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Is The NIV Bible Corrupt? (for Recognise And Other Christians) by JeSoul(f): 2:41pm On Aug 10, 2009 |
Recognise, I didn't want to continue off-topic on the other thread so I thought to start a new one. Can we discuss what exactly the problems are with the NIV bible compared to the KJV? Now I have had this debate with a few others in the past and my conclusion was that the 'differences' or 'omissions' to me are not nearly enough to dismiss the NIV hence why I still continue to use it. I attribute those problems to translational or transcriptional errors or shortcomings - not necessarily a conspiracy to water down the word of God and I don't see how the NIV presents a different or manipulated gospel from the KJV. All other christians your input is more than welcome. |
Re: Is The NIV Bible Corrupt? (for Recognise And Other Christians) by JeSoul(f): 2:53pm On Aug 10, 2009 |
Recognise: I don't use it exclusively - just mostly. I frequently use others like the NASB, NLT, KJV etc Jay, am not quite sure how to gently drop this . . . lol . . . whatever you have to say I'm sure I've heard it before, I've had this debate in the past. What Zondervan Publishers won't DARE tell you is that they are OWNED by Harper Collins, Why does it matter who 'prints' the bible? The same catholic/RCC church that most of us other christians believe to be evil are the ones who 'compiled' the bible. Yet we don't reject the scriptures just because of who had their hands on it at one point do we? For an idea of the perversions of NIV (i.e. the New International I will submit very quickly that the KJV is the BEST and most ACCURATE and PURE and UNADULTERATED of versions. That being said, I looked at a few of the 'NIV' errors in the link and while I do see what the author is saying - they are mostly sensationalized. When you move from one version to another you WILL have differences! you will omit and change certain phrases or words etc. This to me does not amount to damning evidence that the NIV is a conspiracy to water down the word of God. I personally switched to the NIV becos oftentimes I'd read something in the KJV, it'd make little sense, until I read it in the NIV and then go "oh! so that's what it was trying to say!". The KJ was translated using the language of another time, the NIV was translated using today's language. And I believe for the greatest chance of understanding they are both equally important. Kay aint got your addy..... I'll take it off when you reply. |
Re: Is The NIV Bible Corrupt? (for Recognise And Other Christians) by PastorAIO: 3:31pm On Aug 10, 2009 |
Why I Do Not Think the King James Bible Is the Best Translation Available Today To read all the text go here http://bible.org/article/why-i-do-not-think-king-james-bible-best-translation-available-today Definately KJV is dangerous in Nigeria. I've just got back and I met a pastor who quoted "Suffer not a Witch to Live". For a start he kept quoting it wrong and saying "Suffer a witch to NOT live". For him Suffer meant that we had to torture witches and make them suffer in the modern sense of the word. He was one of those Mountain of Fire guys. I saw that to explain the original meaning of suffer to him would take too much time and effort and he still probably wouldn't get it. 1 Like |
Re: Is The NIV Bible Corrupt? (for Recognise And Other Christians) by Nobody: 4:53pm On Aug 10, 2009 |
JeSoul: this is grossly untrue. These scriptures were being read by the ancient church way before the RCC came on the scene. We know that copies of the old testament were kept in the temple and read in the synagogues. The gospels provide evidence of Christ reading from the book of Isaiah (no RCC existed then) and he also quoted from Deuteronomy and the book of Psalms. Paul talks about his writings being copied and read among the churches too. Peter quotes some of the old testament writers too. Brother Jude also quotes the book of Enoch which is strangely missing from our copies of the bible. 1 Like |
Re: Is The NIV Bible Corrupt? (for Recognise And Other Christians) by JeSoul(f): 5:44pm On Aug 10, 2009 |
davidylan:David I didn't say the RCC wrote the scriptures nor did I insinuate it began with them and I'm not sure how you read that into my post. I simply said they had a hand in compiling the bible as we know it today, finish. |
Re: Is The NIV Bible Corrupt? (for Recognise And Other Christians) by PastorAIO: 5:47pm On Aug 10, 2009 |
