I don't think u are open minded and simcere in the whole issue, Allah forgives whom He will because He has full authority over His servants, i have stated the qualification of forgiveness in my previous hadith, simply repent and ask for His forgiveness. The Quranic verse u quote is a man who is proud and ,,,, and does not repent he shall taste the torment of Allah. If u still keep repeating what doesn't make sense am sorry i will ignore it

@Abuzola
The wisdom of God is foolishness unto men never on earth will you think your intellect will apply on spiritual things. Scripture

Ist Corith 1v18
For the word of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.
1 Corinthians 1:21 For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not come to know God, God was well-pleased through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe.

1 Corinthians 2:14 But a natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually appraised.[/color]

My brother I pray that you recieve the Holy Spirit
John14v26

26But the Counselor, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will [color=#006600]teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you.
The Holy Spirit will do it Recieve Him today. Have a blessed day juss like me

@Abuzola
The wisdom of God is foolishness unto men never on earth will you think your intellect will apply on spiritual things. Scripture

Ist Corith 1v18
For the word of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.
1 Corinthians 1:21 For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not come to know God, God was well-pleased through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe.

1 Corinthians 2:14 But a natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually appraised.[/color]

My brother I pray that you recieve the Holy Spirit
John14v26

26But the Counselor, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will [color=#006600]teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you.
The Holy Spirit will do it Recieve Him today. Have a blessed day juss like me

@Abuzola

You can leave the dbate but it leaves My question which

In the Quran it says

Quote from: Abuzola on Yesterday at 07:43:26 PM
Oh ! See Quran 4:116 'Verily, Allah forgives not setting up partners in Him, but He forgives whom He wills sins other than that, and whoever sets up partners in worship with Allah has indeed strayed faraway"

as u can see Allah forgives whom he will and thats what happen to the man u quoted in Bukhari hadith

This means that even if you repent and ask for forgives it is Allahs Will that matters not what you Do or believe. You quoted the Above not me

Now look below

Q. Ch4 (the women)

173) Then as for those who believe and do good, He will pay them fully their rewards and give them more out of His grace; and as for those who disdain and are proud, He will chastise them with a painful chastisement. And they shall not find for themselves besides Allah a guardian or a helper

It says believe and do good is[b] the criteria for forgiveness[/b]

Now from the Hadith


Volume 3, Book 43, Number 652:
Narrated Abu Huraira:

Allah's Apostle said, "While a man was on the way, he found a thorny branch of a tree there on the way and removed it. Allah thanked him for that deed and forgave him."

The person did not need

1) Repent
2) confess allah as the only true and Mohamed his Prophet


It was only the Do good and Allah's component that was shown in the Hadith. The believe component is missing.

Moreso from the Quran you quoted it contradicts The Quran I quoted. because it means that If I cry, repent and ask for my sin to be forgiven If your ALLAH does not WILL then I cannot be forgiven.

Please this is my Question Thanks for your Patience. We cannot be tired of quoting and requoting what we claim to be the Word of Allah.

madolla13:

@Abuzola
The wisdom of God is foolishness unto men never on earth will you think your intellect will apply on spiritual things. Scripture

Ist Corith 1v18
For the word of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.
1 Corinthians 1:21 For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not come to know God, God was well-pleased through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe.

1 Corinthians 2:14 But a natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually appraised.[/color]

My brother I pray that you recieve the Holy Spirit
John14v26

26But the Counselor, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will [color=#006600]teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you.
The Holy Spirit will do it Recieve Him today. Have a blessed day juss like me

Thank for the message, i pray that God should open his eyes and understanding to the knowledge of truth, before it becomes too late for him, because the gods of this word has blinded his eyes, and harden his heart, but the blood that was shared on the cross of calvary will wash him and set him free, if only he accept Jesus as his Lord and personal saviour. may God have mercy on you Abuzola

Your questions are so many. Are you out to know the truth or to find a way to criticize?
I will give u a summary answer to all the questions.

