Is impossible to obtain grace without faith and is also impossible to sustain faith without work. That a lot of christians do not understand, and is one of the reasons people are dropping their faith and going back in to the world.
I have being observing Christianity and I have discovered that, christians neglect work, even when they talks about it, they normally use the word faith and grace to make work of no effect. Many pastors and teachers talks about grace a great deal, they always leave this little details which is a core foundation for a healthy christian life, that faith is sustained by works and it makes grace unending. I know you are asking yourself what does he mean by now. Listen to this "Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. 18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works. 19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble. 20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?" James 2:17-20. Have you heard it right there, paul also said workout your salvation with fear and trembling. Philippians 2:12. I know you will be saying but paul talked about grace in the book of romans. Yes the same romans 8:1 paul says "There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit". The walk he talks about there, is your daily activity, your life style should be geared toward righteousness. So work is as important as faith and grace. Faith and grace makes your work perfect. You are not to worry if your work is perfect, that's the work of faith and grace, yours is to get into action and do your best, grace and faith will perfect the rest. May the Lord bless you as you workout your salvation with fear and trembling in Jesus name.

A great topic you started but you messed up a lot of things in between though. We can share and Rob minds if you don't mind though

Goshen360:
A great topic you started but you messed up a lot of things in between though. We can share and Rob minds if you don't mind though

ok no problems, what's your point?

Goshen360:
A great topic you started but you messed up a lot of things in between though. We can share and Rob minds if you don't mind though

I'm waiting to hear from you brother.

Okay but you can go to sleep though because we're not on same time zone except you have other things to do during the night period. I'm at work and will respond line - by - line to your discussion when I get home. Hopefully, you'll get to read when you wake up and we can continue from there.

But first, you should have separated work as equal to labor vs work as in what we do that causes something to happen and works that is a result of the finished sacrifice of Christ or a corresponding action to what one believes. These are ways scripture used work (s).

Earthkumy:


Is impossible to obtain grace without faith and is also impossible to sustain faith without work. That a lot of christians do not understand, and is one of the reasons people are dropping their faith and going back in to the world.

By "work or works" here, I assume you're talking about "performance that we do which causes something to happen. If that is what you're referring to then, the above statement in red is wrong. If you\we didn't get it by work(s), how shall be sustain it by work(s)? If our performance didn't make it happen, how could our performance sustain it? Listen to what the Apostle says about sustaining faith with work(s):

King James Bible
And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.
Romans 11:6

In a nut shell, this is what the book of Galatians refuted. You began in the Spirit, by faith. Why are you now trying to continue or sustain your faith by works? Know ye not, that the just (that is those who are already justified by faith) shall live (or continue) by faith?

Earthkumy:


I have being observing Christianity and I have discovered that, christians neglect work, even when they talks about it, they normally use the word faith and grace to make work of no effect.

If you refer to "work" here as labour, that statement is wrong because no Christian will neglect work because of faith. That will be stupidity! If you refer to work here as performance that causes something to happen; that was the system under the law - a performance based and truely, they have to sustain it by works because they rejected the grace of God. Christian work is a work(s) that is born out of our new nature, not work(s) that causes something to happen. It is our corresponding action to what we profess or believe. BUT work(s) that causes things to happen is actually of no effect in Christianity because if it is by work(s) that causes things to happen, we will boast of it. That's why is all Grace so it will be void of work(s) and boasting.

Earthkumy:


Many pastors and teachers talks about grace a great deal, they always leave this little details which is a core foundation for a healthy christian life, that faith is sustained by works and it makes grace unending.

Again, you\we can't sustain faith by works because we never got it by works in the first place neither does our works makes Grace unending. If you truly understand God's Grace. You will know it you getting what (goodness of God) you don't even deserve - that's why some call it unmeritted favour of God. It was void of your works, how then will your works sustain it or keep it? However, there's work that follows or born out of your\our new nature in Christ. This is not works that causes things to happen but works that is born after the new nature in Christ - it is the good works that we do by our new nature.

Berean Study Bible
For we are God's workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared in advance as our way of life.
Ephesians 2:10

Look at the ^ above scripture closely: IN CHRIST for good works. This works is not your self efforts.

Earthkumy:


I know you are asking yourself what does he mean by now. Listen to this "Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. 18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works. 19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble. 20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?" James 2:17-20.

Simply put, James is not promoting a work (self efforts and performance that causes things to happen) base here. He was teaching a corresponding action to what you say you believe. Many Christians have read into what James was saying. If you go to the example of Abraham James gave. How was Abraham Justified? By faith? By works? Or Both? Abraham, scripture says was justified by faith. He BELIEVED GOD AND THIS WAS COUNTED TO HIM FOR RIGHTEOUSNESS. So, what happens next was, we saw or read a CORRESPONDING action following what Abraham believe. This is what some understood to be "taking a step of faith or taking a step after or following your faith".

The faith comes first and does the job. Read through all\most of the miracles of Christ, it's in the order of FAITH first, then corresponding action.

Earthkumy:


Have you heard it right there, paul also said workout your salvation with fear and trembling. Philippians 2:12.

