Trinity

Not a word found in the bible but a term used to simplify the Godhead in the bible. Jesus recognized 3 persons that are important- the father, the son and the HG. And the bible also tells us that they are one. In the beginning we understand that God the father used the word let us. How could this be, could it be that God is not one as the bible says.

It is the path of wisdom
Same way it was for man that the woman was taken out of man and the two remains as one, so it is with the son and HS with the father. Wisdom presented 3 personalities in the Godhead to us in redemption

Roles
The father proposes. The son arranges the order of things. The HS accomplishes it (Job 26:5, Ps 104:29). The father approves it (it is good). The father is not complete as Godhead without the son and the spirit. The spirit is an aspect of Godhead formed into a whole. The HS is the power of God. The word is an aspect of Godhead formed into a whole prov 28:22-23.the word is the wisdom of God. The father is the head; both the HS and son are subject to the father and all the 3 of them are one



The father is always in need of companion
Both the spirit and the son cannot leave him at the same time. When one is on assignment the other stays with him. When jesus was sent, both the father and the spirit were together Isaiah 48:16. Before the HS was released to commence his ministry, Jesus had to go to the father. In the beginning when the HS was hovering the face of the sea, the son was with the father Gen 1:2, prov 8:30, john 1:1,3


The ministry of HS
Monitoring and ensuring what God has set in place
There is no difference between OT & NT manifestations of HS but some things are different- God was far away in OT but very near in NT, so most things were known in minute part in OT but in NT we are in the kingdom and we know things better. However for the HS, it doesnt matter if God was far away or near, it does its work (people of faith still received Christ even before he came, Hebrews11:23-26) thereby producing fruit. But the closeness to God matters to man- hope, assurance of the promises of God, fulfillment of Gods promises. In the NT our spirits were recreated, it became alive, able to relate with God. The HS also came to dwell in us.

Adapted from www.christianlifeissues.com

Trinity

Not a word found in the bible but a term used to simplify the Godhead in the bible. Jesus recognized 3 persons that are important- the father, the son and the HG. And the bible also tells us that they are one. In the beginning we understand that God the father used the word let us. How could this be, could it be that God is not one as the bible says.

Once there was nothing at all but God, then God made Wisdom-the Word from His own Spirit, God is a Spirit,
just like much later He made Eve from Adam's rib.

God was now two persons, and just as Eve was made from Adam and are one flesh,
the word was made from God's spirit, and are one spirit-one God.

The Word, being made of God's Spirit is Eternal, just like God is Eternal, God is a spirit.
The word as a person had a beginning, but as God's spirit has always existed.

About two thousand years ago Jesus Christ became the third person in God,
the son of God because God fathered Him, and God because He is the Word.






1Jn 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
Deu 6:4 Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:
Joh 10:30 I and my Father are one.

The Father, the Son, and the Holy spirit are one, one Spirit, one God.






Mat 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

Baptizing them in the name of God.

Powerful rev but dint quite understand somethings

Trinity

Not a word found in the bible but a term used to simplify the Godhead in the bible. Jesus recognized 3 persons that are important- the father, the son and the HG. And the bible also tells us that they are one. In the beginning we understand that God the father used the word let us. How could this be, could it be that God is not one as the bible says.

We do know God as the self existing one. The one with all the power, the indescribable, majestic in glory. However these are not enough to describe a person, not in our own world. In the previous world, there is doubt about who God is, whether he even exists but in our world, God is well defined and his full nature is expressed. He is love and questioning his existence is not an option. Joel 2:28

johnw74:

Once there was nothing at all but God, then God made Wisdom-the Word from His own Spirit, God is a Spirit,
just like much later He made Eve from Adam's rib.

God was now two persons, and just as Eve was made from Adam and are one flesh,
the word was made from God's spirit, and are one spirit-one God.

The Word, being made of God's Spirit is Eternal, just like God is Eternal, God is a spirit.
The word as a person had a beginning, but as God's spirit has always existed.

About two thousand years ago Jesus Christ became the third person in God,
the son of God because God fathered Him, and God because He is the Word.






1Jn 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
Deu 6:4 Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:
Joh 10:30 I and my Father are one.

The Father, the Son, and the Holy spirit are one, one Spirit, one God.






Mat 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

Baptizing them in the name of God.

The father, Jesus(word- john 1:14) and the holyspirit are ONE.


I know that the case of trinity has been a confused case to so many people, but looking at it from all angles of the scriptures you will discover that it is very simple to understand.


Now, to start with this, you have to know, that "The father", "Son" and "The holyspirit" are CONCEPTS OF REDEMPTION. They are not different personalities, they are one person REVEALING himself in these different ways, and the ONLY purpose for revealing himself in this way is for the purpose of man's redemption.