The bible is a collection of 66 books. 39 old testament books- the Jews are the custodians of this, while 27 are in thenew testament- records about life of Jesus Christ and his Apostles with some prophecies regarding the future of mankind. The Bible does not contain detail story of many of the historical events mentioned but selection of some lessons God wants us to learn from His dealings with generations before us. Written in the official languages of their time and translated into several language. It will still continue to be translated toother languages till the end of the world. the Jewish bible is the same as the old testament component of the Christian bible. The Catholic additions are not in the Jewish bible. Though they may be good books but are not accepted as canons.
The main theme of the Bible is the origin, effect, and the solution to the problem of sin. Bible revealed that despite the problem the whole creation is facing due to the introduction of rebellion against the creator, His eternal purose to establish His Kingdom over the whole creation and confine rebels (satan, his angels and humans who chose to follow his lies) to eternal prison called Hell fire.
As sin came from one man (Adam) and the nature of his offspring became corruted- sinful, so does the gift of eternal life came through one man (Jesus Christ- who lived as a man and remained sinless till death). The death (cruel sacrifice by man) of Jesus was preplanned by God as the one and only sacrifice for sin that were committed before, during and after his death till the end of the world. Those Godly people that died before Christ looked forward by faith to His ultimate sacrifice evident in their choice to obey God in shedding of 'innocent animals' blood for their sins, from Abel to the time before the crucifixion of Christ.
You cannot save yourself by your religious activity or self righteousness just like a condemned criminal cannotr be freed bby turning over a new leaf in the prison. If you died still sinning, you will definitely go with the devil to his eternal abode.
It's a simple message, 'whosoever commits sin is of the devil, , for this purpose the Son of God was manifested that he might destroy the power of the devil' whosoever is born of God does not commit sin because His remain i Him, ' in this the chidren of God are manifest and the children of the devil'.
God commended His love towards us in that while we were yet sinners Christ died for us.
there is no religion on earth (except the Jews religion) that tackles the problem of sin as revealed in the Bible and fulfiled in Jesus Christ. He is the Lamb of God that takes away the sin of the world' He is the propritiation for our sins. If you need more info you can contact me through duroprish@aol.com.

a lot of 666 carriers on this religion corner

i gatto run
evilmen

@1st preacher, if the word and message of God can't be understood then why would God send man as a prophet and not angel, why would He send down the Bible in ambiguity when He knows that the people won't understand, what is then the essence of conveying christianity, wise up

@my debater, Quran 4:110 ' And whoever does evil or wrongs himself but afterwards seeks Allah's forgiveness, he will find Allah oft-forgiving , most merciful" this is the principle of forgiveness. On the issue of Allah forgiving whom He wills is directed towards those who do evil and did not repent or ask Allah's forgiveness, if He wills He forgives the sin of His servant without the servant asking for it and if He wills punish him for the sin for he never repent or ask for forgiveness.

Duroe atleast u are better than those who didn't give any attempt, your answers didn't correspond with my question. Let me remind u a few: there is no word 'trinity' in the bible in any version of any language. The oldest form of christianity do not support the born again beliefs. Jesus complain of his crucifixion mark 15:34 Eloi eloi lama sabachthani ? God God why have u forsaken me,' how can jesus be only begotten son of john 3:16 when in psalm 2:7 david is God's begotten son ?. Didn't God create Adam from dirt ? Why does he need mary to make jesus. What about God ? How did God create himself in mary's womb ? How can a man be a god, how can god have a son please explain, can't God just forgive us instead of killing an innocent man jesus, jesus never caim to be God in the bible

Abuzola:

@my debater, Quran 4:110 ' And whoever does evil or wrongs himself but afterwards seeks Allah's forgiveness, he will find Allah oft-forgiving , most merciful" this is the principle of forgiveness.

Oh you mean that is the Criteria for forgiveness? Ok well understood but what about the "WHOEVER" I boldened above?

Abuzola:

On the issue of Allah forgiving whom He wills is directed towards[b] those [/b] who do evil and did not repent or ask Allah's forgiveness,

Who are the "those"

It looks like there are some people that are special in Islam that can sin, not ask for forgiveness, not repent and still be forgiven? how do I qualify to be in this LEAGUE of Men to freely commit sin and not asked Allah for forgiveness?

Abuzola:


if He wills He forgives the sin of His servant without the servant asking for it and

How does one become a super Servant that i dont need to ask for forgiveness and continue to sin like no mans business?

Abuzola:


if He wills punish him for the sin for he never repent or ask for forgiveness.

If he wills? can you tell me what will make him will or not punish. because it is looking like the God you are talking about is not the one I know.

No one knows when he is going to die, many people die in commiting sin hoping to repent later but unfortunately they die

about WHOEVER go and read it again u will understand, u have to talk wisely and not just questioning to defeat,

Quran 4:116 'Verily, Allah forgives not setting up partners in Him, but He forgives whom He wills sins other than that, and whoever sets up partners in worship with Allah has indeed strayed faraway"

Quran 4:110 ' And whoever does evil or wrongs himself but afterwards seeks Allah's forgiveness, he will find Allah oft-forgiving , most merciful" this is the principle of forgiveness.

