wow!! Now I have been tagged a bitch for listing the obvious!! O Boy!!

Anyways, to anyone out there who is looking to develop with .NET but wants to commercial softwars for free, please go to www.Dreamspark.com . For small business owners looking to get the same tools for free, check out www.bizspark.com. Microsoft offers you the major IDEs and tools you need to develop commercial and non-commercial software free of charge.

If you are working with Java instead, Eclipse is free.

blacksta:

@ linxon

just  out of curiosity how will microsoft or similar organisation know what free tool one used in developing a commercial software.

Thanks

I know what its like when you buy your first software as a student - you look for freebies.  I remember when I was learning Actionscript in Uni, then I wanted to the Adobe creative suite, at the time it was around £1200! So I purchased the student version for £150 which was scaled down and meant I could not produce commercial software with it. 
commercial version:  http://www.amazon.co.uk/Adobe-Creative-Suite-Production-Premium/dp/B001HNDT7K/ref=sr_1_9?ie=UTF8&s=software&qid=1241386306&sr=1-9
student version:  http://www.amazon.co.uk/Adobe-Creative-Production-Premium-65023153/dp/B0020L0H00/ref=sr_1_8?ie=UTF8&s=software&qid=1241386306&sr=1-8

So to answer your question it depends on the government and its piracy laws - stronger intellectual property rights means the nation will be richer and it will encourage innovation.  In the west most of the economies have de-industrialized and they have a prominent tertiary sector; as a result intellectual property is a huge source of revenue for the government and they take it serious!  So the golden question how dose Microsoft catch a thief?  Its all about business - something cheap bitches don't know about.

You have to look at it from a business point of view, how will you activate the software? imagine you are running a software business and your profits are $120,000 and your cost of software is $0 won't that look a bit dodgy? Even if you deploy an O.S.S solution you will still incur costs.  Secondly, you have to produce receipts for everything you have purchased (basic stuff), where will you get the receipt from if the software is not genuine? a fake receipt = crime  Thirdly, if you are making a healthy profit from software, say $130,000 why would you not want to pay $1200 (less than 10% of your net profits) to the company that provides the tools? That is like a farmer not wanting to pay for his tractor.  How will you upgrade your software? What will you tell your employees?  I can go on and on and on. 

In the real world Global giants that make Billions of Dollars like Walmart, Tesco, BP, Glaxo, BT, etc all use microsoft products and pay millions each for the priviledge - they are all making money.  The Business Software Alliance, are the main policemen for pirated software, and they offer incentives for employees to snitch on their bosses!  For example you can make up to $200,000 if you give evidence that leads to prosecution. So if you are typing away with bootlegged software and you are not making any money you are not really hurting Microsoft (or any other proprietary software company) - they are looking for the big boys who are making decent profits.

[size=15pt]"If your coding dose not make money, then it makes no sense"[/size].  On the other hand of you are making healthy profits and you have integrity why would you not want to pay for a software license? For those who have not studied business at a higher level - the buzz word now is ethics! You will fail miserably in business (in developed economies) if you do not have ethics.  On the other hand if you have ethics and run an innovative company you can make mind boggling profits!  Nigeria has one of the highest piracy levels in the world (Suprise, suprise), the policing of software piracy is pretty weak - the result is most Nigerian software companies are making PEANUTS especially on a global level:  http://www.punchng.com/Articl.aspx?theartic=Art200905013231118

Kobojunkie:

wow!! Now I have been tagged a bitch for listing the obvious!! O Boy!!

Anyways, to anyone out there who is looking to develop with .NET but wants to commercial softwars for free, please go to www.Dreamspark.com . For small business owners looking to get the same tools for free, check out www.bizspark.com. Microsoft offers you the major IDEs and tools you need to develop commercial and non-commercial software free of charge.

If you are working with Java instead, Eclipse is free.

