@pilgrim.1
why don't you show us the coherence, what i quoted was from scriptures and NOT my opinion. If you have a seemingly contradictory scripture then it is left to you to thrash it out and NOT me.

KunleOshob:

@pilgrim.1
why don't you show us the coherence, what i quoted was from scriptures and NOT my opinion. If you have a seemingly contradictory scripture then it is left to you to thrash it out and NOT me.

Lol. . yeye dey worry you! Was what I also quoted not from Scripture? If you no fit balance your flat assertion, tell the forum, then beg me! Beg me now. Yeye!

pilgrim.1:

No, I don't see a contradition between those verses, and it would be obvious as soon as you look carefully before making flat statements. May I look forward to your kind attempts to draw a coherence between them, or you'd just like to leave it at the fact you didn't answer the question? I'm sure you could do better than the terse "figure it out yourself", yes?

Cheers.

I'm curious to know how you reconcile these apparently contradictory verses.

Me personally, the only way of reconciling them from my perception is that the Levites did have their own cities but where they migrated and lived amongst the other israelite tribes they were not allowed to own property in those towns. The citizens of those towns had to provide for them. This was probably done to mark out the levites as a people separated unto God. They also had to undergo purification rites that the other Israelites didn't go through.

However having said that, to get back to the topic of this thread, it doesn't change the fact that tithes are foodstuff and supposed to be eaten in God's presence. That is what Tithes really mean. The meal is used to feed also those without possessions in the city. This practice does not occur in any contemporary christian church that I'm aware of. Tithes are here used to fill up the coffers of the already rich.

@Pastor AIO,

Pastor AIO:

I'm curious to know how you reconcile these apparently contradictory verses.

Me personally, the only way of reconciling them from my perception is that the Levites did have their own cities but where they migrated and lived amongst the other israelite tribes they were not allowed to own property in those towns. The citizens of those towns had to provide for them. This was probably done to mark out the levites as a people separated unto God. They also had to undergo purification rites that the other Israelites didn't go through.

This is why I appreciate reasoning like yours: no evasions or prevarications, just straight to the point - many thanks. In due course, I'll proffer a few hints to add to that (just waiting to see if Kunle would calm down and see it himself).

Pastor AIO:

However having said that, to get back to the topic of this thread, it doesn't change the fact that tithes are foodstuff and supposed to be eaten in God's presence. That is what Tithes really mean.

That is one meaning of tithes, not the only meaning. Remember also that the Levites could eat their tithes in any other place: please see Numbers 18:31 -

'And ye shall eat it in every place, ye and your households:
for it is your reward for your service in the tabernacle of
the congregation.'

Pastor AIO:

The meal is used to feed also those without possessions in the city. This practice does not occur in any contemporary christian church that I'm aware of. Tithes are here used to fill up the coffers of the already rich.

True, that is the abuse that everyone's worried about. However, the abuse does not make the thing in itself to be untenable.

@ pilgrim


Thanks for the advice and i will surely take to it, Thank God for your life and how he changed you, you have really made my day. God bless you, keep up the good work.

eh eh,see as my friend kunle dey take the heat for here.pilgrim.1,carry go, I dey wit U. lol. Don't mind those anti-tithers,they excel in the memory lapse tactic. They can't query your points,then they bring up another 'point' and then you explain that,and they come up with another,until they go round the circle and bring up some old weather beaten 'point' again. Kunle has been informed before that Barnabas was a levite who had land and sold it Acts4v36,37,so also Jeremiah the prophet.I'm praying wit you that God will open his and their eyes in Jesus' name.

You guys that seem to want to pay "tithe" can go ahead and pay all you want. There a huge gap between paying a required % and giving from the heart, we all know there are costs associated with maintaining a Church or place of worship but it should still come from the heart. Jesus chastised the Pharisees for paying tithe on even the smallest of earnings but forgets "the weightier matters, like compassion, faithfulness, " yet some folks want to use that to justify today's greed, feel free. I would much rather give from my heart than follow these worn-out path that insults our collective intelligence.

your opinion bose, if you love robbing God of his tithe then go ahead for God cannot be mocked; for whatsoever a man soweth, that he shall reap. also remember Food for the belly, belly for food, they shall all perish one day. have a good day.

pilgrim.1:


This is why I appreciate reasoning like yours: no evasions or prevarications, just straight to the point - many thanks. In due course, I'll proffer a few hints to add to that (just waiting to see if Kunle would calm down and see it himself).

