WESTON, Wis. —  An 11-year-old girl died after her parents prayed for healing rather than seek medical help for a treatable form of diabetes, police said Tuesday.

Everest Metro Police Chief Dan Vergin said Madeline Neumann died Sunday.

"She got sicker and sicker until she was dead," he said.

Vergin said an autopsy determined the girl died from diabetic ketoacidosis, an ailment that left her with too little insulin in her body, and she had probably been ill for about 30 days, suffering symptoms like nausea, vomiting, excessive thirst, loss of appetite and weakness.

The girl's parents, Dale and Leilani Neumann, attributed the death to "apparently they didn't have enough faith," the police chief said.

They believed the key to healing "was it was better to keep praying. Call more people to help pray," he said.

The mother believes the girl could still be resurrected, the police chief said.

Telephone messages left at the Neumann home by The Associated Press were not immediately returned.

The family does not attend an organized church or participate in an organized religion, Vergin said. "They have a little Bible study of a few people."

The parents told investigators their daughter last saw a doctor when she was 3 to get some shots, Vergin said. The girl had attended public school during the first semester but didn't return for the second semester.

Officers went to the home after one of the girl's relatives in California called police to check on her, Vergin said. She was taken to a hospital where she was pronounced dead.

The relative was fearful the girl was "extremely ill, dire," Vergin said.

The girl has three siblings, ranging in age from 13 to 16, the police chief said.

"They are still in the home," he said. "There is no reason to remove them. There is no abuse or signs of abuse that we can see."

The girl's death remains under investigation and the findings will be forwarded to the district attorney to review for possible charges, the chief said.

The family operates a coffee shop in Weston, which is a suburb of Wausau, Vergin said.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/03/28/madeline-neumann-11-year_n_93903.html

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,341574,00.html

They even said that they didn't call for a doctor because that would have been putting a doctor before God.

That is just sad. Really tragic.

This is religion at one of its lowest, tragic loss of a poor child. Bible-believing and practising christians would disagree 100% with this literalist, have strong enough 'faith only' parents. The bible teaches the exact opposite of what they did.

This is Sad and Tragic, May her soul rest in perfect peace.

JeSoul:

  This is religion at one of its lowest, tragic loss of a poor child. Bible-believing and practising christians would disagree 100% with this literalist, have strong enough 'faith only' parents. The bible teaches the exact opposite of what they did.

religion causes us to use blind faith.

true bible believing causes us to have an assurance of faith which engages our brain.

Look at them here pretending like that family wasn't following the ridiculous commandment of god in the bible.
Didn't paul direct that if you're sick you should go kneel to the church elders for prayers?

The family should be charged with MURDER.

kshow1:

The family should be charged with MURDER.

for obeying the bible?

Tudór:

Look at them here pretending like that family wasn't following the ridiculous commandment of god in the bible.
Didn't paul direct that if you're sick you should go kneel to the church elders for prayers?

Is it everyone who prays that gets answers. No? For a variety of reasons. Wrong motives, or sin, perhaps.

Psalms 66:18
If I regard iniquity in my heart, the LORD will not hear me.

Isaiah 1:15-16
15 And when ye spread forth your hands, I will hide mine eyes from you: yea, when ye make many prayers, I will not hear: your hands are full of blood.

16 Wash you, make you clean; put away the evil of your doings from before mine eyes; cease to do evil;

Jeremiah 5:25
Your iniquities have turned away these things, and your sins have withholden good things from you.

We only know as much as the family wants us to know. How do we know that they were right with God when they were praying? As a Christian, I have experienced exactly what I quoted above, asking God for something, and then sinning before it came (very recently, within the last two or three months). Needless to say, I didn't get it.

@ Mactao,
verily, verily, I perceive from thy post that thou art likely to behave as the girl's parents or maybe worse.


