"The French government says it may impose restrictions on wearing the burqa, or face-and-body-covering veil, if a parliamentary probe finds the garment degrading for women. The burqa debate is dividing politicians and the Muslim community."



"Boubakeur says that Islam in France must be an open Islam. He says there's no need for women to hide behind the veil. But France's main French Council for the Muslim Religion is against a parliamentary inquiry into wearing the burqa, saying it stigmatizes Islam and Muslims."

Where is the democracy??

http://www.voanews.com/english/2009-06-19-voa51.cfm

Democracy? A nation have the right to outline things that may be contrary to her culture, tradition and general feel of the public.

Is it degrading to women? I am not sure, however it was done as part of "control" of the Islamic cultures over women.

I support france in this matter. I know that some women willingly wear the Burkha as a sign of their devout faith, but if majority muslin countries like Turkey can manage to remain exceptionally secular in the public sphere in the face of religion, especially Islam, Then why can't countries who've made secularism in the state sphere de rigeur if not de jure be expected to do the same in the face of an influx of another religion? BTW didn't france ban the wearing of religious accessories in its public schools a while back?

Good for france! No one should be forced to adopt stupid practices from other groups in the name of democracy

maybe those who want to wear burqas should stop emigrating to countries where burqas are considered odd pieces of clothing. You cant force your culture on others.

davidylan:

maybe those who want to wear burqas should stop emigrating to countries where burqas are considered odd pieces of clothing. You cant force your culture on others.

Isn't that what France is trying to do now? Force their culture on women who wear the burqa?

Isnt France very strict on the separation of church and state?

If other religions arent allowed to mix the two, then why should the burqa women be an exception?

If I were wearing a burqa, I wouldnt go to France, obviously. I'd head for Britain or somewhere else where it wont be considered strange.

blackspade:

Isn't that what France is trying to do now? Force their culture on women who wear the burqa?

They have a right to . . . France is THEIRS. If you want to wear a burqa then stay in Saudi Arabia or Mali. To emigrate to France is not by force.

that pix up there just too funny

davidylan:

They have a right to . . . France is THEIRS. If you want to wear a burqa then stay in Saudi Arabia or Mali. To emigrate to France is not by force.

thank you. If muslims can use this argument for saudi-arabia, why not europeans?

davidylan:

They have a right to . . . France is THEIRS. If you want to wear a burqa then stay in Saudi Arabia or Mali. To emigrate to France is not by force.

Point taken.

Many French citizens, some indigenous, wear Burqas. Within reason, it shouldn't be for the Govt to determine one's mode of dressing.

What France needs to do is limit Muslim migration. These piecemeal measures undermine French citizens' civil liberties and do not tackle the root cause of the Islamists' encroachment of France, which is unchecked Muslim migration.

@topic,

What people wear in the privacy of their homes is their business. However, what they put on must not interfere with the society's established norms and traditions.

I don't think the society is obliged to issue you a Driver's Licence if you insist you cannot show your face in the card. A police oficer will require you to show your face to identify yourself if you are stopped on the highway. Same thing for an exam proctor who needs to make sure the right person is writing a particular examination.

I understand there was a situation either in France or the UK where a judge had to dismiss a case simply because the judge could not see the face of the plaintiff in burqa. The judge ruled that there was no way he/she could determine if the plaintiff was lying or not because the face is hidden behind the veil. Such scenarios show the limitation of the use of the burqa in the normal functioning of a society.

There needs to be a freedom of religious expressions. How about those Muslim women in France who are not allowed to show their face or body parts?? If the burqa is ban that means some will have to keep indoors.Why should society dictate how people dress? France have over 10 million Muslims who contribute to the society like an ordinary frenchman. They need the same freedom and respect like the rest of France.

Obama thoughts on this

"Asked how he felt about the French law, Obama said, "I won't take responsibility for how other countries are going to approach this. I will tell you that in the US, our basic attitude is that we are not going to tell people what to wear." "

http://www.earthtimes.org/articles/show/273955,french-move-to-ban-the-wearing-of-the-burqa--feature.html

If only people will take away their religious bias and look at issues objectively.

First it was the banning of hijabs in schools and government buldings , when they did not acheive their aims now it is banning of burqa in totality. France is a "democracy" and people should have the ability to put on what they want. For goodness sake a woman covered up is termed offensive and a half naked woman walking on the streets is termed cool.

Someone talked of emigration, there are millions of muslims born and bred in France and have no other homes except France. They arent like al we runaways from naija. These people are part and parcle of France and it is up to France to integrate them into the French society and not make them feel disenfranchised like what they are doing right now.

People talked of degradation to women , how is it degrading for a woman who chooses what to wear herself. Who is forcing a grown up woman in France to wear the burqa? No one forced her except herself. Same arguement ws used for the hijab and thousands of women use the hijab in France as a sign of their faith without being forced by no one.