I don't believe you are waiting for me to calm down, you are probably rampaging through the scriptures as i write looking for some remotely connected scripture which you can expand on to prove whatever hypothesis you are thinking of dreaming up.

Image123:

eh eh,see as my friend kunle dey take the heat for here.pilgrim.1,carry go, I dey wit U. lol. Don't mind those anti-tithers,they excel in the memory lapse tactic. They can't query your points,then they bring up another 'point' and then you explain that,and they come up with another,until they go round the circle and bring up some old weather beaten 'point' again. Kunle has been informed before that Barnabas was a levite who had land and sold it Acts4v36,37,so also Jeremiah the prophet.I'm praying wit you that God will open his and their eyes in Jesus' name.

Ifyou read pilgrim's bone of contention here you would find that as usual she is arguing based on shaft and rhetorics whilst ignoring the real issues that tithes means food to be eaten by the tither in God's presence and it was NEVER directed at christians.

todak:

your opinion bose, if you love robbing God of his tithe then go ahead for God cannot be mocked; for whatsoever a man soweth, that he shall reap. also remember Food for the belly, belly for food, they shall all perish one day. have a good day.

The only people robbing God and his children as far as tithes is concerned are the pastors preaching it in God's name cos God did not at any time in the bible instituite tithing for christians, that aside the type of tithing being preached today is a gross violation and corruption of biblical tithing which had nothing to do with money or income, that is apart from the fact that it was done once a year and not weekly/monthly that those robbing God preach.

This is exactly what I wrote about in my previous post KunleOshob.you brought up a issue that levites are not to own property,and then we prove that they can and have, and instead of you to agree to that,you're simply bringing up another weather beaten point of tithes must be food,and are to be eaten in God's presence.when we start to talk about people like Abraham and Jacob now,you'll likely run to Hebrews or something.quit this circuit friend.

This is exactly what I wrote about in my previous post KunleOshob.you brought up a issue that levites are not to own property,and then we prove that they can and have, and instead of you to agree to that,you're simply bringing up another weather beaten point of tithes must be food,and are to be eaten in God's presence.when we start to talk about people like Abraham and Jacob now,you'll likely run to Hebrews or something.quit this circuit friend.

Some of us like kunle get's it but I don't know what to say about those "structured tithers"
" from the Heavens to the Earth , to show the way
 from the Earth to the Cross, my debt to pay
 from the Cross the the grave
 from the grave to the Sky
 Lord I lift your name up high, "

Our DEBTS is paid in full by Jesus Christ and anyone making you feel guilty for not "tithing" is wrong to say the least. Giving from the heart, compassion for others, faith, being full of HIS grace, etc. are some of the only requirements God asks of his children since Christ made the ultimate sacrifice for mankind. Jesus Christ told us "it is easier for a Camel to get through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to make the kingdom of God, go figure why they want to be prosperous, never die, seed sowing (for their pockets) and what have you, it has no basis in Christianity or the Holy Bible.
I pray that God open the eyes of everyone's heart so they can really see him, these are the end times and Jesus warned us about Wolves coming in as sheep to deceive his children, they are doing that now with all these interpretations that has no basis in the Bible or Christianity.
No wonder M. Gandhi was quoted as saying " I like Jesus Christ, I don't like Christians because you Christians are so much unlike your Christ"
Simple take : To serve him truly is to follow his ways and teachings and not some OLD LAW that has been fulfilled.

Image123:

This is exactly what I wrote about in my previous post KunleOshob.you brought up a issue that levites are not to own property,and then we prove that they can and have, and instead of you to agree to that,you're simply bringing up another weather beaten point of tithes must be food,and are to be eaten in God's presence.when we start to talk about people like Abraham and Jacob now,you'll likely run to Hebrews or something.quit this circuit friend.

