TRAPQUEEN1:
I would really love to know where you get your stats from? I guess same thing can be said about 90% of males like you who attended single sex schools have been involved in one gay act or the other as a result because of the guilt and the actual fact that they prefer men then women, that's why they are always angry and pretend that they hate gays?

For some reasons ladies are more pacifistic than guys. There are more lesbians that male homosexuals by a long shot.
Single sex female schools have a lot more lesbians than single sex male schools have homosexuals. Most guys will resist homosexuality without thinking.

cococandy:


That's the point.

My morality should not be the standard for others.
It is based on my Christain morality that I would say yes a gay Christain is commiting a sin.

Taking it beyond that to actively campaign against gay folks being together means I also consider people of other religions who try to force their morality on me as doing the right thing.

The the phrase "the other person" mean nothing to you? Because you're a Christian?

So you will dump your beliefs to satisfy the homosexuals?

dinachi:

So you will dump your beliefs to satisfy the homosexuals?

Pls I'm done with this conversation.

In case you didn't read very well when I was replying 5mins, I consider a Christian homosexual as commiting a sin since the bible is clearly against it.

not forcing my belief on others who don't share my faith is not the same as dumping my belief. One can't be explaining the same thing over and over again pls. Put your comprehension cap on Biko. I dislike repeating myself.

And pls don't quote me again to ask me something else that I have answered before. You can go back and read it up.

cococandy:


Pls I'm done with this conversation.

In case you didn't read very well when I was replying 5mins, I consider a Christian homosexual as commiting a sin since the bible is clearly against it.

not forcing my belief on others who don't share my faith is not the same as dumping my belief. One can't be explaining the same thing over and over again pls. Put your comprehension cap on Biko. I dislike repeating myself.

And pls don't quote me again to ask me something else that I have answered before. You can go back and read it up.

Why would you support a lifestyle that is against your Christian faith?
There is a clear difference between forcing your beliefs on people and standing up for your beliefs.
When it comes to homosexuals you do not stand up for your beliefs but you stand up for the beliefs of homosexuals, so who is fooling who?
Your response is really funny'I know homosexuality is a sin but I support it regardless because'?
You intentionally open eyed support a sin?

Never mind.

It's obviously too complex for you I guess.

dinachi:

Why would you support a lifestyle that is against your Christian faith?
There is a clear difference between forcing your beliefs on people and standing up for your beliefs.
When it comes to homosexuals you do not stand up for your beliefs but you stand up for the beliefs of homosexuals, so who is fooling who?
Your response is really funny'I know homosexuality is a sin but I support it regardless because'?
You intentionally open eyed support a sin?

cococandy:
Seen

And you will also hear !

So, this "right" that we have been denying gays that you conjured up out of nowhere, upon what is it predicated? Is it love? dignity? orientation? consent? harm? Please tell us upon what it rests.

And then please tell us if these predicates cannot rightly be applied to polygamous marriage - which thing you hate amongst a number of other domestic arrangements or relationships, without being hypocritical.

Notice i haven't even touched on the Christian perspective. Suffice to say I am in awe at how you are able to reconcile your faith with your stance here.

1 John 1:1 - seen, heard, handled.


TV

ihedinobi2:
Bros TV, seen my mail yet? Nothing especially urgent though.

-holá Ihe, apologies for the delay, owanbe cash me !

If the polygamous marriage was fair to all parties concerned in it, I wouldn't hate it.
So it's not about morality but about a sense of social justice. If something is unfair to someone I can't possibly justify it because religion permits it.
There are practices that one can say yes it's other people belief so it's fine. Eg two people of same sex getting married. While there are some that while they favor one party is unfair to another party so definitely supporting it because it's part of the belief for the people who practice is supporting a social injustice. Eg marriage inequality such as polygamy or child marriage. Where one party in the union is obviously favored at the detriment of the other.

I don't even mention Christianity or morality when I talk about why I dislike polygamy.
It's Plainly from a social pov.

It is also funny you find TRUE Christians who can reconcile polygamy and their faith huh? And become true Christians on different threads as the opportunity leads.

TV01:

And you will also hear !

So, this "right" that we have been denying gays that you conjured up out of nowhere, upon what is it predicated? Is it love? dignity? orientation? consent? harm? Please tell us upon what it rests.

And then please tell us if these predicates cannot rightly be applied to polygamous marriage - which thing you hate amongst a number of other domestic arrangements or relationships, without being hypocritical.

Notice i haven't even touched on the Christian perspective. Suffice to say I am in awe at how you are able to reconcile your faith with your stance here.

1 John 1:1 - seen, heard, handled.


TV


^{-holá Ihe, apologies for the delay, owanbe cash me !}

...ah! I thought you'd be out and I could sneak off to bed. Owanbe has knackered me today ! You didn't respond to my point about rights, but no problem.

cococandy:
If the polygamous marriage was fair to all parties concerned in it, I wouldn't hate it.

