jerrymania:

Now to all atheist. all i ever want to know is if you guys believe in miracles.

First define miracles. I guess I don't but that depends on your definition of miracles.

jerrymania:

do you also deny the existence of miracles? or supernatural occurences?

Do supernatural occurrences exist? Possibly, but none have been established so far, so I don't hold my breath. Anyway, please be aware that something that currently doesn't have a natural explanation yet not necessarily can be ascribed to the supernatural. Almost everything that used to be attributed to the supernatural in the past now has a natural explanation and I'm fairly confident that the remaining gaps in our knowledge will be plugged in due time.

jerrymania:


Lets start from there!

And what is your purpose?

atheism is an act of either ignorance or rebellion!

Atheism is an act of rationalism, while organized religion is an act of delusion.

As Richard Dawkins so eloquently explains.

A more lighthearted explanation by Bill Maher.

dtw_sola:

Atheism is an act of rationalism, while organized religion is an act of delusion.

that is your own school of thought. I certainly do not think christianity is an act of delusion, perhaps to those of you who are desperate to hang unto just about anything to assuage guilty consciences (even though you deny it).

The atheist test has proved a few facts. 

1. That there are no genuine atheists

2. That there may be a few agnostics

3. That the agnostics are either foolish or have ulterior motives for sticking to their guns

4. That the admission of the existence of God will make them accountable for their sins and hence they silence their consciences to the obvious.

5. The terror and horror of facing God as the Judge after death.

I challenge all those who claim to be genuine atheists to answer the above 6 atheist test sincerely and honestly and also the moral test at the end to see whether they can pass them or not.

@KAG, I appreciate the fact that you made an attempt to answer the atheist test even though you seemed to get stuck midway. Try to complete the test without deviating from the point. Thanks.

davidylan:

that is your own school of thought. I certainly do not think christianity is an act of delusion, perhaps to those of you who are desperate to hang unto just about anything to assuage guilty consciences (even though you deny it).

Of course.

OLAADEGBU:

The atheist test has proved a few facts.

1. That there are no genuine atheists

It didn't do anything of the sort.

2. That there may be a few agnostics

There are many agnostics

3. That the agnostics are either foolish or have ulterior motives for sticking to their guns

Or that Ray Comfort doesn't have a head for logic

4. That the admission of the existence of God will make them accountable for their sins and hence they silence their consciences to the obvious.

I love the hubris in thinking people are atheists just because they are scared of your God or that they only reject the existence of your God.

5. The terror and horror of facing God as the Judge after death.

I'm scared of being eaten last.

I challenge all those who claim to be genuine atheists to answer the above 6 atheist test sincerely and honestly and also the moral test at the end to see whether they can pass them or not.

@KAG, I appreciate the fact that you made an attempt to answer the atheist test even though you seemed to get stuck midway. Try to complete the test without deviating from the point. Thanks.

Actually, I got bored because it's not the first time I've seen the long convoluted Way of the Master illogic.

There are some facts of life that I want the so called atheists and agnostics to ponder on.

1.  That God created you and gave you the breath of life.  Whether you believe He exists or not there is nothing you can do to change that fact

2.  That you are a spirit being, you have a soul and you live in a body.  You cannot deny the fact that you have a body which is just a shell, that enables you to use your five senses.  Your soul comprises of your freewill, personality, mind and conscience.  The fact that everybody has a conscience which God has programmed in us to be able to discern good and evil cannot be denied.  Your spirit is the only part of us that can communicate with God and to worship Him in Spirit and truth. Our spiritman is dead because of sin and unbelief.

3.  That everybody dies.  This is not depended upon whether you believe it or not, the fact is that at one point in time we all physically die, that is when the spirit and soul are separated from the body.  One may not believe in the law of gravity but the moment you test it by jumping from a 20 storey building it will be too late to tell the story.  The law of sin and death once tested and you die it will be too late to tell the story that there is life after death.

4.  That God is going to judge you after death based on what you have done with your conscience or what decision you made with the sacrifice that Jesus Christ made for you.  It is either you have allowed the jugdment mete on Jesus to be on your behalf or that you will face God to defend your actions by yourself and be judged.

5.  That the decision you make here on earth before you die will determine where you will spend your eternity, heaven the dwelling place of God or to be eternally separated from God in the lake of fire with the devil and his angels. 

God has chosen life for you in Jesus Christ, my advise to you will be to choose life over death.  There is the law of sin and death that we have all inherited from the first man, Adam.  Since Adam sinned sin and death passed to all men, but thank God for the last Adam, Jesus Christ who is heavenly and holy and that by believing in Him you will have eternal life with God and begin to enjoy the righteousness of God, the peace of God that passess all understanding and the joy of God in your heart that flows like a river.  Then you will be able to apply the Spirit of the law of Christ in your life.

"For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death."

Romans 8:2

OLAADEGBU:

There are some facts of life that I want the so called atheists and agnostics to ponder on.

1. That God created you and gave you the breath of life. Whether you believe He exists or not there is nothing you can do to change that fact

Why don't you first establish that fact beyond a shadow of a doubt. You empty assertions are no replacement for evidence, my dear friend.

OLAADEGBU:

2. That you are a spirit being, you have a soul and you live in a body. You cannot deny the fact that you have a body which is just a shell, that enables you to use your five senses. Your soul comprises of your freewill, personality, mind and conscience.

Give me some evidence for the existence of that so-called soul, then you may have the beginning of a point.

OLAADEGBU:

The fact that everybody has a conscience which God has programmed in us to be able to discern good and evil cannot be denied.

Oh yes it can. Sociopaths an psychopaths don't have any conscience at all. Before you ramble about 'what God programmed in us', why don't you establish the existence of your God first.

OLAADEGBU:
Your spirit which is the only part of us that can communicate with God and to worship Him is dead because of sin in our lives including unbelief.

Right and could you translate that into coherent English?

OLAADEGBU:

3. That everybody dies. This is not depended upon whether you believe it or not, the fact is that at one point in time we all physically die, that is when the spirit and soul are separated from the body.

