dmandy:


ok.

that has always been the tactics.

Sorry, dmandy!

Do you speak in tongues? And are you baptised In the Holy Spirit?

Jeromejnr:


Sorry, dmandy!

Do you speak in tongues? And are you baptised In the Holy Spirit?

Now you act like a Christian.

Yes I speak in tongues.

Yes I am baptized in the holy ghost.

Jeromejnr:


It says everyone that hath a doctrine, psalm and tongue to share before the whole church. Which meant someone might have come up and spoke in tongues before the congregation without interpretation.

EVERYONE means entire church. How different is everyone in the church having a tongue and the whole church bubbling in tongues simultaneously?

It didn't say don't speak In tongues at all in church. Or as a prayer group.

Agreed but the reason it never said that is because church is where 2 or three are gathered. The point is simply no uninterpreted tongues PUBLICLY. Church in apostolic times were usually held in homes. See here
1 Corinthians 16:19 (KJV)
The churches of Asia salute you. Aquila and Priscilla salute you much in the Lord, with the church that is in their house.

Notice the last line. "Keep silence in church and speak to himself and God" Still in church. But not In front of the congregation to minister to them.

There is a difference.

Bro we are splitting hairs. Whether somebody is at the front or back, ain't they both IN CHURCH?

dmandy:


Now you act like a Christian.

Yes I speak in tongues.

Yes I am baptized in the holy ghost.

Okay.

Jeromejnr:


Okay.

vooks:

EVERYONE means entire church. How different is everyone in the church having a tongue and the whole church bubbling in tongues simultaneously?


Agreed but the reason it never said that is because church is where 2 or three are gathered. Church in apostolic times were usually held in homes. See here
1 Corinthians 16:19 (KJV)
The churches of Asia salute you. Aquila and Priscilla salute you much in the Lord, with the church that is in their house.


Bro we are splitting hairs. Whether somebody is at the front or back, ain't they both IN CHURCH?

Look, look.

Looking at the scripture in context, Paul said "if you bless or give thanks in tongues how will people know to say amen" its different from all praying in tongues together in intercession or for themselves.

When Christians were constantly praying for Peter in prison, how do you think they prayed together? Was it English? Were they saying, "Lord deliver Peter" over and over repeatedly?
Or was it tongues they all used?

This thing is not hard to understand.

vooks:

First, there is no scripture that says one needs evidence of baptism of Holy Spirit much less that the evidence being tongues. That is doctrines of men that make the word of God of non-effect.

What evidence do you have that you are born again? What about evidence that your name is written in the book of life? Or better, that your sins are forgiven?

mtchwww..the evidence of the baptism of the holy ghost is not in speaking in tongues abi??mtchhhhhww...you win bros..I don't argue these things oh..

dmandy:

vooks:

First, there is no scripture that says one needs evidence of baptism of Holy Spirit much less that the evidence being tongues. That is doctrines of men that make the word of God of non-effect.

What evidence do you have that you are born again? What about evidence that your name is written in the book of life? Or better, that your sins are forgiven?

Evidences abound in scriptures

"And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost for they were hearing them speaking with tongues and exalting God. Then Peter answered,"

Look at that word FOR there. What does it imply in the English language and in context of this verse.

Also:

"And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues,"

Also:

"And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance."

misreal:
mtchwww..the evidence of the baptism of the holy ghost is not in speaking in tongues abi??mtchhhhhww...you win bros..I don't argue these things oh..

Scriptures please.

vooks:
Scriptures please.

no..

Jeromejnr:


Evidences abound in scriptures

"And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost for they were hearing them speaking with tongues and exalting God. Then Peter answered,"

Look at that word FOR there. What does it imply in the English language and in context of this verse.

Also:

"And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues,"

Also:

"And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance."

you try oh.I can't waste my time arguing oh.

misreal:
you try oh.I can't waste my time arguing oh.

Out of the kindness of my heart, I provided him scriptures so he won't be ignorant.

Jeromejnr:


Look, look.

Looking at the scripture in context, Paul said "if you bless or give thanks in tongues how will people know to say amen" its different from all praying in tongues together in intercession or for themselves.