Someone talked of Saudi arabia,Saudi is not a "democracy " remember!!

At a time when real issues should be discussed people are formenting trouble again over a piece of cloth.

The French are not smart in the least, such nonsense can never happen in the UK and with Obama in the US

Lagosboy:

such nonsense can never happen in the UK and with Obama in the US

true talk.

After Obama leaves is a different matter. I suspect the elections then are going to be rough.

Lagos boy, the overwhelming majority of people in france are white and if they identified with any religion at all it would be Christian. The ban on public display of religious accessories in public schools affected all religions, not just muslims. Just because France allows Muslims into their country doesn't mean that they are the majority.

tunku:

Lagos boy, the overwhelming majority of people in france are white and if they identified with any religion at all it would be Christian. The ban on public display of religious accessories in public schools affected all religions, not just muslims. Just because France allows Muslims into their country doesn't mean that they are the majority.

It is not an issue of France allowing muslims into their country it is the isue that majority of the muslims in france are actually French born and part of parcel of France. They are not immigrants there maybe their grandparents but not these youths. 30% of under 25 population in france are muslims and yes 30 % so your argument of overwhelming majority doesnt really apply again. The real issue is France is scared in 30 years it will be a muslim majority and the thoughts of seeing all women in hijabs is the real reson behind the banning. How many other faiths display religious symbols like muslims? Almost every single political commentator know the banning was targeted at muslims and not other religions. Read the extract below

France is facing the problem that dare not speak its name. Though French law prohibits the census from any reference to ethnic background or religion, many demographers estimate that as much as 20-30 per cent of the population under 25 is now Muslim. The streets, the traditional haunt of younger people, now belong to Muslim youths. In France, the phrase "les jeunes" is a politically correct way of referring to young Muslims.

Given current birth rates, it is not impossible that in 25 years France will have a Muslim majority. The consequences are dynamic: is it possible that secular France might become an Islamic state? http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/personal-view/3601901/Is-France-on-the-way-to-becoming-an-Islamic-state.html

follow the law of the land you are in. if you don't like it then go back home.

very simple.

Lagosboy:

If only people will take away their religious bias and look at issues objectively.

First it was the banning of hijabs in schools and government buldings , when they did not acheive their aims now it is banning of burqa in totality. France is a "democracy" and people should have the ability to put on what they want. For goodness sake a woman covered up is termed offensive and a half naked woman walking on the streets is termed cool.

Someone talked of emigration, there are millions of muslims born and bred in France and have no other homes except France. They arent like al we runaways from naija. These people are part and parcle of France and it is up to France to integrate them into the French society and not make them feel disenfranchised like what they are doing right now.

People talked of degradation to women , how is it degrading for a woman who chooses what to wear herself. Who is forcing a grown up woman in France to wear the burqa? No one forced her except herself. Same arguement ws used for the hijab and thousands of women use the hijab in France as a sign of their faith without being forced by no one.

Someone talked of Saudi arabia,Saudi is not a "democracy " remember!!

At a time when real issues should be discussed people are formenting trouble again over a piece of cloth.

The French are not smart in the least, such nonsense can never happen in the UK and with Obama in the US

In this day of indiscriminate terrorism,every country should do what they have to do to keep their citizens safe.
I am also fearful of a burqua clad individual walking behind me in a store.
It could be anybody.
It could be a man,a rapist,a hardened criminal.
We ought to see the people around us.
Didn't you hear the story of a male criminal in the UK who went around in a burqua.
Burqua lovers should stay indoors or move to places where those things are tolerated.
Personally the things scare me.
Imagine seeing that at night
why a woman would walk around covered in a tent beats me but what choices do many of them have?

$osisi:

In this day of indiscriminate terrorism,every country should do what they have to do to keep their citizens safe.
I am also fearful of a burqua clad individual walking behind me in a store.
It could be anybody.
It could be a man,a rapist,a hardened criminal.
We ought to see the people around us.
Didn't you hear the story of a male criminal in the UK who went around in a burqua.
Burqua lovers should stay indoors or move to places where those things are tolerated.
Personally the things scare me.
Imagine seeing that at night
why a woman would walk around covered in a tent beats me but what choices do many of them have?

Madam osisi i am sure ur kidding with the boldened statement. In all the terrorist attacks around the world could you name just one that is related to the hijab or burqa. This is just plain islamohobia.
The same way a bikini cladded woman on the street terrorises me is the same way some of you might not be comfortable with the burqa but what has someone elses dress got to do with you to be honest if not busy body

Of course the womenhave choices, who forces a french woman/citizen/born and bred in france to wear the birqa if not her personal conviction. None of my family members wear the niqaab or burqa but i see nothing wrong in it if it is the conviction of the woman to wear it so let us let them be.

Lagosboy.

One of the terrorist that attacked in the UK escaped wearing a Burqa from head to toe. I believe he fled to somalia or something.