Even if some levites owned property the fact still remains that it was stated clearly in the bible that the only reason they were entitled to tithes was becos they were not allowed to own property and that reason must be up held by any one who wants to preach tithes today.

Abraham's tithes was a one off tithe from war booty, it was never instituitionalized for his desecdants to practise talkless of christians, that aside it was a free will offering and it was not from his income or property. That aside he still gave out the remaining 90% of the war booty so stop coming up with irrelevant scriptures to assert your delusions. There is no record Jacob ever tithe, he only made a conditional promise to tithe if God blessed him, that again is not relevant to the type of tithes being bandied today

The bible makes it crystal clear that tithes was food to be eaten in his presence by the tither so i am quite certain that you know you and other pastors preaching monetary tithes from income are twisting God's word and there are dire consequences for this evil.

Of course i don't need to remind you of the clear and precise passage in Hebrews that unequivocally abolishes tithing and describes it as weak and useless. If you don't like it maybe you should tear the book of hebrew out of your bible

@abose
God bless you for that submission.

Carry on Kunle, it is nice to see someone who knows the Bible on this side of the Isle. God owns everything we have, why would he require a percentage of what is already his? These tithe apologists need to sit down and study the Bible and not just what someone tells them from the pulpit, no wonder some want to see your w2s now before they accept your membership though I would much rather worship alone than be in those places. Nothing against "altar calls" for specific needs but it much be stopped once the goal has been reached, Our High Priest is one and only-Jesus Christ.

The issue of whether some Levites owned property is one of those irrelevances that are raised to cloud issues ---- instead of dealing with the real issues. It is not even worth dwelling on.

Similarly, people raise Matthew 23:23 to say that Christ taught tithing (particularly for Christians) when the passage does no such thing. It is conveniently forgotten that even in the Matthew 23:23 the "tithe" spoken of was very tiny (almost insignificant) agricultural products like mint, rue and other garden herbs --- just like saying you give/pay tithes with your ewedu, mushrooms, spinach etc. Where did Christ say anyone should tithe money?  Moreover, the context of that passage reveals clearly that Christ was telling even non-Christians that tithing was not that significant when compared with weightier issues like justice etc.

Focusing on whether Levites owned property, or whether some modern Jews "tithe" to charity is simply digressionary and diversionary - not addressing the key issues. Similarly, pointing to passages where Paul enjoined raising money to support specific Christians or addressing New Testament giving, which had nothing to do with "tithes" or "tithing" is simply disingenuous. Like Jesus Christ before him, Paul never taught anyone to tithe and neither did any of the apostles! You will not find anyone in the New Testament teaching, instructing or telling anyone (especially Christians) to "tithe" or for that matter to "tithe" money --- and the Hebrews passage that will probably be brought up did not instruct anyone to tithe or to tithe money.

Of course if a Christian voluntarily, especially with knowledge of the biblical truth that it is not a requirement, chooses to tithe we do not castigate them for that.

The critical points are that: "tithing" is not a Christian doctrine; it should not be taught as a Christian doctrine; more importantly, it should not be used as a means to fleece the flock and defraud people; it should not be used as a means to enslave people by fear into an "if I don't tithe, I will not be blessed" mentality; it should not be used to deceive people by saying "they are robbing God"!

@pilgrim.1,

I know you'll definitely want to reply Kunle and probably abose   , but pls, just give it a rest.

I know how it feels if a comment from someone puts u in a kind of badlight;u'll definitely want to retort/respond.

Let's just leave it at the fact that the likes of Kunle, Sir John, abose, myself and all others who share our view would continue to give out of our freewill and out of the compassion of our hearts but would not label or structure our giving to resemble tithes as described in the old testament and also not have any worries that we are robbing God(as todak put it)

and,

the fact that you would like to continue paying tithes as it pleases you based on ur convictions about it as long as you are not doing it based on any form of pressure,coersion;deception, or fulfilment of a commandment.

Let's respect our views for now and lay this matter at rest.

@Kunle,

Let's give it a rest. I think the only thing we should speak against is the lie that those of us that do not tithe "are robbing God" since some people view and pay their tithes based on instructions of the Law.





