Icon79:
Well, here's what I think. I think that Mikel had a great career but he definitely could've done more, if he didn't allow Jose Mourinho to turn him into a rigid and robotic destroyer. Mikel, if he had continued to develop, would have been one of the best offensive midfielders of his generation.



O pari

TheGoodJoe:


Mujtahida is making a very simple point. Do not write a player off because of his status in a club or the status of his club.

Finito.

Icon79:
Well, here's what I think. I think that Mikel had a great career but he definitely could've done more, if he didn't allow Jose Mourinho to turn him into a rigid and robotic destroyer. Mikel, if he had continued to develop, would have been one of the best offensive midfielders of his generation.



O pari

goldfish80:


Rashidi came to the team when they were in division 2, his goals helped them gain promotion (top scorer in div 2)
In the Premiere, he emerged top scorer and claimed the Apoty. (He achieved all these while being the least paid player in the club)

One again, I don't know what youre trying to prove. I have never judged a player by the league they played. I look at performance.

I honestly cannot figure out the corner stone of your argument.

TheGoodJoe:


Earn praises does not mean doing more. Mikel Obi might have had more praise singers just as Kevin De Bruyne is getting at City. However, one player that Pep Guardiola can hardly drop is Fernandinho because his role is so vital in keeping us safe. Just as De Jong before him. Yaya, Silva, Nasri and co. earned the praises but lots of City fans knew Nigel De Jong breaking down the attacks of our opponents played a key part to our win.

Mikel Obi was a big part in keeping Chelsea safe while they attacked. It is underrated but what he achieved and his longevity equates to the more you feel he would have achieved.

Mujtahida:

Behold your crucial players in top leagues in Europe. And please take note of those unattached, Almighty Rashidi in second division teams (like setubal) those warming the bench like Siasia, Eguavoen, Rufai and Jay Jay, the one in relegated teams like Agbonivbare (valleycano) the ones in India or cote d'ivoire like Ezeogu and Oliha or Uche Okafor the pillar of our defence at fc Ashdod in Isreal then ooo(chai imagine Israeli league then)! Finidi joined SE in 1991 when he was still a naija based player for sharks of Port Harcourt. and had held down the RW as his(based on your philosophy he won't smell SE then) before he went to Ajax in 93. For Finidi, I will give you Vicmo at Chelsea.

Please forumites, I have undying love for the 94 set because they were the ones that really made me into a football fan but the romantic picture some want to give us here is not the reality in so far as they want to make us think the present crop are playing lesser roles for sh!t clubs

Danielnino00:
Meanwhile, Rohr's favorite son(as some people on this thread call him) turns 19 today...


Happy birthday to him.. Hopefully he gets a loan move or more playing time next year .. He can't keep wasting away on Wolfsburg bench like that

realpoacher:


Clap clap clap ,,, Bravo!.....

Post after post, ... Points after point,... You have provided both pictorial and statistical evidences against every lie from @komern, @forgiveness and other bias doomsayers

But they will still argue it.... Even when it is spread out plain before them

These lots scare me with their segregation against Nigerian born footballers

I mean, how can someone call a "white" color "black" all because they can't see beyond their nose?

This is no longer ordinary... This is pure MADNESS!!

These guys are currently behaving like the whites,.. They are racially segregating against Nigerian born players. More like .."nothing good can come out of Nigeria "..its already a stereotype, no matter what you do or say,..the FB's are better in their eyes!

To them iheanacho will and can never come out of his rough patch, no matter how hard he trains!... Isn't this mentality the same with what Puel has against him? ... A white Puel is totally against your Player and you have decided to join him in condemning your brother because you now live in a white man land?

You play Solanke who has an English flag to his name for 10 matches without a goal, yet you keep on playing him. Whereas you play iheanacho only in cup games or give him 5 minutes cameos and he manages to get a goal still only to drop him and castigate him into abyss.

Why ... Is it because he has a Nigerian flag to his name on flashscore?

These guys double standards stinks to high heavens

soetanoreoluwa:
Check this out...

BascoVanVeli:


He is not wasting away, the club has plans for him. They are banking on him to step into the spot Gomez left. The least that could happen is him getting more game time from the bench.

soetanoreoluwa:
Check this out...

realpoacher:


Clap clap clap ,,, Bravo!.....

Post after post, ... Points after point,... You have provided both pictorial and statistical evidences against every lie from @komern, @forgiveness and other bias doomsayers

But they will still argue it.... Even when it is spread out plain before them

These lots scare me with their segregation against Nigerian born footballers

I mean, how can someone call a "white" color "black" all because they can't see beyond their nose?

This is no longer ordinary... This is pure MADNESS!!

These guys are currently behaving like the whites,.. They are racially segregating against Nigerian born players. More like .."nothing good can come out of Nigeria "..its already a stereotype, no matter what you do or say,..the FB's are better in their eyes!