If there was no need for redemption, there wouldn't be the MANIFESTATION of anything like Jesus or holspirit, but it doesn't mean that they started to exist at the time of their manifestation. No, they were GOD as ONE in the beginning.

Now, I will used the below example to explain to you better.

1. I am God(just an example)

2. Before I created the world, I, God was a spirit, the Jesus and the holyspirit which you know now, were also a spirit with me, with no flesh, not visible, not restricted to a place(we were everywhere). We all existed THEN AS ONE SPIRIT.

3. At the time of creation, when I said "Come let us make man in our own image." I wasn't calling different persons, because the I, Jesus and the holyspirit you know now, were ONE spirit and not a human being and beside I haven't created anybody. I was calling my ENTIRE SPIRIT IN CONCENTRATION.

4 Before I created the world I never intended to take myself out of myself, in the person of the Jesus and the holy spirit you know.

5. Finally, the reason why I had to take myself out of myself(a spirit), was because of man's redemption.

6. I created man and gave man the dominion over the earth and it's inhabitants,(I gave all to them, not having any because I wanted them to take care of it all and not me taking care of the earth) but the devil deceived them, which made them to disobey me. And through them damnation came into humanity.

7. And because of that, nobody had what it will take to deliver others from damnation, because the person has to deliver himself first, before delivering others.

8. And for the person to deliver himself he has to pay for the wages of his OWN ETERNAL SiNS FIRST, which is ETERNAL DEATH IN HELL. No way!

9. Now, I coming by myself, was the only way to help my people.

9. And because of that, I decided to take my self out of MYSELF, by making an incarnate son of myself, which you now know as the person of Jesus. See john 1:1 and 14.

10. The incarnate son of myself which I made to be born with no sexual consent, and was as well made in a SINLESS nature, was PART of me but in flesh, that was just a way to help you(mankind) by laying on my flesh the ETERNTAL SINS of the whole world of ETERNITY, and taking it's ETERNAL punishment COMPRESSED IN 3 DAYS(time). Why? Because I am an ETERNAL BEING.

11 And when the incarnate son of myself was in flesh, I was still one with that incarnate son of myself, because without him I am INCOMPLETE, because he WAS IN ME as ONE until the need of man's REDEMPTION came, which in other words means, that without the incarnate son of myself(flesh), I am powerless to save man from their eternal damnation. Because the case of redemption was a LEGAL case where JUSTICE is considered, ALL in order. And the rule for the justice is this; "MAN , THROUGH SIN(adam) LOST THE DOMINION, MAN WITH A SINLESS NATURE, BUT DYING FOR THE SINS OF OTHERS, RECOVERS THE DOMINION FOR ALL". I needed to come in a sinless nature so that I wouldn't be under the captivity of the devil(because I am his creator) and as such, wouldn't be any need to deliver myself first before delivering others, otherwise messes up the whole way.

12. Does it mean that I can't deliver man by any other means? No, not that, because I am the almighty.

13. I am a God of JUSTICE. And I playing injustice is a disappointment to my personality. And the only way to play Justice is to make a SINLESS man out of myself, who will take the punishment of the eternal sins of other(because I am an eternal being). Therefore, restoring the dominion to humanity, because I have been punished for anything(eternal sin) that will make their dominion to be taken away from them by the devil

14. And it worked!

15. But why do I have to go all this way to save them, disregarding my personality? Because, I really LOVE them SO MUCH, and to prove it I had to save them AT ALL COST.

16. When Jesus(my son) was about to go, he promised the holyspirit to come. And that was also me. In the book of john, I told you through my incarnate son of myself the need for the holyspirit to come, so that he can dwell with you FOREVER.



WE ARE ONE, REVEALED IN DIFFERENT DIMENSION!!!!!!

Read through someone's write-up, couldn't help but laughed
One thing we need to understand is this; heavenly language was formed with heavenly thought which is far different from that of earth. Check where angels spoke with men in the bible, you would understand that their reasoning is always some steps ahead of ours; So it is possible for an angel to relate to Moses and Moses getting it as God talking to Himself as if He is talking to other equals.

if u critically examine the idea of trinity from the Angle of Jesus HAVING a God , u will realize this teaching is not scriptural and doesnt make any sense

@CAPTIVATOR, Jesus while on earth was the son of man and all men are subject to the Almighty God. The bible says the word becme flesh and dwell among us. Flesh is different from the body, flesh is a component of the soul. The second person in trinity dwelling in the son of man; and that made him the son of God because the person of God is in him, and that made him one with God.

oluminnic:
@CAPTIVATOR, Jesus while on earth was the son of man and all men are subject to the Almighty God. The bible says the word becme flesh and dwell among us. Flesh is different from the body, flesh is a component of the soul. The second person in trinity dwelling in the son of man; and that made him the son of God because the person of God is in him, and that made him one with God.

see what u have to go through to deny a simple truth . even in heaven, Jesus have a God (Revelation 3:12]

"
All who are victorious will become pillars in the Temple of my God , and they will never have to leave it. And I will write on them the name of my God , and they will be citizens in the city of my God--the new Jerusalem that comes down from heaven from my God. ..
"

Jesus while on earth was the son of man Mark 10:35 and all men are subject to the Almighty God. The bible says the word becme flesh and dwell among us John 1:14. Flesh is different from the body, flesh is a component of the soul. The second person in trinity dwelling in the son of man; and that made him the son of God because the person of God is in him, and that made him one with God John 10:30.