Since when is 30 % a majority of any kind? If 30% is a majority as you want to slyly claim then this law will not be passed, because the majority of french people are against it.

France has the right to do whatever they want
France can go ahead and eject muslims or destroy churches, it dont bother me!

ElRazur:

Lagosboy.

One of the terrorist that attacked in the UK escaped wearing a Burqa from head to toe. I believe he fled to somalia or something.

There's another Muslim guy that robbed a store in the UK at gun point wearing a hijab
Anybody can hide under them things

tunku:

Since when is 30 % a majority of any kind? If 30% is a majority as you want to slyly claim then this law will not be passed, because the majority of french people are against it.

My post never said 30% is a majority , it just highlights the complexities and untold story of the French society and an impending majority in the nxt 25 years hence the supression or repression of islamic religious symbols.

ElRazur:

Lagosboy.

One of the terrorist that attacked in the UK escaped wearing a Burqa from head to toe. I believe he fled to somalia or something.

Of course i am aware of Osman hamdan who fled throough dover covered. What i amtalking about is a resultant link between terrorism and burqa. No terrorist would go to carry out an attack using a burqa , in fact those guys will never wear a beard and the intelliegence officers i bet know what they look out for and definately not burqa or hijab. It is just mere islamophobia the linking of burqa to terrorism.

$osisi:

There's another Muslim guy that robbed a store in the UK at gun point wearing a hijab
Anybody can hide under them things

Madam osisi whats the proof he his muslim and why does anyone need to wear a hijab to rob a store at gun point

What of all the many thousands that wear the niqaab in the UK , why are they not all causing troubles with it. You cannot simply take isolated cases and make a judgement out of it.

MrCrackles:

France has the right to do whatever they want
France can go ahead and eject muslims or destroy churches, it dont bother me!

Bro they have a right to do woteva but these are french citizens we are talking about not foreigners they are french born and bred who only simply want to practise their faith in woteva capacity they want. The society preaches religious freedom but it doesnt apply to islam. France is supposed to be a "democarcy"

@Lagos boy

What if a white person is born in Saudi Arabia? Should she dress on their beach the way she would in Europe or should she be forced to wear a Burqa?

sage:

@Lagos boy

What if a white person is born in Saudi Arabia? Should she dress on their beach the way she would in Europe or should she be forced to wear a Burqa?

he'll carefully dodge the question.
Should a French woman walk down the street in Saudi with a halter top?
They demand equal rights and can't accord others the same rights.
Hypocrites!

sage:

@Lagos boy

What if a white person is born in Saudi Arabia? Should she dress on their beach the way she would in Europe or should she be forced to wear a Burqa?

  Gbam, gbam and gbam!!!

When in Rome do as the Romans do, it is their country and the can ban or legalize anything they want.

JeSoul:


Gbam, gbam and gbam!!!

When in Rome do as the Romans do, it is their country and the can ban or legalize anything they want.

exactly! it is their country. they can always move back home. not too hard to do.

Lagosboy:


Madam osisi whats the proof he his muslim and why does anyone need to wear a hijab to rob a store at gun point
What of all the many thousands that wear the niqaab in the UK , why are they not all causing troubles with it. You cannot simply take isolated cases and make a judgement out of it.

Two men robbed the Bank of American branch inside the ShopRite in the Port Richmond section in the late morning today, then fled. When Police Sergeant Steven Liczbinski, 40, confronted them about 15 minutes later, they shot him three times with an AK-47 and he died soon after. Other police officers chased the two men and killed one of them, Howard Cain. The police also searched a wooded area for another man and a woman connected to the bank robbery. According to an Associated Press report, "The man was described as black, stocky and wearing a white hospital mask. He had shoulder-length dreadlocks, but Little said officers cautioned that that could be wig. The woman, whose race was not known, was dressed in a head-to-toe light brown robe." Another report described the woman wearing "Muslim-type garb."


Comment: There is no reason to assume that the person in burqa is actually a woman. (May 3, 2008) May 5, 2008 update: Indeed, that person was a man. Here are more details of the crime: Two of the robbers, Howard Cain and Eric DeShawn Floyd,

donned Muslim women's clothes - a hijab covering their heads; long dresses, called an abaya; and face veils, called nik-ab - to prevent detection," while Lavon Warner wore a dreadlock wig and dust mask." Then, the trio marched into the bank, and Sgt. Liczbinski responded to the bank robbery alarm at 11:26 a.m. The trio hopped in a blue Jeep Liberty. Hearing flash information about the Jeep, Liczbinski chased the vehicle, which stopped twice before hitting a pole. Cain jumped out and fired the high-powered SKS assault rifle five times at the officer, hitting his left trunk and leaving him in a pool of blood, at Schiller and Almond streets.

May 6, 2008 update: Cain is a Muslim and perhaps Floyd too.