The girl's parents showed their dedication to their God and sacrificed their daughter by doing so,yet, you are talking about sin. What sin Is it the girl who sinned or the parents that sinned that warranted the girl's death? Do you think that those who go to doctors are less dedicated to God? Do you think that when Christians succumb to illness or death it is because they have sin in their lives? Dude, you make me laff in Urhobo .

The girls parents should be charged with wilful neglect in this case.

mactao:

Is it everyone who prays that gets answers. No? For a variety of reasons. Wrong motives, or sin, perhaps.

Psalms 66:18
If I regard iniquity in my heart, the LORD will not hear me.

Isaiah 1:15-16
15 And when ye spread forth your hands, I will hide mine eyes from you: yea, when ye make many prayers, I will not hear: your hands are full of blood.

16 Wash you, make you clean; put away the evil of your doings from before mine eyes; cease to do evil;

Jeremiah 5:25
Your iniquities have turned away these things, and your sins have withholden good things from you.

We only know as much as the family wants us to know. How do we know that they were right with God when they were praying? As a Christian, I have experienced exactly what I quoted above, asking God for something, and then sinning before it came (very recently, within the last two or three months). Needless to say, I didn't get it.

You people keep making excuses for the incompetency and inefficiency of your god. . . .solomon screwed 300 mistresses yet god kept blessing him. . .what excuse does your god have?

What kind of a wicked god would let a helpless 11 year old girl die even after months prayers?
Let assume for the sake of it the parents were sinners, still the poor girl couldn't get herself to the hospital coz her fate was in the hands of her deluded parents. . . Yet god in his majesty managed to kill her. If the drunkard jesus wasn't wasting miracles turning water into wine there might actually be hope for this poor girl.


I thought by the stripes of jesus we are healed. . . .infact that stupid carpenter should be whipped and crucified again! Rubbish!

Tudór:

Look at them here pretending like that family wasn't following the ridiculous commandment of god in the bible.
Didn't paul direct that if you're sick you should go kneel to the church elders for prayers?

Best post ever. Exactly what I was thinking.

Tudór:

You people keep making excuses for the incompetency and inefficiency of your god. . . .solomon screwed 300 mistresses yet god kept blessing him. . .what excuse does your god have?

What kind of a wicked god would let a helpless 11 year old girl die even after months prayers?
Let assume for the sake of it the parents were sinners, still the poor girl couldn't get herself to the hospital coz her fate was in the hands of her deluded parents. . . Yet god in his majesty managed to kill her. If the drunkard jesus wasn't wasting miracles turning water into wine there might actually be hope for this poor girl.


I thought by the stripes of jesus we are healed. . . .infact that stupid carpenter should be whipped and crucified again! Rubbish!

Actually I think this one wins.

there are some nuts deeper life members who follow such teachings.

[center][flash=650,400]http://www.youtube.com/watch/v/rLdwESk_Eps[/flash][/center]

[center]smh at this rev father attempting to invent excuses for dis

"faith and reason go together", yea right

apparently the "anything you ask for in my name you shall receive" was an oopsie from the man upstairs[/center]






smh

You don't have to get rid of your faith in order to think rationally? Faith and reason go together? The guy in the video is a bloody stupid christian apologetic

wbb

-If christians didn't condemn the parents, the atheists would say we do not care.
-Christians condemned the parents, the atheists say we're not genuine and are pretending.

I submit nuthin the christian will ever do or say will suffice for the atheist who thinks he knows what we are all about.

may her soul R.I.P.
it is the Lord's doing and it is marvellous in our sight.
who the Lord willeth, He taketh away.
adieu!!