[size=4pt]* I do most certainly hope this helps a bit in this issue.* [/size]  

ttalks:

@Kunle,

Let's give it a rest. I think the only thing we should speak against is the lie that those of us that do not tithe "are robbing God" since some people view and pay their tithes based on instructions of the Law.

I am not sure i am ready to rest on this issue, you don't seem to get my point this is not just about tithes or not tithing, it is about the evil of twisting God's word to de-fraud people, this i think is a very grievious sin and it MUST be stopped. I intend to use all avenues open to me to spread the truth and let christians know they are being deceived into tithing. My conscience would not allow me rest on this issue whilst poor folks are being fleeced, i see it as my christian mandate to reveal the truth to other believers, at least once this crooked preachers start being challenged on the issue of tithes based on scriptures which i share with them and the preachers are embarrassed, i am sure they would think twice about it before uttering the rubbish again and less people would fall victim to the scam. Already through my ministry several people have stopped paying tithes and they are spreading the truth to other believers i have also published an article in newspapers and magazines to let people know this truth and the response as been quite overwhelming. As christians we shouldn't sit down and let our brethen be fleeced we should let them know the truth and the truth shall set them free.

@ttalks,

ttalks:

@pilgrim.1,

I know you'll definitely want to reply Kunle and probably abose , but pls, just give it a rest.

I know how it feels if a comment from someone puts u in a kind of badlight;u'll definitely want to retort/respond.

Lol, I don't feel bad, actually - I feel very sorry for him and people who reason in a circular manner as he does. I'd like to give it a rest and think that would be the appropriate thing to do, as long as other observers have seen that no matter how one points to the Scriptures, some just don't get (probably due to memory lapse, as Image123 opined).

ttalks:

Let's just leave it at the fact that the likes of Kunle, Sir John, abose, myself and all others who share our view would continue to give out of our freewill and out of the compassion of our hearts but would not label or structure our giving to resemble tithes as described in the old testament and also not have any worries that we are robbing God(as todak put it)

That's okay - but perhaps you're forgetting that those who were asked to give in the OT were asked to do so willingly, from their hearts (including tithes). You should appreciate the fact that some who tithe today do so out of the same 'freewill' and cheerfulness of heart.

ttalks:

and,

the fact that you would like to continue paying tithes as it pleases you based on ur convictions about it as long as you are not doing it based on any form of pressure,coersion;deception, or fulfilment of a commandment.

Let's respect our views for now and lay this matter at rest.

Aye. Cheers.

abose:

Carry on Kunle, it is nice to see someone who knows the Bible on this side of the Isle. God owns everything we have, why would he require a percentage of what is already his? These tithe apologists need to sit down and study the Bible and not just what someone tells them from the pulpit, no wonder some want to see your w2s now before they accept your membership though I would much rather worship alone than be in those places. Nothing against "altar calls" for specific needs but it much be stopped once the goal has been reached, Our High Priest is one and only-Jesus Christ.

I wonder that when people talk like this, the result is always the same: individualism. But it's your call, though - so enjoy it. On the other hand, if God owns it all, why are you not giving your all to Him? Why complain as if you do more than you say? Leave people who tithe or give the freedom to do so, not because they borrow from your pocket in doing so, but because they do not see it as "required". And, if you cannot see that anything you set apart from your income is also a percentage (1 Corinthians 16:2), then better withdraw your hand and give absolutely nothing. It saves you all the unnecessary drama you've been displaying.

I am not a pilgrim and can't argue with you on how to be one, from your point one can say Abraham didn't teach his son Jacob enough or Jacob wouldn't have been promising Yahweh 10% if he blessed his journey. You are free to part with your money anyway you see fit (as we say back home, you don't question someone who has oil about what to fry). I have decided not to pay tithes going forward and I can come up with ways to use such money to glorify God just not in some pastor's pockets. Those same pastors require folks (even the poor ones) to pay for activities that should be taken care of with church funds, "ye shall know the truth and the truth shall set you free, " Jesus has paid for my sins and his grace is upon me so I don't need laws when I have grace. "Blessed are the pure in heart, for they shall see God"
Indoctrination is bad for folk's health, evidence abound yet they pursue the same old,
I would love to see a "store house" in today's churches, Bentley garage is probably the closest we will get to seeing that, lol

abose:

I am not a pilgrim and can't argue with you on how to be one, from your point one can say Abraham didn't teach his son Jacob enough or Jacob wouldn't have been promising Yahweh 10% if he blessed his journey. You are free to part with your money anyway you see fit (as we say back home, you don't question someone who has oil about what to fry). I have decided not to pay tithes going forward and I can come up with ways to use such money to glorify God just not in some pastor's pockets. Those same pastors require folks (even the poor ones) to pay for activities that should be taken care of with church funds, "ye shall know the truth and the truth shall set you free, " Jesus has paid for my sins and his grace is upon me so I don't need laws when I have grace. "Blessed are the pure in heart, for they shall see God"
Indoctrination is bad for folk's health, evidence abound yet they pursue the same old,
I would love to see a "store house" in today's churches, Bentley garage is probably the closest we will get to seeing that, lol

Was Jacob "forced" to tithe? By what "Law"? It's true we choose to tithe, so what's biting you about that? Can't do more than whine and complain? It's a simple thing, really: you don't have to give anything - seeing others tithe or give freely and by choice while you complain all day makes one wonder why you have such a restless spirit after all that Jesus did for you. Whinging as you do is the weak man's first-aid, and I'd keep my fingers crossed to read more intelligent entries from you. Shalom.

@KunleOshob,

I should hardly have replied you, but just to clear up some issues - because no matter how many times you return your circular drama, it's quite obvious now that others have observed the same thing about your arguments.

KunleOshob:

I don't believe you are waiting for me to calm down, you are probably rampaging through the scriptures as i write looking for some remotely connected scripture which you can expand on to prove whatever hypothesis you are thinking of dreaming up.

To assure you, that was just your noise again, as I wasn't doing any such. If you had applied a bit of common sense and patience you would've seen clearly that Pastor AIO had given the best possible simple answers earlier. And because I knew those were very intelligent answers in his reply, my comments were easy enough to help you see it: "In due course, I'll proffer a few hints to add to that" - meaning that I'm very clear to see his comments as "answers" to which I had agreed were very-well reasoned; and also that I knew of several other answers that explain both sets of references for a coherence that not many people see. I'll save you those others (available to anyone anyday if they need it); and I'll just point you to Pastor AIO's answers by showing you from Scripture why I agreed earlier with him:

                 __________________________________________________


[list]

Pastor AIO:

I'm curious to know how you reconcile these apparently contradictory verses.

'Apparently contradictory', but there's a coherence between them. As earlier, I believe you've provided a few sound answers - and I'll only provide the references to show why I agreed with you earlier:

[list]

Pastor AIO:

Me personally, the only way of reconciling them from my perception is that the Levites did have their own cities

[/list]

[list]1. Yes, the Levites had their own cities -
[li]Lev. 25:32-33[/li][/list]

[list]

Pastor AIO:

but where they migrated and lived amongst the other israelite tribes they were not allowed to own property in those towns.

[/list]

[list]2. Yes, the Levites who served migrated and lived among the other tribes -
[li]Deut. 18:6[/li][/list]

[list]3. - - BUT, they also owned property in those towns --
[li]Lev. 25:33 >>
'. . for the houses of the cities of the Levites are
their possession among the children of Israel'[/li][/list]

[list]

Pastor AIO:

The citizens of those towns had to provide for them.