And how do you know that? Because some ancient text penned by down by a bunch of semi-literate bronze age herders tells yo so?

OLAADEGBU:
One may not believe in the law of gravity but the moment you test it by jumping from a 20 storey building it will be too late to tell the story.

Contrary to your fairytales, gravitational forces have been confirmed empirically over and over again, but I guess understanding the scientific method is most likely a bridge too far into unchartered intellectual territory.

OLAADEGBU:

The law of sin and death once tested and you die it will be too late to tell the story that there is life after death.

Which makes it untestable, how convenient, isn't it?

OLAADEGBU:

4. That God is going to judge you after death based on what you have done with your conscience or what decision you made with the sacrifice that Jesus Christ made for you. It is either you have allowed the jugdment mete on Jesus to be on your behalf or that you will face God to defend your actions by yourself and be judged.

And some more "hocus-pocus" follows

OLAADEGBU:

5. That the decision you make here on earth before you die will determine where you will spend your eternity, heaven the dwelling place of God or to be eternally separated from God in the lake of fire with the devil and his angels.

I knew somehow that Christianity had to be some cult of death, thanks for confirming my suspicions.

OLAADEGBU:

God has chosen life for you in Jesus Christ, my advise to you will be to choose life over death. There is the law of sin and death that we have all inherited from the first man, Adam. Since Adam sinned sin and death passed to all men, but thank God for the last Adam, Jesus Christ who is heavenly and holy and that by believing in Him you will have eternal life with God and begin to enjoy the righteousness of God, the peace of God that passess all understanding and the joy of God in your heart that flows like a river. Then you will be able to apply the Spirit of the law of Christ in your life.

"For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death."

Romans 8:2

Isn't it wonderful to be able to be judgemental and self-centered while at the same time covering yourself under a cloak of modesty? How 'Christian' of you.

@nferyn,

I will like you to complete the following atheist (1-5) and moral (6) test for me to determine whether you are truly an atheist or an agnostic and to know how sincere you really are before I can answer your questions. I hope this is written in Ingrish

OLAADEGBU:

The theory of evolution of the Coca Cola can.

Billions of years ago, a big bang produced a large rock. As the rock cooled, sweet brown liquid formed on its surface. As time passed, aluminum formed itself into a can, a lid, and a tab. Millions of years later, red and white paint fell from the sky, and formed itself into the words "Coca Cola 12 fluid ounces."

Of course, my theory is an insult to your intellect, because you know that if the Coca Cola can is made, there must be a maker. If it is designed, there must be a designer. The alternative, that it happened by chance or accident, is to move into an intellectual free zone.

The banana -- the atheist's nightmare.

Note that the banana:

Is shaped for human hand
Has non-slip surface
Has outward indicators of inward content:
Green-too early,
Yellow-just right,
Black-too late.
Has a tab for removal of wrapper
Is perforated on wrapper
Bio-degradable wrapper
Is shaped for human mouth
Has a point at top for ease of entry
Is pleasing to taste buds
Is curved towards the face to make eating process easy

To say that the banana happened by accident is even more unintelligent than to say that no one designed the Coca Cola can.

TEST ONE
The person who thinks the Coca Cola can had no designer is:
     ___ A. Intelligent
     ___ B. A fool
     ___ C. Has an ulterior motive for denying the obvious 

Did you know that the eye has 40,000,000 nerve endings, the focusing muscles move an estimated 100,000 times a day, and the retina contains 137,000,000 light sensitive cells?

Charles Darwin said,

"To suppose that the eye could have been formed by natural selection, seems I freely confess, absurd in the highest degree."

If man cannot begin to make a human eye, how could anyone in his right mind think that eyes formed by mere chance? In fact, man cannot make anything from nothing. We don't know how to do it. We can re-create, reform, develop . . . but we cannot create even one grain of sand from nothing. Yet, the eye is only a small part of the most sophisticated part of creation-the human body.

George Gallup, the famous statistician, said,

"I could prove God statistically; take the human body alone; the chance that all the functions of the individual would just happen, is a statistical monstrosity."




Albert Einstein said,

"Everyone who is seriously interested in the pursuit of science becomes convinced that a spirit is manifest in the laws of the universe—a spirit vastly superior to man, and one in the face of which our modest powers must feel humble."





TEST TWO
A. Do you know of any building that didn't have a builder?

___ YES  ___ NO

B. Do you know of any painting that didn't have a painter?

___ YES  ___ NO

C. Do you know of any car that didn't have a maker?

___ YES  ___ NO
If you answered "YES" for any of the above, give details:
_____________________________________________
_____________________________________________


Could I convince you that I dropped 50 oranges onto the ground and they by chance fell into ten rows of five oranges? The logical conclusion is that someone with an intelligent mind put them there. The odds that ten oranges would fall by accident into a straight line are mind-boggling, let alone ten rows of five.



TEST THREE
A. From the atom to the universe, is there order?

___ YES  ___ NO

B. Did it happen by accident?

___ YES  ___ NO

C. Or, must there have been an intelligent mind?

___ YES  ___ NO

D. What are the chances of 50 oranges falling by chance
into ten rows of five oranges? ______________________
If you answered "YES" for any of the above, give details:
_____________________________________________
_____________________________________________


The declaration "There is no God" is what is known as an absolute statement. For an absolute statement to be true, I must have absolute knowledge.

Here is another absolute statement: "There is no gold in China."

TEST FOUR
What do I need to have for that statement to be true?
A. No knowledge of China.

___ YES  ___ NO

B. Partial knowledge of China.

___ YES  ___ NO

C. Absolute knowledge of China.

___ YES  ___ NO

"C" is the correct answer. For the statement to be true, I must know that there is no gold in China, or the statement is incorrect. To say "There is no God," and to be correct in the statement, I must be omniscient.

I must know how many hairs are upon every head, every thought of every human heart, every detail of history, every atom within every rock, nothing is hidden from my eyes, I know the intimate details of the secret love-life of the fleas on the back of the black cat of Napolean's great-grandmother. To make the absolute statement "There is no God." I must have absolute knowledge that there isn't one.

