If you are a Christian, have you ever wondered why you are a Christian? Which of the following best explains why you are a Christian?

1) You were born in a Christian family and have lived all your life in a Christian community

2) You have thoroughly investigated the Christian narrative and found them to be overwhelming true?

3) Following from the "truth of Christian", you are frighten of the supernatural world of demons, devils, satan and you hope being a Christian would convey protection from these forces.

4) Following from the "truth of Christian", you badly want to serve, worship and praise God.

5) Following from the "truth of Christian", you expect "breakthroughs" being a child of God.

6) You are a cultural Christian cuz you admire the Christian tradition/relics/regalia, etc, etc.

Huxley, do you want to become a priest?
Why ask why? Why am I male? Why am I educated? Why am I a christian? Why am I born into a rich family? such questions are not as important as what you do from where you find yourself. BTW, do you know what it means to be a christian or a christain?
Irrespective of what religious background you may have today, it is good to note that man is a free moral agent. We all make decisions/ are capable of making decisions. The words of our Lord Jesus kind of captures and addresses your worries.
Matthew 19:12 says ' for there are some eunuchs, which were so born from their mother's womb: and there are some eunuchs, which were made eunuchs of men: and there be eunuchs, which have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of Heaven's sake. '
You could easily use the word 'christian' there instead of 'eunuch' to help explain the analogy to you. People follow God for various reasons, the important thing is that you follow God. Some make decision to follow God because a loved one died, some because they were at a church meeting or crusade, some because they read a book, some its a dream, some were pushed to it maybe by poverty, enemy, fear, culture, whatever.
Some are born eunuchs, some people truly follow God because they were born into a godly home/environment. (we've seen terrible unbelievers who were born and raised in a godly environ. Its your decision/choice).
Some are made eunuchs by men. Some people follow God/are christians because of their exposure. The listened to the right people, gone to the right churches, read the right books and tracts that influenced their decisions to be followers of God.
Others have made themselves eunuchs for The Kingdom Of God's sake. They made themselves. Despite lack of exposure or living in an atheist and unbelieving environment, they decided to follow God. They didn't sit down in darkness giving excuses or asking for proof or coming up with endless questions and mockings.
Jesus said, he that is able to receive it let him receive it. It depends on you. You can decide to follow God today. You can accept Jesus today, no matter your circumstance, upbringing or belief. Making excuses that 'you're only a christian because of such and such' will not do. Jesus has opened the way and left us all without excuse. All we need to do is Only Believe.

John 6:44
No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

None of your answers fits me, Huxley.

I'm a Christian simply because I choose to be.

mactao:

John 6:44
No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

is that verse to be taken literally? or is it some form of metaphor? where then does your much touted free will come in? and how is this supposed to encourage any form of morality when I can just go on perpetuating all sorts of immorality while waiting for your father to call me?
Please we don't want such open ended answers that raise even more questions, the question could hardly have been posed more clearly. No bible mumbo jumbo please.

Bastage:

None of your answers fits me, Huxley.

I'm a Christian simply because I choose to be.

No offence meant but this doesn't sound totally sane, can you also kill another person just because you choose to kill? you sound like a law unto yourself and I find that a bit disturbing.

duduspace:

No offence meant but this doesn't sound totally sane, can you also kill another person just because you choose to kill? you sound like a law unto yourself and I find that a bit disturbing.

You choose to be an atheist why?

davidylan:

You choose to be an atheist why?

Firstly I am not an atheist, a fact I've indicated a couple of time but which you willfully choose to ignore, my belief system is agnostic. I chose to stop believing in the christian god because it just didn't make sense to me after a while and I saw the god concept for what it really is, a means of providing order in ancient undeveloped societies, a concept which while not totally irrelevant in the developed world we now live in should nevertheless be seen for what it is.