[/list]

[list]4. Yes, that is exactly what happened -
[li]Numbers 35:2-3 >>
Command the children of Israel, that they give unto
the Levites of the inheritance of their possession
cities to dwell in; and ye shall give also unto the Levites
suburbs for the cities round about them. And the cities
shall they have to dwell in; and the suburbs of them shall
be for their cattle, and for their goods, and for all their beasts.[/li]
.
.
[li]Joshua 21:2-3 >>
And they spake unto them at Shiloh in the land of Canaan,
saying, The LORD commanded by the hand of Moses to
give us cities to dwell in, with the suburbs thereof for our cattle.
And the children of Israel gave unto the Levites out of their
inheritance, at the commandment of the LORD, these cities
and their suburbs.
[/li]
.
.
[li]Joshua 14:3-4 (ESV) >>
For Moses had given an inheritance to the two and one-half tribes
beyond the Jordan, but to the Levites he gave no inheritance among them.
For the people of Joseph were two tribes, Manasseh and Ephraim.
And no portion was given to the Levites in the land,
but only cities to dwell in, with their pasturelands for their livestock
and their substance.[/li][/list]

[list]

Pastor AIO:
This was probably done to mark out the levites as a people separated unto God. They also had to undergo purification rites that the other Israelites didn't go through.

[/list]

[list]5. Good summary - thank you, for that is precisely what it was; seeing that the Levites were not numbered among the other tribes of Israel, but were nonetheless later numbered:

(a) not numbered among Israel for those conscripted to war -
[Num. 1:45-46 and Num. 26:62]
.
(b) but were later numbered specially for spiritual service -
[Num. 1:47-50][/list][/list]

                 __________________________________________________


In all this, Kunle, I very well had my answers - but was patient to allow you time to apply a bit of reason, peradventure you might see it. Alas! even though Pastor AIO had summarized it all, you failed to see it. And because I agreed mostly with his summary, my comments were: "I appreciate reasoning like yours: no evasions or prevarications." What I did here was simply provide the references to clear all doubts about the matter. So, where was the coherence?  Look again: for Joshua 14:4 held the answer for you:

        '. . therefore they gave no part unto the Levites in the land,
        save cities to dwell in, with their suburbs for their cattle and
        for their substance.'

This solves your problem - not a difficult task if you had been reading your Bible carefully.

Let's review: now you can see that it is false to assert that the Levites were "not being allowed to own property" - for they actually did own property (Lev. 25:33 - "the houses of the cities of the Levites are their possession".

KunleOshob:

Ifyou read pilgrim's bone of contention here you would find that as usual she is arguing based on shaft and rhetorics whilst ignoring the real issues that tithes means food to be eaten by the tither in God's presence and it was NEVER directed at christians.

Lol, forcing yourself to make such allegations only tend to weaken your position further and does critical damage to your double-speak. Since I entered this thread, my discussions have been based on the untenable assertions anti-tithers often make and cannot defend intelligently from Scripture. Roll back: was it not you who brought up the issue about Levites not being allowed to own property just because they were called to serve in the worship center? And what have we seen than the fallacy of that assertion? A second - you borrowed the false statement from others about Jews today not tithing; and again, that was bleached for its emptiness. Kunle, if you really wanted to pay attention to "the real issues", you would not be sounding so desperate as you do. But it's your call, so please do enjoy it.

KunleOshob:

The only people robbing God and his children as far as tithes is concerned are the pastors preaching it in God's name cos God did not at any time in the bible instituite tithing for christians, that aside the type of tithing being preached today is a gross violation and corruption of biblical tithing which had nothing to do with money or income, that is apart from the fact that it was done once a year and not weekly/monthly that those robbing God preach.

We've heard that whining in bold repeatedly - you can solve your problem by checking up on Jews who understand the nature of the Law and have not been as rigid as you often come across.

Cheers.

todak:

@ pilgrim

Thanks for the advice and i will surely take to it, Thank God for your life and how he changed you, you have really made my day. God bless you, keep up the good work.

@todak,
Good to know - and God bless you plenty. As you live for Him, He will constantly show His faithfulness in all things in your walk. Enjoy.

pilgrim!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
my sister!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
missed you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
love you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
bless you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

_babyosisi

Image123:

This is exactly what I wrote about in my previous post KunleOshob.you brought up a issue that levites are not to own property,and then we prove that they can and have, and instead of you to agree to that,you're simply bringing up another weather beaten point of tithes must be food,and are to be eaten in God's presence.when we start to talk about people like Abraham and Jacob now,you'll likely run to Hebrews or something.quit this circuit friend.