Let's say that this circle represents all the knowledge in the entire universe, and let's assume that you have an incredible 1% of all that knowledge. Is it possible, that in the knowledge you haven't yet come across, there is ample evidence to prove that God does indeed exist?

If you are reasonable, you will have to say, "Having the limited knowledge that I have at present, I believe that there is no God." In other words, you don't know if God exists, so you are not an "atheist," you are what is commonly known as an "agnostic." You are like a man who looks at a building, and doesn't know if there was a builder.

TEST FIVE
The man who sees a building and doesn't know if there was a builder is:
     ___ A. Intelligent
     ___ B. A fool
     ___ C. Has an ulterior motive for denying the obvious 

Perhaps you have questions that hold you back from faith. First, almost every question you have about suffering humanity etc., can be adequately answered.

Second, we have faith in plenty of things we don't understand. Did you understand the mechanics of television before you turned it on? Probably not. You took a step of faith, turned it on, and after it worked, understanding how it worked wasn't that important. We accept that there are unseen television waves right in front of our eyes. We can't see them because they are invisible. For them to manifest, we need a receiver, then we can enjoy the experience of television.

God is not flesh and blood. He is an eternal Spirit-immortal and invisible. Like the television waves, He cannot be experienced until the "receiver" is switched on. Here is something you will find hard to believe: Jesus said, "He who has My commandments and keeps them, he it is who loves Me. And he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and manifest Myself to him" (John 14:21).

Either that is true or it isn't. Jesus Christ says that He will manifest Himself to anyone who obeys Him. Approach the subject the same way you approached your first television set. Just take a small step of faith. If it works, enjoy it, if it doesn't, forget it.

Or have you an ulterior motive? Could it be that the "atheist" can't find God, for the same reason a thief can't find a policeman? Could it be that your love for sin is clouding your good judgment? If the Bible is true, and Jesus Christ has "abolished death and brought life and immortality to light through the Gospel," then you owe it to yourself just to check it out. Here is how to do that:

TEST SIX
With a tender conscience,
check this list of the Ten Commandments: Have I always loved God my Creator with all my heart, mind, soul and strength?
Have I made a god in my own image�a god to suit myself?
Have I ever used God's name in vain?
Have I kept the Sabbath holy?
Have I always honoured my parents implicitly?
Have I murdered (God considers hatred as murder)?
Have I committed adultery (including premarital sex and lust)?
Have I stolen (the value is irrelevant)?
Have I lied (including fibs and these questions)?
Have I coveted (been greedy or materialistic)?

____YES  ___NO
 
___ YES  ___NO
___ YES  ___NO
___ YES  ___NO
 
___ YES  ___NO
 
___ YES  ___NO
 
___ YES  ___NO
___ YES  ___NO
 
___ YES  ___NO
 
___ YES  ___NO 


If you have even broken one Law, then you have sinned against God and therefore will "surely die," for the "wages of sin is death."

We are all guilty of breaking the Commandments. Listen to the voice of your conscience, and let it remind you of some of the sins of the past. We are not perfect as we are commanded to be (Matthew 5:48), neither is our heart pure. On Judgment Day our transgressions will be the evidence of our shame. Think of it: God has seen every sin we have ever committed. We share our thought-life with Him.

We are guilty of violating His Law a multitude of times, yet if we repent, God can forgive us because Jesus stepped into the courtroom 2,000 years ago and paid the fine for us.

His death on the cross satisfied the Law we so blatantly transgressed, and at the same time demonstrated how much God loves us—"For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life." His shed blood on the cross can make you clean in the sight of a holy God, as though you have never sinned.

God doesn't want you to go to Hell. Please, forget your arguments, repent and put your trust in Jesus and be saved from God's wrath. Make Psalm 51 your prayer, then read your Bible daily and always obey what you read; God will never let you down. Thank you for taking the time to read this message.

Adapted from God Doesn't Believe in Atheists
by Ray Comfort (Living Waters)
available through your Christian bookstore.

OLAADEGBU:

@nferyn,

I will like you to complete the following atheist (1-5) and moral (6) test for me to determine whether you are truly an atheist or an agnostic and to know how sincere you really are before I can answer your questions.

Great, now it's up to the theists to determine what atheism is

Your whole Ray Comfort 'test' is one fallacious argument based on false premises and a complete lack of understanding of what the Theory of Evolution is (as well as missing an elementary grasp of deductive logic). KAG dealt with it quite satisfactorily already, so I'll leave it at that.

Anyway, please answer the following question so that I can determine whether or not you are a genuine Christian:
When did you stop beating your wife?
1. Yesterday
2. 2 weeks ago
3. I still beat my wife regularly

Failure to answer my question will result in the your inevitable classification as a fake Christian.

OLAADEGBU:

I hope this is written in Ingrish

Something like that, yes.

nferyn:

Anyway, please answer the following question so that I can determine whether or not you are a genuine Christian:
When did you stop beating your wife?
1. Yesterday
2. 2 weeks ago
3. I still beat my wife regularly

Failure to answer my question will result in the your inevitable classification as a fake Christian.
Something like that, yes.

The answer to your questions is 'none of the above' and by the grace of God I never will .  Now that I have answered your questions would you kindly and sincerely answer the litmus test that I asked earlier?  I believe that your integrity will not allow you to duck the test this time around.

nferyn:

Why don't you first establish that fact beyond a shadow of a doubt. You empty assertions are no replacement for evidence, my dear friend.

The building is the evidence that there was a builder, and with the same logic the fact that you as a complex human being with all your faculties and ability to think and type on the keyboard is all the evidence I need to know that there is a more intelligent creator.

[/quote]
Give me some evidence for the existence of that so-called soul, then you may have the beginning of a point. 

Your spirit is the part of you that you can use to relate to God but since your spirit is dead in tresspassess and sin the communication line has been broken.  Your soul is the part of you that relates to this natural world and this consists of your will, emotions and personality which forms your character, your mind that you use to think(intellect).  An illustration is of the piano and the music (melody).  The moment you play the piano you produce the music but if you take the piano apart you don't get to see the music.  In other words, you cannot relate to God through an untransformed mind, your spirit has to be alive just as the telephone line has to be connected or the radio tunned to the right frequency before you can receive and transmit.  The soul therefore, will take on the shape on what is active, either the spirit or the body.