I have a feeling your line of questioning will lead to how I make my moral choices so I'll spare you the need to ask, I share this earth with others and nothing makes me better or more important than the next person so I do to others as I expect them to do to me (one of the few things in the mumbo jumbo called christianity that does seem to make practical sense).

duduspace:

Firstly I am not an atheist, a fact I've indicated a couple of time but which you willfully choose to ignore, my belief system is agnostic. [size=14pt]I chose to stop believing in the christian god because it just didn't make sense to me after a while and I saw the god concept for what it really is, a means of providing order in ancient undeveloped societies, a concept which while not totally irrelevant in the developed world we now live in should nevertheless be seen for what it is.[/size]

I have a feeling your line of questioning will lead to how I make my moral choices so I'll spare you the need to ask, I share this earth with others and nothing makes me better or more important than the next person so I do to others as I expect them to do to me (one of the few things in the mumbo jumbo called christianity that does seem to make practical sense).

I dont care about your moral choices . . . that is of no consequence to me as i dont live your life for you.

My point is simple . . . when Bastage stated CLEARLY the reason he chose to be a christian, you called it insane . . . what makes his own position different from yours? Is a christian also right to call your own position insane?

davidylan:

I dont care about your moral choices . . . that is of no consequence to me as i dont live your life for you.

My point is simple . . . when Bastage stated CLEARLY the reason he chose to be a christian, you called it insane . . . what makes his own position different from yours? Is a christian also right to call your own position insane?

If choosing for no apparent reason is "CLEAR" enough reason for you then something is wrong somewhere because the Davidylan I knew despite his disposition towards discarding his reasons for doing things on a whim or twisting them as he saw fit, did usually have reasons for holding his beliefs.

I gave my reason which you have clearly outlined in your post (fair enough, they might sound unreasonable to you) but where is Bastage's reason? sorry I forgot his reason is because he chose to.

Make any sense?

duduspace:

If choosing for no apparent reason is "CLEAR" enough reason for you then something is wrong somewhere because the Davidylan I knew despite his disposition towards discarding his reasons for doing things on a whim or twisting them as he saw fit, did usually have reasons for holding his beliefs.

I gave my reason which you have clearly outlined in your post (fair enough, they might sound unreasonable to you) but where is Bastage's reason? sorry I forgot his reason is because he chose to.

Make any sense?

Not only did your own "reasons" make absolutely no shred of sense to me . . . i thought Bastage's actually was more authentic. He is a christian for the simple reason that HE HAS MADE A CONSCIOUS CHOICE to follow the Lord . . . why is that not reason enough?

the fact that he did not outline his myriad of reasons in a 50-page thesis does not mean he had no "apparent reasons".

davidylan:

Not only did your own "reasons" make absolutely no shred of sense to me . . . i thought Bastage's actually was more authentic. He is a christian for the simple reason that HE HAS MADE A CONSCIOUS CHOICE to follow the Lord . . . why is that not reason enough?

the fact that he did not outline his myriad of reasons in a 50-page thesis does not mean he had no "apparent reasons".

i beg leave all these confused people jor. paul said some people think they are something when they are not. i wonder what gives dudu the right to question and rubbish peoples faith

davidylan:

Not only did your own "reasons" make absolutely no shred of sense to me . . . i thought Bastage's actually was more authentic. He is a christian for the simple reason that HE HAS MADE A CONSCIOUS CHOICE to follow the Lord . . . why is that not reason enough?

the fact that he did not outline his myriad of reasons in a 50-page thesis does not mean he had no "apparent reasons".

Bastage ONLY believes in the God of the NT, he doesn't believe in the warrior God of the OT. Are you just here because you want to argue or do you really believe in what you are saying . You have labelled bastage an atheist so many times. You have said so many times that he is not a Christian. Now just because you are having an argument you suddenly decided that HE HAS MADE A CONSCIOUS CHOICE to follow the Lord.  

davidylan:

Not only did your own "reasons" make absolutely no shred of sense to me . . . i thought Bastage's actually was more authentic. He is a christian for the simple reason that HE HAS MADE A CONSCIOUS CHOICE to follow the Lord . . . why is that not reason enough?

the fact that he did not outline his myriad of reasons in a 50-page thesis does not mean he had no "apparent reasons".

