@Thief of hearts

i'm sure what I did to offend you.  anything i say is of my own experience,i can't speak on anyone else's behalf.  my problem stems from the fact that without any knowledge of how to deal with their hair, most black women have been led to believe that anything 'unnatural' is better.  there isn't any other race in this world that feels cursed in this way.  i think anything we do should be an option, not a compulsion.

@Oyinda
i use carrier bags for treatments too!

@Tatase 
that's how my hair looked when I transitioned!  the only thing I wonder is do you get a lot of breakage? a lot of people who treat hair that's part relaxed, part natural in the same way find it breaks at the point between two textures.

@FL Gator

sorry I missed your question.  I'm glad someone was on here to alert me, thank god for the NL police  .
*i wash my hair with a shampoo bar I buy online from a ghanaian lady in the UK where I live www.akuawood.co.uk .  if i can't find/afford that, i use dr bronner's castille soap http://www.drbronner.com/DBMS/LS.htm
*i condition with aubrey organic conditioner, sometime with pure mayonnaise.  sometimes I add yogurt or olive oil, but these extras rarely happen these days. http://www.aubreyorganicsuk.co.uk/ .  its not cheap, but lasts (for me) a very long time.
*i use either shea butter, castor oil or a blend of the two with aloe vera gel and any other ingredients I have about. 

i've found natural/natural based products, with no silicones, parabens or petro-chemicals work best for me.   a lot of 'black' products are full of these ingredients with add a false shine, but i find they strangle my hair and make it hard.  i'd rather have fluffy, soft hair than shiny, greasy hair.

Lita:


@Tatase 
that's how my hair looked when I transitioned!  the only thing I wonder is do you get a lot of breakage? a lot of people who treat hair that's part relaxed, part natural in the same way find it breaks at the point between two textures.
 

i've found natural/natural based products, with no silicones, parabens or petro-chemicals work best for me.   a lot of 'black' products are full of these ingredients with add a false shine, but i find they strangle my hair and make it hard.  i'd rather have fluffy, soft hair than shiny, greasy hair.

I'm not transitioning, I transitioned for 8 months 2 yrs ago and then realized that I'm not hair talented enough to go natural once I felt my actual natural hair. I relax my hair usually every 8-10 weeks to minimize overprocessing. But my hair is somewhat relaxer-resistant so it comes out somewhere between texlaxed and relaxed (more relaxed than texlaxed though). My hair just looks like the girl's in the picture when I airdry without leave-ins and tying down (as I described in the method somewhere above yesterday) and then it breaks because its so tangled. With the new method and moisturizing twice a day, I'm not having much of a problem with breakage at all.

I agree about the petrochemicals (mineral oil particularly), I find they cause breakage. I've found no real problems with parabens but I've heard they're bad so I try to avoid them when possible. Silicone (as in hair serums/polishers/glossers) I actually like, I think it smooths the cuticle of the hair and improves the appearance of split ends and reduces frizz (for me anyway), but I only use those products on wet hair on wash days about 2ce a week, so its not an everyday thing at all.

I didn't really explain much, sorry- silicones aren't bad in themselves, more that I try to use mild shampoos (Sulfate free) which do not remove silicones, leading to build up.  I'm sure they are actually good for relaxed hair as they coat the strand (I believe). They're in so many conditioners, so they can be quite hard to avoid.

I also use baking soda in my shampoo once in a while to remove all build up, and if my hair's feeling tangly I use a heavily diluted apple cider vinegar to rinse my hair. Sounds weird, but it makes my hair extremely smooth.

As far as parabens, they're supposed to be carcinogenic.  I'm not greatly bothered by them, but they tend to not to appear in the products I use anyway. 

Lita:

@Thief of hearts

i'm sure what I did to offend you.  anything i say is of my own experience,i can't speak on anyone else's behalf.  my problem stems from the fact that without any knowledge of how to deal with their hair, most black women have been led to believe that anything 'unnatural' is better.  there isn't any other race in this world that feels cursed in this way.  i think anything we do should be an option, not a compulsion.

No one asked for a sermon however. The topic simply states "recommend hair products", not "lets whine about racial issues and why black women supposedly want to look like Europeans" blah blah.
I could have easily reported you for going offtopic. Natural nazis annoy me. There are quite a number of threads about natural hair that your rant would have been appreciated. This one merely wanted recommendations for products. Stick to the topic. Thanks

Too much ramblings.