From the official Microsoft Website for VS Express Editions ( source:  http://www.microsoft.com/info/cpyright.mspx)

PERSONAL AND NON-COMMERCIAL USE LIMITATION.

Unless otherwise specified, the Services are for your personal and non-commercial use. You may not modify, copy, distribute, transmit, display, perform, reproduce, publish, license, create derivative works from, transfer, or sell any information, software, products or services obtained from the Services.


little Junkie, [size=14pt]Olodo![/size] making petty bitchy comments, offering weak links devoid of original, knowledge as usual.

ego. . .

i wonder if MS would have gotten to where it is today if bill had been this abrasive , ditto for Linux.

especially when you consider the old joke about software designers being programmers with social skills. . .

oyb:

ego. . .

i wonder if MS would have gotten to where  it is today if bill had been this abrasive , ditto for Linux.

especially when you consider the old joke about software designers being programmers with social skills. . .

They try to irritate and make sneaky little rude comments, then they use primitive english words like "abrasive".  Haters, come in all shapes and sizes, but they have one thing in common  - they are all mediocre punks.

How many rich, ambitious, brilliant, perfectionists do not have an ego Bill Gates vs. Linus Torvalds: Who has a bigger ego?


"People everywhere love Windows." 
Bill Gates
vs.
"We all know Linux is great…it does infinite loops in 5 seconds."
Linus Torvalds

"Windows 2000 already contains features such as the human discipline component, where the PC can send an electric shock through the keyboard if the human does something that does not please Windows."
Bill Gates
vs.
"Microsoft isn't evil, they just make really crappy operating systems."
Linus Torvalds

"There are people who don't like capitalism, and people who don't like PCs. But there's no-one who likes the PC who doesn't like Microsoft."
Bill Gates
vs.
"I'd like to say that I knew this would happen, that it's all part of the plan for world domination. "
Linus Torvalds

"Be nice to nerds. Chances are you'll end up working for one."
Bill Gates
vs.
"My name is Linus Torvalds and I am your god."
Linus Torvalds

"Microsoft has had clear competitors in the past. It’s a good thing we have museums to document that. "
Bill Gates
vs.
"Really, I'm not out to destroy Microsoft. That will just be a completely unintentional side effect."
Linus Torvalds

"Like almost everyone who uses e-mail, I receive a ton of spam every day. Much of it offers to help me get out of debt or get rich quick. It would be funny if it weren't so irritating. "
Bill Gates
vs.
"Most days I wake up thinking I'm the luckiest bastard alive. "
Linus Torvalds

http://www.junauza.com/2008/07/bill-gates-vs-linus-torvalds-who-has.html

The point is:   [size=13pt]Stop butting in with bitchy little comments[/size] or else, you know what you are going to get - a verbal ass whipping!

@Blacksta, technically, there is absolutely no difference. I mean you can basically create your own Solution file or  project file using Notepad and still be able to open the file in VS express or VS Professional, or even team. Your assemblies will compile as they ought to, even if put together in Notepad., and you can open the same VS project files in Dreamweaver or mono IDE. So, VS does not really restrict you in anyway considering there are other .NET IDE’s that you can use out there for your .NET coding work. Mono’s IDE, which happens to be open source is a good one.

Sure, there may be some legal ramifications when using Express for commercial work, but as I already mentioned, Microsoft itself already provides developers and students ways of getting their tools for free. For instance, I won my first Visual studio professional after attending a couple of the msdn webcasts back in 2006 and since then I have found there are ways of getting the software for free. As I mentioned, there is dreamspark and then bizspark. You basically have full access to software, including server software with keys which you can use in developing what you need. Some companies give you an MSDN subscription account which in turn gives you full access to most all of Microsoft’s software packages.

