Whist surfing the Autos section of Nairaland, I came across an advert for a grand Cherokee which was offered for sale (https://www.nairaland.com/3075067/1995-grand-cherokee-sale-n650000).

I opened it and went through. A moniker on NL went straight to ridicule the car. These are his/her exact words:

Jazzlite:
you're selling an avensis @ 530k, this man is selling 1995 cherooke @ 650K fuel shark, transmission drama king, mechanic scarce parts unfound... a risk to any buyer at 650! the man geh liver nor be small.

this why I never come 2 the auto section.

I responded to his outburst and told him that contrary to his opinion, the AW4 transmission was a sturdy and rock solid transmission which had same variants used in the Toyota Supra and Toyota 4 Runner of the 90s. To be objective, these were my words:

Denn:


If you are not buying, simply don't comment.

Have you heard of the AW4 transmission? That's the same tranny in a Toyota Supra and a Toyota 4 Runner of the 90s era ....that's the same tranny in this car.

The tranny was in production for over 20 years...does that tell you something?

The parts are at every where they sell American car parts...if your mechanic cannot find it, you need a new Mech....and oh...a Mech who does know how to adjust the TPS with a simple multimeter and not those who cannot send simple text messages.

If you need it and want to buy it, best is to negotiate... Don't try to bully the seller.

Don't always try to sound smart when there is a vacuum on the subject

PS: I have no association with the seller.

In his response, he claimed I was telling lies and would pull tear my analysis to shreds if I opened another thread. Despite my further reply, he insisted on another thread.

Therefore, I decided to open this thread for us to both defend our claims on the aw4 transmission designed by aisin Warner and installed in the Jeep Cherokee and many Toyotas for over 20 years.

You actually went ahead to open this thread? I am eagerly waiting though

kogirodent:
You actually went ahead to open this thread? I am eagerly waiting though

Yes.

I am waiting as well

Let me Park my Escalade here and watch this drama unfold. HEAD2HEAD NAIRALAND STYLE

@Denn you may be right on the ruggedity of the AW4 tranny, but don't you think that engine design and engine management system are contributory factors to premature tranny failures. Aisin I know is Toyotas tranny of choice and could still be found in some ford models that still experience tranny failures. I'm equally not ruling out maintenance culture, driving habits and what have you, but consider my points above. As for your opponent (no pun intended) he should do his research very well before arguing and bullying sellers, everyone has got right to sell their goods viz cars and their accessories as long as they are in good working condition and not scammers.

Denn:

I responded to his outburst and told him that contrary to his opinion, the AW4 transmission was a sturdy and rock solid transmission which had same variants used in the Toyota Supra and Toyota 4 Runner of the 90s.

Therefore, I decided to open this thread for us to both defend our claims on the aw4 transmission designed by aisin Warner and installed in the Jeep Cherokee and many Toyotas for over 20 years.

For starters, no Toyota was ever fitted with AW4. The Supra and 4Runner you mentioned ran on A340E or A340H.

AW (Aisin Warner) and Aisin transmissions are not exactly the same.

peterjero:
@Denn you may be right on the ruggedity of the AW4 tranny, but don't you think that engine design and engine management system are contributory factors to premature tranny failures. Aisin I know is Toyotas tranny of choice and could still be found in some ford models that still experience tranny failures. I'm equally not ruling out maintenance culture, driving habits and what have you, but consider my points above. As for your opponent (no pun intended) he should do his research very well before arguing and bullying sellers, everyone has got right to sell their goods viz cars and their accessories as long as they are in good working condition and not scammers.

Thanks for your observations.

You are right about engine design/management affecting the overall durability and longevity of an automobile system. Manufacturers are not always perfect; biodegradability of the Mercedes Benz harness, K series engine in the Rover, Nikasil incident in BMW etc all come to mind.

However like all component manufacturers including Siemens, Bosch, FoMoCo etc, there are bound to be good times and bad times.

In the case of Aisin, the AW4 was one of their 'very good products'.

These engines and trannies were very easy to work on and fix. The Transmission Control Unit (TCU) was so good, it was usually crushed with the car in USA since there was hardly a demand for replacement.

Cheers

Kashif:


For starters, no Toyota was ever fitted with AW4. The Supra and 4Runner you mentioned ran on A340E or A340H.

AW (Aisin Warner) and Aisin transmissions are not exactly the same.

This is for your knowledge.

The A34X series share the same internals with the AW4...

Only difference is the bell housing. I guess you would not know since you have never handled both transmissions apart from on Google search

Aisin Transmission is different from Aisin Warner?

Another picture to add to your knowledge

PS; don't come fighting with half baked research next time.

Denn:


This is for your knowledge.

The A34X series share the same internals with the AW4...

Only difference is the bell housing.

Aisin transmission is different from Aisin Warner?

Another picture to add to your knowledge

You overlooked the word 'similar'. AW4 and A340 are NOT the same. And yes, Aisin and Aisin Warner are NOT the same.

In auto transmissions, just one pinion added to a carrier makes a lot of difference.

Kashif:


You overlooked the word 'similar'. AW4 and A340 are NOT the same. And yes, Aisin and Aisin Warner are NOT the same.