Tudór:

Look at them here pretending like that family wasn't following the ridiculous commandment of god in the bible.
Didn't paul direct that if you're sick you should go kneel to the church elders for prayers?

not that way. you need to undesrtand even jesus to heal people he used Different ways when he healed blind men, the first one he just touched his eyes and said your sins are forgiven then he was healed but the second one jesus mixed the sand with his Spittle and scrub the blind man eyes and he was healed that is to say the seriousness of a desease is D# from another and need D# treatment that is the case some times people or some christians never understand

FMK:


not that way.   you need to undesrtand even jesus  to heal people he used  Different ways  when he healed  blind men, the first one he just  touched his eyes and said your sins are forgiven then he was healed  but the second one jesus mixed the sand with his Spittle   and scrub the blind man eyes  and he was healed  that is to say the seriousness   of a desease is D# from another and need D# treatment   that is the case some times people or some  christians never understand   

How does what you have said apply here?
Are you okay ma brother?

See some Christians criticizing one of their own for actually having the guts to believe in the bible and actually doing as it says. Didn't the bible say that prayer of faith will cure all diseases?

The parents should be commended not condemed by the christian folks because they really believe in the bible and have the guts to do what it actually teaches unlike the hypocrites that are all over the place holding the bible in one hand and castigating others for having the guts to try what it actually teaches.

Believe in jesus and your will be able to perform magic the bible says.

JaguaNana:

@ Mactao,
verily, verily, I perceive from thy post that thou art likely to behave as the girl's parents or maybe worse.


The girl's parents showed their dedication to their God and sacrificed their daughter by doing so,yet, you are talking about sin. What sin Is it the girl who sinned or the parents that sinned that warranted the girl's death? Do you think that those who go to doctors are less dedicated to God? Do you think that when Christians succumb to illness or death it is because they have sin in their lives? Dude, you make me laff in Urhobo .

The girls parents should be charged with wilful neglect in this case.

Maybe, and maybe not. I'd first pray. If nothing happens, if the situation keeps getting worse, then that would be a clear indication that there's either sin in me or I'm not praying in faith. Then I'd go to a hospital. Because I haven't fulfilled the Bible's conditions. I'd also check myself out, so it doesn't happen again.

Christianity isn't cheap - a lot of you guys seem to think so. Jesus said speak and the mountain will be moved, and you think everyone who speaks will move mountains? Read the Bible properly, there are conditions for getting all these things. But you conveniently overlook all of them and follow your own argument. Good luck.

When I quote sin, I meant that it's possible that the parents have sin in them, and so their prayers aren't effective. It's what the Bible says. If you don't believe in the Bible, then I understand your reaction. Else, I despair . . .

Tudór:

You people keep making excuses for the incompetency and inefficiency of your god. . . .solomon screwed 300 mistresses yet god kept blessing him. . .what excuse does your god have?

What kind of a wicked god would let a helpless 11 year old girl die even after months prayers?
Let assume for the sake of it the parents were sinners, still the poor girl couldn't get herself to the hospital coz her fate was in the hands of her deluded parents. . . Yet god in his majesty managed to kill her. If the drunkard jesus wasn't wasting miracles turning water into wine there might actually be hope for this poor girl.


I thought by the stripes of jesus we are healed. . . .infact that stupid carpenter should be whipped and crucified again! Rubbish!

Tudor, I didn't expect a different reaction from you - you don't even believe in God. Read what I wrote. There are promises in the Bible - but there are conditions for getting them. It's that simple.

As for Solomon, even David his father committed adultery, then killed the woman's husband. Did you notice how apologetic David was? Have you ever gone through the book of Psalms? Of course not, you're constantly leafing through the New Testament looking for ways to indict Apostle Paul.

It's not enough to know only half of the story.

mactao:

Maybe, and maybe not. I'd first pray. If nothing happens, if the situation keeps getting worse, then that would be a clear indication that there's either sin in me or I'm not praying in faith.Then I'd go to a hospital. Because I haven't fulfilled the Bible's conditions. I'd also check myself out, so it doesn't happen again.

Christianity isn't cheap - a lot of you guys seem to think so. Jesus said speak and the mountain will be moved, and you think everyone who speaks will move mountains? Read the Bible properly, there are conditions for getting all these things. But you conveniently overlook all of them and follow your own argument. Good luck.