Jesus refers to himself as the son of man not the son of Adam because Adam is not a name but a title and that is why Jesus is the second Adam. His Adamic spirit is just like that of the first Adam which is able to receive from God Luke 2:52 Bible says Jesus grew in wisdom. He became so engrossed with the law that the word of God could dwell in him in all its richness.

Jesus was the real son of the first couple Genesis 3:15 and God could see Jesus even before man fell, no wonder He died before the foundation of the world 1 Peter 1:18-20, Rev 13:8

The garden experience never ended with the first Adam, he was chased away but his true offspring, the last Adam, completed it (before a plantain tree loses its essence it is already replaced) Example of the life of the last Adam on earth was that of Mechizedek. Jesus came after the order of Melchizedek. The last Adam came and got the work of God completed

***another rev: the first serpent was friendly and extremely wise and even man felt comfortable in it/with it but its offspring became a good (best,only) hideout for lucifer and in it the prophesy Gen 3:15 is fulfilled

Wow! CAPTIVATOR, I love your line of reasoning but You need to understand these.
1. The woman was formed from the man. Both of them are one but the man is her Lord (Master, god)
2. Same way the Word and the HS were formed from Godhead for the sake of redemption. Both the word and the HS are subject to God(the Father).

oluminnic:
@CAPTIVATOR, Jesus while on earth was the son of man Mark 10:35 and all men are subject to the Almighty God. The bible says the word becme flesh and dwell among us John 1:14. Flesh is different from the body, flesh is a component of the soul. The second person in trinity dwelling in the son of man; and that made him the son of God because the person of God is in him, and that made him one with God John 10:30.

Jesus refers to himself as the son of man not the son of Adam because Adam is not a name but a title and that is why Jesus is the second Adam. His Adamic spirit is just like that of the first Adam which is able to receive from God Luke 2:52 Bible says Jesus grew in wisdom. He became so engrossed with the law that the word of God could dwell in him in all its richness.

Jesus was the real son of the first couple Genesis 3:15 and God could see Jesus even before man fell, no wonder He died before the foundation of the world 1 Peter 1:18-20, Rev 13:8

you keep shouting the bold, Jesus while on earth, and I showed evidence that even while in HEAVEN, Jesus have a God

Rev 3:12.

Jesus while on earth was the son of man Mark 10:35 and all men are subject to the Almighty God. The bible says the word becme flesh and dwell among us John 1:14. Flesh is different from the body, flesh is a component of the soul. The second person in trinity dwelling in the son of man; and that made him the son of God because the person of God is in him, and that made him one with God John 10:30.

Jesus refers to himself as the son of man not the son of Adam because Adam is not a name but a title and that is why Jesus is the second Adam. His Adamic spirit is just like that of the first Adam which is able to receive from God Luke 2:52 Bible says Jesus grew in wisdom. He became so engrossed with the law that the word of God could dwell in him in all its richness.

Jesus was the real son of the first couple Genesis 3:15 and God could see Jesus even before man fell, no wonder He died before the foundation of the world 1 Peter 1:18-20, Rev 13:8

The garden experience never ended with the first Adam, he was chased away but his true offspring, the last Adam, completed it (before a plantain tree loses its essence it is already replaced) Example of the life of the last Adam on earth was that of Mechizedek. Jesus came after the order of Melchizedek. The last Adam came and got the work of God completed

***another rev: the first serpent was friendly and extremely wise and even man felt comfortable in it/with it but its offspring became a good (best,only) hideout for lucifer and in it the prophesy Gen 3:15 is fulfilled

it is not befitting to the (majesty of)of God that He should beget a son.Glory be to Him! when he determines a matter, He only says to it,'BE' and it is.
(Holy Quran chapter Mary 19:35)

The similitude of Jesus before God is that of Adam;He created him from dust then said to him 'Be' and he was.
(holy Quran 3:59)

They do blaspheme who say:"God is christ,the son of mary."but said christ:"O children of isreal! worship God,my Lord and your lord."
(Holy Quran 5:75)

They do blaspheme who say :God is one of three in a trinity :for there is no god except one God
(Holy Quran 5-6)