The Chambers dictionary defines conscience as "the sense of moral correctness that governs or influences a person's actions or thoughts."  Your conscience is what we call the police man of the soul or the alarm bell that makes us to stop and think of the consequences of our actions.  This is what the animals don't have as they can only operate on instincts, they do not stop to think about the future consequences of their actions.  Unless you want to prove otherwise.  Every human being (Homo-Sapiens) have this conscience that God exists, it is only by our conscious efforts that we delibrately try to silence it, just as we try to silence our alarm bells when we don't want to wake up from our slumber.  We try to silence our consciences because we do not want to be held accountable for our shortcomings.  This is the reason why I asked the so called atheists to answer question six on the atheists test posted above.  The same way as a thief would not want to believe that there is any policeman around the corner before he goes out on a stealing rampage because he is blinded by the thrill of the benefits of his exploits until he gets caught.  We have a proverb in our dialect that says "All days belong to the thief but one important day belongs to the owner".  You may silence your conscience that says that the evidence of the existence of God is all around you, but you can silence this voice by choosing to believe the world philosophies based on evolutionary theory which are conjectures rather than facts,they are opinions formed without proof, an opinion formed on slight or defective evidence or none at all according to the 'Chambers dictionary', and this philosophy needs more faith than to believe in the existence of God the creator. 

And how do you know that? Because some ancient text penned by down by a bunch of semi-literate bronze age herders tells yo so?
[quote]

I am surprised that you find it difficult to believe in the fact that everyone born of a woman except for two people has died or would die sooner or later in life.  Death is a certainty.

This brings us back to the beginning, when Adam ate of the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.  This disobedience brought sin and death to all mankind.  Since then man has sought for knowledge that will be without God, no wonder the human philosophies such as naturalism, humanism, atheism, hedonism, agnotism, fascism, racism, nazism, socialism, communism, materialism, capitalism, feminism and all the isms have one thing in common and that is the absence of God or the denial or dismissal of any belief in the spiritual realm.  Almost all scientific inventions that has been made has been used to kill en-mass even though it can also be used to help humans afterwards, an example is the splitting of the atom.  According to the U.S. congress communism was responsible for over 135 million deaths. The result of natural selection in the elimination and the exploitation of the 'weakest' or the 'survival of the fittest' through colonialism and racism in Africa and Asia, the Jews can tell you how the theory of nazism, racism and fascism eliminated millions of them in Germany and beyond, the millions of aborted pre-born babies and the divorce rate can testify how the fallacy of feminism has devalued the sanctity of human lives. Homosexualism, adultery, euthanasia, political correctness, multiculturalism and ego-ism(E[/b]dging [b]G[/b]od [b]O[/b]ut) have all proved how they have silenced their consciences and looking for alternative means and purpose of living that will be void of God.  These are a few of the consequences of the knowledge of good and evil that has led to a death too many.  But the tree of life was meant to give us life and that life is now given to us through the last Adam Jesus Christ so as to make us Homo-Novus, a new man in Christ.  [b]2Cor.5:17 So we can now access the wisdom of God which the natural man through his mind would find impossible.  The absolute moral commandments as seen in the 10 commandments which is to remind us of what our seared consciences that has been drowned by these human philosophies and which cannot be attained to but can only be obtained by faith in the Last Adam as we receive the free gift of eternal life, the Power and wisdom of God will be revealed in our lives. So what Adam lost in the garden of Eden through disobedience has been restored by the obedience of the Last Adam, so we can now receive this free gift of eternal life, the mind of Christ and the Power of God. 

1Cor.2:1-16

"1 AS FOR myself, brethren, when I came to you, I did not come proclaiming to you the testimony and evidence or mystery and secret of God [concerning what He has done through Christ for the salvation of men] in lofty words of eloquence or human philosophy and wisdom;
    2 For I resolved to know nothing (to be acquainted with nothing, to make a display of the knowledge of nothing, and to be conscious of nothing) among you except Jesus Christ (the Messiah) and Him crucified.

    3 And I was in (passed into a state of) weakness and fear (dread) and great trembling [after I had come] among you.

    4 And my language and my message were not set forth in persuasive (enticing and plausible) words of wisdom, but they were in demonstration of the [Holy] Spirit and power [a proof by the Spirit and power of God, operating on me and stirring in the minds of my hearers the most holy emotions and thus persuading them],

    5 So that your faith might not rest in the wisdom of men (human philosophy), but in the power of God.

    6 Yet when we are among the full-grown (spiritually mature Christians who are ripe in understanding), we do impart a [higher] wisdom (the knowledge of the divine plan previously hidden); but it is indeed not a wisdom of this present age or of this world nor of the leaders and rulers of this age, who are being brought to nothing and are doomed to pass away.

    7 But rather what we are setting forth is a wisdom of God once hidden [from the human understanding] and now revealed to us by God--[that wisdom] which God devised and decreed before the ages for our glorification [to lift us into the glory of His presence].

    8 None of the rulers of this age or world perceived and recognized and understood this, for if they had, they would never have crucified the Lord of glory.

    9 But, on the contrary, as the Scripture says, What eye has not seen and ear has not heard and has not entered into the heart of man, [all that] God has prepared (made and keeps ready) for those who love Him [who hold Him in affectionate reverence, promptly obeying Him and gratefully recognizing the benefits He has bestowed].

    10 Yet to us God has unveiled and revealed them by and through His Spirit, for the [Holy] Spirit searches diligently, exploring and examining everything, even sounding the profound and bottomless things of God [the divine counsels and things hidden and beyond man's scrutiny].

    11 For what person perceives (knows and understands) what passes through a man's thoughts except the man's own spirit within him? Just so no one discerns (comes to know and comprehend) the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God.