So, there are tools out there. You just need to search and find them and spending money on anytool does not make it better than the tools you get legitimately, for free.

the internet is a wonderful place. . .

any small time entrepreneur/programmer one can come and make mouth that they are ' rich, ambitious, brilliant, perfectionists '

abeg post links to your billion dollar software company before you start trying to pass yourself off as something more than a thread hijacking noisemaker who is pissed off because he paid big money for licensed software in a time when the economy is shrinking

weren't you looking for cheap nigerian based programming labour that you could rip off without any worries of legal repercussions the other day?


who dash you mouth?

I love nairaland, because simple questions end up with complex arguments that will end up confusing rather than convincing the poster who was in the dark before posting.

   I love Seun too for allowing people to make their stupidity public by putting "hot argument" based post on the front page.

   I love some posters because they can carry their arguments and personal "beef" with a fellow nairalander on "political section" to "programming section" to make them know they are still hotter than fire.

  That you disagree with people on political opinions or other posts does not mean that you will never agree on anything. A lot of people do that and end up arguing blindly because they just want to drive home a point against a fellow nairalander who seems to win them in a political section.

Lets bear in mind that some people look up to posts on nairaland to make critical decisions (i pity such people though) 

About professionalism, that people don't shout about their achievements doesn't make them quacks as suppose by some. Besides, what is the bench mark for professionalism when summarily, different arguments on nairaland have discredited years of experience, certifications, portfolio.

We have MCPDs, SCJPs. OCPs on nairaland who are into full time professional development that will rather post as any other nairalander and will never point at that for any reason.

Lets make constructive suggestions to help newbies out. I love asp.net forum because the original poster can mark somebody's post as the answer so that others can know that other posts are kind of irrelevant. 

  Nigeria ! ,   FUNNY People, FUNNY Nation.

- My Opinion

A GOOD HAMMER DOESN't Make a GOOG CARPENTER

HOPE U got that

quadrillio:

A GOOD HAMMER DOESN't Make a GOO[b]G[/b] CARPENTER
                                                                              /\
HOPE U got that

                                                                             [img]http://thumbnails15./3475/b5045934743948.gif[/img]



               

[img]http://thumbnails18./3471/2d7b8d34701519.gif[/img]

Everybody and their dog know Visual Studio Express Editions is free for any and all uses, and free forever. Only someone as smart and as accomplished in the industry like linxon is still struggling to come to terms with that, 

The reference linxon made to http://www.microsoft.com/info/cpyright.mspx does not refer to Visual Studio Express Editions at all. It refers to the material on all Microsoft-owned web sites (text, images, pictures, and other digital resources which are not specifically covered by any other software license). You will notice from the URL that its a general copyright statement and does not refer to any particular Microsoft product.

DESCRIPTION OF SERVICES.
Through its network of Web properties, Microsoft provides you with access to a variety of resources, including developer tools, download areas, communication forums and product information (collectively "Services". The Services, including any updates, enhancements, new features, and/or the addition of any new Web properties, are subject to the TOU.

To break it down for you linxon, what Mr Gates is saying is that you can't take a picture or a paragraph off a Microsoft web-site and try to sell it, or try to make some other commercial gain from it. You can save the picture or the paragraph on your machine and use it personally, though.

The real license terms for Visual Studio Express Editions is found here http://www.microsoft.com/express/support/faq/. If you pay close attention you will notice that No. 7 cannot possibly be misunderstood,

7. Can I use Express Editions for commercial use?

Yes, there are no licensing restrictions for applications built using Visual Studio Express Editions.

Have a nice day!

@princejay
Thanks for that information. I tried looking for it yesterday but time never permitted me. At least that is a pointer to the fact that .net is a free technology.

- My Opinion

All dis javeline wey una dey yan so, make una tell me how to write a soft ware na him be my concern. make una keep the language but give me the procedure.