What absolute crap!
Christianity is now very expensive, right?
So if you have sin in you what stops you from REPENTING or is it when you need healing god decides to close his ears to prayers of repentace. . .if you know you lack faith why not step up your faith? It's only when you wanna give offerings that faith is easy to come by but when it's time for rewards and god to prove himself faith suddenly becomes a scarce commodity - like i said you people keep making excuses for the incompetency and inefficiency of your god.

When I quote sin, I meant that it's possible that the parents have sin in them, and so their prayers aren't effective. It's what the Bible says. If you don't believe in the Bible, then I understand your reaction. Else, I despair . . .

The parents have sin so what?
The poor girl couldn't get herself to the hospital, if she was to get treatment her parents would have to take her but they were obviously convinced they were without sin and believed god for healing. . . Why didn't god send an angel to tell them they were sinners so they can find other alternatives instead he lazily sat in heaven ignoring their prayers and saying nothing, leading them to believe he was actually listening, the girl died and it's the fault of the wicked incompetent god !

Tudor, I didn't expect a different reaction from you - you don't even believe in God. Read what I wrote. There are promises in the Bible - but there are conditions for getting them. It's that simple.

Blah blah conditions!
Jesus raised lazarus from the dead, does a dead man have faith?
Yet he got a miracle.
Elijah raised an army of dry bones ,last time i checked dry bones aren't really boxed up on faith.
The demon possessed man in wasn't professing faith yet jesus cast out demons and freed him- quit all this BS about faith!

As for Solomon, even David his father committed adultery, then killed the woman's husband. Did you notice how apologetic David was? Have you ever gone through the book of Psalms?

I never saw anywhere solomon expressed remorse rather there's a whole book dedicated to the erotic poems he wrote for the 300 concubines so he could shag them non-stop

Of course not, you're constantly leafing through the New Testament looking for ways to indict Apostle Paul.

It's not enough to know only half of the story.

I know the full story from the murders and atrocities of your god in the OT to the lies and deceit packed in the NT, so stop spewing ignorance.

There is just no way these people will ever stop lying for jesus.  . A family shows thier deepest act of faith and these hypocrites are here making meaningless excuses. Its better to live around people that truly believe what the bible teaches them and live by it than to live around all these liars that only know how to twist things around to suit their own views.

The parents did what the bible tells them yet our resident hypocrites are trying to criticize them.

mactao:

Christianity isn't cheap - a lot of you guys seem to think so. Jesus said speak and the mountain will be moved, and you think everyone who speaks will move mountains? Read the Bible properly, there are conditions for getting all these things. But you conveniently overlook all of them and follow your own argument. Good luck.

My friend stop lying for jesus here, The only condition written in the bible and the only words and condition said to be spoken by jesus are belief and faith. If you have them the bible says that there is no magic that you can not perform.

Matthew 7:7 Jesus says:
Ask, and it will be given you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you. For every one who asks receives, and he who seeks finds, and to him who knocks it will be opened. Or what man of you, if his son asks him for bread, will give him a stone? Or if he asks for a fish, will give him a serpent? If you then, who are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father who is in heaven give good things to those who ask him!

For truly, I say to you, if you have faith as a grain of mustard seed, you will say to this mountain, 'Move from here to there,' and it will move; and nothing will be impossible to you.Matthew 17:20

I tell you the truth, if you have faith and do not doubt, not only can you do what was done to the fig tree, but also you can say to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and it will be done. If you believe, you will receive whatever you ask for in prayer.Matthew 21:21

Mark 11:24:
Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours.

"Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes in me will also do the works that I do; and greater works than these will he do, because I go to the Father. Whatever you ask in my name, I will do it, that the Father may be glorified in the Son; if you ask anything in my name, I will do it. John 14:12-14

Again I say to you, if two of you agree on earth about anything they ask, it will be done for them by my Father in heaven. For where two or three are gathered in my name, there am I in the midst of them.Matthew 18:19 

The bible is very CLEAR as to how prayers are supposed to work. All you need is faith and the magic will be done thats from the words that were said to be spoken by jesus himself.