Why is up to us to determine what is fair? Fair may not even form part of the rational of those entering into it, or they may desire it whatever the fairness.

cococandy:
So it's not about morality but about a sense of social justice. If something is unfair to someone I can't possibly justify it because religion permits it.

So in lieu of "rights you have "justice". So again, what injustice is being meted out to homosexuals by them not being able to enter into an institution that is not based on orientation, but sexual differentiation - they are in fact rejecting it by their own choices.

cococandy:
There are practices that one can say yes it's other people belief so it's fine. Eg two people of same sex getting married. While there are some that while they favor one party is unfair to another party so definitely supporting it because it's part of the belief for the people who practice is supporting a social injustice. Eg marriage inequality such as polygamy or child marriage. Where one party in the union is obviously favored at the detriment of the other.

I think I've partially answer this above. But it's clear that this whole discussion has to be framed around notions that don't really bear scrutiny. What exactly does marriage have to be considered in terms of "equality/inequality" as opposed to what constitutes marriage?

Marriage not being permitted for a couple of the same sex is not "inequality" - it's a fail on the part of the couple to qualify. Made more apparent as to re-define iot to admit them changes what it is - "gay marriage" does not make marriage equal,it changes what marriage is.

cococandy:
I don't even mention Christianity or morality when I talk about why I dislike polygamy.
It's Plainly from a social pov.

I can make the Christian argument - and not just the case against sin - and the social one. Good Christian doctrine accords with both truth and morality.

Give sin an inch and it will take a mile. Sin cannot brook dissent or share space. The consciences of those that glory in it will not hear a word against it, or rest until all celebrate it, or opposition is silenced. Wait and see - that's not even prophecy.

cococandy:
It is also funny you find TRUE Christians who can reconcile polygamy and their faith huh? And become true Christians on different threads as the opportunity leads.

I'm not aware of such, and I personally don't make that case.


TV

cococandy:
Never mind.

It's obviously too complex for you I guess.

No complexity here. The thing is a clear as noonday. You have bowed down to the American Homosexual lobby and thrown out your Christian beliefs through the window!

I have never heard a more senseless argument. Your Christian faith forbids homosexuality yet you claim to be a Christian and still supports homosexuality because you need to please homosexuals and displease God?
My question has been clear as crystal. If you didn't know homosexuality is a sin, this might be different but you clearly know that it is a sin but yet you support it still as a Christian because you do not want to force your faith on others.
How else can you stand up for your faith if your principled position as an individual is at variance with the same faith you profess?
With all due respect, I think you are the only one confused here!

@bold, When you see people subjected to it holding placards to protest it, then You know it's unfair to them.
Or if I put myself in those shoes and wouldn't like it when such conditions are imposed on me, then I don't need a scientist to tell me that it would be unfair if allowed by law.
It's that simple.

No law can force me to marry a fellow woman so giving homosexuals a right to marry each other.
But a law that allows polygamy can can directly affect me and force me to tolerate that in my own life even when it is unfair and affects me negatively.

See where my distinguishing of fair and unfair lies?

@ the rest of your post seen

TV01:
...ah! I thought you'd be out and I could sneak off to bed. Owanbe has knackered me today ! You didn't respond to my point about rights, but no problem.


Why is up to us to determine what is fair? Fair may not even form part of the rational of those entering into it, or they may desire it whatever the fairness.


So in lieu of "rights you have "justice". So again, what injustice is being meted out to homosexuals by them not being able to enter into an institution that is not based on orientation, but sexual differentiation - they are in fact rejecting it by their own choices.


I think I've partially answer this above. But it's clear that this whole discussion has to be framed around notions that don't really bear scrutiny. What exactly does marriage have to be considered in terms of "equality/inequality" as opposed to what constitutes marriage?

Marriage not being permitted for a couple of the same sex is not "inequality" - it's a fail on the part of the couple to qualify. Made more apparent as to re-define iot to admit them changes what it is - "gay marriage" does not make marriage equal,it changes what marriage is.


I can make the Christian argument - and not just the case against sin - and the social one. Good Christian doctrine accords with both truth and morality.

Give sin an inch and it will take a mile. Sin cannot brook dissent or share space. The consciences of those that glory in it will not hear a word against it, or rest until all celebrate it, or opposition is silenced. Wait and see - that's not even prophecy.


I'm not aware of such, and I personally don't make that case.


Tv

Well it is still too complex for you obviously

dinachi:

No complexity here. The thing is a clear as noonday. You have bowed down to the American Homosexual lobby and thrown out your Christian beliefs through the window!

I have never heard a more senseless argument. Your Christian faith forbids homosexuality yet you claim to be a Christian and still supports homosexuality because you need to please homosexuals and displease God?
My question has been clear as crystal. If you didn't know homosexuality is a sin, this might be different but you clearly know that it is a sin but yet you support it still as a Christian because you do not want to force your faith on others.
How else can you stand up for your faith if your principled position as an individual is at variance with the same faith you profess?
With all due respect, I think you are the only one confused here!

cococandy:
Well it is still too complex for you obviously

No complexity anywhere. You simply bowed down to the US homosexual lobby.
Every other thing you are saying is just trying to explain away failure of courage. You are just a conformist. Even if America legalizes beastialty you will still conform. You scared shirtless of taking a courageous faith based stand because you do not want to offend you homosexual friends.