Image123:

eh eh,see as my friend kunle dey take the heat for here.pilgrim.1,carry go, I dey wit U. lol. Don't mind those anti-tithers, they excel in the memory lapse tactic. They can't query your points, then they bring up another 'point' and then you explain that, and they come up with another,until they go round the circle and bring up some old weather beaten 'point' again. Kunle has been informed before that Barnabas was a levite who had land and sold it Acts4v36,37,so also Jeremiah the prophet.I'm praying wit you that God will open his and their eyes in Jesus' name.

Dear Image123,

What can I say? In a nutsehell, you've very well captured my observations about the memory lapse and circular reasoning thingy when discussing with our friends . Indeed, not many of them would answer simple questions when queried on the assertions they make - most of which can't stand on a leg. To be honest though, it happened to me in my anti-tithing days until I realized that those often-repeated complaints against tithing are indefensible when closely examined. However, not every 'non-tither' (a different thing from "anti-tither") argues against tithes, and we can be thankful for that. God bless and enrich you more.

$osisi:

pilgrim!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
my sister!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
missed you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
love you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
bless you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

_babyosisi

[size=15pt]WOW!![/size] Thank God - my prayers are answered! I've been wondering how to contact you after so long!! My fault, though - a lot came my way and I had to attend them. Nne, make we yan by email, abi? G-mail, I go send you some. I hope you dey kampe? God bless you. Deepest love to you and all yours!!

@pilgrim.1
amen to that prayer.thank you and may God's light continue to shine your way and increase the fruits of your righteousness.
@kunle
ttalks has given good advice.rest,relax. And so that hopefully you don't bring this up again,the Bible doesn't say that Abraham gave out 90%.Hebrews clarifies that he gave a tenth of his spoils,not of Lot's goods or the king of Sodom's goods but of his spoils.what he got from those 5kings that were defeated.just a lidu observation.

Tithing is an Old Testament concept. The tithe was a requirement of the law in which all Israelites were to give 10% of everything they earned and grew to the Tabernacle / Temple (Leviticus 27:30; Numbers 18:26; Deuteronomy 14:24; 2 Chronicles 31:5). Some understand the Old Testament tithe as a method of taxation to provide for the needs of the priests and Levites of the sacrificial system. The New Testament nowhere commands, or even recommends that Christians submit to a legalistic tithe system. Paul states that believers should set aside a portion of their income in order to support the church (1 Corinthians 16:1-2).

The New Testament nowhere assigns a certain percentage of income to set aside, but only says it is to be “in keeping with his income” (1 Corinthians 16:2). The Christian church has essentially taken the 10% figure from the Old Testament tithe and applied it as a “recommended minimum” for Christians in their giving. Although the New Testament does not identify a specific amount or percentage to give, it does talk about the importance and benefits of giving. They should give as they are able, “in keeping with his income.” Sometimes that means giving more than a tithe, sometime that may mean giving less than a tithe. It all depends on the ability of the Christian and the needs of the church. Each and every Christian should diligently pray and seek God’s wisdom as to whether to participate in tithing and/or for how much he or she should give (James 1:5). “Each man should give what he has decided in his heart to give, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver” (2 Corinthians 9:7).

There is no need for personal attacks, we are all trying to serve the same God (I know I am) and knowledge is important to be able to distinguish the Wolves from the Sheep in these end times we live in.
You have to be yoruba to get what Obey and Sunny sings about just like you have to educate your self to understand the Bible rather than let the Wolves teach you incorrectly. God bless each and everyone of us as we seek his truth.

Bros abose,

Is there something the matter? It seems you're sadly contradicting yourself; and if that's the case, it doesn't help for you to make such embarrasingly contradictory statements all in your quest to prove yourself an anti-tither. On the one hand, you accept something; then on the other hand you reject the very same thing you've accepted. Here's an example:

1.

abose:
Paul states that believers should set aside a portion of their income in order to support the church (1 Corinthians 16:1-2).