I believe what she said is that they 'compiled' the bible. The various texts in the bible existed way before the bible existed. And yes, there were numerous texts considered scripture that did not make it into the bible. |
Re: Is The NIV Bible Corrupt? (for Recognise And Other Christians) by JeSoul(f): 5:47pm On Aug 10, 2009 |
Pastor AIO: Thanks for the link Pastor! Fascinating article with lots of things I wasn't aware of. Let me do some more reading and comment on them later. Thanks again. Definately KJV is dangerous in Nigeria. I've just got back and I met a pastor who quoted "Suffer not a Witch to Live". For a start he kept quoting it wrong and saying "Suffer a witch to NOT live". For him Suffer meant that we had to torture witches and make them suffer in the modern sense of the word. He was one of those Mountain of Fire guys. I saw that to explain the original meaning of suffer to him would take too much time and effort and he still probably wouldn't get it. |
Re: Is The NIV Bible Corrupt? (for Recognise And Other Christians) by Recognise: 10:00pm On Aug 10, 2009 |
JeSoul taken from What Is A Familiar Spirit? on August 08, 2009, 10:13 PM: Is The NIV Bible Corrupt? Yes it is and the evidences are abound Someone has to say it if no one else yet, is prepared to admit it Having said that incidentally, it doesnt stop me using it since I use it with caution; Aye, extreme caution. Oddly enough, back in the days when I couldnt come to grips with KJV it was NIV that I used to blitz the Bible through back to back. So in fairness, NIV put me in good stead & prepared me to grasp KJV afterwards The ". . . wouldn't trade versions like the NIV for the KJV . . ." gave the impression that NIV is what you exclusively use The unawareness of familiar spirits fuelled further the presumption KJV, once gotten the hang off, is a doodle The key is to use it inconjunction & in parallel with other translations Whenever the bones are about to choke, dont hesistate, just spit them out literally . . . Pastor AIO? Jay dont let the title or office razzmatazz you. Thats all I'll say about that . . . By the way, those in the know, understand that "Suffer little childre to come unto me” and the likes means "Tolerate, allow endure or permit little children to come unto me" Trust me NIV is corrupt and perverted It is lethal and dangerous if in the hands of those that dont know or are naive Am tired men. Need to hit the sack . . . |
Re: Is The NIV Bible Corrupt? (for Recognise And Other Christians) by PastorAIO: 12:48am On Aug 11, 2009 |
Recognise: I'm left wondering what you mean by the above. I see my name in there but what are you saying? |
Re: Is The NIV Bible Corrupt? (for Recognise And Other Christians) by Nobody: 12:38pm On Aug 11, 2009 |
davidylan: Why don't you start quoting from books of Enoch,Jubilees,and other writings that were not canonised. The fact remains that not less than 100 scrioptural writings existed before the Bible came into existence. The RCC you so much hate brought the Bible into existence,if you don't like that fact go and hang yourself |
Re: Is The NIV Bible Corrupt? (for Recognise And Other Christians) by richjohn1(m): 1:12pm On Aug 11, 2009 |
true talk chukwudi the RCC gave the bible that's why its filled with contradictions, inconsistencies and some will say errors. Its a true resemblance of what the RCC is |
Re: Is The NIV Bible Corrupt? (for Recognise And Other Christians) by FBS: 2:42pm On Aug 11, 2009 |
@Topic: Food for Thought. |
Re: Is The NIV Bible Corrupt? (for Recognise And Other Christians) by PastorAIO: 2:57pm On Aug 11, 2009 |
From the book of enoch: VI-XI. The Fall of the Angels: the Demoralization of Mankind: the Intercession of the Angels on behalf of Mankind. The Dooms pronounced by God on the Angels of the Messianic Kingdom-- (a Noah fragment). http://www.heaven.net.nz/writings/thebookofenoch.htm |
Re: Is The NIV Bible Corrupt? (for Recognise And Other Christians) by duduspace(m): 4:53pm On Aug 11, 2009 |
@Jesoul, Is this some sort of segregation yu're starting on Nairaland? do yu mean non christians should not contribute? Anyway's my two pence contribution is simply that god does a disservice to christians when he can't even come down to solve the issues having to do with the adulteration of his supposed words. We aren't talkin about people doubting him here but people who genuinely have faith like you. Bloke is definitely the author of confusion. |