Why do u think there are still loads of unchanging rednecks in america today?because they are dumb,they like to believe blindly.

JeSoul:

  This is religion at one of its lowest, tragic loss of a poor child. Bible-believing and practising christians would disagree 100% with this literalist, have strong enough 'faith only' parents. The bible teaches the exact opposite of what they did.

What bible are you talking about? Are these passages missing from your bible?

I tell you the truth, if you have faith and do not doubt, not only can you do what was done to the fig tree, but also you can say to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and it will be done. If you believe, you will receive whatever you ask for in prayer.Matthew 21:21

Mark 11:24:
Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours.

"Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes in me will also do the works that I do; and greater works than these will he do, because I go to the Father. Whatever you ask in my name, I will do it, that the Father may be glorified in the Son; if you ask anything in my name, I will do it. John 14:12-14

LMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I CNAT LAFF ABEG

STUPIDITY AT ITS PEAK!!!!!

KAI, IF NA MONEY MIRACEL NOW E FOR HAPPEN. . .

YEYE PEOPLE. . .!

javalove:

LMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I CNAT LAFF ABEG

STUPIDITY AT ITS PEAK!!!!!

KAI, IF NA MONEY MIRACEL NOW E FOR HAPPEN. . .

YEYE PEOPLE. . .!

Mr javalove aren't you a bloody hypocrite. . . .i dnt see you saying anything in this thread
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-304903.0.html
Remove the log of wood in your eyes first!

Check out Tudor and bindex desperately trying to define Christianity when they're not Christians. Wow. I'll repeat - you're taking portions that support your argument and ignoring the rest.

What absolute crap!
Christianity is now very expensive, right?
So if you have sin in you what stops you from REPENTING or is it when you need healing god decides to close his ears to prayers of repentace. . .if you know you lack faith why not step up your faith? It's only when you wanna give offerings that faith is easy to come by but when it's time for rewards and god to prove himself faith suddenly becomes a scarce commodity  - like i said you people keep making excuses for the incompetency and inefficiency of your god.

When I say Christianity isn't cheap, I mean it involves work. If you have sin in you, and you repent, and then ask for something from God, have you thought of it that maybe God isn't just some garbage-in-garbage-out machine? God is real, he has feelings, he has emotions. In other words, HE'S NOT AVAILABLE TO BE USED AND DUMPED THE WAY WE PLEASE!. Have you ever thought of it that maybe God wants to pass that message to someone who thinks otherwise?

You mentioned stepping up your faith - but do you even know what faith is? And exactly how do you step up your faith?


Romans 10:17
So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.


There are a lot of so-called Christians who do not even take their time to read their Bibles. Where is the faith supposed to come from? Some of them are unlucky enough to stumble on Nairaland just when the threads on "Institutionalized Christianity" and "I want to stop attending church" are high on the religion board. They read them, and get carried away, and decide to stop attending Church, where they can also hear the word of God. Some would gladly use Saturday night's hangover as an excuse, conveniently ignoring both the instruction about Christian gatherings and the Bible's instructions on alcohol. Where is the faith supposed to come from? Yet they call on God, and expect Him to answer. On the Sundays when they manage to go to church, they start practicing the exact opposite of what they just heard the moment they step out. People like that are the reason why atheists and muslims say bad things about Christians on Nairaland, for example. God gave His conditions, and when they're violated, there's absolutely nothing He can do.

The parents have sin so what?
The poor girl couldn't get herself to the hospital, if she was to get treatment her parents would have to take her but they were obviously convinced they were without sin and believed god for healing. . . Why didn't god send an angel to tell them they were sinners so they can find other alternatives instead he lazily sat in heaven ignoring their prayers and saying nothing, leading them to believe he was actually listening, the girl died and it's the fault of the wicked incompetent god !