. . then:
2.

abose:
The New Testament nowhere assigns a certain percentage of income to set aside, but only says it is to be “in keeping with his income” (1 Corinthians 16:2)

Indeed, the NT does not argue for a rigid figure; but is it that the word "portion" (of income) is confusing to you as a difficult and different thing from "percentage" (of income)? I'm just wondering, though.  What is a 'portion of income' if it does not convey the same sense as 'percentage' of one's income? As I've said several times, "anything you set apart from your income is also a percentage"; and here's some help to buttress that statement for you:

Basically, both a 'portion' and a 'percentage' of one's income point to the same idea - see, for instance, the following:

[list][li]freedictionary.com >>
portion: "a part separated from a whole"[/li]
.
.
[li]Merriam-Webster's LD online >>
percent: "2 [singular] : a part of a whole : PORTION ▪ A large percent [=(more commonly) percentage] of their profits comes from online sales."[/li][/list]

Hence, if a portion basically conveys the same sense as a percentage ('of income'), what is the substance in arguing two things, that -

[list][li]*'believers should set aside a portion of their income'[/li]
[li]*the NT 'nowhere assigns a certain percentage of income to set aside'[/li][/list].

If you're happy that believers should set aside a portion, is it too much to also say that believers could set aside a percentage of their income and mean the same thing? Any "portion" or "percentage" will do, as long as the giver is doing so cheerfully and not by obligation or coercion. This is why I believe several other versions point to the same thing:

[list]ALT - 'let each one of you* be putting aside [something],
storing up [or, saving] whatever he shall be prospering'[/list]

[list]CEV - 'each of you must put aside part of what you have earned'[/list]

[list]ESV - 'each of you is to put something aside and store it up,
as he may prosper'[/list]

[list]ISV - 'each of you should set aside and save some of your money
in proportion to what you have'[/list]

[list]Amplified - 'let each one of you [personally] put aside something
and save it up as he has prospered [in proportion to what he is given]'[/list]

[list]NLT - 'you should each put aside a portion of the money you have earned'[/list]

So, whether it is a 'part', or a 'portion', or in 'proportion', or 'some', the basic idea in all these is simply that whatever you set aside from the whole is still a percentage of your whole. Notice this is the consistent thing I've been calling your attention to - "whatever" does not mean it has to be exactly "10%", for it is simply what a giver has purposed in his/her heart to set aside.

abose:

There is no need for personal attacks, we are all trying to serve the same God (I know I am) and knowledge is important to be able to distinguish the Wolves from the Sheep in these end times we live in.

Praise God. If you recognize that there's no need for personal attacks, why your derogation against others earlier?

abose:

You have to be yoruba to get what Obey and Sunny sings about just like you have to educate your self to understand the Bible rather than let the Wolves teach you incorrectly. God bless each and everyone of us as we seek his truth.

People who have chosen to give tithes know what they're doing. If we want to expose wolves, we should do so in a healthy manner and not use 'tithes' as an excuse for unjustified assertions. God bless you.

The point I have stated all along is that we are not bound by a hard number as Christians, you should give what your heart desires and can afford. Material prosperity is not the lot of a real Christian, we should be more like Christ in everything we do and not be fooled. In these end times, not everyone that claims to be spirit filled is filled with the Christian kind of spirit as they might be playing for the other team. If Jesus Christ said there are "weightier" matters of the law, I will much rather follow him than someone claiming to be filled with a spirit I don't understand as a Christian, "the eye is the light of the body, if the eye is good the body will be full of light, " Lucifer is very much around and some of these folks we think are working for Jesus are actually knowingly or unknowingly playing for the other team. Just becuase someone calls themselves a christian doesn't mean they are, to each his own.

@abose,

abose:

The point I have stated all along is that we are not bound by a hard number as Christians, you should give what your heart desires and can afford.

Easy bros, have I been arguing for a 'hard number' all this time? Perhaps it may help you to go through several of my posts where I've often highlighted the fact that tithes are not always and only '10%' - even honest anti-tithers who write hundreds of pages against the subject will tell you it is not always 10% even though it is called 'tithe'. Your complaints about Lucifer and some people claiming to be Christian, etc. seem more to be deflections than a balanced approach to this subject. We don't have to bring in such things as if it was 'tithes' that turned Lucifer into the devil. Haba. Let's try and keep all these unrelated issues in their proper perspectives and not mix up ideas here and there. Blessings.