To them iheanacho will and can never come out of his rough patch, no matter how hard he trains!... Isn't this mentality the same with what Puel has against him? ... A white Puel is totally against your Player and you have decided to join him in condemning your brother because you now live in a white man land?

You play Solanke who has an English flag to his name for 10 matches without a goal, yet you keep on playing him. Whereas you play iheanacho only in cup games or give him 5 minutes cameos and he manages to get a goal still only to drop him and castigate him into abyss.

Why ... Is it because he has a Nigerian flag to his name on flashscore?

These guys double standards stinks to high heavens

Icon79:
And I totally agree with you that he was a pivotal player for Chelsea, when he's allowed to play. But my point is that he could've still done more even as a DM. He has the talent to do more. After he was playing the same role (and at the same time with Micheal Essien), but you can see the difference when Essien plays that role versus when Mikel plays.

Again, this is not criticism (OK, you can call it constructive criticism). I just don't like it when black folks don't fulfill their potential. And it happens in all sports not just in soccer. A much less talented white player would stretch himself to max out his potential whereas an overly talented black player can only reach about 50% of his potential.


O pari

TheGoodJoe:


Mikel Obi does not play with pace. So, you can not expect him to play like Essien. Essien can create gaps and try to force attacks. When the team loses the ball, he can track back with pace. For Mikel Obi, it is different, he prefers to solidify the defence, keep it tight. He does not take risk with the ball. If Mikel Obi makes mistakes, it is so obvious because it is unusual.

Even Busquets that plays in a highly offensive side does not take much risk. This is due to his ability to play the role without pace.

To you, Mikel Obi should do more. To Gus Hiddink, former coach of Netherlands and Chelsea, Mikel Obi provides the right balance. Just that his contribution is underrated.

goldfish80:


Nigeria and indeed Africa was an emerging force in the world of football in 94. We were like the Iceland of 94 (if the narrative fits). It is understandable our players were gradually integrating themselves into main stream European football at the time, hence, they won't be super regulars until 2_3 years when they found their feet.
When these guys fully matured in 1996, they walked to the Olympic gold.

Same parameters cant be used to judge the 2018 set. They are not the pioneers.... The foundation have been laid for them by our heroes past.
The paltry returns we have seen this season is even more inexcusable since you claim they are more regulars for their teams now compared to 1994 set.

Take a look at the team you posted, only only Ighalo, Onyekuru, Nwakaeme have managed to hit any kind of form this season. Out of the 3 ,only Ighalo(who was only recently recalled after an uproar by some of us who saw Kelechi not good enough to spearhead the attack) is certain to play a role in the team come June 2018.
Is this good enough?

They were playing and scoring for their clubs during the qualifiers. The qualifiers started in 2015 and ran through 2016-2017.... Kelechi, Musa and others were playing good football for their teams at the time.

The world cup level is 3 notches higher than qualifiers and friendly matches. Most of the goals they scored were patched up by their ho, e form. Away from home in the qualifiers they managed to score more than once against Zambia.

That's the difference with people like me, I don't wait for things to go wrong before thinking about solutions. It could be my training as an engineer to be preemptive,I dont know.

If the world cup standard was the same as the qualifiers and friendlies, I will be chilled like everyone else

TheGoodJoe:


Mikel Obi did not earn raving reviews because he did not play a flamboyant role but he was influential in Chelsea playing a vital role for the club. During that period, Chelsea was one of the most successful clubs in World football.

Due to his sacrifice for football, people may not be screaming his name but sure, Mikel Obi is one of the biggest icons of African football.

Tell them I said that.

Mujtahida:

They were not relegation candidates. They played only one season in the primera division throughout the time Rashidi was there. Basically he was playing for a division two club in Portugal.
Point is that those who look at the quality of a club before giving a player chance in the team would have used the fact that Rashidi was playing for a division two club to criticize his inclusion in the team not to talk of being our top nine. They will not see the fact that his scoring such goals in a wretched team shows his class, they will just close their minds and start reeling names of other players.

Mujtahida:

Go and x-ray the 94 set with that question and then we can compare. Tell me how many of the 94 set had played champions league football by 94. Iwobi, Onyekwuru, Moses, Mikel, even the much maligned Iheanacho and Musa, Ndidi have played champions league football. In the 94 set I can only count Finidi and maybe Keshi (Europe cup)
This comparisons including the one I just did are ridiculous Sir because one just picks players at random and frames a narrative. That's not good enough. Let's look at things comprehensively as I have laboured to bring the facts for us to see things from a fuller perspective
The facts are staring us in the face: club for club 94 set and the present crop are the same, league for league, they are the same. Playing time, the present crop has far more players playing regularly, player for player, Kog45 has shown that in the defence this team seem better than the 94 set while in the attack the 94 team was better and generally so too in other departments.