To me java programming simple than Microsoft .net programming.even fortran is harder
Any body that knows java,oracle and microsoft.net should contact me on +2348066258416 i want to know more about them.[color=#000099]

princejay:

Everybody and their dog know Visual Studio Express Editions is free for any and all uses, and free forever. Only someone as smart and as accomplished in the industry like linxon is still struggling to come to terms with that, 

The reference linxon made to http://www.microsoft.com/info/cpyright.mspx does not refer to Visual Studio Express Editions at all. It refers to the material on all Microsoft-owned web sites (text, images, pictures, and other digital resources which are not specifically covered by any other software license). You will notice from the URL that its a general copyright statement and does not refer to any particular Microsoft product.

To break it down for you linxon, what Mr Gates is saying is that you can't take a picture or a paragraph off a Microsoft web-site and try to sell it, or try to make some other commercial gain from it. You can save the picture or the paragraph on your machine and use it personally, though.

The real license terms for Visual Studio Express Editions is found here http://www.microsoft.com/express/support/faq/. If you pay close attention you will notice that No. 7 cannot possibly be misunderstood,

Have a nice day!

@princejay I have a dog and it dosen't know nothing about VS  @Linxon had a point if you read paragraph 8 it says:

# How are Express Editions different from the rest of the Visual Studio and SQL Server Editions?

Express Edition products are designed for hobbyists, students, and novice developers. As such, they lack the full breadth of features found in higher-end Visual Studio and SQL Server Editions. They are designed specifically for scenarios common to the hobbyist, student, and novice developer. Each Express Edition includes targeted documentation that will help the beginning programmer quickly learn the concepts required to build more advanced applications and so on

Bill Gates is not stupid he wants you to learn then you will have to buy the full professional edition.

i agree with dammy all programming are the same but depend on individual.to me vb is even harder thanms.net

Very interesting, A simple question raising a lot of dust.
We've had a similar argument debate a few years before.
Check this topic and help yourself
make the right decision.

@nolongthing

nolongTing:


Bill Gates is not stupid he wants you to learn then you will have to buy the full professional edition.

I don't quite agree ,

MS keeps visual Studio commercial so that tool development would still be competitive and profitable to tool developers like Inprise Borland.
The variety of tools available for java is one of the advantages of that environment over .NET, if companies like Borland, infragistics etc. can't make money (because MS gives the very good VS for free) then no one develops tools at all for the platform other than MS(this is not good).


yeah the full version is definitely better than the express, but not in terms of pure code development.
even the professional versions have enterprise, team etc.

On programming ease, I think java is simpler than C# or even VB.NET (because of the CLS) ,

Ghenghis:

@nolongthing
I don't quite agree ,

MS keeps visual Studio commercial so that tool development would still be competitive and profitable to tool developers like Inprise Borland.
The variety of tools available for java is one of the advantages of that environment over .NET, if companies like Borland, infragistics etc. can't make money (because MS gives the very good VS for free) then no one develops tools at all for the platform other than MS(this is not good).

Well, we can agree to disagree on some things, you could also say that VS is free to compete with Eclipse too.  Borland has sold Delphi to CodeGear, so I agree that VS for free buried Borland, but the fact remains that Microsoft is making a fortune from selling VS and Eclipse is 100% Free, I use it to develop my PHP all the time.

Ghenghis:

On programming ease, I think java is simpler than C# or even VB.NET (because of the CLS) ,

I agree with that, C# to me is a more powerful version of Java, VB.NET I have never used it so I can't comment on that one.

pls any prorammer here

decworld:

pls any prorammer here

Yes I am listening

IG:

Very interesting, A simple question raising a lot of dust.
We've had a similar argument debate a few years before.
Check this topic and help yourself
make the right decision.

I cannot believe it! The same topic and the same arguments! There must be something in the Nigerian DNA that causes this. If only we can channel all of this energy into producing something it would be good.

ok i want to know more about programming or any textbook that is good 4 it.

decworld.:

ok i want to know more about programming or any textbook that is good 4 it.

Na wa oh! that is a tall order.  Well in my opinion Java is the best First language for you to learn now, when you have mastered it you can then choose any other language you like.  So what am I saying? Focus on being a good programmer then take it from there. 