    12 Now we have not received the spirit [that belongs to] the world, but the [Holy] Spirit Who is from God, [given to us] that we might realize and comprehend and appreciate the gifts [of divine favor and blessing so freely and lavishly] bestowed on us by God.

    13 And we are setting these truths forth in words not taught by human wisdom but taught by the [Holy] Spirit, combining and interpreting spiritual truths with spiritual language [to those who possess the Holy Spirit].

    14 But the natural, nonspiritual man does not accept or welcome or admit into his heart the gifts and teachings and revelations of the Spirit of God, for they are folly (meaningless nonsense) to him; and he is incapable of knowing them [of progressively recognizing, understanding, and becoming better acquainted with them] because they are spiritually discerned and estimated and appreciated.

    15 But the spiritual man tries all things [he examines, investigates, inquires into, questions, and discerns all things], yet is himself to be put on trial and judged by no one [he can read the meaning of everything, but no one can properly discern or appraise or get an insight into him].

    16For who has known or understood the mind (the counsels and purposes) of the Lord so as to guide and instruct Him and give Him knowledge? But we have the mind of Christ (the Messiah) and do hold the thoughts (feelings and purposes) of His heart."

The above scriptures proves that it is difficult and impossible for the natural, non-spiritual man who was born Homo-Sapien, and has inherited the original sin from Adam through his unregenerated mind that is dependent on the knowledge of good and evil, to understand, comprehend and correctly recognise the wisdom of God that is far superior to the human philosophies.  It is only those who have now become Homo-Novus that is, a new man by faith in the Last Adam2Cor.5:17, who is heavenly and spiritual, who is the[b] Logos[/b] of the whole universe, that is , the reason why we live, move and have our being.

@KAG, Nferyn and the gang,

I know that it will be insultive to say that the so called atheists are ignorant, if I put myself in your own shoes that is, looking through your own goggles I will be seeing the same thing you are now seeing.  The goggles that I wear are the goggles of faith in the living God.  'Faith' meaning seeing what God sees and acting on it.  Your goggles are the goggles of the evolutionary theory that is based on conjectures or hypothesis that has not been proven as facts and will require more faith than mine to believe.  But both of us have the same fossils or evidences to work on.  The only difference is the presupposition that we start from.  I start from the FAITH of the Creation theory as revealed in the book of 'Genesis' while you start from a different assumption to mine, you start from the assumption of the 'big bang' theory as to the reason for existence.

If I say that you should read out this sentence through your own goggles "Godisnowhere" where would you place the spaces or the emphasis in the sentence?  You will definitely read it as "God is nowhere".  But if I should read the same sentence using my own goggles I will read it as "God is now here".  You will realise that we used the same evidence, material or words but with different spaces, emphasis or  presuppositions, hence we arrive at different conclusions.

According to my own goggles I read in the book of Genesis that Adam was the first man to be created.  If you were to be transported back in time and space to that day using your goggles to determine the age of Adam then I am sure that you would say that he was about 30 years old  even though he was just some seconds old.  That is why your determination of the ages of the fossils or rocks would be defective because you where not there and your knowledge as to the events that took place around that time would be limited.  The bottomline is that God who created the universe and the earth has revealed to us His mind and purpose in the Truth book and the earlier we take it as the truth the better it will be for us to keep us healthy spiritually, mentally, morally, socially, physically and emotionally.

@ all

bananas i dont seem to get that analogy of bananas.

@seun

does that banana chase you too? in your dreams?

does it happen everytime?

OLAADEGBU:

@KAG, Nferyn and the gang,

I know that it will be insultive to say that the so called atheists are ignorant, if I put myself in your own shoes that is, looking through your own goggles I will be seeing the same thing you are now seeing. The goggles that I wear are the goggles of faith in the living God. 'Faith' meaning seeing what God sees and acting on it. Your goggles are the goggles of the evolutionary theory that is based on conjectures or hypothesis that has not been proven as facts and will require more faith than mine to believe.

Don't be silly. If the theory of evolution required faith, it would be a theory. By the way, no, my "goggles" aren't the theory of evolution which, fyi, isn't based on conjectures, etc.

But both of us have the same fossils or evidences to work on. The only difference is the presupposition that we start from. I start from the assumption of the Creation theory as revealed in the book of 'Genesis' while you start from a different assumption to mine, you start from the assumption of the 'big bang' theory as to the reason of existence.

The Big Bang theory isn't the reason for existence.

If I say that you should read out this sentence through your own goggles "Godisnowhere" where would you place the spaces or the emphasis in the sentence? You will definitely read it as "God is nowhere". But if I should read the same sentence using my own goggles I will read it as "God is now here". You will realise that we used the same evidence, material or words but with different spaces, emphasis or presuppositions, hence we arrive at different conclusions.

Copy/paste:

Are you sure it isn't "God I snow here"? That makes the most sense. Incidentally, I did read it as "God is now here" - for whatever it is worth. However, when it comes to things like science theories versus Creationism, or even religion against non-religion, it most often isn't a case of interpreting the evidence differently using the same materials, etc, it's usually a case of one claiming "God is now here", but the letters are invisible or there's no need for letters anyway.

According to my own goggles I read in the book of Genesis that Adam was the first man to be created.

According to mine, Oceanius had a hand in the birth of the Earth. Go figure.

If you were to be transported back in time and space to that day using your goggles to determine the age of Adam then I am sure that you would say that he was about 30 years old even though he was just some seconds old. That is why your determination of the ages of the fossils or rocks would be defective because you where not there and your knowledge as to the events that took place around that time would be limited.

Would I also say that he has tooth missing from a fight he got into when he was 16? And, he had an appendix removed when he was 12, hence the missing appendix at age 30? What about memories of his favorite barber - who for some bizarre reason has kept most of Adam's hair - and his hospital having records of when and where his placenta was removed?

The point is, if you haven't gotten it, the Earth has a history - radiometric dating is only one aspect of dating the Earth's age. While, it certainly is possible that a God or Being created the Earth last Thursday (see "last Thursdayism": http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Last_Thursdayism) with embedded history ad stuff, it's hardly parsimonious. Besides, a being that does that is either deceitful or mischievious.