Morning Coco,

So, first you said it was a "denial of rights", and I asked which right eactly? From where? And are there other rights where that came from?
Then it was an "Inequality", I queried how it was "unequal" and what we were supposed to be making equal and for whom?
Then you said it was "injustice", to which I responded, which injustice exactly ?

No replies to any of the questions, a deft skirting of the obvious issues, and a limited focus on what are no more than platitudes. Now you introduce the notion of "unfair"


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aUfU1arc0Es

cococandy:
@bold, When you see people subjected to it holding placards to protest it, then You know it's unfair to them.

Coco c'mon. So anyone protesting - with placards - has a de facto case of discrimination against them? Or are obviously being treated unfairly? Like the women who protested plans to outlaw traveling to Europe for prostitution?

cococandy:
Or if I put myself in those shoes and wouldn't like it when such conditions are imposed on me, then I don't need a scientist to tell me that it would be unfair if allowed by law.

There are brother and sister couples who consider their inability to marry "unfair", likewise some "animal lovers". So anyone who feels "unfairly treated" or "hard done by" has an inherent case for a legal remedy?

Which conditions are imposed on gay people or anyone whose relationship does not qualify as marriage? Asking for marriage is asking for conditions to be imposed upon you

cococandy:
It's that simple.

No. And a simplistic and reductionist approach in order to ride roughshod over the obvious arguments does not make it so.

cococandy:
No law can force me to marry a fellow woman so giving homosexuals a right to marry each other.

cococandy:
But a law that allows polygamy can can directly affect me and force me to tolerate that in my own life even when it is unfair and affects me negatively.

So allowing people to choose polygamy and call it marriage can force you to be part of a polygamous relationship? Really? Because you are forced to stay married, or forced to take more husbands, or your husband forced to take more wives?

And denying polygamist the right to their choices, due to erroneous and unfair supposition that allowing them that right to their choices, may affect you, is not unfair? When you married in Nigeria, did you for one moment think polygamy being legal would affect your union?

cococandy:
See where my distinguishing of fair and unfair lies?

You haven't distinguished, just drawn an odd comparision.

All good. I thought this philosophy may bring some new and deep insight. Enough. And I won't even bother to discuss this from a scriptural perspective, not least because of what the notions you've introduced imply - I simply cannot see how they can be reconciled with the bible.


TV

Seen

TV01:
Morning Coco,

So, first you said it was a "denial of rights", and I asked which right eactly? From where? And are there other rights where that came from?
Then it was an "Inequality", I queried how it was "unequal" and what we were supposed to be making equal and for whom?
Then you said it was "injustice", to which I responded, which injustice exactly ?

No replies to any of the questions, a deft skirting of the obvious issues, and a limited focus on what are no more than platitudes. Now you introduce the notion of "unfair"


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aUfU1arc0Es


Coco c'mon. So anyone protesting - with placards - has a de facto case of discrimination against them? Or are obviously being treated unfairly? Like the women who protested plans to outlaw traveling to Europe for prostitution?


There are brother and sister couples who consider their inability to marry "unfair", likewise some "animal lovers". So anyone who feels "unfairly treated" or "hard done by" has an inherent case for a legal remedy?

Which conditions are imposed on gay people or anyone whose relationship does not qualify as marriage? Asking for marriage is asking for conditions to be imposed upon you


No. And a simplistic and reductionist approach in order to ride roughshod over the obvious arguments does not make it so.




So allowing people to choose polygamy and call it marriage can force you to be part of a polygamous relationship? Really? Because you are forced to stay married, or forced to take more husbands, or your husband forced to take more wives?

And denying polygamist the right to their choices, due to erroneous and unfair supposition that allowing them that right to their choices, may affect you, is not unfair? When you married in Nigeria, did you for one moment think polygamy being legal would affect your union?


You haven't distinguished, just drawn an odd comparision.

All good. I thought this philosophy may bring some new and deep insight. Enough. And I won't even bother to discuss this from a scriptural perspective, not least because of what the notions you've introduced imply - I simply cannot see how they can be reconciled with the bible.


TV

The Bible is so plain about homosexuality...it's a sin just like fornication, adultery, stealing..e.t.c. If as a TRUE christian you disapprove other forms of sin why shld homosexuality be of any difference...you're either for God or not...no sitting on the fence...

Ayofaks:
The Bible is so plain about homosexuality...it's a sin just like fornication, adultery, stealing..e.t.c. If as a TRUE christian you disapprove other forms of sin why shld homosexuality be of any difference...you're either for God or not...no sitting on the fence...

Beautiful analysis!

This man needs to be commended for standing up for what's right. No minding wich country he is.