Re: Is The NIV Bible Corrupt? (for Recognise And Other Christians) by Nobody: 5:55pm On Aug 11, 2009 |
@pastor aio Nice post,the scripture you quoted from the book of enoch is verified in genesis 6:1-5 albeit in lesser detail. It is also very interesting and thought provoking as it throws up a lot of questions our preachers would find embarassing.i.e could the angels in that passage be described as etra terrestrials or aliens since they were obviously physical beings contrary to spiritual beings which our preachers say today. |
Re: Is The NIV Bible Corrupt? (for Recognise And Other Christians) by JeSoul(f): 7:34pm On Aug 11, 2009 |
Pastor AIO:I think he meant in a light-hearted fashion not to take your title as a "pastor" seriously . Recognise:Alright I will go to that website and cull a couple of the 'evidences' they cite and discuss them here. The ". . . wouldn't trade versions like the NIV for the KJV . . ."Given the choice btw the NIV or KJV, I'm going with the NIV. The KJV may be closer in kinship to the original texts, but what would that matter if one cannot understand it? KJV, once gotten the hang off, is a doodlePerhaps for you, not all of us can be as smart and dandy with Kings English By the way, those in the know, understand that "Suffer little childre to come unto me” and the likesUnfortunately those "in the know" are not always the majority. The average person on the streets of naija I am willing to bet does not know "suffer" in that verse meant something else as evidenced in the anecdote told by PastorAIO. |
Re: Is The NIV Bible Corrupt? (for Recognise And Other Christians) by JeSoul(f): 7:37pm On Aug 11, 2009 |
PastorAIO, just a quick question. What is your opinion of the "Book of Enoch" you quoted? how do you treat/use such extra-biblical texts personally? What do you think is its importance/significance to us christians today? Thanks. |
Re: Is The NIV Bible Corrupt? (for Recognise And Other Christians) by JeSoul(f): 7:42pm On Aug 11, 2009 |
duduspace:Segregation was not the intention and I'm sure you know that . I wanted to have a discussion with viewpoints from christians only for two reasons: 1. because they obviously are the only ones who judiciously & honestly read the bible can can give their opinions on the different versions 2. because many atheists here are known for gate-crashing christian threads and going off-topic and the essence of the thread gets distorted and lost. For example the thread is about the NIV bible version but you have gone in this direction: Anyway's my two pence contribution is simply that god does a disservice to christians when he can't even come down to solve the issues having to do with the adulteration of his supposed words. We aren't talkin about people doubting him here but people who genuinely have faith like you. Bloke is definitely the author of confusion. |
Re: Is The NIV Bible Corrupt? (for Recognise And Other Christians) by PastorAIO: 8:26pm On Aug 11, 2009 |
JeSoul: To be honest, I haven't read much of it. I've tried a few times but it doesn't really grip me or speak to me in any way. I don't really use it personally, neither do I use much of the old testament. That is not to say that someone else might not find in it a rich source of inspiration. It's importance/significance to us as christians will vary from christian to christian. For me it has mainly historical significance. |
Re: Is The NIV Bible Corrupt? (for Recognise And Other Christians) by JeSoul(f): 8:34pm On Aug 11, 2009 |
Pastor AIO: Okay thanks. I always find myself somewhat unsure on how to handle or approach extra-biblical texts. Can it be trusted? does it stand in opposition or contradiction to the current bible? if not, does it have any significant application for today's believers? and for that reason I myself don't read or use any of them. I would agree with you though about their historical significance, but beyond that Anyways, slightly off-topic but care to explain more why you don't really use the OT? |
Re: Is The NIV Bible Corrupt? (for Recognise And Other Christians) by PastorAIO: 8:39pm On Aug 11, 2009 |
Here's a website that is a great resource for anyone who really wants to study the bible deeply by looking at the various original manuscripts in Greek, Latin, Aramaic and Hebrew: http://biblos.com/ This is what it has to say about Mark 10:14 All you have to do is put your cursor over a greek word and it will give you it's various meanings. http://biblos.com/mark/10-14.htm |