Say thou ( O Muhammad to people) "I am but a man like you :it is revealed to me by inspiration, that your God is one God,so stand true to him, and ask for his forgiveness "And woe to those who join gods with God.
(Holy Quran 41:6)

these is the Truth you are seeking for if you understand but as usual arrogance will never let you to understand. that is why God said in the Holy Quran
DEAF DUMB AND BLIND THEY WILL NOT RETURN(TO THE PATH)
(HOLY QURAN 2:18)

Wow! mightymama. Nice having you
What Quran said was the inspiration of a man (he said so himself) Quran 41:6
Mightymama, what about your own inspiration. Have you ever thought of that
God bless you

Jesus while on earth was the son of man Mark 10:35 and all men are subject to the Almighty God. The bible says the word becme flesh and dwell among us John 1:14. Flesh is different from the body, flesh is a component of the soul. The second person in trinity dwelling in the son of man; and that made him the son of God because the person of God is in him, and that made him one with God John 10:30.

Jesus refers to himself as the son of man not the son of Adam because Adam is not a name but a title and that is why Jesus is the second Adam. His Adamic spirit is just like that of the first Adam which is able to receive from God Luke 2:52 Bible says Jesus grew in wisdom. He became so engrossed with the law that the word of God could dwell in him in all its richness.

Jesus was the real son of the first couple Genesis 3:15 and God could see Jesus even before man fell, no wonder He died before the foundation of the world 1 Peter 1:18-20, Rev 13:8

The garden experience never ended with the first Adam, he was chased away but his true offspring, the last Adam, completed it (before a plantain tree loses its essence it is already replaced) Example of the life of the last Adam on earth was that of Mechizedek. Jesus came after the order of Melchizedek. The last Adam came and got the work of God completed

***another rev: the first serpent was friendly and extremely wise and even man felt comfortable in it/with it but its offspring became a good (best,only) hideout for lucifer and in it the prophesy Gen 3:15 is fulfilled

oluminnic:
Trinity

Not a word found in the bible but a term used to simplify the Godhead in the bible. Jesus recognized 3 persons that are important- the father, the son and the HG. And the bible also tells us that they are one. In the beginning we understand that God the father used the word let us. How could this be, could it be that God is not one as the bible says.

someone who does not know what the trinity is would like to know what it is and what Godhead is. This will help him or she to know if a term(not in the bible) can be used to, and if indeed it really simplifies the Godhead.

so can you tell us
1. what is trinity?
2. what is Godhead?
3. where can we find Godhead in the bible, since you said trinity is not there?

Yes jesus did make mention of the father , the son, and the holy spirit, can you provide the scripture that said they are one?
what is the relationship between the father son and holy spirit?

It is the path of wisdom
Same way it was for man that the woman was taken out of man and the two remains as one, so it is with the son and HS with the father. Wisdom presented 3 personalities in the Godhead to us in redemption

So in the case of trinity, who was taken out of whom? who took it out?
what scripture can one use to surpport the bolded part?

Roles
in
The father proposes. The son arranges the order of things. The HS accomplishes it (Job 26:5, Ps 104:29). The father approves it (it is good). The father is not complete as Godhead without the son and the spirit. The spirit is an aspect of Godhead formed into a whole. The HS is the power of God. The word is an aspect of Godhead formed into a whole prov 28:22-23.the word is the wisdom of God. The father is the head; both the HS and son are subject to the father and all the 3 of them are one

This is now confusing, cus according to those who created the word trinity, this is what they said:

"According to this central mystery of some Christian faiths, there is only one God in three persons: while distinct from one another in their relations of origin (as theFourth Lateran Council declared, "it is the Father who generates, the Son who is begotten, and the Holy Spirit who proceeds" and in their relations with one another, they are stated to be one in all else, co-equal, co-eternal and consubstantial, and "each is God, whole and entire". Accordingly, the whole work of creation and grace is seen as a single operation common to all three divine persons, in which each shows forth what is proper to him in the Trinity, so that all things are "from the Father", "through the Son" and "in the Holy Spirit"."
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trinity

how can we align the bolded part of your comment with the bolded part of the words above?

The father is always in need of companion
Both the spirit and the son cannot leave him at the same time. When one is on assignment the other stays with him. When jesus was sent, both the father and the spirit were together Isaiah 48:16. Before the HS was released to commence his ministry, Jesus had to go to the father. In the beginning when the HS was hovering the face of the sea, the son was with the father Gen 1:2, prov 8:30, john 1:1,3

this is interesting!
when Jesus was baptized, what came like a dove to earth was not the real holy spirit right?
Or if it was the holy spirit, it quickly went back to the father after the incident?
what about the spirit jesus used to perform his powerful works, what about the spirit jesus gave to his disciples when he was on earth with them.? Can you shed more light on these?

