One of the things that I really strongly believe in is that we need to have more girls interested in math, science, and engineering. We’ve got half the population that is way underrepresented in those fields and that means that we’ve got a whole bunch of talent…not being encouraged the way they need to.”

-- President Barack Obama, February 2013

The development of world-class talent in science, technology, engineering, and mathematics (STEM) is critical to America’s global leadership. The Obama administration understands that fostering an open and diverse scientific community that draws from an array of unique experiences and viewpoints is a necessary step to realizing this goal.

Supporting women STEM students and researchers is not only an essential part of America’s strategy to out-innovate, out-educate, and out-build the rest of the world; it is also important to women themselves. Women in STEM jobs earn 33 percent more than those in non-STEM occupations and experience a smaller wage gap relative to men. And STEM careers offer women the opportunity to engage in some of the most exciting realms of discovery and technological innovation. Increasing opportunities for women in these fields is an important step towards realizing greater economic success and equality for women across the board.

The Office of Science and Technology Policy, in collaboration with the White House Council on Women and Girls, is dedicated to increasing the participation of women and girls — as well as other underrepresented groups — in the fields of science, technology, engineering, and mathematics by increasing the engagement of girls with STEM subjects in formal and informal environments, encouraging mentoring to support women throughout their academic and professional experiences, and supporting efforts to retain women in the STEM workforce.

https://www.whitehouse.gov/administration/eop/ostp/women

We also have WISE ... a campaign to promote women in STEM with this goal... Our mission is to get 1 million more women in the UK STEM workforce. https://www.wisecampaign.org.uk/

Now the reason for this thread:

Must more ladies be enrolled into STEM courses? Must there be a gender based quota as regards the enrollment into STEM courses?

I am not against encouraging more ladies to join STEM courses; I am against making people feel STEM courses are more important than non - STEM courses because that is the reason behind pushing more ladies into STEM irrespective of their personal interest. That is why we also see a number of ladies drop out of them after school.

Yes, a person in STEM night earn more than a non-STEM however, money alone does not determine the importance of a profession.

If a lady is not in an environment that discriminates against women in STEM courses, then she should be guided to choose a profession based on her strengths and personality. That why, the society can benefit maximally from them.

You got it wrong. The essence of encouraging women to be in STEM courses is to disabuse their minds about its gender stereotype.

In every university, check percentage of ladies in Engineering and science compared to administration and social sciences.

There were only 5 girls in my department in the university, 2 in civil engineering for my set, mechanical had only one ati bebe lo..

Supporting women STEM students and researchers is not only an essential part of America’s strategy to out-innovate, out-educate, and out-build the rest of the world; it is also important to women themselves.

Why do women need to be supported at all? In a society that believes so much in gender equality, why the extra push

I am not against encouraging more ladies to join STEM courses; I am against making people feel STEM courses are more important than non - STEM courses because that is the reason behind pushing more ladies into STEM irrespective of their personal interest. That is why we also see a number of ladies drop out of them after school.

Yes, a person in STEM night earn more than a non-STEM however, money alone does not determine the importance of a profession.

If a lady is not in an environment that discriminates against women in STEM courses, then she should be guided to choose a profession based on her strengths and personality . That way, the society can benefit maximally from them.

Ok, well said.
I rest my case.

bellong:
You got it wrong. The essence of encouraging women to be in STEM courses is to disabuse their minds about its gender stereotype.

In every university, check percentage of ladies in Engineering and science compared to administration and social sciences.

There were only 5 girls in my department in the university, 2 in civil engineering for my set, mechanical had only one ati bebe lo..

Exactly!
Thank you

thanks for this thread.you are right,and theirs alot more to it too.am still in highschool but will pursue chemical engineering after

5minsmadness:

Why do women need to be supported at all? In a society that believes so much in gender equality, why the extra push

The fact the 'society' believes so much in gender equality does not mean everybody believes in gender equality just how the fact Lagos is projected as a developed state doesnot mean there are not a lot of shanties in Lagos.

