plaetton:

Lol.
And we should just ignore mathematics , and take your word for it ?
Brilliant, simply brilliant.

UyiIredia:
I suggest people stop taking plaetton seriously. His talk of chaos is trash. As Ive said there is a limit to what chaos makes and to suggest that all nature is birthed from chaos is simply foolish.

Weah96:



Nah. Human beings in our current form are generously a 200K yr old species. The universe is billions of years old, and has witnessed the deaths of many stars and galaxies over that period.

You're telling me that all of that happened just so that Kingebukasblog could one day ask silly questions on the internet after eating his ogbono soup?

UyiIredia:


Mathematicians don't say the crap you've been spitting out.

Nature, in the broadest sense, is the natural, physical, or material world or universe. "Nature" can refer to the phenomena of the physical world, and also to life in general

UyiIredia:
I suggest people stop taking plaetton seriously. His talk of chaos is trash. As Ive said there is a limit to what chaos makes and to suggest that all nature is birthed from chaos is simply foolish.

UyiIredia:


An extrapolation you simply aren't willing to make because you are blinded by materialistic bias.

Kay17:


Your reasoning is similar to this:

A dove flies, therefore penguins fly!

You have to recognise the limitations of your arguments. Humans can create cars and ships because we through our intellect, are able to grasp the workings of the Universe. We understand the physics and chemistry of the Universe. We know how time and light works. We know what gases do and are. We understand laws of motion and thermodynamics. Without these knowledge, we wouldn't build anything despite our intellect.

Information and coding lend us knowledge of physical relationships. We learnt them because they surround us in Nature already.

Now if you consider God just prior to the beginning of the Universe, there must have been total emptiness. Total Nothing. No rules or information. Intelligence would have been abjectly useless. God would require magic rather than intelligence.

In conclusion, intelligence needs a pre-existing framework as a precondition to work.

Kay17:


Your reasoning is similar to this:

A dove flies, therefore penguins fly!

You have to recognise the limitations of your arguments. Humans can create cars and ships because we through our intellect, are able to grasp the workings of the Universe. We understand the physics and chemistry of the Universe. We know how time and light works. We know what gases do and are. We understand laws of motion and thermodynamics. Without these knowledge, we wouldn't build anything despite our intellect.

Information and coding lend us knowledge of physical relationships. We learnt them because they surround us in Nature already.

Now if you consider God just prior to the beginning of the Universe, there must have been total emptiness. Total Nothing. No rules or information. Intelligence would have been abjectly useless. God would require magic rather than intelligence.

In conclusion, intelligence needs a pre-existing framework as a precondition to work.

plaetton:


Lol.

Mathematician?

How did that come into this discussion ?

See what I mean ?
How possible is it have a discussion on existential issues with simpletons who are aversive and hostile to scientific rationalism ?

UyiIredia:


Just as intellect is required to understand preexisting framework, Intellect is required for their making. You can't preclude the idea of a non-contingent intellect simply because of the way ours work. It's insane.

KingEbukaNaija:


Well he resorted to 'order from chaos' because he felt it would make it impossible for God to exist . And even sef 'order from chaos' could have been the design concept

plaetton:


It's quite a difficult challenge debating or discussing with someone who is aversive to science and scientific facts.

plaetton:
The Earth has endured numerous cosmic catastrophies in her 4.7 billion yr history, including extinction level collisions with other cosmic bodies.
In fact, the earth's geology, and ecology has been largely shaped and bear witness to such catastrophic collisions.

plaetton:
...
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2016/01/160129090451.htm

Stop acting ignorant, Josh.

plaetton:


And yes, the earth's geology, as well as her current ecology is a product of her violent and chaotic past.
That is a fact, not merely plaetton's opinion.

plaetton:


Scientific facts are not subscriptions. They are not religious beliefs one chooses to subscribe or unsubscribe.

KingEbukaNaija:


Facts ? Or assumptions ?

Like the FIVE theories that try to explain the formation of the moon

Or the TOP THREE theories that try to explain the origin of life forms on earth

Do you see you we are against purporting spurious assumptions as facts

PastorAIO:




I didn't realise that the Daily Mail was a scientific journal.

Kay17:


Now you are seeing the weaknesses of extrapolation.

That aside, could you explain how intelligence rather than imagination can be responsible creation from nothingness?

UyiIredia:


I don't see any weakness. You do, your materialism remember. Imagination falls under intelligence, the more intelligent one is the more one can use their imagination. I can't and won't dwell on how this world was made by intelligence but I can make the inference that intelligence was fundamental to creating our world given the sort of systems we see. If there's a weakness point it out so it can be dealt with.

Kay17:


Your reasoning is similar to this:

A dove flies, therefore penguins fly!

You have to recognise the limitations of your arguments. Humans can create cars and ships because we through our intellect, are able to grasp the workings of the Universe. We understand the physics and chemistry of the Universe. We know how time and light works. We know what gases do and are. We understand laws of motion and thermodynamics. Without these knowledge, we wouldn't build anything despite our intellect.

Information and coding lend us knowledge of physical relationships. We learnt them because they surround us in Nature already.

Now if you consider God just prior to the beginning of the Universe, there must have been total emptiness. Total Nothing. No rules or information. Intelligence would have been abjectly useless. God would require magic rather than intelligence.

In conclusion, intelligence needs a pre-existing framework as a precondition to work.

johnydon22:


Absolutely brilliant !!! Intelligence is a product of already existing inspirations, Nothingness suggests no intelligence but abracadabra..!!!

Kay17:


But again the reasons why you infer these natural systems were created by God is because they are similar to human made systems, isn't it? And despite the fact that intelligence as used by man, is used with a pre-existing framework.

Kay17:


But again the reasons why you infer these natural systems were created by God is because they are similar to human made systems, isn't it? And despite the fact that intelligence as used by man, is used with a pre-existing framework.

KingEbukaNaija:


God is eternal , all knowing right ? Meaning before he caused something to come forth from nothing he already knew the outcome . So the known outcome could have been used to create the unknown . So that may explain the intelligence behind nature . He caused the resources to exist tho

I hope you understand

UyiIredia:


Sure. Not only that but natural processes are easily shown incapable of making these lifeforms and self-organize even in principle.

Kay17:


Do you believe God created the Universe from nothingness?

Kay17:

Do you believe God created the Universe from nothingness?

UyiIredia:


Sure.

Weah96:


Nothing is a very difficult idea to grasp. I think we use it in everyday vernacular without understanding the material implications.

Weah96:


Nothing is a very difficult idea to grasp. I think we use it in everyday vernacular without understanding the material implications.