The ministry of HS
Monitoring and ensuring what God has set in place
There is no difference between OT & NT manifestations of HS but some things are different- God was far away in OT but very near in NT, so most things were known in minute part in OT but in NT we are in the kingdom and we know things better. However for the HS, it doesnt matter if God was far away or near, it does its work (people of faith still received Christ even before he came, Hebrews11:23-26) thereby producing fruit. But the closeness to God matters to man- hope, assurance of the promises of God, fulfillment of Gods promises. In the NT our spirits were recreated, it became alive, able to relate with God. The HS also came to dwell in us.

wow! , I thought the trinity stated that the holy spirit is God, how come you say God was far away in the OT. Did God not show his hand in OT more than in the NT. did the holy spirit not be in people and give them power in the OT.?
I do not see a difference between the OT and NT, the scriptures is just one continous record or the word of God.

Adapted from www.christianlifeissues.com

will love to hear your own views.

promise101:


The father, Jesus(word- john 1:14) and the holyspirit are ONE.


I know that the case of trinity has been a confused case to so many people, but looking at it from all angles of the scriptures you will discover that it is very simple to understand.


Now, to start with this, you have to know, that "The father", "Son" and "The holyspirit" are CONCEPTS OF REDEMPTION. They are not different personalities, they are one person REVEALING himself in these different ways, and the ONLY purpose for revealing himself in this way is for the purpose of man's redemption.

If there was no need for redemption, there wouldn't be the MANIFESTATION of anything like Jesus or holspirit, but it doesn't mean that they started to exist at the time of their manifestation. No, they were GOD as ONE in the beginning.

Now, I will used the below example to explain to you better.

1. I am God(just an example)

2. Before I created the world, I, God was a spirit, the Jesus and the holyspirit which you know now, were also a spirit with me, with no flesh, not visible, not restricted to a place(we were everywhere). We all existed THEN AS ONE SPIRIT.

3. At the time of creation, when I said "Come let us make man in our own image." I wasn't calling different persons, because the I, Jesus and the holyspirit you know now, were ONE spirit and not a human being and beside I haven't created anybody. I was calling my ENTIRE SPIRIT IN CONCENTRATION.

4 Before I created the world I never intended to take myself out of myself, in the person of the Jesus and the holy spirit you know.

5. Finally, the reason why I had to take myself out of myself(a spirit), was because of man's redemption.

6. I created man and gave man the dominion over the earth and it's inhabitants,(I gave all to them, not having any because I wanted them to take care of it all and not me taking care of the earth) but the devil deceived them, which made them to disobey me. And through them damnation came into humanity.

7. And because of that, nobody had what it will take to deliver others from damnation, because the person has to deliver himself first, before delivering others.

8. And for the person to deliver himself he has to pay for the wages of his OWN ETERNAL SiNS FIRST, which is ETERNAL DEATH IN HELL. No way!

9. Now, I coming by myself, was the only way to help my people.

9. And because of that, I decided to take my self out of MYSELF, by making an incarnate son of myself, which you now know as the person of Jesus. See john 1:1 and 14.

10. The incarnate son of myself which I made to be born with no sexual consent, and was as well made in a SINLESS nature, was PART of me but in flesh, that was just a way to help you(mankind) by laying on my flesh the ETERNTAL SINS of the whole world of ETERNITY, and taking it's ETERNAL punishment COMPRESSED IN 3 DAYS(time). Why? Because I am an ETERNAL BEING.

11 And when the incarnate son of myself was in flesh, I was still one with that incarnate son of myself, because without him I am INCOMPLETE, because he WAS IN ME as ONE until the need of man's REDEMPTION came, which in other words means, that without the incarnate son of myself(flesh), I am powerless to save man from their eternal damnation. Because the case of redemption was a LEGAL case where JUSTICE is considered, ALL in order. And the rule for the justice is this; "MAN , THROUGH SIN(adam) LOST THE DOMINION, MAN WITH A SINLESS NATURE, BUT DYING FOR THE SINS OF OTHERS, RECOVERS THE DOMINION FOR ALL". I needed to come in a sinless nature so that I wouldn't be under the captivity of the devil(because I am his creator) and as such, wouldn't be any need to deliver myself first before delivering others, otherwise messes up the whole way.

12. Does it mean that I can't deliver man by any other means? No, not that, because I am the almighty.

13. I am a God of JUSTICE. And I playing injustice is a disappointment to my personality. And the only way to play Justice is to make a SINLESS man out of myself, who will take the punishment of the eternal sins of other(because I am an eternal being). Therefore, restoring the dominion to humanity, because I have been punished for anything(eternal sin) that will make their dominion to be taken away from them by the devil

14. And it worked!

15. But why do I have to go all this way to save them, disregarding my personality? Because, I really LOVE them SO MUCH, and to prove it I had to save them AT ALL COST.