The bottomline is that God who created the universe and the earth has revealed to us His mind and purpose in the Truth book and the earlier we take it as the truth the better it will be for us to keep us healthy spiritually, mentally, morally, socially, physically and emotionally.

You Lovecraft peddlers are all the same: always calling him God and a collection of his books, the Truth book. Look, let me tell you something, I already have a copy and it hasn't kept me healthy and stuff and, also, I'm no longer scared of being eaten because I have the Dianetics.

Aladunni:

@ all

bananas i don't seem to get that analogy of bananas.

It's like a can of coke (or, according to one fruity lass, cock) from Ray's perspective, therefore God.

[quote author=KAG While Comfort is right that the banana is the atheist's nightmare (after all, everyone knows that the dreams of all true atheists consists of giant bananas chasing them to chew them),
[/quote]

you seem to be confusing me now, you said its right and i wish to know how right, its a little scary to me thatz all, or you r being sarcastic

Aladunni:

you seem to be confusing me now, you said its right and i wish to know how right, its a little scary to me thatz all, or you r being sarcastic

Sarcastic.

KAG:

Sarcastic.

was my spelling wrong?

@ OLAADEGBU

please is it true that bananas pursue original atheists? just wish to know

i will be grateful for an answer but if not,, all i know is that,

thanks for the modification

Aladunni:

was my spelling wrong?

No.

Aladunni:

@ OLAADEGBU
please is it true that bananas pursue original atheists? just wish to know

KAG is in the best position to answer that question.

@OLAADEGBU, "so faith means seeing what god sees and acting on it"?

OLAADEGBU:

Why don't you first establish that fact beyond a shadow of a doubt. You empty assertions are no replacement for evidence, my dear friend.

The building is the evidence that there was a builder, and with the same logic the fact that you as a complex human being with all your faculties and ability to think and type on the keyboard is all the evidence I need to know that there is a more intelligent creator.

Ah reasoning by analogy, don't you love the accuracy and precision of the Christian apologist' arguments?
Why do you infer a creator when no such creator is necessary to explain the appearance of 'design'? Natural selection is perfectly capable of arriving at immensely complex adapted structures without any use of intentional design. The evolution of the camera-lens eye, which happened multiple independent times in evolutionary history is only one such an example.

OLAADEGBU:

Give me some evidence for the existence of that so-called soul, then you may have the beginning of a point.

Your spirit is the part of you that you can use to relate to God but since your spirit is dead in tresspassess and sin the communication line has been broken.

Now you tell me what my spirit is used for and that it is a dead part of me, but you're not one step closer at explaining what it actually is or how we can detect it. You like to define things into existence, don't you?

OLAADEGBU:

Your soul is the part of you that relates to this natural world and this consists of your will, emotions and personality which forms your character, your mind that you use to think(intellect).

Your definitions don't bring us any closer to actually getting a grasp of what a soul is. If it is only the combination of those characteristics, then you have no reason to infer the properties of that so called 'soul' described below as these properties cannot possibly be detected. You're defining things into existence again, an external verification of your concepts is nigh impossible.

OLAADEGBU:

An illustration is of the piano and the music (melody). The moment you play the piano you produce the music but if you take the piano apart you don't get to see the music. In other words, you cannot relate to God through an untransformed mind, your spirit has to be alive just as the telephone line has to be connected or the radio tunned to the right frequency before you can receive and transmit. The soul therefore, will take on the shape on what is active, either the spirit or the body.

Your analogy - the favorite theist' rhetorical trick - is inapplicable, as the referents are non-existent or have to be established first. Music is an emergent property of the instruments and the intentions of the people using them, all of which can be empirically detected. No such luck though for your soul, spirit and God.

OLAADEGBU:

The Chambers dictionary defines conscience as "the sense of moral correctness that governs or influences a person's actions or thoughts." Your conscience is what we call the police man of the soul or the alarm bell that makes us to stop and think of the consequences of our actions.

I'm quite sure no dictionary defines conscience as 'the police man of the soul', you're defining things into existence again.

OLAADEGBU:

This is what the animals don't have as they can only operate on instincts, they do not stop to think about the future consequences of their actions.

This is where you're wrong, some do, albeit to a lesser extent than humans. Dolphins and bonobos have engaged in intentional, reflective behaviour. By the way, why do you think that humans don't act on instinct as well. Instinct determines our behaviour to a large extent, even though we try to rationalise our behaviour after the fact.

OLAADEGBU:

Unless you want to prove otherwise. Every human being (Homo-Sapiens) have this conscience that God exists, it is only by our conscious efforts that we delibrately try to silence it,

Oh dear, you now have reshaped conscience from the stance that directs your intentionality into ethical behaviour to include the 'knowledge' that God exists. Could that possibly be to only include theists in your definition of conscious people. Very sly trick indeed. If your definition were true, theists would objectively be morally superiour to atheists, something that flies in the face of the empirical evidence. there is not a single finding that establishes that atheist behaviour is less moral that theist behaviour, on the contrary, there are e.g. proportionally far moer theists in prison than atheists, also Evangelical Christians have higher divorce rates than liberal Christians, who then still have higher divorce rates than atheists and agnostics. So much for your moral superiority

OLAADEGBU:

just as we try to silence our alarm bells when we don't want to wake up from our slumber. We try to silence our consciences because we do not want to be held accountable for our shortcomings.

Another inept analogy. Why don't you keep your analogies for the children in Sunday class, they've just just reached the level of intellectual maturity at which these kind of arguments make an impression.
I urge you to give deductive and inductive logic try

OLAADEGBU:

This is the reason why I asked the so called atheists to answer question six on the atheists test posted above. The same way as a thief would not want to believe that there is any policeman around the corner before he goes out on a stealing rampage because he is blinded by the thrill of the benefits of his exploits until he gets caught.