The parents have sinned so what? The parents have sinned so what? The parents have sinned so what? Do you read?

Exactly what made you believe that they were convinced they were without sin? Aren't there homosexual churches whose members are convinced that they were without sin? The only yardstick for measuring sin is the word of God - NOT SOME RANDOM PERSON'S CONVICTION!

Exactly how did God lead them to believe he was listening?

About the angel thing, let me break this down to you further. God has lots of favours that he throws down to people, but by sin, people disqualify themselves. Besides, why would they need an angel when they already had their Bibles? If the angel told them something contrary to what their denomination teaches, they'll probably denounce it as an apparition of a demon.

Blah blah conditions!
Jesus raised lazarus from the dead, does a dead man have faith?
Yet he got a miracle.
Elijah raised an army of dry bones ,last time i checked dry bones aren't really boxed up on faith.
The demon possessed man in wasn't professing faith yet jesus cast out demons and freed him- quit all this BS about faith!

Even in the passages quoted by bindex, the faith had to do with the person praying, not the person receiving. I wonder what you're talking about.

I never saw anywhere solomon expressed remorse rather there's a whole book dedicated to the erotic poems he wrote for the 300 concubines so he could shag them non-stop

Songs of Solomon has meanings that reach way beyond the physical. I won't start explaining all of that here - it's irrelevant to this thread.

mactao:

Check out Tudor and bindex desperately trying to define Christianity when they're not Christians.

What is there to define heh? Christianity is all a load of crap anyway

When I say Christianity isn't cheap, I mean it involves work. If you have sin in you, and you repent, and then ask for something from God, have you thought of it that maybe God isn't just some garbage-in-garbage-out machine? God is real, he has feelings, he has emotions. In other words, HE'S NOT AVAILABLE TO BE USED AND DUMPED THE WAY WE PLEASE!.

So now after repentance god still needs time to get over his feelings abi?
You go through a probationary period whereby god protects his little heart like a naive virgin girl after when you've proven yourself then you can get healing
How laughable!

Have you ever thought of it that maybe God wants to pass that message to someone who thinks otherwise?

What kind of a wicked god sends messages by killing children. . . .yahweh!

You mentioned stepping up your faith - but do you even know what faith is? And exactly how do you step up your faith?

Romans 10:17
So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

There are a lot of so-called Christians who do not even take their time to read their Bibles. Where is the faith supposed to come from? Some of them are unlucky enough to stumble on Nairaland just when the threads on "Institutionalized Christianity" and "I want to stop attending church" are high on the religion board. They read them, and get carried away, and decide to stop attending Church, where they can also hear the word of God. Some would gladly use Saturday night's hangover as an excuse, conveniently ignoring both the instruction about Christian gatherings and the Bible's instructions on alcohol. Where is the faith supposed to come from? Yet they call on God, and expect Him to answer. On the Sundays when they manage to go to church, they start practicing the exact opposite of what they just heard the moment they step out. People like that are the reason why atheists and muslims say bad things about Christians on Nairaland, for example. God gave His conditions, and when they're violated, there's absolutely nothing He can do.

Again how does all these irrelevant mumbo jumbo relate to this family?
Like the article said the family READ their bibles everytime, they even had study groups so this crap about faith cometh by the word of god, obviously they heard the word.
And the lying bible says you just need a mustard seed size of faith. This family had refused this girl treatment for YEARS even inspite of her worsening condition! If that is not faith at work then i know you are a LIAR.

The parents have sinned so what? The parents have sinned so what? The parents have sinned so what? Do you read?
[b]Exactly what made you believe that they were convinced they were without sin?

Aren't there homosexual churches whose members are convinced that they were without sin?The only yardstick for measuring sin is the word of God - NOT SOME RANDOM PERSON'S CONVICTION!