I will even say there are more people who don't believe in gender equality than people who do.

doublex:
thanks for this thread.you are right,and theirs alot more to it too.am still in highschool but will pursue chemical engineering after

You are welcome

I am glad you know what you want to be in future

bellong:
You got it wrong. The essence of encouraging women to be in STEM courses is to disabuse their minds about its gender stereotype.

In every university, check percentage of ladies in Engineering and science compared to administration and social sciences.

There were only 5 girls in my department in the university, 2 in civil engineering for my set, mechanical had only one ati bebe lo..

@Bold:

Could it be that they are more interested in social science courses and that's where their strengths lie?

I would say all students are enlightened on STEM courses and thereafter, let them choose what they want themselves... that's why we take all classes in Jnr Secondary and our G & C teachers put us through during placement into Senior School.

I am sure those 5 girls would probably do the society better in future than 100 girls coerced into Engineering.

bukatyne:

I am not against encouraging more ladies to join STEM courses; I am against making people feel STEM courses are more important than non - STEM courses because that is the reason behind pushing more ladies into STEM irrespective of their personal interest. That is why we also see a number of ladies drop out of them after school.

Yes, a person in STEM night earn more than a non-STEM however, money alone does not determine the importance of a profession.

If a lady is not in an environment that discriminates against women in STEM courses, then she should be guided to choose a profession based on her strengths and personality. That why, the society can benefit maximally from them.

U have said it all. The bold doesn't apply to women alone, but all humans...

johnson232:

U have said it all. The bold doesn't apply to women alone, but all humans...

Very True

bellong:
You got it wrong. The essence of encouraging women to be in STEM courses is to disabuse their minds about its gender stereotype.

In every university, check percentage of ladies in Engineering and science compared to administration and social sciences.

There were only 5 girls in my department in the university, 2 in civil engineering for my set, mechanical had only one ati bebe lo..

I think we all should learn to appreciate others strength. We all have our strengths and weaknesses. If I may ask, why did u go for engineering? Why didn't u go for architecture? Or medicine? I'm pretty sure u choose that particular course probably because u have weighed your strengths and weaknesses, and u were convinced u would be able to sail through.

Same should apply to others, everyone should have that inalienable latitude to choose his or her own future. I even see this whole idea as an avenue to demean other profession. Making one to feel bad about his choice of course on account of some lame ideas isn't too good.

Often times we have seen cases whereby parents coerce their children to study courses against their wish, but I can always tell u the end result is always rueful.

bukatyne:

I am not against encouraging more ladies to join STEM courses; I am against making people feel STEM courses are more important than non - STEM courses because that is the reason behind pushing more ladies into STEM irrespective of their personal interest. That is why we also see a number of ladies drop out of them after school.

Yes, a person in STEM night earn more than a non-STEM however, money alone does not determine the importance of a profession.

If a lady is not in an environment that discriminates against women in STEM courses, then she should be guided to choose a profession based on her strengths and personality. That why, the society can benefit maximally from them.

Some professions are more useful to society than others. Any nation that wants to grow must priotize STEM courses. All the countries that are superpowers are because they are the most scientifically advanced countries and they make SCIENTIFIC innovations. E.g Japan, China, US, Russia, germany etc and not Greece that is the birthplace of Philosophy History and literature

What benefit does having millions of people with PhD in Sociology, Philosophy, Human resources, Romance languages to the society?

many women always flee from Sciences and see it as a Man's field because of the rigors involved with sciences. if women who are increasingly getting more opportunities in education are running away from the major builder of the society i.e STEM courses then the country would have a huge problem in the future

o.p some jobs are for guys only. Sorry!

bukatyne:
Must more ladies be enrolled into STEM courses? Must there be a gender based quota as regards the enrollment into STEM courses?

Not really, but the prevailing ideological positions will try and force it to happen. Fortunately or unfortunatley, biology will prevail; simply put, womens strengths don't play to them achieving equal success with men in STEM fields. In this sense men are simply more gifted/better suited.

