MizJanet:



Loooooolssss , Abraham pre - exist Abel .

That means Abraham came down from heaven like bible Jesus . Shey ?

You are actually telling me that Jesus Lied , when he said he is the only one that has come down from heaven _ john 3:13

Jesus : " no man has ever been to heaven except the one [ Jesus] who came from heaven , the son of man "

Ebony7: Stop lying , even abraham pre - exist and come down from heaven.

Ebony7:


Truthfully, there's no Biblical record pinpointing that. So, I can't say a "yes/no"!
Conversely, if u had asked me, "is it possible for Abraham to preexist Abel?"
I'll say yes, it's possible!

How and why?There indeed is a precedence - d Jesus~John/Abraham scenario (Jn 1v 15, Jn 8v 56-58).

Ebony7:

Pheww! Now I get it! Seems u misconstrued "physical preexistence" for "spiritual preexistence"!
The "preexistence" the scripture was referring to was [bspiritual, not in the physical sense. [/b] Every T, D and H knows dt John was physically older.

MizJanet:


Abel exist before Abraham ? Yes Or No

Ebony7:



Truthfully, there's no Biblical record pinpointing that. So, I can't say a "yes/no"!
Conversely, if u had asked me, "is it possible" for Abraham to preexist Abel?"
I'll say yes, it's possible!
How and why? There indeed is a precedence - d Jesus~John/Abraham scenario (Jn 1v 15, Jn 8v 56-58).
Thanks.

MizJanet:


Heresy ! Heresy
This is exactly what happen when you are teaching lies - assumptions , twisting , false reasoning e. T.c

Heresies on this thread :

A) you first said : Abraham bossom is a place beneath the earth ,

after you were caught red handed:

You said : Abraham bossom mean Abraham's arm , or side .

B ) to make it fix in with the direct and logical question : how can Abel go to the bossom of a man born many years later ?

You replied twistin some verses only to confess later that both agree that jesus is older spiritully . therefore void ur usage of dat verse

Now @ bold, u cant say yes/no , but yet you will twist som verse to say yes .

Ebony7:
!
Hahahahahahahaha.
.......... d underlined though.
There's nothing heretic in what I said, which, for d avoidance of doubt, I've requoted.
Let me re-explain.
It's not recorded that Abraham spiritually preceded Abel. But "is it possible?" seems 2 be getting in d way here.
"Is it possible? " in this context is" does God Almighty have the Power/capability to do it?".
This is what I meant, that's why I asserted that "if He can do it for one, Jesus in ds case, He can jolly well do it for whosoever He wills", Psm 135v6, Lk1v37.
----------------------------------
Do you believe Jesus Christ existed before John and Abraham?

Ebony7:
!




Hahahahahahahaha.
.......... d underlined though.
There's nothing heretic in what I said, which, for d avoidance of doubt, I've requoted.
Let me re-explain.
It's not recorded that Abraham spiritually preceded Abel. But "is it possible?" seems 2 be getting in d way here.
"Is it possible? " in this context is" does God Almighty have the Power/capability to do it?".
This is what I meant, that's why I asserted that "if He can do it for one, Jesus in ds case, He can jolly well do it for whosoever He wills", Psm 135v6, Lk1v37.
----------------------------------
Do you believe Jesus Christ existed before John and Abraham?

Ebony7:

I've said it before, d only recorded details of preexistence is that of Jesus ~ John/Abraham.

That of Abraham~Abel? It's not written that Abraham spiritually preexist Abel! Physically, Abel was d forerunner!

john and Abraham also came down from heaven ?

Moreover, I still maintain that Abraham's bosom is a location BENEATH THE EARTH! (2 Sam 28v15).
You only considered d "breast/chest" definition of bosom, viz a viz the [b]"location/vicinity/comfort zone" definition [Lk 16v19~26]. I outlined 4 different definitions in an earlier post and u disproved none of them-esp the 3rd.
Maybe d dictionary is wrong then-just saying.
And if I may ask, do you believe in d preexistence "story" of Jesus ~John/Abraham?

Mr. Heresy you said The greek word rendered bossom means " side" , abrahams side NOT Location beneath the earth.