[/quote]

EXACTLY WHAT MADE YOU CONVINCED THAT THE PARENTS WERE SINNERS??
[quote]Exactly how did God lead them to believe he was listening?

If you cannont answer this question then you must have a problem.

About the angel thing, let me break this down to you further. God has lots of favours that he throws down to people, but by sin, people disqualify themselves. Besides, why would they need an angel when they already had their Bibles? If the angel told them something contrary to what their denomination teaches, they'll probably denounce it as an apparition of a demon.

The angel was not a favour but to inform the parents that god cannot answer their prayers probably coz they had sin or maybe the lord wanted to smoke marijuana- at least something to notify the parents that god will not help them.
But no, god kept listening and turning a deaf ear to their requests letting the poor girl die. . .what a prick!

Even in the passages quoted by bindex, the faith had to do with the person praying, not the person receiving. I wonder what you're talking about.

So faith isn't needed by the receiver right?
Who is the receiver of the miracle in this case if not the poor girl.

Songs of Solomon has meanings that reach way beyond the physical. I won't start explaining all of that here - it's irrelevant to this thread.

What meaning apart from sexual perversions all over

Wow, Tudor.

1. God genuinely doesn't like sin. He doesn't like it when people keep going back to it. That's why he has to make sure we learn some things. Not because he's taking time to protect his heart like a naive little virgin girl, but it's bad. Even for us.

2. Do you believe everything you hear and read? You've totally blanked out the possibility of this family hiding something from the public.

3. There are people who read the Bible like literature. I'm sure you do, as do many atheists and muslims on Nairaland. You can't compare the level at which you read it with the level at which a Christian reads it. People who aren't born again read the Bible. How come it isn't affecting their faith?

What meaning apart from sexual perversions all over

Exactly what I mean. You and I have read the book of Songs of Solomon on two entirely different levels.

4. I'm not a liar. I think you're just choosing to believe the convenient part of the story.

The angel was not a favour but to inform the parents that god cannot answer their prayers probably coz they had sin or maybe the lord wanted to smoke marijuana- at least something to notify the parents that god will not help them.
But no, god kept listening and turning a deaf ear to their requests letting the poor girl die. . .what a prick!

Maybe angels in atheism and angels in Christianity are quite different. Here's what the Bible says on angels:

Psalms 34:7
The angel of the LORD encampeth round about them that fear him, and delivereth them.

Psalms 103:20
Bless the LORD, ye his angels, that excel in strength, that do his commandments, hearkening unto the voice of HIs word.

Revelations 22:8-9
8 And I John saw these things, and heard them. And when I had heard and seen, I fell down to worship before the feet of the angel which shewed me these things.

9 Then saith he unto me, See thou do it not: for I am thy fellowservant, and of they brethren the prophets, and of them which keep the sayings of this book: worship God.

Those three passages show that angels don't just wander about and do their own bidding. They get instructions from God. When they look down and see people doing wrong things, they can't do anything about it if God doesn't give the instructions. If angels could do what you wrote there then everyone on earth would have seen an angel - and atheism wouldn't exist, I daresay. But angels have more important things to do. Read Daniel 10:12-13 for an example.

EXACTLY WHAT MADE YOU CONVINCED THAT THE PARENTS WERE SINNERS??

I wonder what made you think I was convinced they were sinners. Exactly what I mean when I say you're choosing the convenient parts. I never stated it anywhere that the parents were sinners. I have only been saying it's a possibility.

And the lying bible says you just need a mustard seed size of faith. This family had refused this girl treatment for YEARS even inspite of her worsening condition! If that is not faith at work then i know you are a LIAR.

Don't you get it? You're not in the right place to define what faith is and what it isn't. To start with, only a person knows exactly how much faith they have, no one else could know. Now imagine an atheist halfway across the world reading an article and trying to determine it. Pur-leese.



_{Why am I taking my time anyway? You're an atheist, for crying out loud!}

mactao:

Wow, Tudor.