Sex based quotas cannot change that. Sweden the most poitically correct and feminist led nation in the world has relatively no more engineers than say a typical patriarchial nation like India. It's not mainly "gender" bias or stereotyping or even "old boys clubism" it's preference.

Even with more more women enrolling and graduating, with unfair incentives and policies designed to ensure women take up STEM courses, men still rule STEM fields. Things may change slightly due to the pressure, but women themselves don't - for the most part - want it.

http://www.brunel.ac.uk/courses/pg/funding/scholarships-bursaries - note the female only engineering bursary
http://www.uis.unesco.org/_LAYOUTS/UNESCO/women-in-science/index.html#overview!lang=en

Men were created to build, create and civilise. End of !


TV

raumdeuter:


Some professions are more useful to society than others. Any nation that wants to grow must priotize STEM courses. All the countries that are superpowers are because they are the most scientifically advanced countries and they make SCIENTIFIC innovations. E.g Japan, China, US, Russia, germany etc and not Greece that is the birthplace of Philosophy History and literature

What benefit does having millions of people with PhD in Sociology, Philosophy, Human resources, Romance languages to the society?

many women always flee from Sciences and see it as a Man's field because of the rigors involved with sciences. if women who are increasingly getting more opportunities in education are running away from the major builder of the society i.e STEM courses then the country would have a huge problem in the future

Maybe they are also fleeing because they are NOT interested in it?

At the end, no one course is more important than the other...

The Engineer still needs the Accountant, HR personnel, Teacher etc. etc. to function properly.

TV01:

Not really, but the prevailing ideological positions will try and force it to happen. Fortunately or unfortunatley, biology will prevail; simply put, womens strengths don't play to them achieving equal success with men in STEM fields. In this sense men are simply more gifted/better suited.

Sex based quotas cannot change that. Sweden the most poitically correct and feminist led nation in the world has relatively no more engineers than say a typical patriarchial nation like India. It's not mainly "gender" bias or stereotyping or even "old boys clubism" it's preference.

Even with more more women enrolling and graduating, with unfair incentives and policies designed to ensure women take up STEM courses, men still rule STEM fields. Things may change slightly due to the pressure, but women themselves don't - for the most part - want it.

http://www.brunel.ac.uk/courses/pg/funding/scholarships-bursaries - note the female only engineering bursary
http://www.uis.unesco.org/_LAYOUTS/UNESCO/women-in-science/index.html#overview!lang=en

Men were created to build, create and civilise. End of !


TV

I do not know if men are more 'suited' to STEM; this thread is saying every student should be guided to pick what best suits them.... Incentives are not necessary to put women in STEM... their passion should be enough incentive to.

If men were created to build, create and civilize, then they have made a woeful job of it.

AND THAT DISCUSSION IS OUTSIDE THE SCOPE OF THIS THREAD.

Captainswag225:
o.p some jobs are for guys only. Sorry!

Did you read the OP?

bukatyne:


Maybe they are also fleeing because they are NOT interested in it?

At the end, no one course is more important than the other...

The Engineer still needs the Accountant, HR personnel, Teacher etc. etc. to function properly.

Sorry some courses are more important than others

You cant say a Medical Doctor or Engineer isnt more important than someone who studied philosophy or Romance Languages in serious economies

That is why advanced countries even places like US, try to make conscious effort from the level of govt to promote STEM courses because from their experience, these are the stuff that build the society not writing philosoph, Gender studies or Latin

Who would solve the next societal problem, who would make cars that wont depend on organic fuel, who would make the fastest computer, who would discover the cure to cancer, who would make the best weapon, who would solve wild fires, Who would invent the building without concrete. Thats all on science

bukatyne:

Did you read the OP?

yep., science and maths are for guys only.

raumdeuter:


Sorry some courses are more important than others

You cant say a Medical Doctor or Engineer isnt more important than someone who studied philosophy or Romance Languages in serious economies

That is why advanced countries even places like US, try to make conscious effort from the level of govt to promote STEM courses because from their experience, these are the stuff that build the society not writing philosoph, Gender studies or Latin

Who would solve the next societal problem, who would make cars that wont depend on organic fuel, who would make the fastest computer, who would discover the cure to cancer, who would make the best weapon, who would solve wild fires, Who would invent the building without concrete. Thats all on science

Ok, let's assume that STEM courses are more important...