In auto transmissions, just one pinion added to a carrier makes a lot of difference.

Pinion?

I said they share the same internals....the only difference is the bell housing.

Do you know what a bell housing is?...the cover dude.

I will post the Google search picture again on aisin.

Denn:


Pinion?

I said they share the same internals....the only difference is the bell housing.

Do you know what a bell housing is?...the cover dude.

I will post the Google search picture again on aisin.

You keep running to Google. I belong to professional auto transmission bodies, and we know that Google does not help.


If there is anyone who needs schooling on what a bell housing is, its you. Can you tell me just 10 internal parts of an automatic transmission without going to Google? Since you don't know what a carrier pinion is, there is not basis for our argument. I will leave you with your Google searches.

Kashif:


You keep running to Google. I belong to professional auto transmission bodies, and we know that Google does not help.


If there is anyone who needs schooling on what a bell housing is, its you. Can you tell me just 10 internal parts of an automatic transmission without going to Google? Since you don't know what a carrier pinion is, there is not basis for our argument. I will leave you with your Google searches.

If you belong to 100 space orbiting scientific associations, who e don epp?

I don't state facts without references. That's why I show screenshots.

Your associations would be disappointed in you to know you don't know the history of aisin and you don't know about the versatility of the AW4

The basic ordinary spare parts dealer in Ladipo knows that the aw4 internals go straight into the A340....that is why the AW4 is currently expensive in Nigeria...more expensive than the engine.

Yes, I learn from Google (like almost everyone here on cartalk). In addition, i learn from others who dont boast about the number of nuclear bombs they have successfully swallowed with a cup of water.
Have you heard of people who learnt how to read from home? Not every great lawyer must be an Harvard graduate.

If I list parts here, how would you be certain I did not do a simple Google search?

Let's focus on the facts of the matter and don't digress into unnecessary bickering.

Thanks

Denn:


Thanks for your observations.

You are right about engine design/management affecting the overall durability and longevity of an automobile system. Manufacturers are not always perfect; biodegradability of the Mercedes Benz harness, K series engine in the Rover, Nikasil incident in BMW etc all come to mind.

However like all component manufacturers including Siemens, Bosch, FoMoCo etc, there are bound to be good times and bad times.

In the case of Aisin, the AW4 was one of their 'very good products'.

These engines and trannies were very easy to work on and fix. The Transmission Control Unit (TCU) was so good, it was usually crushed with the car in USA since there was hardly a demand for replacement.

Cheers

Thank you for your time to educate this house.

Denn:


If you belong to 100 space orbiting scientific associations, who e don epp?

I don't state facts without references. That's why I show screenshots.

Your associations would be disappointed in you to know you don't know the history of aisin and you don't know about the versatility of the AW4

The basic ordinary spare parts dealer in Ladipo knows that the aw4 internals go straight into the A340....that is why the AW4 is currently expensive in Nigeria...more expensive than the engine.

Yes, I learn from Google (like almost everyone here on cartalk). In addition, i learn from others who dont boast about the number of nuclear bombs they have successfully swallowed with a cup of water.
Have you heard of people who learnt how to read from home? Not every great lawyer must be an Harvard graduate.

If I list parts here, how would you be certain I did not do a simple Google search?

Let's focus on the facts of the matter and don't digress into unnecessary bickering.

Thanks

If not for copyright, I would have posted a document here that should have cleared all this. You need to understand that even a 1987 and 1995 AW4 are not EXACTLY the same. Number of splines on output shaft changed, overdrive ratio changed, electricals etc, changed; let alone A340. Also remember that AMC and Jeep jointly designed AW4, not AW.

My point is that the internet is not a reliable source of information. Tell me any professional you know that trained on the open internet. Sure most people (including myself) learn from the internet but the question is who wrote and approved those materials? Is the writer an authority? Professional information/training is not free.

It is a slight for you to be asking me if I knew what a bell housing is, so you need to be corrected.

Shalom!

Kashif:


If not for copyright, I would have posted a document here that should have cleared all this. You need to understand that even a 1987 and 1995 AW4 are not EXACTLY the same. Number of splines on output shaft changed, overdrive ratio changed, electricals etc, changed; let alone A340. Also remember that AMC and Jeep jointly designed AW4, not AW.

My point is that the internet is not a reliable source of information. Tell me any professional you know that trained on the open internet. Sure most people (including myself) learn from the internet but the question is who wrote and approved those materials? Is the writer an authority? Professional information/training is not free.

It is a slight for you to be asking me if I knew what a bell housing is, so you need to be corrected.

Shalom!

If you were slighted about my utterances, I apologise. I am not always that edgy.

No one disputes the fact that little differences would not exist even within the same AW4 over the years. There was the renix era and the GMC era....pre OBD and OBD etc.

Even as relates to hardware, output shafts, bell housings, filters, pans etc could be different.

A transmission rebuilder with experience in handling both the AW4 and the a3XX series would know that you can rebuild either with either.

Let's move on please

What a waste of words.

Thie argument will not boost the sale price of that jeep.

This is 2016 a 1994 product cannot sell above 350k no how related the tranmissionis to a toyota.