The first I anticipated in my post knowing your predisposition to deny the obvious, so yu've said nothing new, the second is either a bare faced lie or a contradiction in terms, please point out anyone who has made an "UNCONSCIOUS CHOICE".

No one asked for a 50 paged thesis, yu are the one assuming he has to supply one as your bible clearly states that in the multitude of words, there is usually a lot of lies (an obvious indictment of the book itself).

bindex:

Bastage ONLY believes in the God of the NT, he doesn't believe in the warrior God of the OT. Are you just here because you want to argue or do you really believe in what you are saying . You have labelled bastage an atheist so many times. You have said so many times that he is not a Christian. Now just because you are having an argument you suddenly decided that HE HAS MADE A CONSCIOUS CHOICE to follow the Lord.  

I am simply going based on the one post Bastage has made here . . . your irrational and aimless wandering all over issues that occurred 32 yrs ago makes no sense to me at all.

If Bastage believes only in the NT God i think he has a right to make that choice. Duduspace has no right to label his belief insane.

duduspace:

The first I anticipated in my post knowing your predisposition to deny the obvious, so yu've said nothing new, the second is either a bare faced lie or a contradiction in terms, please point out anyone who has made an "UNCONSCIOUS CHOICE".

Another aimless and confused response for the sole reason of a response only. No attempt to convey a rational point.

That someone makes a conscious choice to go to school does not automatically mean there are those who have sleep-walked unwillingly into school too.

davidylan:

I am simply going based on the one post Bastage has made here . . . your irrational and aimless wandering all over issues that occurred 32 yrs ago makes no sense to me at all.

If Bastage believes only in the NT God i think he has a right to make that choice. Duduspace has no right to label his belief insane.

Ohh you are the only person that has the right to label his belief insane right? Why did you declear that he was not a Christian even when he told you that he was one? where you not labelling his own christian beliefs as insane when you labelled him an atheist?  you really are one funny sick person.

duduspace:

No offence meant but this doesn't sound totally sane, can you also kill another person just because you choose to kill? you sound like a law unto yourself and I find that a bit disturbing.

Why would you find it disturbing?
The fact is that I am a law unto myself but that I am also bound by my moral values.

To understand what I mean when I say I choose to be a Christian, you really need to understand the meaning of being able to freely choose and what it entails.

bindex:

Ohh you are the only person that has the right to label his belief insane right? Why did you declear that he was not a Christian even when he told you that he was one? where you not labelling his own christian beliefs as insane when you labelled him an atheist?  you really are one funny sick person.

Yawns . . . next pls.

davidylan:

I am simply going based on the one post Bastage has made here . . . your irrational and aimless wandering all over issues that occurred 32 yrs ago makes no sense to me at all.

If Bastage believes only in the NT God i think he has a right to make that choice. Duduspace has no right to label his belief insane.

You miss the point, it is pity you can't think well and are always jumping to conclusions. I did not label his beliefs insane, you have assumed that. I only questioned the statement he made. I was simply asking him to clarify his statement because his statement implied making a choice without any thought process towards making a choice. You'll soon start foaming in the mouth if you go on like this in your fighting for god mode. I now wonder who is more barmy in yourself and Abuzola.

In your figh

davidylan:

Another aimless and confused response for the sole reason of a response only. No attempt to convey a rational point.

That someone makes a conscious choice to go to school does not automatically mean there are those who have sleep-walked unwillingly into school too.

it is your initial post which I responded to that didn't make much sense which is why I decided yu could have meant one of two things, since you have now eliminated the second (a contradiction in terms) I then state categorically that you are a bare face liar because there is nothing in Bastage's original statement that suggested a conscious decision unless you prove to me that choosing without a reason is a conscious decision.