Will it not be better to let people go to STEM courses as a result of genuine passion and not filling in a quota?

Is it just me or can someone else see that this thread seeks to trivialise STEM courses by equating their importance with non-STEM courses because women flood the useless courses in universities. Imagine a "graduate" positing that Gender Studies and Medicine are of equal importance. This nairaland eh.

bukatyne:
I do not know if men are more 'suited' to STEM; this thread is saying every student should be guided to pick what best suits them.... Incentives are not necessary to put women in STEM... their passion should be enough incentive to.

The reason that women are being incentivised is that they don't "naturally" tend to choose STEM subjects in the same relative numbers as men. Ideologically that doesn't sit well with some people and they'd like to see that change.

Equal opportunity is all that is called for, but that won't give the desired ideological outcome! And the reason for the "unbalance" is because men are better suited - hence the incentivisation to "gender balance" things - sometmimes you need a bigger picture !

bukatyne:
Must more ladies be enrolled into STEM courses? Must there be a gender based quota as regards the enrollment into STEM courses?

Therefore, as above; no, as it won't really work; no, as they don't really want to.

bukatyne:
If men were created to build, create and civilize, then they have made a woeful job of it.

That's a value judgement you are free to make - I wasn't grading them, just proclaiming their purpose


TV

TV01:

The reason that women are being incentivised is that they don't "naturally" tend to choose STEM subjects in the same relative numbers as men. Ideologically that doesn't sit well with some people and they'd like to see that change.

Equal opportunity is all that is called for, but that won't give the desired ideological outcome! And the reason for the "unbalance" is because men are better suited - hence the incentivisation to "gender balance" things - sometmimes you need a bigger picture !

Therefore, as above; no, as it won't really work; no, as they don't really want to.


That's a value judgement you are free to make - I wasn't grading them, just proclaiming their purpose

TV

I believe very much in equal opportunities and leaving people to make their choices.

If after enlightenment and guidance men are more than women in STEM, so be it

Timbuktou:
Is it just me or can someone else see that this thread seeks to trivialise STEM courses by equating their importance with non-STEM courses because women flood the useless courses in universities. Imagine a "graduate" positing that Gender Studies and Medicine are of equal importance. This nairaland eh.

It is just you

If about 5 posters have posted before you addressing the OP without hassles, it should be clear it is you.

bukatyne:


I believe very much in equal opportunities and leaving people to make their choices.

If after enlightenment and guidance men are more than women in STEM, so be it

I am all for equality and choice. Give everybody equal opportunity to do all courses at Uni. If after that, one gender decides to dorminate a sector. Then it's fine. What we don't want is one gender being discouraged from doing a particular course.

bukatyne:
Ok, let's assume that STEM courses are more important...

Will it not be better to let people go to STEM courses as a result of genuine passion and not filling in a quota?

If govt dont make genuine efforts to promote STEM courses for all, then at a point there wont be enough Scientists the economy would suffer and America would have to depend on foreign inventions.

In my opinion, I believe if you put your mind to it you would do it especially academics. If STEM were the only courses available would women or people stop going to University?

STEM courses are harder and naturally most human beings would like to go for easier things. Show some people especially women some Maths equation, they wont even bother to look at it, They would just say i dont like maths. Show them Chemical equations they would say i cant understand Chemistry

For example I know many people who in Nigeria claimed they dont have a passion for sciences, they cant learn chemistry, or physics. when they get to US and they see thats the only thing that pays I have seen many of them graduate Pharmacy Nursing etc. So where did the passion suddenly come from?