My brother
1 Corinthians 14:13- 17 (KJV) Wherefore let him that speaketh in an unknown tongue pray that he may interpret. 14 For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful. 15 What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also. 16 Else when thou shalt bless with the spirit, how shall he that occupieth the room of the unlearned say Amen at thy giving of thanks, seeing he understandeth not what thou sayest? 17 For thou verily givest thanks well, but the other is not edified..
1. Pray
2. Sing
3. Bless
All these 3 MUST be interpreted so others may be edified and say amen. Otherwise why would Paul use the examples specifically in the context of interpretation of tongues?

When Christians were constantly praying for Peter in prison, how do you think they prayed together? Was it English? Were they saying, "Lord deliver Peter" over and over repeatedly?
Or was it tongues they all used?

We are not told what language they used but whenever their prayers are recorded, it was in a language others understood. For instance
Acts 4:24 (KJV)
And when they heard that, they lifted up their voice to God with one accord, and said, Lord, thou art God, which hast made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and all that in them

Why should we speculate that they prayed in tongues? Please let's not 'help' Holy Spirit with inspiration, let's stick to what is revealed

This thing is not hard to understand.

True, no uninterpreted tongues in public worship

Jeromejnr:




Out of the kindness of my heart, I provided him scriptures so he won't be ignorant.

kudos to you my man

vooks:

My brother
1 Corinthians 14:13- 17 (KJV) Wherefore let him that speaketh in an unknown tongue pray that he may interpret. 14 For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful. 15 What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also. 16 Else when thou shalt bless with the spirit, how shall he that occupieth the room of the unlearned say Amen at thy giving of thanks, seeing he understandeth not what thou sayest? 17 For thou verily givest thanks well, but the other is not edified..
1. Pray
2. Sing
3. Bless
All these 3 MUST be interpreted so others may be edified and say amen. Otherwise why would Paul use the examples specifically in the context of interpretation of tongues?


When Christians were constantly praying for Peter in prison, how do you think they prayed together? Was it English? Were they saying, "Lord deliver Peter" over and over repeatedly?
Or was it tongues they all used?

This thing is not hard to understand.

I have many hings to say to you bro. But no time.

Jeromejnr:


I have many hings to say to you bro. But no time.

I have one scripture for you
2 Timothy 3:16-17 (KJV)
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

The scriptures are sufficient in and of themselves, may WE not be found resisting Holy Spirit by upholding lawlessness and traditions of men

misreal:
no..

If there are no scriptures to support your belief, what are they based on? Traditions of men?

vooks:

I have one scripture for you
2 Timothy 3:16-17 (KJV)
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

The scriptures are sufficient in and of themselves, may WE not be found resisting Holy Spirit by upholding lawlessness and traditions of men

Yes o.

vooks:

If there are no scriptures to support your belief, what are they based on? Traditions of men?

it seems you are not here to know the truth but to argue.jrjerome,has answered your question but you are still adamant.if you needed the truth,you would taken his advice..my brother you need to know God yourself and stop saying the things your pastor told you..if my pastor says things that are not in line with the spirit of God,I always know..press into God and ask him to reveal himself to you instead of swallowing everything your priest tells you..I have talked enough sir,I rest my case.

Jeromejnr:


Evidences abound in scriptures

"And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost for they were hearing them speaking with tongues and exalting God. Then Peter answered,"

Look at that word FOR there. What does it imply in the English language and in context of this verse.

This verse tells us the Jews perceived the Gentiles had received the baptism because they heard them speak in tongues. But please note a few things

Acts 10:46 (KJV)
For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God.
1. The Jews heard them MAGNIFY GOD. So they heard what they Gentiles were saying.
2. While this means they received the baptism and spoke in tongues, and baptism was evidenced by tongues,nowhere is it said that baptism MUST be evidenced by tongues.

There are other aspects of salvation more important than baptism such as forgiveness of sins, being born again which have no evidence. Why? Because they are received by faith.

Also:

"And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues,"

Again, baptism followed by tongues but who said tongues MUST evidence baptism?

Also:

"And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance."

Where is it written that baptism MUST be evidenced by tongues?