Cool, the homosexuals have arrived.

good to know.  i'm new to NL, spotted the thread, put in my opinion and more questions were asked.  i'm not sure how its off topic to state my opinion that most products won't produce magical results and that a change of method is possibly advisable.

at the end of it all, you finally suggested some products didnt you?

There you go.

Lita:

I didn't really explain much, sorry- silicones aren't bad in themselves, more that I try to use mild shampoos (Sulfate free) which do not remove silicones, leading to build up.  I'm sure they are actually good for relaxed hair as they coat the strand (I believe). They're in so many conditioners, so they can be quite hard to avoid.

I also use baking soda in my shampoo once in a while to remove all build up, and if my hair's feeling tangly I use a heavily diluted apple cider vinegar to rinse my hair. Sounds weird, but it makes my hair extremely smooth.

As far as parabens, they're supposed to be carcinogenic.  I'm not greatly bothered by them, but they tend to not to appear in the products I use anyway. 

I used to do oil rinsing with evoo but I recently happened on the dilute apple cider vinegar rinses and I do them too and vastly prefer them, the oil rinsing made the hair a little limp but the ACV definitely helps give a smoother finish and I think helps with breakage too especially for pple like me who are relaxed which can make hair alkaline and more prone to breakage, I think the ACV also neutralizes the hair or something (maybe I'm making that up but it makes sense to me and I think I saw it somewhere and I do notice less breakage).

As for shampooing I go periods where I try to avoid the sulfates (SLS in particular) too mostly because they definitely contribute to that straw super dry and frizzy look for me, so I like the Body Shop's Honey shampoo for chemically-treated/damaged hair or for claryfying  I use Nexxus Aloe Rid which is also sulphate free. The only problem I have with sulphate-free shampoos is that they don't lather as well as the ones with the SLS. So you tend to use more of them in my opinion than you do with regular SLS shampoo. Do you find that baking soda helps with that?

well lather doesn't mean cleaning. its a comforting thing though, and luckily the shampoo bar i use lathers enough for me to feel happy when i wash. i don't find that baking soda increases the lathering much though, but you only need a little. Sufate-containing shampoos make my hair like straw too, and a lot harder to work with.

Tatase

Most moisturizer shampoo without SLS

http://beautyofnewyork.com/shopping/product_view.php?itemCode=0IW4300107KX0345

green and red label of creme of nature (old formula), the new formula is the orange crap with SLS and other nonsense.

It's discontinued(in favor for the orange one ) but I and many others get it from this site.

Hope that helps.

this ACV rinse thing. i want to try it. but how do u do it? Lita & tatase.
how do you dilute it? how much to each part of water?  and do u use it? do u just pour it over your head and it washes away the build up? 

@Lita:
Wait are you using the Baking Soda to clarify. I mean I guess what I'm asking is: what does the Baking Soda do? And do you use it everytime you wash?

@ThiefOfHearts:

I used to get the CON detangling shampoo too till they turned it into the orange and yellow bottle. I didn't even know you could still get it. Thanks for letting me know. I'll go back to it once my Honey Shampoo is finished. Much as I love the Body Shop one, the CON is definitely cheaper and I used to really like it.

@ oyinda

I do the ACV rinse at the last stage after I finished washing and deep conditioning etc as my final rinse. (Some people do it right after shampooing b4 conditioning but because to me I think since the ACV smooths the cuticle of the hair, it might make absorbing conditioner more difficult). My mixture is 3 Tablespoons of ACV to 1 cup of water. So you can multiply that depending on how much water you're using. Some people do another rinse with plain water after the ACV rinse but I don't. Don't worry your hair won't smell vinegary once its dry.

Personally I don't use it to clarify even though I'm sure it takes care of build up too (to really get rid of build up I use Nexxus Aloe Rid like I said or at a pinch I might use an SLS shampoo like Suave which really strips the ish out of the hair). For me ACV rinses reduce tangling, make the hair look smoother and shinier (because it closes the cuticle), and that's why I do it. Also it returns the hair to its normal acidic state which means the hair is less stressed and less likely to break.