16. When Jesus(my son) was about to go, he promised the holyspirit to come. And that was also me. In the book of john, I told you through my incarnate son of myself the need for the holyspirit to come, so that he can dwell with you FOREVER.



WE ARE ONE, REVEALED IN DIFFERENT DIMENSION!!!!!!

@ bolded, now that is a different concept of trinity, this is why it is good to know the view of the individual who believes in trinity, cus your definition and concept is different froM the one the op layed down and also from the one the proponents of the word "trinity" gave.

will wait to see if other believers of trinity (with different concept) counter or surpport your concept, or if they will keep quiet!

@dolphinheart,
All your questions are easy to answer
But to know how to do that
I will need to know if you are muslim/witness/athiest etc
A private session will do

oluminnic:
@dolphinheart,
All your questions are easy to answer
But to know how to do that
I will need to know if you are muslim/witness/athiest etc
A private session will do

sir, the truth does not need to determine who I aM before it expresses itself. The word of God will not change its meaning cus of what I am, neither will your views change depending on who you are talking to .

Just answer the questions based on what you believe in, if there are issues with your explanations , I'll first ask for clarifications.

@ dolphinheart, As regards the definitions of trinity and Godhead, I believe they are well explained in my write-ups.
The reason why I asked for your religion/stand was because I want to know from what angle to answer your questions, so that it wont turn to unnecessary arguement

You see, the Bible was written through the inspiration of HS and it can ony be understood through the breathe of the HS. It is not like other 'holy' book that a lay man can read and understand because to understand it you need revelation. This is how the bible was written and this is how trinity came about. Trinity is a terminology used to explain a revelation, the first person that got and expressed it may just have a vague idea of it and further revelations on it is dynamic; even in the bible revelation about the names of God was dynamic, first Elohim then El-Shaddai and then Jehovah.

As regards the fact that father is always in need of companion. Jesus said if he does not go to the father the HS will not come...that should answer your question; when Jesus was baptized what John saw was a vision. As regards the spirit Jesus gave to his disciples, it depends on what portion of scripture you are referring to in Matt 10:1, Jesus gave them impartation but in John 20:22, he came to mark them for the downpour of the HS, because we see from the bible that the actual downpour of HS was on pentecost

When I said God was far away in OT, this is what I mean, God is always very near to us at all time, but in the old times, little knowledge was had, but now we have better knowledge because HS is now dwelling on our inside. What you have nearby that you dont understand is of no use to you but what you have far away that you can relate with is much better.

I really do hope Ive able to answer your questions

oluminnic:
Wow! CAPTIVATOR, I love your line of reasoning but You need to understand these.
1. The woman was formed from the man. Both of them are one but the man is her Lord (Master, god)
2. Same way the Word and the HS were formed from Godhead for the sake of redemption. Both the word and the HS are subject to God(the Father).

You explained that fairly well, but they must have chosen to ignore it.

God created man and woman, the woman came from the man and they are one flesh, the man is head of the woman
in the same way God bought forth Wisdom-the Word, the Word came from God, they are one Spirit, Father is God of the Word.

It's normal that the Son worships His Father, some think that it means they are not one Spirit,
then they must also believe that woman taken from man are not one flesh,
it must also mean they don't believe what is written in the Bible.

oluminnic:
@ dolphinheart, As regards the definitions of trinity and Godhead, I believe they are well explained in my write-ups.
The reason why I asked for your religion/stand was because I want to know from what angle to answer your questions, so that it wont turn to unnecessary arguement.

sir, You did not tell me what Godhead is, I want to know if your definition of trinity is a simplified version of it, secondly I want you to add the scriptures that tell us about Godhead. I'll come back to your definition of trinity later as we go along.
I believe if we are truth full, and answer each other questions to the best of our knowledge, it will be a discussion and not an arguement.

I'll be numbering my questions for easy identification
1. Yes Jesus did make mention of the father , the son, and the holy spirit, can you provide the scripture that said they are one?

2. where can we find Godhead in the bible, since you said trinity is not there?

You made this statement: "Wisdom presented 3 personalities in the Godhead to us in redemption"

this prompted the following question
3. So in the case of trinity, who was taken out of whom? who took it out?
what scripture can one use to surpport the bolded part?