I don't care wether David thinks I'm a Christian or not and arguing over the subject is a waste of time.
All you're trying to do is score points over each other.

duduspace:

there is nothing in Bastage's original statement that suggested a conscious decision unless you prove to me that choosing without a reason is a conscious decision.

Believe me. Choosing without a reason is the whole point of it. It's the most conscious decision I believe one could make.

Bastage:

Why would you find it disturbing?
The fact is that I am a law unto myself but that I am also bound by my moral values.

To understand what I mean when I say I choose to be a Christian, you really need to understand the meaning of being able to freely choose and what it entails.

Thanks for the response Bastage, Davidylan was beginning to bring out my dark side.

Beleive me I meant no offense in my initial post and was only looking for a clarification since your initial statement taken literally could imply choosing without thinking at all.

Can you explain by what you mean by "being able to freely choose" and what it entails?

I sincerely hope that does not lead to Davidylan's so called 50 page thesis.

duduspace:


Can you explain by what you mean by "being able to freely choose" and what it entails?

It's not easy to explain but I'll try and give you a general idea.

Everything we choose in this world is not done with freedom as we may think. Everything. We are coerced in some way by our reality.
I believe that God is beyond reality and therefore using a reason based in the material to choose Him is self-defeating. And as the only reasons we have are material then not having a reason is the logical thing to do.
As Huxley has pointed out in his first post, many people choose for those reasons. When they do, I believe that they are not seeing the whole picture, they're letting material yearnings dictate their choice. It's therefore not a free choice.

If you are not able to make a free choice you are choosing for a reason. That reason is for yourself. I don't follow God for myself, to me, that would be self-serving and not really following Him. Therefore, the only reason I can have for following him is no reason thus meaning that I freely choose.

I hope that makes sense.

@duduspace
you'll not find John6v44 so disturbing or confusing if you're a student of the Word. If you just take the pain to read the book of John complete, you'll find your answers. Its in the same John's gospel that Jesus talks about Searching the scriptures.
John 3:14,15
And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be LIFTED UP: that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have eternal life.
Note that word 'lifted up' and turn to John 12v32.
And I, if I be LIFTED UP from the earth, will draw all men unto me.
If you're collected enough, you notice that Jesus says He'll draw all men. All men have been drawn, it is left for each individual to humble himself before God and He'll lift you up. His hands are outstretched while it is called Today, if you respond by stretching your own, He'll lift you up. Thats the 'much touted' free-will we're talking about. It is not God's will that any should perish but that all should COME to repentance. It takes your coming before you can be a christian. It takes your FOLLOWING even after coming. Only followers are true christians.

WHY AM I A CHRISTAIN? THE QUESTION SHOULD BE WHAT SITUATION PROMPTED YOU TO BE A CHRISTAIN. BASICALLY, BEEN A CHRISTAIN IS THE BEST THING THAT CAN EVER HAPPEN TO ANYONE.

Image123:

@duduspace
you'll not find John6v44 so disturbing or confusing if you're a student of the Word. If you just take the pain to read the book of John complete, you'll find your answers. Its in the same John's gospel that Jesus talks about Searching the scriptures.
John 3:14,15
And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be LIFTED UP: that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have eternal life.
Note that word 'lifted up' and turn to John 12v32.
And I, if I be LIFTED UP from the earth, will draw all men unto me.
If you're collected enough, you notice that Jesus says He'll draw all men. All men have been drawn, it is left for each individual to humble himself before God and He'll lift you up. His hands are outstretched while it is called Today, if you respond by stretching your own, He'll lift you up. Thats the 'much touted' free-will we're talking about. It is not God's will that any should perish but that all should COME to repentance. It takes your coming before you can be a christian. It takes your FOLLOWING even after coming. Only followers are true christians.