That means hagar go to a location beneath the earth ? Gen 16:5

MizJanet:


" NO MAN has ever been to heaven" - john 3:13

MizJanet:


stop trying to make sense out of non - sense , you re sounding silly .

You mean they make heaven without Jesus dying for their sins ? Have you forgotten that you guys said all have inherit sin and only the death of Jesus can cleanse it ?

You mean they were saved before Jesus died for them ? So Jesus death is useless since fear of God is only what is needed ?

Ebony7:
!




Hahahahahahahaha.
.......... d underlined though.
There's nothing heretic in what I said, which, for d avoidance of doubt, I've requoted.
Let me re-explain.
It's not recorded that Abraham spiritually preceded Abel. [/u]But "is it possible?" seems 2 be getting in d way here.
"Is it possible? " in this context is" does God Almighty have the [u]Power/capability to do it?".
This is what I meant, that's why I asserted that "if He can do it for one, Jesus in ds case, He can jolly well do it for whosoever He wills", Psm 135v6, Lk1v37.
----------------------------------
Do you believe Jesus Christ existed before John and Abraham?

MizJanet:

Keep fighting with jesus and your bible .
Jesus : " Only the son of man has came down from heaven " John 3:13

Ebony7 : " thats a lie , people like Abraham also pre - exists spiritually before they physically came as human "

MizJanet:

john and Abraham also came down from heaven ?


Mr. Heresy you said The greek word rendered bossom means " side" , abrahams side NOT Location beneath the earth.

That means hagar go to a location beneath the earth ? Gen 16:5

Living4christ:


Mind you, Jesus was saying, "No man has ever ascended to heaven [s]and come back to declare them the word of God, [/s] (No man on earth and still alive), because the bible said that God took methuselah, was abraham before methuselah.

Living4christ:


The purpose of his death was to make us
holy to inherit God's kingdom, so a man with the fear of God was considered worthy then (those days), because the bible said that "by the fear of God man depart from evil- Proverbs 16:6."

Ebony7:




It seems u get a kick from misquoting me. Again for the avoidance of doubt, I've requoted myself.
I didn't say what u quoted! I only reaffirmed that Jesus Christ was/is the only recorded being with record of preexistence. As for Abraham, there's no Biblical record of him spiritually existing before Abel. What I'm saying is, God can do whatever pleases Him!
Thanks.

Ebony7:

Re: "Abraham's Bosom"
http://biblehub.com/greek/2859.htm

1. the front of the body between the
arms hence ἀνακεῖσθαι ἐν τῷ κόλπῳ
τίνος, of the one who so reclines at
table that his head covers the bosom
as it were, the chest, of the one next
him (cf. B. D. under the word ), John
13:23 . Hence the [size=25]figurative
Expressions, [/size] ἐν τοῖς κόλποις (on the
Plural, which occurs as early as
Homer, Iliad 9, 570, cf. Winers
Grammar, § 27, 3; (Buttmann, 24
(21))) τοῦ Ἀβραάμ εἶναι, to obtain the
seat next to Abraham, i. e. to be
partaker of the same blessedness as
Abraham in paradise, Luke 16:23 ;
ἀποφέρεσθαι ... Εἰς τόν κόλπον
Ἀβραάμ, be borne away to the
enjoyment of the same felicity with
Abraham, Luke 16:22 (οὕτω γάρ
παθόντας — according to another

Jozzy4:


Oga , any idea that doesnt have a biblical record is an error .