Mujtahida:

I don't dislike anybody. The point that skips your mind is that even if Osimhen were to do what Solanke has done it would mean nothing to you because your prejudice would blind you to see it. The way you turned a blind eye to Iheanacho's performance at city and was praising and comparing Solanke who is yet to score a single league game proves the point I am trying to make. Sir, you are one of the least objective posters here but you are blithely unaware of it.

Perhaps you have suffered racism for so long, fought it for so long you now suffer from inverted racism. As in you direct the angst you feel not at the white man but to the black man whom you might at some level feel is responsible for the racist battles you have had to fight. Just like a poor man who becomes rich hating the poor.

Icon79:
And I totally agree with you that he was a pivotal player for Chelsea, when he's allowed to play. But my point is that he could've still done more even as a DM. He has the talent to do more. After he was playing the same role (and at the same time with Micheal Essien), but you can see the difference when Essien plays that role versus when Mikel plays.

Again, this is not criticism (OK, you can call it constructive criticism). I just don't like it when black folks don't fulfill their potential. And it happens in all sports not just in soccer. A much less talented white player would stretch himself to max out his potential whereas an overly talented black player can only reach about 50% of his potential.


O pari

goldfish80:


Of course, impossible is nothing but you must understand ths realities on ground.

We still have uncertainties surrounding our Gk
Our best defender cannot get a game in a mid table German club, the rest of our defenders play in the championship, Holland, Cyprus, Belgium and average Turkish clubs.
Our best midfielder is based in China, while the support cast play for average Turkish clubs, Isreal and mid table premiership club

The attack is spearheaded by a Chinese based striker and Chelsea's right back. Leicester city misfits and a hot and cold Belgium based winger make up the numbers

Yes, impossible is nothing but we must not overrate ourselves.

Humility017:

he should keep his empty words in his pocket.....
what's the essence of showering praises on him...and still not name him in his 18 man squad....?

musa really need a loan move in January if possible back to Russia......that will help him.

Mujtahida:

I don't dislike anybody. The point that skips your mind is that even if Osimhen were to do what Solanke has done it would mean nothing to you because your prejudice would blind you to see it. The way you turned a blind eye to Iheanacho's performance at city and was praising and comparing Solanke who is yet to score a single league game proves the point I am trying to make. Sir, you are one of the least objective posters here but you are blithely unaware of it.

[/b]Perhaps you have suffered racism for so long, fought it for so long you now suffer from inverted racism. As in you direct the angst you feel not at the white man but to the black man whom you might at some level feel is responsible for the racist battles you have had to fight.[b] Just like a poor man who becomes rich hating the poor.

komekn:


Before you once again muddy the waters and move the goal post. Particularly for those who are easily misled.

What constitutes hate and bias. You make a presumption but it's anchored on thin air absolute nothingness.

To prove your point why not quote me specifically with regards to KC and Osimhen.

But you create a comparison by yourself with your own yardstick and then use it measure and appraise my responses that are not related. That's simply deception.

tbaba1234:


Iwobi had a bad first half, that was clear. Wilshere is playing a deeper role and is not in competition with Iwobi.

Iwobi has not been bad this season. I have seen games where Iwobi is one of the few Arsenal players doing anything of note. But i go online and see ridiculous comments. Sanchez has been far more atrocious but does not get as much stick.

Iwobi needs to convert his game play into goals and assists. Fans do not read stats on whoscored.com, all they see are goals and assists.

edi287:

This is WRONG on so many levels. In as much as I don't always agree with his views on here, I don't think Komekn has said anything to warrant this thought. Truth of the matter is he is based on England and naturally will tend to know more about the British terrain and show a little "bias" once in a while when it comes to naija born players.
Some of you guys are going way over the top with this thing

junnyjake:


When you talk about Dessers scoring 29 goals 13 assists in the Dutch 2nd division, the same people would scream you out.

Mujtahida:

If I tell you that I understand what you wrote above I am lying.

Dannyxy:
oga, what do you want to hear on a Nigerian forum?

"That we will not come out of the group stage, because our players are very poor, we should not hope because our strikers are not banging goals every weekend"

Ahh some people tire me sef.. Be realistic bro, as long as we have qualified, every Nigerian has the right to beat their chest, on their own forum, the boys deserve our confidence, and we are confident in them, despite thier travails, we believe them... And if the "believe" in the team is paining you.. Then bro, you could just ignore..


Or what you want to hear is " we will get trashed, loose all our games, in fact, we would be the worst team in the tournament" I have said it, are you happy now?

Na wetin you wan hear be that on a Nigerian forum? Braaa nawa for you sef..

edi287:

This is the truth. Mou expected Mikel to be like Pogba is at the moment. I remember after the Confederations cup he said something like Mikel still doesn't score goals but he's still difficult to get the ball off...subtle hint at him not improving as much as he would've liked all those years.