You see the problem with apologetics is that you will have to keep adding and subtracting when there is NOTHING to add or subtract.  You said all men have been drawn, but they have to humble themselves? That is not what John 6:44 says, that is what YOU are saying. John 6:44 says something else. There is no where in John 6:44 that says you will have to respond by stretching your hands, legs, nose or ears. I don't care about what the verse says or does not say I am tired of Christians saying what the bible does not say to score non existent points. Then again I know that you will come back and tell me that, that's what the "holy spirit" tells you, if ask tell another "holy spirit" filled Christian to interpret the same passage he will interpert it VERY differently.

John 6:44
No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

I think you don't know what it means to draw a person, when you draw someone to something his opinion or actions does NOT matter at ALL.

Yehmey:

WHY AM I A CHRISTAIN? THE QUESTION SHOULD BE WHAT SITUATION PROMPTED YOU TO BE A CHRISTAIN. BASICALLY, BEEN A CHRISTAIN IS THE BEST THING THAT CAN EVER HAPPEN TO ANYONE.

Are you sure?

More ignorant arguments . . .

bindex:

You see the problem with apologetics is that you will have to keep adding and subtracting when there is NOTHING to add or subtract.  You said all men have been drawn, but they have to humble themselves? That is not what John 6:44 says, that is what YOU are saying. John 6:44 says something else.

Indeed John 6:44 does say nothing about "humbling ourselves" . . . but that your argument is EXACTLY the problem with ignorant atheists. You build a mountain on one verse forgetting that other verses include several details that John 6:44 could have omitted.

James 4 says ALMOST EXACTLY the same thing John 6:44 was saying and here is how he puts it in clearer detail - 8 D[b]raw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you.[/b] Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded. 9 Be afflicted, and mourn, and weep: let your laughter be turned to mourning, and your joy to heaviness. 10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

All we get here are a bunch of uneducated rabble rousers.

bindex:

There is no where in John 6:44 that says you will have to respond by stretching your hands, legs, nose or ears.

Nowhere in image123's post does he literarily imply that you have to lift your physical body to God. YOU CANT. What John 6:44 and James 4:8-10 are saying is not to physically lift your hands but to approach God in prayer and genuine repentance. Hyperbole is lost on the ignorant.

bindex:

I don't care about what the verse says or does not say I am tired of Christians saying what the bible does not say to score non existent points. Then again I know that you will come back and tell me that, that's what the "holy spirit" tells you, if ask tell another "holy spirit" filled Christian to interpret the same passage he will interpert it VERY differently.

I think we are more tired of frauds who come here trying to force their own bias into the bible.

bindex:

I think you don't know what it means to draw a person, when you draw someone to something his opinion or actions does NOT matter at ALL.

More ignorance . . . read James 4 again. 8 Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you.

God has ALREADY paid the price for sin . . . but YOU have to do the accepting FIRST. When you draw nigh to God in repentance . . . then He will draw you to Himself.

Verse 8 does not say - God will draw you whether you draw nigh or not . . . you have to move close OF YOUR OWN FREEWILL.

davidylan:

More ignorant arguments . . .

Indeed John 6:44 does say nothing about "humbling ourselves" . . . but that your argument is EXACTLY the problem with ignorant atheists. You build a mountain on one verse forgetting that other verses include several details that John 6:44 could have omitted.

James 4 says ALMOST EXACTLY the same thing John 6:44 was saying and here is how he puts it in clearer detail - 8 D[b]raw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you.[/b] Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded. 9 Be afflicted, and mourn, and weep: let your laughter be turned to mourning, and your joy to heaviness. 10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

All we get here are a bunch of uneducated rabble rousers.

Nowhere in image123's post does he literarily imply that you have to lift your physical body to God. YOU CANT. What John 6:44 and James 4:8-10 are saying is not to physically lift your hands but to approach God in prayer and genuine repentance. Hyperbole is lost on the ignorant.

I think we are more tired of frauds who come here trying to force their own bias into the bible.