Haba! God didnt do such... No wonder she called u heresy master , Jesus makes it clear that he is the only person that come from heaven ( John 3:13 )

Jozzy4:


Oga , any idea that doesnt have a biblical record is an error


Haba! God didnt do such... No wonder she called u heresy master , Jesus makes it clear that he is the only person that come from heaven ( John 3:13 )

Ebony7:

Re: "Abraham's Bosom"
http://biblehub.com/greek/2859.htm

1. the front of the body between the
arms hence ἀνακεῖσθαι ἐν τῷ κόλπῳ
τίνος, of the one who so reclines at
table that his head covers the bosom
as it were, the chest, of the one next
him (cf. B. D. under the word ), John
13:23 . "Hence" the figurative
expressions, ἐν τοῖς κόλποις (on the
plural, which occurs as early as
Homer, Iliad 9, 570, cf. Winers
Grammar, § 27, 3; (Buttmann, 24
(21))τοῦ Ἀβραάμ εἶναι, to obtain the
seat next to Abraham, i. e. to be
partaker of the same blessedness as
Abraham in paradise, Luke 16:23 ;
ἀποφέρεσθαι ... εἰς τόν κόλπον
Ἀβραάμ, be borne away to the
enjoyment of the same felicity with
Abraham, Luke 16:22 (οὕτω γάρ
παθόντας — according to another
reading θανόντας — Ἀβραάμ καί
Ἰσαάκ καί Ἰακώβ ὑποδέξονται εἰς
τούς κόλπους αὐτῶν, 4 Macc. 13:16;
(see B. D. under the phrase,
Abraham's bosom, and) on the
rabbinical phrase אברהם שׁל בּחיקו , in
Abraham's bosom, to designate bliss
in paradise cf. Lightfoot, Horace,
Hebrew et Talmud., p. 851ff); ὁ ὤν
εἰς τόν κόλπον τοῦ πατρός, lying
(turned) unto the bosom of his father
(God), i. e. in the closest and most
intimate relation to the Father, John
1:18 (Winers Grammar, 415 (387));
cf. Cicero, ad div. 14,4iste vero sit in
sinu semper et complexu meo.
2. the bosom of a garment, i. e. the
hollow formed by the upper forepart
of a rather loose garment bound by a
girdle, used for keeping and carrying
things (the fold or pocket; cf. B. D.
under the word ) ( Exodus 4:6 ;
Proverbs 6:27 ); so, figuratively,
μέτρον καλόν διδόναι εἰς τόν
κόλπον τίνος, to repay one liberally,
Luke 6:38 (ἀποδιδόναι εἰς τόν
κόλπον, Isaiah 65:6 ; Jeremiah 39:18
()).
3. a bay of the sea (cf. Italian golf only
(English gulf — which may be only
the modern representatives of the
Greek word)): Acts 27:39
.

Jozzy4:


Kai . See the color , see how u nicely render the story as parable , so Abraham Bossom is a FIGURATIVE expression ?

Ebony7:

I ve said it before, d only recorded details of preexistence is that of Jesus ~John/Abraham.
That of Abraham~Abel? It's not written that Abraham spiritually preexist Abel! Physically, Abel was d forerunner!

------------------

MizJanet:



You forget that those men aint born agains, yet they see the kingdom of God , which clearly contradict Jesus word that "unless any man is born again " .

I like the way you people contradict yourselves .

then you just prove Jesus is not the way , Daniel nd moses made heaven without Jesus dying for their sins ? Yes Or No

Jozzy4:


Stop giving this girl more reason to mock , who are the US ?

Jozzy4:


This is why athiests and freethinkers bash christianity ......... Must you twist everything , the cancelled word is a deliberate insertion by you to cover the clear truth of the verse .


Show me where scripture said GOD took methuselah ?

Living4christ:


Genesis 5:24

Sorry the underlined word is enoch not methuselas.

Living4christ:


The purpose of his death is to make us holy to inherit Gods kingdom

Livin4Christ
All Humans (God's Creation)

Jozzy4:
Bro , here is your first post that led to my question :



From this post above , we can see that you are telling us that if Jesus did not die for us , NOBODY will be holy to inherit Gods Kingdom

To avoid confusion , i asked further : who re the us ?

And u replied :


Clearly , then it means none of us ( all humans) can be holy to inherit Gods kingdom without Jesus dying for us .

We can now ask : why would God allow unclean humans like Noah to make heaven ? Remember they are unclean since its only the death of Jesus that will make humans holy.

This is why atheists and freethinkers bash christianity ......... Must you twist everything , the cancelled word is a deliberate insertion by you to cover the clear truth of the verse.

Show me where scripture said GOD took methuselah ?