The fact that in Corinthians we are taught not all speak in tongues means so many who received the baptism NEVER spoke in tongues

vooks:

This verse tells us the Jews perceived the Gentiles had received the baptism because they heard them speak in tongues. But please note a few things

Acts 10:46 (KJV)
For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God.
1. The Jews heard them MAGNIFY GOD. So they heard what they Gentiles were saying.
2. While this means they received the baptism and spoke in tongues, and baptism was evidenced by tongues,nowhere is it said that baptism MUST be evidenced by tongues.

There are other aspects of salvation more important than baptism such as forgiveness of sins, being born again which have no evidence. Why? Because they are received by faith.


Again, baptism followed by tongues but who said tongues MUST evidence baptism?


Where is it written that baptism MUST be evidenced by tongues?

The fact that in Corinthians we are taught not all speak in tongues means so many who received the baptism NEVER spoke in tongues

The fact that majority of the scriptures that deal with baptism in the Holy Ghost ended up with speaking in tongues.

And the fact that due to experience everyone I have seen baptised spoke in tongues.

And being born again has evidence. The inner witness of the Spirit that bears witness that we are sons of God.

misreal:
it seems you are not here to know the truth but to argue.jrjerome,has answered your question but you are still adamant.

Am not here to argue, I shared a book. Please read it and thank God for impressing tha author to share it for free. Iron sharpens iron. Am glad he has the grace to share his faith with me just as I have with him. You should esteem God's word above all traditions and whatever they teach you at your church, you should like Bereans be noble enough to search it for yourself.

if you needed the truth,you would taken his advice..

Am a lover of God and the truth. if you love the truth, endavor to back everything you believe in by the Word and discard what does not line up with scriptures. That's my prayer

my brother you need to know God yourself and stop saying the things your pastor told you..

Who told you my pastor told me to say anything? Please stop false allegations. That's so unChristian

if my pastor says things that are not in line with the spirit of God,I always know

How do you 'know'? Testing everything against scriptures and not 'gut feelings'

..press into God and ask him to reveal himself to you instead of swallowing everything your priest tells you..

You too bro, cherish and treasure scriptures above all traditions of men

I have talked enough sir,I rest my case.

God bless you man of God


Sola Scriptura

Jeromejnr:


The fact that majority of the scriptures that deal with baptism in the Holy Ghost ended up with speaking in tongues.

And the fact that due to experience everyone I have seen baptised spoke in tongues.

The fact that scriptures tells you not all speak in tongues nor interpret should qualify your assumptions. You have 4 or so instances of baptism of the Holy Spirit with t least three clearly telling you they spoke in tongues. Should you assume that ALL MUST SPEAK IN TONGUES or should you not rather follow the clear voice of the Holy Spirit here;
1 Corinthians 12:30 (AMP)
30 Do all possess extraordinary powers of healing? Do all speak with tongues? Do all interpret?

And being born again has evidence. The inner witness of the Spirit that bears witness that we are sons of God.

The point is that 'inner witness' need not be visible to me to make it true. Likewise, your baptism of the Holy Spirit need not be witnessed by me.

vooks:

The fact that scriptures tells you not all speak in tongues nor interpret should qualify your assumptions. You have 4 or so instances of baptism of the Holy Spirit with t least three clearly telling you they spoke in tongues. Should you assume that ALL MUST SPEAK IN TONGUES or should you not rather follow the clear voice of the Holy Spirit here;
1 Corinthians 12:30 (AMP)
30 Do all possess extraordinary powers of healing? Do all speak with tongues? Do all interpret?


The point is that 'inner witness' need not be visible to me to make it true. Likewise, your baptism of the Holy Spirit need not be witnessed by me.

Not all have the ministry gift, that was why interpretation was mentioned. But all are sposed to pray in the language.

"Likewise the Spirit helps us in our weakness. For we do not know what to pray for as we ought, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us with groanings too deep for words."

The witness is not for you but for the person.

Jeromejnr:


Not all have the ministry gift, that was why interpretation was mentioned. But all are sposed to pray in the language.

Bro, what went down at Pentecost, 'ministry gift' or 'praying in the language'?

"Likewise the Spirit helps us in our weakness. For we do not know what to pray for as we ought, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us with groanings too deep for words."

Very comforting verse. I don't know how one hops from this to praying in tongues

The witness is not for you but for the person.