The 2 above quranic quotation is contradiction.

in one verse it gives the criteria for forgiveness as Allah's will
whilst in the other verse he gives it as Seeking Allah forgiveness.

you said yourself that allah can even forgive without asking. This allah is not Straightforward and this is contradiction to the highest Order.

Even adding more to the Contradiction is the Ahaadith where Allah forgave just by a good deed.

I am not interested in Defeating you. You go and read most of the thread i make my statements wether you think I win or loose I am not that popular.

Abuzola, Thanks for your questions.
1. About Jesus- There is only one God - according to the Bible. 'GOD' is not a name but equivalent to how the word 'human' that is why we have Ogun, sango and others called 'gods' (small g). There are 3 personalities with qualities that make them to be regarded as 'God'. The descriptive term 'God' is however used fror the 'Father' who testified of Jesus ( in his human existence) as His only begotten Son. This is in the sense that His Spirit directly implanted the body of Jesus into Mary's womb. As u know if Mary was a virgin, only her ovum could not have become a n embryo without the male sperm (though could do anything), 'sacrifice and offering thou would not, but a body has thou prepared me'. Jesus was called that name in His human existence but the name has been exalted above all names now because of His vicarious sacrifice and obedience to the Father (God). He ws known as the Word of God before His birth into the world. 'In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God, and the Word became flesh and dwell among us (human)'. As many as received Him gave he power to become sons of God' so there are other sons of God not in the sense of being born by a virgin like Jesus but by adoption through the righteousness of Jesus christ- you can be one today.
to be continued,

Abuzola,
2- trinity is a word use to described the relationship between The Father (God), The Word of God (who came and live as a human as Jesu Christ of nazareth and the Spirit of God ( Holy Ghost). there is no other person revealed in the Bible with the attribute of 'God' otherwise the word trinity would have been out of place. trinity means 3 in 1. There is one God ( as we have one Human- though white, black etc), but 3 persons revealed as having qualities of God (note not 'god'). God commonly used in old testament in original language is Elohim- the plural form of 'Eloi'/'Eli' Jesus called on the cross. (note it is significant that the word was recorded in the original language Jesus used before the english translation).
Whether 'trinity' exists in the bible as a word does not diminish the revealed attributes of Jesus Christ nor of the Holy Spirit. Of Jesus- though he been in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God (the father), but took the form of a servant,; and being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself unto death even the death on the cross. wherefore God has highly exalted him and given him a name which is above every other name, thatat the name of Jesus every knees should bow, of the things in heaven, , on earth, and under the earth, and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the father'
2. The phrase 'been born again' was first used by Jesus Christ (John 3 vs3) and from the teaching and experiences of the Christians in bible days it mean- repent from sins (confess to God and forsake them), believe in the Lord Jesus Christ as the sacrificial lamb (no need of taking any animal to the priest for atonement) and follow him as Lord (obey His commands) and saviour. Whoever professes to be a Christian (whether Bishop, Pastors or who can pray, sing praises, doing arms and good works)and still living in sin or in disobedience to the word of God is deceiving him/her self.
to be continued,

Abuzola,
3. The offence of Adam in the garden of Eden made God to kill animal(s), and used its skin to cover there unclothedness. couldn's god have formed a cloth from the leaves (like men are making cloth from cotton? He told the serpent, the 'SEED' of the 'woman' shall bruise your head. He taught Moses and all prophets the necessity of 'life for life'. An animal had to die for the sin man committed in the old testament as a means of atonement. 'Almost all thing were by the law PURGED with blood and without the shedding of blood is no remission' The disobedience of man made them to die (lose their lifes). To restore life then justice demands a life in exchange. That is why animals had to be sacrificed. But the life of an animal is not equivalent to the life of a man. If all offspring of Adam are under the judgement of death whose life then would be exchanged for the life of a man sin allhave sinned and come short of the glory of God? That is why a second 'Adam' had to come as the 'SEED' of the woman (no contribution of human egg and sperm, just a means of bringing the man to earth) as Jesus Christ of Nazareth, lived as man (emptied of whatever nature of 'God'- hunger, thirsty, felt pain, mortal, wept, tempted like we humans are ;yet without sin). Having completed the work of redemption for us He ascended back to heaven and sat on God's (father) right hand.
'God has given us eternal life; and this eternal life is in His Son Jesus Christ; he that has the Son has life but he that has not the Son has not life'
to be continued,