Maybe you're just projecting your own shortcomings on others. I am in no need for the fear of retribution and punishment from a celestial dictator to guide my ethics. I'm quite capable of maintaining my own moral standards without fear for divine intervention, unlike many of our theist friends who seem to believe that they only behave morally because of their skydaddy and his carrots and sticks (forgive me the use of analogy here, i thought it was fitting for the situation ).

OLAADEGBU:

We have a proverb in our dialect that says "All days belong to the thief but one important day belongs to the owner". You may silence your conscience that says that the evidence of the existence of God is all around you,

Or so you think. Which evidence, my dear Watson, which evidence?

OLAADEGBU:

but you can silence this voice by choosing to believe the world philosophies based on evolutionary theory which are conjectures rather than facts,they are opinions formed without proof, an opinion formed on slight or defective evidence or none at all according to the 'Chambers dictionary', and this philosophy needs more faith than to believe in the existence of God the creator.

It's quite difficult to put so many conjectures and misconceptions in one sentence. The very least I can say is that you try
1. which philosophies?
2. TOE: conjecures: how?
3. TOE: no facts: how?
4. opinions without proof: why? Why use the word proof?
5. formed on slight or defective evidence: explain why it is slight or defective?
6. none at all according to chambers dictionary, explain? Are we talking about a uniquely 'Christian' dictionary here?
7. philosophy needs more faith to believe in that in the existence of God the creator, why?
Lots of assertions, no substance.

OLAADEGBU:

And how do you know that? Because some ancient text penned by down by a bunch of semi-literate bronze age herders tells yo so?

I am surprised that you find it difficult to believe in the fact that everyone born of a woman except for two people has died or would die sooner or later in life. Death is a certainty.

I wasn't referring to death but rather our implication that the 'soul' and the body separate after dying.

OLAADEGBU:

This brings us back to the beginning, when Adam ate of the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. This disobedience brought sin and death to all mankind.

Which you state as being factual without even the tiniest bit of evidence. Your hubris never ceases to amaze me.

OLAADEGBU:

Since then man has sought for knowledge that will be without God, no wonder the human philosophies such as naturalism, humanism, atheism, hedonism, agnotism, fascism, racism, nazism, socialism, communism, materialism, capitalism, feminism and all the isms have one thing in common and that is the absence of God or the denial or dismissal of any belief in the spiritual realm.

Let me just pick out of few of your isms as an example.
It really is good to know that fascism, racism and nazism are atheistic philosophies. Maybe you can take a time-machine and go and tell that to the devout Catholic Hitler and Franco, who carried out their policies with the blessing of the 'Holy Mother the Church'. Or maybe you can transport yourself even further back in time and talk to the slaveholders in the old US and say that their baptist defense of Slavery based on the Bible really was an atheist philosophy?
Your attempt at reasoning really is patently simplistic and factually wrong. But I didn't expect anything more, I'm affraid.

OLAADEGBU:

Almost all scientific inventions that has been made has been used to kill en-mass even though it can also be used to help humans afterwards, an example is the splitting of the atom.

A statistical statement based on a sample size of 1, how wonderful.

OLAADEGBU:

According to the US. congress communism was responsible for over 135 million deaths.

Your point?

OLAADEGBU:

The result of natural selection in the elimination and the exploitation of the 'weakest' or the 'survival of the fittest' through colonialism and racism in Africa and Asia, the Jews can tell you how the theory of nazism, racism and fascism eliminated millions of them in Germany and beyond, the millions of aborted pre-born babies and the divorce rate can testify how the fallacy of feminism has devalued the sanctity of human lives.

Throw everything in one big basket, add some false statements and implications, stir and you get one emotional diabetre.

OLAADEGBU:

Homosexualism, adultery, euthanasia, political correctness, multiculturalism and ego-ism(E[/b]dging [b]G[/b]od [b]O[/b]ut) have all proved how they have silenced their consciences and looking for alternative means and purpose of living that will be void of God.

Pray tell me, dear friend, could you point out a few monstrosities carried out by secular humanists and compare them with the rivers of blood that have been shed in the name of the Most High? You can even correct for their proportions in the population.

OLAADEGBU:

These are a few of the consequences of the knowledge of good and evil that has led to a death too many.

And obviously your omnipotent God was incapable of doing anything about it?

OLAADEGBU:

But the tree of life was meant to give us life and that life is now given to us through the last Adam Jesus Christ so as to make us Homo-Novus, a new man in Christ. [b]2Cor.5:17 So we can now access the wisdom of God which the natural man through his mind would find impossible.

Good to know that Christians are always the exemplary specimens of the human species, unfortunately that couldn't be deducted from their earthly behaviour. Or maybe they're no true Scotsmen?

OLAADEGBU:
The absolute moral commandments as seen in the 10 commandments

You mean the ones that God himself regularly asks to violate, such as in Luke 14:26: "If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children,and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.". Please continue to live in your woo-woo fantasy land.

OLAADEGBU:

which is to remind us of what our seared consciences that has been drowned by these human philosophies and which cannot be attained to but can only be obtained by faith in the Last Adam as we receive the free gift of eternal life, the Power and wisdom of God will be revealed in our lives. So what Adam lost in the garden of Eden through disobedience has been restored by the obedience of the Last Adam, so we can now receive this free gift of eternal life, the mind of Christ and the Power of God.

It's always heartwarming to find out that you have a preponderance of hard evidence behind you to establish those wonderful facts, isn't it?

[SNIP]

OLAADEGBU:

The above scriptures proves

No, it doesn't prove anything at all, it asserts a lot without any evidence, that's all.

OLAADEGBU:

that it is difficult and impossible for the natural, non-spiritual man who was born Homo-Sapien, and has inherited the original sin from Adam through his unregenerated mind that is dependent on the knowledge of good and evil, to understand, comprehend and correctly recognise the wisdom of God that is far superior to the human philosophies. It is only those who have now become Homo-Novus that is, a new man by faith in the Last Adam2Cor.5:17, who is heavenly and spiritual, who is the[b] Logos[/b] of the whole universe, that is , the reason why we live, move and have our being.

Your contributions here are really beyond the pale. So much talk, so little substance and above all so much deceit. If you really want to converse with others, the very least you can do is try to understand your opponents position, but I guess that wasn't your intention, you're here to preach, aren't you?