You see, the Bible was written through the inspiration of HS and it can ony be understood through the breathe of the HS. It is not like other 'holy' book that a lay man can read and understand because to understand it you need revelation. This is how the bible was written and this is how trinity came about. Trinity is a terminology used to explain a revelation, the first person that got and expressed it may just have a vague idea of it and further revelations on it is dynamic; even in the bible revelation about the names of God was dynamic, first Elohim then El-Shaddai and then Jehovah.

there is a difference between "vague
idea" and totally "different idea".
This is what they said :
" , "it is the Father who generates, the Son who is begotten, and the Holy Spirit who proceeds" and in their relations with one another, they are stated to be one in all else, co-equal, co-eternal and consubstantial, and "each is God, whole and entire"

this is what you said:
"The father is the head; both the HS and son are subject to the father and all the 3 of them are one

can you see that your explanation on trinity is different from those that formulated the word? it is not vague, but different, in fact, the explanations are opposite of each other.
If they are not co-equal, but one is subjected to the other, then there is need for further explanation for one to know who is wrong and who is right.

The statement that "the first person that got and expressed it may just have a vague idea of it and further revelations on it is dynamic" is not accepted by me, why? , because the people who invented the word trinity, still hold on to that same definition up till today, despite the claim of further revelations.

In of the view that you should not have used their word "trinity" in simplifyin the word "godhead". They formulated it with their own definition and explanation of it, a definition and explanation which they had kept till today(and which your explanation does not surpport). If you want to simplify "godhead", I'm of the view that you should have formed your own word.

As regards the fact that father is always in need of companion. Jesus said if he does not go to the father the HS will not come...that should answer your question; when Jesus was baptized what John saw was a vision. As regards the spirit Jesus gave to his disciples, it depends on what portion of scripture you are referring to in Matt 10:1, Jesus gave them impartation but in John 20:22, he came to mark them for the downpour of the HS, because we see from the bible that the actual downpour of HS was on pentecost

I wish you would have posted the scripture where Jesus said those words so that we can examine it together. After that we will know if the reason for Jesus statement is because the father is always in need of companion.

I need further explanation on your view that what John saw was a vision, are you saying it is not real, that the holy spirit did not really come upon jesus at that moment when he came out of the Jordan?

let me show you some scripture verses on that event.
King James Version
Mr 1:9 And it came to pass in those days, that Jesus came from Nazareth of Galilee, and was baptized of John in Jordan.
Mr 1:10 And straightway coming up out of the water, he saw the heavens opened, and the Spirit like a dove descending upon him.
Mr 1:12And immediately the Spirit driveth him into the wilderness.

4. is verse 12 a vision too?, this is the same spirit you claim to be a vision and did not really come upon jesus!

see other scriptures too.
King James Version
Isa 11:2And the spirit of the LORD shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD.

King James Version
Lu 4:1And Jesus being full of the Holy Ghost returned from Jordan, and was led by the Spirit into the wilderness,

Lu 4:14And Jesus returned in the power of the Spirit into Galilee: and there went out a fame of him through all the region round about.

Lu 4:18The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,

When I said God was far away in OT, this is what I mean, God is always very near to us at all time, but in the old times, little knowledge was had, but now we have better knowledge because HS is now dwelling on our inside. What you have nearby that you dont understand is of no use to you but what you have far away that you can relate with is much better.

sir, in the OT, God was talking to his servants, he imparted knowledge into them, they had God's spirit in them, in fact God appeared to them even when they did not request for such prayers, they had prophets who for told events that will happen hundreds of years later.

We dnt have better knowledge than those in the OT, we have more knowledge than them. Just as the word of God was revealed and recorded progressively, so is the knowledge God gives mankind. that they where not given the knowledge they we have now does not mean God was far away from them, he was everly close to his faithful ones.

since the book of revelation was recorded, has mankind ever received any further revelation? no! We just get to understand better what has already been written down, no new writings.

I really do hope Ive able to answer your questions

some of the questions are still pending

@dolphinheart
1. Matthew 28:19, 1John 5:7

2. My bro, Godhead is a rev just like trinity. Just words used to at least simplify the perspective of the word of God (wisdom) on the personality of God. The truth is we see (understand) in parts for now but when the right time comes we will see the whole truth 1Corinthians 13:9-12

3. I am a mere mortal, who am I to know when, how and who about God. The word of God is beyond all humans, too complex for us, but wisdom simplified it for us so that it could be in a form that we can read/hear and comprehend and in the process of doing that, it presented the personality of God to us in three forms but like I wrote earlier, the time is coming when we wouldnt need human language again and then in our new body we will understand all things 1Corinthians 13:9-12

 As regards the 2 statements on trinity (mine and yours) YES they are not entirely same, but they both recognise the 3 personalities as it is in the scriptures above. Trinity is simply defined as one God in three persons. What you quoted was never the origin of trinity, it was the opinion of that group.