Abuzola;
I think putting together all my answers (all quotations taken from the Holy Bible), you should be able to my responses to all your questions even if they have not been listed.
There are many typographical error in my writing because i could not edit them.
There is no 'religion' or founder of religion that have provided fair, precise and sure solution to the problem of Sin than what Jesus Christ did. 'God was in Christ (Jesus) reconciling the world unto Himself'. As far as God is concerned, he sees the whole human race in just Two groups- 1. those whose sins are forgiven and 2. those whose sins are not yet forgiven. We argue and see ourselves as Muslims, christians, Judaist, Atheist, Catholics, etc. None of all thes names have anything to do with redemption. 'There is one God and ONE MEDIATOR between God and Men, the man Christ Jesus' neither is there salvation in any other ( not in religion, good works, penance, self righteousness, inheritance, pilgrimages etc) for there is no other name given among men whereby we can be saved'. you (or as many as are reading now) can have your sins forgiven right where you are and have assurance within you of possessing eternal life.
'The times of ignorance God winked at, but now comanded every man every where to repent, because he had appointed a day in the which He will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he has appointed and He has given assurance to everyman by raising Him up from the dead' you can contact me through my email: duroprish@aol.com if you need more help.
NOTE: I am not a Pastor of any Church, just a member of the Body of Christ- though I fellowship with a Living church (denomination)

Abuzola;
Additions:
Jesus' was actually forsaken on the cross according to the exclamation he made while in agony. This is as a result of the sins of the world (as the Lamb of God) which was put on him. 'He who knew no sin was made sin for us that we might become the righteousness of God by him'. God's eye was too Holy to behold iniquity- so Jesus was forsaken so that you (if you accept and repented) could be accepted by God.
Why should our justice system not just forgive crimnal who showedgenuine repentance and remorse for their crimes? why would the law still send them to jail? Anyone can kill, fornicate, steal or commit any kind of sin and just repent. Then who serve the purnishmen for the sins he already committed?
Yes God forgives but He will in no wise clear the guilty. Jesus death is to satisfy the demand for justice. God will be unfair and unjust to just overlook your sins while he purnished Adam and Eve for eating a fruit in disobedience. How will your child be if you just keep forgiving him without carrying out the purnishment you've told him for those offences? If He just forgives as been speculated in some religion, He will be unjust. Anyway it is inconsistent to common sense.

Abuzola:
more: Jesus in his day was even made lower than the Angels (as a Man), but he emptied himself of His prehuman nature voluntarily for the suffering of death- God in His nature is immortal. However he gave many indication of His real person several times during His sermons e.g ' I and my Father are one' and several other- for which the Jews wanted to stone him. He shall be called Emmanuel which is God with us.

Fascinating, i read all u said, the final post made me more confused. U contradicted urself about jesus being god since he cried in agony asking help from another god. About trinity u have not quote any verse where it says trinity but u only gave instances, if thats the case then if i marry 3 wives i am husband of trinity. On the issue of god being in mary's womb but i thought God said all things are possible by his power then why does he require mary, note Adam was fatherless and motherless. How did he create himself inside her ? Is it possible, On the path of man inheriting the sins of Adam and Eve is not to be brought in this case because Galathians 6:5 says Each man will have to bear his own load (burden)' this clearly disqualify our inheritant of Adam's sin according to the book of Genesis and also nullifies jesus paying for another man's sin.

@my debater: to be sincere english language is your problem, i have made everything explicitly. God forgives a person who repent, but those who do not repent if He wills He forgive them and if He will He punish them for their sins. If God should forgive everybody and admit them into paradise then what is the purpose of hell ? The Quran made it clear to us that Hell will be full.

@abuzola
Tthis is why i said that there is a contradiction of the verses of the Alquran and Ahaadith.

I want you to answer me now yes or no


Since you said yourself

Abuzola:

@my debater: to be sincere english language is your problem, i have made everything explicitly. God forgives a person who repent, but those who do not repent[b] if [/b] He wills He forgive them and if He will He punish them for their sins.

What would make him "will" "if" and "will" are not tangible"if" is a supposition and his "Will" will be based on something. sO TELL ME WHAT IS THE "IF" BASED ON AND WHAT IS THE "WILL" BASED ON?

Abuzola:

If God should forgive everybody and admit them into paradise then what is the purpose of hell ? The Quran made it clear to us that Hell will be full.

What this then means is that Your allah is very unjust and he is putting evil and good men together.
To this end i say your allah is a compendium of contradictions, because you yourself cannot give me a straight laid down rule for forgiveness. if i sin and I dont ask for forgiveness what it means is that if Allah is having a good day I may just get admitted into Firdaus Alijana?

