzled as usual. it is high time we start thinkin of diversifying other areas of the economy away 4rm oil. d only solution 2 the nigerian problem is mutiny. there's subsidy everywhere in d world (in d UK- health, US-agriculture), why 9ja go different

Hmmm. I am fed-up with Nigeria. May God save our souls.

Which way Nigeria
Which way to go,

I weep for the country, when are we going to get out of the woods?
Anyway, i've just confirmed that its not yet time to go back home!

was there ever any subsidy in the first place?

In think deregulation is one of the ways to checkmate corruption at the NNPC. The amount of fuel imported is inflated and they get more money from the FG to finance the so called subsidy.

However, I think its coming at the wrong time. If only our refineries have been privatised, it would make a lot more sense because we would be producing enough to meet our domestic needs and PMS would not retail for anything beyond N40 going by the international crude oil price.

dappssee:

In think deregulation is one of the ways to checkmate corruption at the NNPC. The amount of fuel imported is inflated and they get more money from the FG to finance the so called subsidy.

However, I think its coming at the wrong time. If only our refineries have been privatised, it would make a lot more sense because we would be producing enough to meet our domestic needs and PMS would not retail for anything beyond N40 going by the international crude oil price.

Young man what do you know about deregulation ? Privatization is not and can never be the way forward in an economy as faulty as Nigeria.

revolution is crying.

hollandis:

Young man what do you know about deregulation ? Privatization is not and can never be the way forward in an economy as faulty as Nigeria.

What do you know about privatization?

Look at the telecoms industry? Isn't it liberalized. I think people that benefit from the rot and corruption of the NNPC will not support selling those refineries. They never function despite all the billions that go into TAM (Turn Around Maintenance). So who is fooling who?
You import one million litres of fuel and tell me you've impoted one and a half million litres so the subsidy on half a million litres goes into private pockets.

For me selling those damned refineries is long overdue and this should pave the way for deregulation.

If you have a better suggestion, say it and give a reason for it. I hate it when people argue without a rationale