Sorry I don't understand

vooks:

Bro, what went down at Pentecost, 'ministry gift' or 'praying in the language'?


Very comforting verse. I don't know how one hops from this to praying in tongues


Sorry I don't understand

First question: prayer language.

Second statement: please explain to us how the Spirit groans for us in helping our imfrmities since you are more enlightened.

Third statement: The manifestation is for the person receiving the gift not for you a passerby.

Jeromejnr:


First question: prayer language.

Distinguish the two from scriptures. Thank you

Second statement: please explain to us how the Spirit groans for us in helping our imfrmities since you are more enlightened.

Am not more enlightened sir, am a lover of God and the truth.
The bible says groans that can't be uttered. How comes prayer in tongues are audible?
And secondly, how comes Paul says we should interpret the prayers in tongues ('groans') as well?
1 Corinthians 14:13-15 (KJV)
Wherefore let him that speaketh in an unknown tongue pray that he may interpret. 14 For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful. 15 What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also:

Recall too you claim that Pentecost was 'prayer language'. This was a literal language understood by the Diasporan Jews. Does it qualify as unutterable groans?

Third statement: The manifestation is for the person receiving the gift not for you a passerby.

It is very clear tongues are for unbelievers. That's Holy Spirit speaking sir. Here,
1 Corinthians 14:22 (KJV)
Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe

vooks:

Distinguish the two from scriptures. Thank you


Am not more enlightened sir, am a lover of God and the truth.
The bible says groans that can't be uttered. How comes prayer in tongues are audible?
And secondly, how comes Paul says we should interpret the prayers in tongues ('groans') as well?
1 Corinthians 14:13-15 (KJV)
Wherefore let him that speaketh in an unknown tongue pray that he may interpret. 14 For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful. 15 What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also:


It is very clear tongues are for unbelievers. That's Holy Spirit speaking sir. Here,
1 Corinthians 14:22 (KJV)
Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe

Are you sure you speak In the genuine tongues at all?

If you do, how come you don't know what groaning is? Have you heard of groaning in the Spirit Im intercession before?

Why don't you explain that scripture for us let's understand it better.

Jeromejnr:


Are you sure you speak In the genuine tongues at all?

It is pointless getting carnal over spiritual matters. Why the personal jabs?

If you do, how come you don't know what groaning is? Have you heard of groaning in the Spirit Im intercession before?

Romans says they are UNUTTERABLE. an uttered groan is by definition the opposite of UNUTTERABLE

Why don't you explain that scripture for us let's understand it better.

I don't claim to understand all scriptures but I lack anything linking Romans to tongues and I find abundant evidence that it can't be tongues for the reasons I have shared above namely; the groans are unutterable while tongues are utterable.

Study Romans 8:26 under ANY translation and tell me if you won't arrive at UNUTTERABLE

How comes the 'prayer language' of Pentecost was utterable and readily understood by the Diasporan Jews? Either it was not 'prayer language' but 'ministry gift' or your definitions and distinctions are baseless

vooks:

It is pointless getting carnal over spiritual matters. Why the personal jabs?


Romans says they are UNUTTERABLE. an uttered groan is by definition the opposite of UNUTTERABLE


I don't claim to understand all scriptures but I lack anything linking Romans to tongues and I find abundant evidence that it can't be tongues for the reasons I have shared above

So you don't understand that scripture but yet assume what it doesn't mean.

You see why I said you can't understand something if you don't experience it.

Vooks leave me alone o. If you like don't speak in tongues its your own salvation. Everybody has his own.

Jeromejnr:


So you don't understand that scripture but yet assume what it doesn't mean.

Am saying I may not understand fully Romans 8:26 but that don't mean I will latch onto any interpretation of the same. I can outrightly rule out some

You see why I said you can't understand something if you don't experience it.

Sounds logical except Christianity is a walk and life of faith not sight. Have you been to heaven? Have you met Jesus yet? Must we meet Jesus to 'understand' Christianity?

Vooks leave me alone o. If you like don't speak in tongues its your own salvation. Everybody has his own.

Am sorry I offended you sir. Thank you for your time , much appreciated that you took your time and shared your faith sir. May the Lord increase you and in you.