Having a good day ? Blessed is He who is sufficient of all things. Yes every muslim will enter paradise whether good or evil but the evil one wil be tormented for a while. This is the salvation of Islam. Allah forgives who He wills- The question u are asking me pertinent to this is tantamount to why does Allah make some people rich and other poor despite the fact that they are all humans, so God is unjust. May Allah have mercy on u.

If you're a mature Christian reading this, please take it seriously. There is no modicum of commonsense or spirituality in responding to every post/comment/question that challenges your faith. Know the difference between questions from a sincere seeker like Nicodemus and questions from a controversial babbler like Sanballat/Tobiah. The difference is glaring: while one is asking to learn and improve; the other is asking to mock (even if you provide the best explanations). It is of this second type of person that the Scripture says: "Ever learning but NEVER able to come to the knowledge of the truth" Why? "Because the god of this world has blinded their eyes" So, no amount of exegesis will help them, I'd prefer exorcism.

Finally, be ever mindful of this Scriptural injunction:

"But foolish and unlearned questions avoid, knowing that they do gender strifes.  And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient" (2 Tim 2:23-24)

The Question nobody wants to answer in christianity

@gen2genius: "Because the god of this world has blinded their eyes" pls gv exact reference frm d exact bk

Abuzola:
It appeared you did not take time to understand all my explanations. In summary:
1. There is no word 'Trinity' in the Bible but the concept of trinity is contained in the Bible.
2. Jesus Christ was given that name in His existence as a human being. In his pre-human existence, he was the Word of God , after His ascension he still assumed his position as the Word of God but now with his name glorified.
3. God forgives everyone that meet the condition for forgiveness- repentance, forsaking those sins, accept the sacrifice for sins made available by God in Jesus Christ, continue in Him till death.
4. It took the death of innocent animals for sacrifice for atonement in the time of the holy prophets- Moses, Abraham, Isaac, Ezekiel, Elijah etc, so Christ (the sinless) also died for the sins of the entire humanity and satified divine justice.
5. About Jesus born of Mary- go and read about cloning and test tube babies. It will help you to understand how Jesus was divinely inplanted into Mary's womb. God made Eve from Adam's rib, so it is not out of place to implant an embryo in a virgin's womb for the saviour to be the 'seed of the woman' as God said to the serpent.
6. I did not mean to say we will be purnished for Adam's sin, but that Adam's disobedience introduced sinful nature (fallen) to all his offsprings- except Jesus that was not conceived through the same method as every man.
7. You will only be judged for your own sins- fornication, lying, fraud, deceit, etc not eating of a fruit in the garden of Eden.
8. If you repent, you will have to find solution for the sins you committed for your repentance and make sure you do not commit any after repentance or find a way of paying for them before you die. Remember the wages of sin is deathj. You will need an equivalent life to make atonement for you and that life have to be sinless or innocent as a prisoner cannot stand as surety for another prisoner.

This is just to make you understand the plan of God according to the Bible. Asking you to believe is a different issue.
But know for sure there is no other provision for redemption available in any religion in the whole world.
May God give you the grace to understand and believe to the saving of your soul.
Unfortunately many people will discover that prophets whose names people say 'peace be unto him' are all this while in peaceless hell fire.
May God open your eyes. If you are sincere and honest, God will set you free in Jesus' name.

Bros i feel u,but my question still remain unanswer,i said why does a god need to go through mary before coming to earth

Why did god cry on the cross if he agree to sacrifice, how can man be god ? he was slapped, spat and struck

'No word trinity in the bible except the concept' ya man i agree with thy

Abuzola:
Read over and over again my previous response to your questions. The answers from the bible are there. They may not be acceptable to you but that is the bible point of view.
Jesus suffered what he suffered because though he had a prehuman existence as the Word of God, yet he was fully human (like you and me ) in the days of his flesh. He had to be baptized in the Holy ghost like you can if you become born again, felt pain, hungry, tempted like you and I. He did not live in his divine nature while living a s a man in Palestine. He had emotions like us, went thru what we are going thru.
So don't mix up his human nature with his prehuman and post human nature. He is alive now and death has no power over him. There is no where, He (or even angels) could have died without becoming man.
'He took the form of man that he might taste death for everyman and through death destroy him that had the power of death (devil) and deliver them who thru the fear of death are subject to bondage'
You have the right to accept or not, but this is the scriptural revelation about the person and mission of Jesus Christ of Nazareth.