Thats what the govt is trying to do. make people, coerce people to NOT go for the easy way out. Collect Thousands in Student loans to go study Gender studies

Like I always tell my wife, Any child of mine who wants to study any yeye Romance languages or Philosophy would have to pay for it himself

bukatyne:
I believe very much in equal opportunities and leaving people to make their choices.

Absolutely agree regards equal opportunities - there are more women in medical school in Britain than men. Nobody is looking to gender balance things or incentivice men to take up medicine - even though the imbalace comes at cost, as fully 60%of female Dr's opt for p/t work or leave the profession within 10 years, leaving a problematic shortfall in healthcare delivery.

bukatyne:
If after enlightenment and guidance men are more than women in STEM, so be it

Dat's how it be !


TV

bukatyne:


I believe very much in equal opportunities and leaving people to make their choices.

If after enlightenment and guidance men are more than women in STEM, so be it

No its not enough because this is a country that looks to develop and keep pace with the world

before when men were 80% of workforce even if 40% of them go to STEM thats still enough scientist to run the economy

But nowadays when women are 50% or even more of the workforce and less than 5% of this 50% are going into things that develop the economy

It has grave concern for the nation and its even a National security issue which is why Executive and legislative arm of serious countries take it serious

raumdeuter:


If govt dont make genuine efforts to promote STEM courses for all, then at a point there wont be enough Scientists the economy would suffer and America would have to depend on foreign inventions.

I honestly doubt that . One engineer with passion is better than 10 engineers without. People (Male and female would always go for STEM courses).

I am looking at it from this angle: University A has the capacity to admit 500 STEM students for 2015/2016 session. Would it not be better if there are 480 interested men and 20 interested women admitted than 300 men with 200 women (out of which only 20 is interested) admitted leaving 180 men who had interest? In Nigeria especially, students lose fire and passion for their dream courses the longer they stay at home.

raumdeuter:
In my opinion, I believe if you put your mind to it you would do it especially academics. If STEM were the only courses available would women or people stop going to University?

True; however, I can do well in a course WITHOUT having passion for it and drop it like fire immediately I am through with school

raumdeuter:
STEM courses are harder and naturally most human beings would like to go for easier things. Show some people especially women some Maths equation, they wont even bother to look at it, They would just say i dont like maths. Show them Chemical equations they would say i cant understand Chemistry

Very true

raumdeuter:
For example I know many people who in Nigeria claimed they dont have a passion for sciences, they cant learn chemistry, or physics. when they get to US and they see thats the only thing that pays I have seen many of them graduate Pharmacy Nursing etc. So where did the passion suddenly come from?

Umemployment

raumdeuter:
Thats what the govt is trying to do. make people, coerce people to NOT go for the easy way out. Collect Thousands in Student loans to go study Gender studies

Ok o

raumdeuter:
Like I always tell my wife, Any child of mine who wants to study any yeye Romance languages or Philosophy would have to pay for it himself

Nigerian father himself

Wouldn't you like to have a Wole Soyinka?

[img]https://img.washingtonpost.com/wp-apps/imrs.php?src=https://img.washingtonpost.com/news/rampage/wp-content/uploads/sites/27/2015/01/Screen-Shot-2015-01-27-at-9.35.32-AM-e1422370349670.png&w=1484[/img]

https://img.washingtonpost.com/wp-apps/imrs.php?src=https://img.washingtonpost.com/news/rampage/wp-content/uploads/sites/27/2015/01/Screen-Shot-2015-01-27-at-9.35.32-AM-e1422370349670.png&w=1484

[img]https://img.washingtonpost.com/news/rampage/wp-content/uploads/sites/27/2015/01/Screen-Shot-2015-01-27-at-9.35.32-AM-e1422370349670.png&w=1484[/img]

bukatyne:


It is just you

If about 5 posters have posted before you addressing the OP without hassles, it should be clear it is you.

No shame in it just being me. You are a feminist after all. Every comment of yours should be analysed from all angles. We can't be taking chances with you and your ilk, after all, you did say STEM courses aren't more important than Gender Studies. It does say a lot about your value system on a lot of levels.