For the books check out this post:--
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-263127.0.html

For some tutorials here on NairaLand:--

https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-241113.0.html

@nolongting
when it comes to people exercising their right to choose , things are never settled.

I can assure you that such arguments are not only done in Nigeria,
There are benefits in comparing the languages , look at improvements made to java due to comparisons with c#.

Though I've used C# professionally, Java is my language of choice but note that i haven't disagreed with you regarding the power of C#.


The point is a good developer might argue about his/her favorite language, but curiosity should move him to check other ones(this is the spirit of learning and advancement).

for beginners i usually just tell them to pick any language :javascript, php,python, C,java etc. Once they've learned the first language they can settle on a favorite and join the language wars there's really a rich history behind it all http://oreilly.com/news/graphics/prog_lang_poster.pdf.

Quite interesting

@ fellybabe

Quite interesting eh? I was about wondering if a female in here would say something . BTW, are you a programmer too? I'm yet to see a female programmer .

After going thru all the posts, i think the main argument wasn't [b]exactly [/b]an answer to the post but a war of some sorts as to:

1. Who's used more programming languages than others

2. Who knows more about programming languages than others

3. And more,

Personally, am not a programmer nor a software developer, i wonder if there's a difference btw the two. I also do quite agree with Ghenghis, he said everything i wanted to say. I actually LOVE programming and would like to learn (really learn). I do have something to say though,

1. When it comes to which is better btw C# and Java, from what i heard from a friend who i respect very well when it comes to programming, its almost the same thing. If you can use one, then you can use the other. NolongTing actually said what i've always thought, Java is the first language to learn.

2. As for which is simpler, i don't really think any one of them is hard.

That goes on to one more thing i learned, which i think every programmer, developer et al aspiring ones should put in mind,

[center]Every complex solution is a combination of simple steps[/center]

If one can follow that simple rule, then no language will be difficult.

Good information on the requisites and perhaps pre-requisites on how to be a programmer would be highly appreciated.

Thanks,

before you can say, you need to understant a little bit of history in programming.
programming lang, strating with fortran was developed to enable the computer to be used as a reusable calculator. this makes sence since you dont have to keep swithing the computer everytime to do the same job. in those days , a lot of lang were developed, each with is distint adv and disavantages. basic became a very popular lang then because it is simple to learn and prog. many proffesional programmers normally encounter problems programming long and structured programs. thus after two two or three initial lang., the c lang was developed . it is i true structured lang and thus became very popular among proffessional programmers. most operating systems are still written in c lang. in the late 70s and earlly 80s, the object oriented method of programming became the defacto. in other to still enjoy the power of c, c# was developed. it is a c progarmming lang with object oriented prog. about the early 90s, microsoft develop vb to be the graphical users interface verison of basic lang. thus continued with the popularity of basic. java was then developed i the early 90s to be a net version of c#. thus write once , use anywhere gave it taht popuparity it enjoys. vb, then stands to the challange and develope vb.net, the net version of vb. to know which is  easier depends on your knowlege of the parent lang

There's a question about the power of programming (regardless of the language used) i've been wanting to know the answer. Now this is time for all of you that has been talking to prove yourselves  . Anyway, let me know if anyone of you wants to know the question,

Gracias, Merci, Por Favor

@lekside
Were you talking to me?

I've met very few female programmers, though not Nigerian.
Many female DBAs and web developers though ,

Dr. Lorenz:

There's a question about the power of programming (regardless of the language used) I've been wanting to know the answer. Now this is time for all of you that has been talking to prove yourselves  . Anyway, let me know if anyone of you wants to know the question,

now I'm curious , so lets play along ,

What's the question

pls can any body tell me any good programming textbook on java, .net,visual basic,fortran.i need it urgently.pls call 08066258416 or mail  me   decworld4sure2008@yahoo.com  THANKS AND GOD BLESS [color=#000099][/color][i][/i][b][/b][s][/s][img][/img]