As regards the vision thing. The bible says he saw the heaven opened, c'mon, you dont need any further explanation, is heaven a door that opens? He simply had a vision, you just need to have experienced one to know. Jesus obeyed God by humbling himself to come to John and God identified with him (His Spirit on him); John saw a vision of the symbolic representation of this. (It takes the supernatural to see the move of God e.g Balaam and his horse)


'God was far away in the OT' In OT, few people can hear from God and tell other but in NT, we dont need anyone to speak to us for we can all hear Him Heb 8:10-13, Joel2:28

oluminnic:
@dolphinheart
1. Matthew 28:19, 1John 5:7

It would have been better if you had quoted those scriptures.

my question is :
1)Yes Jesus did make mention of the father , the son, and the holy spirit, can you provide the scripture that said they are one?

you provided two scriptures which I will quote

New International Version
Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,

sir, no where in that verse is it said that the father, son and holy spirit are one!, if I'm wrong pls correct me.
New International Version
1John 5:7
For there are three that testify:
again, that the three are one is not found in these verse, therefore the question still stands

2. My bro, Godhead is a rev just like trinity. Just words used to at least simplify the perspective of the word of God (wisdom) on the personality of God. The truth is we see (understand) in parts for now but when the right time comes we will see the whole truth 1Corinthians 13:9-12

thought you said trinity was a man word to simplify godhead, how is Godhead a revelation just like trinity when trinity cannot be found in the scriptures?
We are discussing on already revealed truth about Godhead.

my question is:
2. where can we find Godhead in the bible, since you said trinity is not there?

you did not quote the verse, but I will quote it here

(niv)
1cor 13: 9-12
For we know in part and we prophesy in part,
10 but when completeness comes, what is in part disappears.
11 When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put the ways of childhood behind me.
12 For now we see only a reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.

sir, there is no mention of the word "godhead" here, talk less of talking about it.
question 2 still stands.

3. I am a mere mortal, who am I to know when, how and who about God. The word of God is beyond all humans, too complex for us, but wisdom simplified it for us so that it could be in a form that we can read/hear and comprehend and in the process of doing that, it presented the personality of God to us in three forms but like I wrote earlier, the time is coming when we wouldnt need human language again and then in our new body we will understand all things 1Corinthians 13:9-12

your statement does not have cor elation with the question is asked , the question is :
You made this statement: " Wisdom presented 3 personalities in the Godhead to us in redemption "
this prompted the following question
3. So in the case of trinity, who was taken out of whom? who took it out?
what scripture can one use to surpport the bolded part?


 

As regards the 2 statements on trinity (mine and yours) YES they are not entirely same, but they both recognise the 3 personalities as it is in the scriptures above. Trinity is simply defined as one God in three persons. What you quoted was never the origin of trinity, it was the opinion of that group.

quoting some parts of that webpage that described their own definition of trinity
" While the Fathers of the Church saw even Old Testament elements such as the appearance of three men to Abraham in Book of Genesis, chapter 18, as foreshadowings of the Trinity, [color]it was the New Testament that they saw as a basis for developing the concept of the Trinity.[/color] The most influential of the New Testament texts seen as implying the teaching of the Trinity was Matthew 28:19 , which mandated baptizing "in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit". Reflection, proclamation and dialogue led to the formulation of the doctrine that was felt to correspond to the data in the Bible. The simplest outline of the doctrine was formulated in the 4th century, largely in terms of rejection of what was considered not to be consonant with general Christian belief. Further elaboration continued in the succeeding centuries."

now sir, did your own definition/explanation of trinity preceed theirs?, if not, then you are the one who modified their definition and description of the word "trinity". A word which they defined when they formulated it. therefore if you feel there is a need to simplify the term "godhead", dnt you think it will be best to find your own word?

Note, till today, those who formulated that word still hold on to its definition and explanation. Now since your explanation is different from there's as they are not entirely same, is it safe to say that the definition and simplified explanation of the Godhead by those church fathers is wrong?

As regards the vision thing. The bible says he saw the heaven opened, c'mon, you dont need any further explanation, is heaven a door that opens? He simply had a vision, you just need to have experienced one to know. Jesus obeyed God by humbling himself to come to John and God identified with him (His Spirit on him); John saw a vision of the symbolic representation of this. (It takes the supernatural to see the move of God e.g Balaam and his horse)

sir you did not respond to the scripture I quoted.
Secondly, are you saying that Balaam was seeing a vision too?

'God was far away in the OT' In OT, few people can hear from God and tell other but in NT, we dont need anyone to speak to us for we can all hear Him Heb 8:10-13, Joel2:28

I wish you would have quoted those scriptures.
from the scriptures and from your explanation, I still do not see how God was far away in the OT, if few people can hear from God in the OT, it was because few people where needed by God to spread his message. compare the geography of isreal then to the whole world now, how many people does God need then? few!
also compare the population then with that of now, check the ratio and you will see that God send more messages then than now!

as to people saying they hear God, there is no proof!