This scripture has been grossly taken out of context as well, misunderstood and read into. There's no way you\we can "work out" our own salvation as in make it happen or perform it. This "work out" in that context is not a performance base neither is it a self effort on our own part. It is what is already inside of us that had taken place (salvation in its complete package) that we are expected to "work it out" better understood as "live it out". If you are already saved by grace through faith ( that is, salvation already took place in you), what salvation are you still working out by yourself rather than "live out" what has taken place inside of you?. If Paul meant, we are responsible for working out our own salvation as in self efforts and performance, then grace is no longer grace and the following verse will make no sense to the verse above: Look at it here:

King James Bible
For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.
Philippians 2:13

Earthkumy:


Yes the same romans 8:1 paul says "There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit". The walk he talks about there, is your daily activity, your life style should be geared toward righteousness. So work is as important as faith and grace. Faith and grace makes your work perfect. You are not to worry if your work is perfect, that's the work of faith and grace, yours is to get into action and do your best, grace and faith will perfect the rest. May the Lord bless you as you workout carry or live out (to the goal\purpose of) your salvation with fear and trembling in Jesus name.

I think you are good on the aspect ^ above. I only fixed something there...

Goshen360:


By "work or works" here, I assume you're talking about "performance that we do which causes something to happen. If that is what you're referring to then, the above statement in red is wrong. If you\we didn't get it by work(s), how shall be sustain it by work(s)? If our performance didn't make it happen, how could our performance sustain it? Listen to what the Apostle says about sustaining faith with work(s):

King James Bible
And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.
Romans 11:6

In a nut shell, this is what the book of Galatians refuted. You began in the Spirit, by faith. Why are you now trying to continue or sustain your faith by works? Know ye not, that the just (that is those who are already justified by faith) shall live (or continue) by faith?

well paul didn't rule work out in romans 11:6 he used the word more of works, that's to say u have to put in some element of work no matter how little it is. that was why I said in the later part of the writing that your work don't need to be perfect that grace and faith complete it for you. Faith without work is dead brother. Without grace your work can never qualify you and without some element of input of work your faith will die

Goshen360:


This scripture has been grossly taken out of context as well, misunderstood and read into. There's no way you\we can "work out" our own salvation as in make it happen or perform it. This "work out" in that context is not a performance base neither is it a self effort on our own part. It is what is already inside of us that had taken place (salvation in its complete package) that we are expected to "work it out" better understood as "live it out". If you are already saved by grace through faith ( that is, salvation already took place in you), what salvation are you still working out by yourself rather than "live out" what has taken place inside of you?. If Paul meant, we are responsible for working out our own salvation as in self efforts and performance, then grace is no longer grace and the following verse will make no sense to the verse above: Look at it here:

King James Bible
For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.
Philippians 2:13

when I mention that part of the scripture I was talking about the little input you have to put in. Like I said before without grace your work is nothing, but without some element of in put from you your faith will be dead

Goshen360:


Again, you\we can't sustain faith by works because we never got it by works in the first place neither does our works makes Grace unending. If you truly understand God's Grace. You will know it you getting what (goodness of God) you don't even deserve - that's why some call it unmeritted favour of God. It was void of your works, how then will your works sustain it or keep it? However, there's work that follows or born out of your\our new nature in Christ. This is not works that causes things to happen but works that is born after the new nature in Christ - it is the good works that we do by our new nature.

Berean Study Bible
For we are God's workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared in advance as our way of life.
Ephesians 2:10

Look at the ^ above scripture closely: IN CHRIST for good works. This works is not your self efforts.

it is written without work you faith is dead James 2:17 my formal answers will give you incite

In my ending I stated that you work can't justify you. grace and faith is there to do that, so all the points you are bring out have already been covered by that statement. Thanks

I also stated that your works don't need to be perfect.

@earthkumi thanks for bringing this topic up more revelation,@goshen ur words are insightful i appreciate God for those rhema more grace. what i will say is GRACE is God provision for mankind,HE cant expire if so HE was provided 2000yrs ago and HE still exist,those that are gonna come after will still enjoy HIM.You cant run out of Grace,HE cant be increased but a man can fall from Grace and a man can increase in Grace. Grace is symbolic in that HE is the personality of Christ Jesus.God heaping GRACE upon GRACE is God taking us from one realm to another in Grace.This is where faith comes in,as Grace is Gods part,faith is your own part to trust Gods provision and it is void of labor(works) we are not justified by work because it boast.It is not the amount of prayer,fasting or church activities that u are doing(though they wil later be a product of faith a regenerated life,if they are done on the platform of faith,if it is faith that inspire these deeds they become acceptable by God otherwise carnal)that saves

strayhand:
@earthkumi thanks for bringing this topic up more revelation,@goshen ur words are insightful i appreciate God for those rhema more grace. what i will say is GRACE is God provision for mankind,HE cant expire if so HE was provided 2000yrs ago and HE still exist,those that are gonna come after will still enjoy HIM.You cant run out of Grace,HE cant be increased but a man can fall from Grace and a man can increase in Grace. Grace is symbolic in that HE is the personality of Christ Jesus.God heaping GRACE upon GRACE is God taking us from one realm to another in Grace.This is where faith comes in,as Grace is Gods part,faith is your own part to trust Gods provision and it is void of labor(works) we are not justified by work because it boast.It is not the amount of prayer,fasting or church activities that u are doing(though they wil later be a product of faith a regenerated life,if they are done on the platform of faith,if it is faith that inspire these deeds they become acceptable by God otherwise carnal)that saves

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