1. God genuinely doesn't like sin. He doesn't like it when people keep going back to it. That's why he has to make sure we learn some things. Not because he's taking time to protect his heart like a naive little virgin girl, but it's bad. Even for us.

You keep going round and round. How many seconds does it take to repent?
Why should god refuse to answer prayers immediately after repentance?
If i repent now why shouldn't my prayers be answered until after months- how stupid is that?

2. Do you believe everything you hear and read? You've totally blanked out the possibility of this family hiding something from the public.

Why must the family be hiding something?
Why cant it be your god who is incompetent and wicked?

3. There are people who read the Bible like literature. I'm sure you do, as do many atheists and muslims on Nairaland. You can't compare the level at which you read it with the level at which a Christian reads it. People who aren't born again read the Bible. How come it isn't affecting their faith?

Classic christian apologist crap!
The bible is just a literature like any other story book. Deceiving yourself into believing that you read it on another realm is delusion at it's finest!

Exactly what I mean. You and I have read the book of Songs of Solomon on two entirely different levels.

delusion! Delusion!!

4. I'm not a liar. I think you're just choosing to believe the convenient part of the story.

Really? All you've been doing is peddling lies and making sick excuses for the redundancy of your god.

Maybe angels in atheism and angels in Christianity are quite different. Here's what the Bible says on angels:
Psalms 34:7
The angel of the LORD encampeth round about them that fear him, and delivereth them.
Psalms 103:20
Bless the LORD, ye his angels, that excel in strength, that do his commandments, hearkening unto the voice of HIs word.
Revelations 22:8-9
8 And I John saw these things, and heard them. And when I had heard and seen, I fell down to worship before the feet of the angel which shewed me these things.
9 Then saith he unto me, See thou do it not: for I am thy fellowservant, and of they brethren the prophets, and of them which keep the sayings of this book: worship God.
Those three passages show that angels don't just wander about and do their own bidding. They get instructions from God. When they look down and see people doing wrong things, they can't do anything about it if God doesn't give the instructions. If angels could do what you wrote there then everyone on earth would have seen an angel - and atheism wouldn't exist, I daresay. But angels have more important things to do. Read Daniel 10:12-13 for an example.

It's either you're a liar or you cannot read.
Where did i imply that angels should appear to the parents on their own. My original question was why couldn't GOD do something to warn them or SEND angels to tell them to go to the clinic since he won't answer their prayers instead of letting them believe he was listening in effect leaving the poor girl to die. Afterall an angel appeared to joseph in the dream and told him to flee to egypt because of herod wanted to kill baby jesus aka god. . . .it only shows god is selfish and would gladly send angels to save his own ass but can't spare just one of the billions he has to go warn the parents of this little girl.

I wonder what made you think I was convinced they were sinners. Exactly what I mean when I say you're choosing the convenient parts. I never stated it anywhere that the parents were sinners. I have only been saying it's a possibility.

you only stated it's a possibility, so what?
You in essence attributed the death of the girl to the parents when clearly god is to blame

Don't you get it? You're not in the right place to define what faith is and what it isn't. To start with, only a person knows exactly how much faith they have, no one else could know. Now imagine an atheist halfway across the world reading an article and trying to determine it. Pur-leese.

What are you blabbing?
Their faith is pretty glaring!
Only someone with faith as big as a mountain would deny a beloved child treatment for years believing god for a miracle. The could simply have gone to the hospital but they chose not to. The girl kept getting worse and worse yet they did not waver, even after her death they still believe she can be raised from the dead.
Then You now open to spew crap about them not having faith- what a joke!

with their mountain size faith nothing happened yet jesus said you need only a mustard seed amount- what a liar and crook that jesus was!

_{Why am I taking my time anyway? You're an atheist, for crying out loud!}

You are a deluded christian drunk with the fallacies and lies of jesus-i don't expect much from you than the usual pathetic excuses you make for your wicked god.