You're welcome

Baking soa is usually used to clarify. Clarifying is usually done if

1. you've used alot of products and you want to start fresh/rid your strands of grime so products can penetrate better
2. before and after braids/weaves/cornrows, etc

Most people recommend clarifying at least once a month. That's what I do esp since I tend to do cornrows often but I just use a clarifying shampoo. Dont have the patience for mixing baking soda etc.

ACV rinses are cool (great for making hair shine,  porosity issues etc, BTW it also makes a great toner for the face)

Instead of acv rinses though, for porosity issues, I use

@thief of hearts
what is porosity in relation to hair? does hair become more porous, and if so, what are the disadvantages? i too used to love the creme of nature shampoo, but it seemed to coat my hair. not necessarily a problem in itself, but my hair's best when its really clear of all residue. used to be a really good, widely available buy, shame they changed the formula.

@ Oyinda
i do the same as Tatase- dilute by the same amount, but i tend to rinse it briefly out of my hair, and then apply conditioner. it makes such a difference as far as tangles in my hair. i'm not sure that it does clarify, though a lot of people use it for that purpose.

if porosity level is high, then your hair wont hold moisture or hair products well

This is a very helpful article about it and how to test your hair

http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/367189/hair_porosity_help_for_dry_damaged.html?cat=69

The red label CON does coat after a while but if you clrify once a month then it should be fine

@ all, so do u just pour the acv mix onto ur hair to rinse, or do u scrub ur scalp in the process (since it's supposed to remove buildup)?

i just pour it on my hair as i don't use it for build up. i've occasionally let it pour through my scalp as its supposed to be good for the skin too, but my main purpose is to smooth the hair cuticles and get the pH balance back to normal. I usually rinse it out a little, and then apply conditioner. since using a cheap soap as shampoo, i do this at every wash. if i had my favoured shampoo, i'd do it once a month.

thief of hearts THANK YOU OH!!

so lita. . . if my hair uis not natural it wont grow abi? na wa oh. im not interested in carrying afro around town or struggling with comb every morning. Ive had enough of that in my childhood thnks i know enough people who have thier hair 'natural' and its always last minute hair straightening when its time for parties or the permanent afro look. thank you very much.

i know natural is beautifull but i also do know that variety is the spice of life. So please please stop recommending wierd sites for all those african american power black bullshit. imagine someone writing a blog bout how relaxing your hair invites the devil into you or some rubbish like that. i dont need afro hair to make me natural i dont fix nails too so there! recommend your product and move on. sheesh!

DEAR ALL SOS!!
my hair is growning small small the back is healthy and grows long but the front cuts once in a while and now the front is half the length of the back and my hair is not that full either. i want to use my natural hair but because of that theres nothing to do with it. i have to admit i dnt take care of it so much when i have it natural. sometimes i dnt tie it in the night. but now ive gotten better and try to moistorise it a lot. sometimes i wish i can go back to sec school so i could do thread!! i mostly do short weaves so i dnt brush to much and cut my hair and i leave it only for 3 weeks.

are they any tips you can goive me to make the front part grow and to make it fuller?
i use all olive hair products including relaxer. i hate the smell of the carrot oil and all that so i hardly use them.
i hate the smell of the virgin cream is that my only hope? any other cremes to grow hair?

wash your hair more often waterworks and dont use too many products at once, it smothers the follicles from growing

Name the type of products you use.

@waterworks
i'm glad we've both found what works for us.

@ waterworks,
Castor oil (yes the laxative kind they sell in pharmacies) makes your hair (appear and feel) thicker and helps growth (along with other good hair practices*) and its one of the few oils that is ok to use on the scalp. I used it for a while and my hair really grew and was thicker but then I stopped out of laziness and random reasons. Now I'm back to it again, though.

You only need to use a little each time you moisturize your hair i.e. use it sparingly i.e. don't saturate your hair with it, if not it'll weigh your hair down. Use your hair moisturizer first, then take a little castor oil, rub it between your palms and smooth it down your hair, focusing on the ends and the relaxed parts (although its fine to use it on the "due" parts and the scalp too).