Everyone is an atheist. It's just that those of us who say we are atheists disbelieve in one more god than you do.

Christians - Do you believe in the Greek god Zeus? Do you believe in the Hindu god Vishnu? Of course not. You are an atheist with regards to these gods. Your god is no different to us or to you or the believers in other gods.

The Greeks could 'prove' that Zeus existed and would think everyone else was wrong. The hindus can 'prove' that Vishnu exists. They would use the same arguments that you do. I bet you still wouldn't believe in Zeus or Vishnu even though someone told you they know they exist.

We are the same. We don't believe in all gods. You don't believe in all the hundreds or thousands of gods other people believe in either, but make an exception for one of them.

English1, you may want to recheck the definition of atheist. Atheists do not believe in deities of any sort. Simple as that.

I personally am a humanist agnostic, who just believes that all the major world religions are false, yet I have not completely ruled out the possibility of the existence of a god.

dtw_sola:

English1, you may want to recheck the definition of atheist. Atheists do not believe in deities of any sort. Simple as that.

I personally am a humanist agnostic, who just believes that all the major world religions are false, yet I have not completely ruled out the possibility of the existence of a god.

Quite a lot of people are reluctant to categorise themselves as atheists because of the - very successful I must say - campaign by theists to define atheism as an active rejection of God, which is only one type of atheism. You can make a typology of belief systems on two axes: knowledge (of the existence of God) and belief (in the existence of God).
On the belief axis, you have:
* atheism: the lack of belief in (a) deit(y)(ies)
* deism: the belief in an impersonal, first mover god
* pantheism: belief that the divine is embedded in the very fabric of the Cosmos
* theism: the belief in a personal God who interacts with the universe
On the 'knowledge' axis, you only have:
* agnosticism: position whereby you declare that you [b]cannot [/b]obtain knowledge about the (non)existence of deit(y)(ies)
* gnosticism: position whereby you declare that you [b]can [/b]obtain knowledge about the (non)existence of deit(y)(ies)

If you combine the two, you get a pretty good view on the belief position of a person, e.g. I am an agnostic atheist.
Now it's pretty clear that a classification on these two axis doesn't tell you anything about the philosophical postion of a person. There is as much variety among atheists (perhaps even more) than there is among theists.
You have secular humanist, epicurean, stoic, Marxist and objectivist and even satanist atheists and they are far more different in their philosophy and ethics than Muslims, Christians, Jews, Hinduists, Buddhists and animist theists are.

The idiotic lumping together of all secularists by our friend OLAADEGBU just shows how ill informed he really is and one thing that should be perfectly clear is that you shouldn't let the theists (especially the more closed-minded variety) define what you really are. There is absolutely nothing wrong with the label atheism.

"THE [empty-headed] fool has said in his heart, There is no God. Corrupt and evil are they, and doing abominable iniquity; there is none who does good."

-Psalms 53:1

In my 'nigbati' translation it puts it more succintly as "a mad (crazy or kolo- mental) man says in his heart that there is no God"

"disbelief in the existence of a god"

-Chambers Dictionary.

Here are 10 facts why atheism is proved to be absurd.

And this is by:

1. The existence of the universe.
2. The constitution of the body.
3. The innumerable living creatures in existence, each one so perfect and intricate as to make all chance of its coming into existence automatically, an impossibility.
4. The Character of God's work.
5. The preservation and government of all creations.  To think that all things came into existence and are being governed by themselves is folly.
6. It's ungodly mockery.
7. It's powerlessness to help a man to better himself and others.
8. It's degrading and immoral influence.
9. It's vastness of unproved claims.
10 The renouncing of it by it's followers in times of affliction and death.  Sir Francis Newport, Voltaire, Tom Paine, David Hume, Altamont, Ethan Allen, Thomas Hobbes and many others pleaded for mercy from God and regretted their atheism in their dying hour.

The bottomline of all these ideologies that I 'lumped together' earlier is the belief in the big bang theory, the evolutionary theory and natural selection and the theory of eugenics which are the common denominations that binds them together.  The latest name that they have developed now is the secular humanism  http://www.christiananswers.net/q-sum/sum-r002.html  which is now a religion responsible for all the degrading and immoral influence as well as the devaluation of human lives in our society today.  This is the main reason that the secular governments in the western world are against Mugabe of Zimbabwe because of his stance against homosexualism in their constitution.  Nigeria I believe has not been able to pass the homosexualism bill into law because of this reason.

It is even more absurd to think that the big bang started from nothing, the say it was some mass density that exploded but have not been able to tell us where that mass density came from.  They have not been able to adequately prove the missing links that were in the transitionary period of evolving into human beings all because they refused to believe in the divine imperative of the supernatural God.  It is high time that you guys pull your heads out of the sand and smell the coffee.

 http://www.answersingenesis.org/tj/v14/i1/females.asp

http://www.answersingenesis.org/home/area/faq/philosophy.asp

nferyn:

Let me just pick out of few of your isms as an example.
It really is good to know that fascism, racism and nazism are atheistic philosophies. Maybe you can take a time-machine and go and tell that to the devout Catholic Hitler and Franco, who carried out their policies with the blessing of the 'Holy Mother the Church'. Or maybe you can transport yourself even further back in time and talk to the slaveholders in the old US and say that their baptist defense of Slavery based on the Bible really was an atheist philosophy?
Your attempt at reasoning really is patently simplistic and factually wrong. But I didn't expect anything more, I'm affraid.
A statistical statement based on a sample size of 1, how wonderful.

If you think that 'am talking baloney go check out the weblink below then come back and tell me what you think.

http://www.answersingenesis.org/home/area/faq/racism.asp

I would rather live my life as if there is a God, and die to find out there isn't, than live my life as if there isn't, and die to find out there is.

There is God and God is so good!!!

Cheers!

freelance:

I would rather live my life as if there is a God, and die to find out there isn't, than live my life as if there isn't, and die to find out there is.


Cheers!

i think i ave nothing to loose after all