Another meaningless apologetics, I was talking about John 6:44 if you read my post I was precise when i said John 6: 44 never said any such thing. You quickly went ahead and quoted a verse from James, is James what we are talking about or the passage in John? . All we get are a bunch of desperate apologies all the time that don't even address the matter at hand.

davidylan:

More ignorance . . . read James 4 again. 8 Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you.

God has ALREADY paid the price for sin . . . but YOU have to do the accepting FIRST. When you draw nigh to God in repentance . . . then He will draw you to Himself.
Verse 8 does not say - God will draw you whether you draw nigh or not . . . you have to move close OF YOUR OWN FREEWILL.

Again more desperate attempts to say things that the bible does not say. The bible does not mention the word free will if i am correct. If you want to quote verses out of the bible to buttress your point I can as well do the same. There is no such thing as free will in the bible.

Rom 8:28  And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to his purpose.
Rom 8:29  For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers.
Rom 8:30  And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified

These verses completely tell a different story, it goes against your claim that you have to move close to god of your own free will. It talks about the god of the bible knowing people even before they chose him and having already predestined them to be called and conformed to the image of his son.

Rom 9:16  So then it depends not on human will or exertion, but on God, who has mercy.
Rom 9:17  For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, "For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I might show my power in you, and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth."
Rom 9:18 So then he has mercy on whomever he wills, and he hardens whomever he wills.

Here again the bible says a very different thing all together, it says god choses to do what ever he wants to do with people, It clearly says that it depends not on human will or exertion but on god who has mercy because he hardens whomever he wills or has mercy on whom ever he will. This goes completely against the free will agrument because this passages says humans he chose those he wants in him before the foundation of the world, that they should be holy and blameless before him. no free will, god decideds to do with them what ever he pleases. Again this goes against what you said that you will have to go near to god first, The bible here clearly says that God choses those he wants to save and those he wants to condem by hardening their hearts according to his own will.

Eph 1:4  even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love
Eph 1:5 he predestined us for adoption as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will,
Eph 1:6  to the praise of his glorious grace, with which he has blessed us in the Beloved.

Again this verse goes against all what you have said about people having to accept Christ because the bible here says that God has already chosen Christians unto him before the foundations of the earth, he had already predestined Christians for adoption as his sons according to the purpose of HIS will not their will. Again here no such thing as FREE WILL

Eph 1:11  In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will, Eph 2:10  For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.

Again these verse goes against what you have said, god has already predestined people unto him according to his will.

Php 2:13  for it is God who works in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure

Joh 6:65  And he said, "This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless it is granted him by the Father."

As mazaje said on the other thread  these are very strong "evidence" for Christians since you believe this stuffs then there is no "free will". I am tired of Christians Just cutting and patching bible verses to mean what they want them to mean. I wonder what the verse in John has to do with what another verse in James.

davidylan:


Nowhere in image123's post does he literarily imply that you have to lift your physical body to God. YOU CANT. What John 6:44 and James 4:8-10 are saying is not to physically lift your hands but to approach God in prayer and genuine repentance. Hyperbole is lost on the ignorant.

And i can argue that John 6:44 and James 4:8-18 are NOT saying the same thing. YOU only chose to believe that they are saying the same thing. You clearly do not know what the writer of the passage in John had in mind when he wrote that passage.

John 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

James 4 vs 8 Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded. 9 Be afflicted, and mourn, and weep: let your laughter be turned to mourning, and your joy to heaviness. 10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

If you don't see the differenc then its either you are stupid, a liar or you haven't read the passages.

Joh 6:65 And he said, "This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless it is[b] granted him by the Father[/b]."

The father GRANTS everything ACCORDING to his will. If you like you can draw closer to the father but if he doesn't want or doesn't feel like granting you the chance, you will do it in vain. EVERYTHING depends on the WILL of the father according to the bible. Again I do not believe in all these but pls stop lying for Jesus.