*By the way good hair practices include things such as washing your hair more often, not being rough with wet hair, not relaxing your hair too often (every 8+ weeks is good but if that's too big an interval for you don't relax your hair more frequently than every 6 weeks), if you use gel stop or at least don't be combing you gelled hair because that breaks hair etc etc

I cosign Tatase's tips

@Tatase/Waterworks

when i used to relax, i could never leave it is long as eight weeks, or i would get breakage (at the line where the new hair and the permed hair met). as long as you're only relaxing only new growth, and not blowdrying (i used to roller set and then wrap at night) or doing anything else too stressful, i reckon it should be fine.

Lita:

@Tatase/Waterworks

when i used to relax, i could never leave it is long as eight weeks, or i would get breakage (at the line where the new hair and the permed hair met). as long as you're only relaxing only new growth, and not blowdrying (i used to roller set and then wrap at night) or doing anything else too stressful, i reckon it should be fine.

You'll get breakage at the line btwn new growth and relaxed hair if 1.) your new growth is not moisturized properly. 2.) you are rough with your hair when combing e.g. through blowdrying to make everything uniformly straight. 3.) you're manipulating your hair too much when wet e.g. again with blow drying or combing too much etc.

I'm about 13 weeks post-relaxer right now (usually I don't go more than 8-10 but I've been busy/lazy/not really feeling the due-ness this time) and usually by now I'll be experiencing lots of breakage but airdrying and using leave-ins and tying my hair down with the scarf method during the airdrying process (I've talked about it on this thread and you can look it up on youtube) has kept my new growth really soft and manageable and I tend to have stubborn hair that is really kinkyand resistant (even my relaxed parts aren't stick straight). Also because I know my demarcation is delicate, I'm mostly finger-combing so that I can work through tangles with my fingers gently, instead of pulling them through and breaking my hair with a comb.

The reason why its so important to stretch your relaxers as long as possible if you want thick hair is because the longer your new growth, the easier it will be for you/your stylist to not overprocess your hair by re-relaxing already relaxed parts which causes damage and thins out and weakens the hair resulting in breakage.

I usually relax around 12-14 weeks. I started that this year

what relaxer do you use, Tatase

In Naij, I use the ORS Olive Oil No-Lye Relaxer; in the US if a (trusted) friend is doing it for me, I use Optimum Anti-Breakage No-Lye Relaxer; if I'm doing it at a salon in the US, then I use Affirm Fiberguard Lye Relaxer.

What about you, what do you use?

Which do you prefer of the 3?

Doesnt No Lye dry out your hair?

I used to use Motions now Im on Mizani Butter Blends which is good for me cos it doesnt make my hair bones straight which I dont need seeing that I have fine strands

Oh everyone has good things to say about Mizani, I've never used it though.

It depends. I've had good and bad experiences with all 3 depending on who's doing the application. I like Affirm best but I feel like it really swells the cuticle of my hair and makes it really poofy somehow but I don't mind this too much because it's usually fine after my 1st post-relaxer wash. Of the No-Lyes, they're both good though the ORS is much much easier to find in Naij than the specific Optimum I like. I think i prefer the Optimum because it leaves my hair with more body than the ORS.

No-lye can be harsh on hair (even though it's nice for sensitive scalps) and it definitely processes the hair more than the lye kind. But the wash after any relaxer (like 5 days later), I use a chelating shampoo (a heavy duty clarifyer) like Nexxus Aloe Ridd, to get rid of any -OH deposits which give the hair that dry, brittle feeling (which leads to breakage). And then because any relaxer breaks protein bonds and the hair structure is delicate post-relaxer, I fortify the hair with a heavy protein treatment like Aphogee 2-step treatment or a lighter protein like Nexxus emergencee (if the night before the wash I slept with Joico K-Pak DPR (because I have it, I won't be re-buying, I prefer Aphogee 2-minute and its cheaper) or Aphogee 2-minute and a shower cap), then I deep condition for a while.

I use Aphogee 2 min or Joico K-Pak protein right after the relaxer is rinsed off, helps build up what the relaxer broke down.

Fine strands suck. Oh well. could be worse I guess.

@ Thief of Hearts:

Aphogee 2-minute or Joico K-Pak, which do you prefer? I recently got the Joico and I have to admit, I'm a little underwhelmed. I got it because everyone says such nice things about it. But to me it's pricy and I'm kind of disappointed (especially since the Aphogee is so much cheaper and IMHO much better). Maybe if I use it for a while, I'll see what the hype is about. What's your experience with the Joico?