Re: Is The NIV Bible Corrupt? (for Recognise And Other Christians) by PastorAIO: 8:43pm On Aug 11, 2009 |
JeSoul: It is off topic but I'll answer briefly. Save for the psalms proverbs and a couple of others it doesn't really speak to me and there is not much that I can apply to my life in them. |
Re: Is The NIV Bible Corrupt? (for Recognise And Other Christians) by JeSoul(f): 8:54pm On Aug 11, 2009 |
Now addressing "evidence" purporting the NIV bible presents a perverted gospel as outlined by Terry Watkins on www.jesus-is-savior.com/Bible/niv_exposed.htm #1. In dispute: NIV perverts the deity of Christ. Really? 1 Tim 3:16 KJV - And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory. NIV - Beyond all question, the mystery of godliness is great: He[a*] appeared in a body,[b*] was vindicated by the Spirit, was seen by angels, was preached among the nations, was believed on in the world, was taken up in glory. The bone of contention is that "He" instead of "God" and "Body" instead of "Flesh" is used in the NIV. I doubt I need to point out the ridiculousness of such an assertion that this supposedly "perverts the diety of Christ". But the bigger point which the author shamelessly fails to point out is that in the NIV bible it clearly makes this observation in the footnotes on the same page in its bibles (linked by the [a*][b*] markers in the verses): [a*]-1 Timothy 3:16 Some manuscripts God [b*]-1 Timothy 3:16 Or in the flesh so if the NIV is truly trying to change 'God to Him' and 'Flesh to Body' why would it include that footnote on the same page as the verse to guide readers? |
Re: Is The NIV Bible Corrupt? (for Recognise And Other Christians) by JeSoul(f): 9:01pm On Aug 11, 2009 |
Pastor AIO: Thanks for the link, most appreciated! Pastor AIO: hmm, intresting. I find the OT bursting at the seams with stories of very practical applications. I would like to discuss this more sometime with you. I shall open a topic at some point. Thanks & Cheers! |
Re: Is The NIV Bible Corrupt? (for Recognise And Other Christians) by Recognise: 9:06pm On Aug 11, 2009 |
JeSoul: I like the manner you selectively quote and chose your responses How did you manage to miss the below and not address it as well [center]" . . . Trust me NIV is corrupt and perverted It is lethal and dangerous if in the hands of those that dont know or are naive"[/center] Have you not noticed that no one has grasped the bull by the horns and come out to prove or refute Is The NIV Bible Corrupt? I'll reiterate or paraphrase that the NIV Bible is corrupt because it is dishonest. It contains undesirable changes in meanings and/or blantant outright errors It introduced misleading and deliberate ommissions, an example is "familiar spirits" albeit inspite of it, you are now familiar with the phrase, excuse the pun We've heard that "All scripture is given by inspiration of God" One would have thought, yeah a trivial thing such as familiar spirits would be in Jay please can you publish here what the following verses say from your NIV: 1) Matthew 18:11 2) Matthew 17:21 3) Mark 15:28 4) John 5:4 5) Acts 8:37 6) Romans 16:24 Disclaimer! Weather check, you're due for a disappointment because you wouldnt find such verses in You think KJV is Kings English What you gonna say if you were reading Chaucers As I say I used NIV, with caution, extreme caution for that matter . . . I walk on water and dont sink because I know where the stones are an old Joke about the Pastor, Padre & Rabbi fishing on a lake . . . NIV is a loaded gun left in the wrong hands, its lethal and can be fatal . . . KISS- keeping it short & simple |
Re: Is The NIV Bible Corrupt? (for Recognise And Other Christians) by JeSoul(f): 9:19pm On Aug 11, 2009 |
Alleged Perverison #2: The NIV perverts the virgin birth. Luke 2:33 KJV- And Joseph and his mother marvelled at those things which were spoken of him. NIV- The child's father and mother marveled at what was said about him. Bone of contention? NIV says "Father" KJV says "Joseph. Quote from the website:http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/Bible/niv_exposed.htm The King James Bible reads, "And JOSEPH and his mother marvelled at those things which were spoken of him." The NIV reads, "The CHILD'S FATHER and mother marveled at what was said about him." The "CHILD'S FATHER"? Was Joseph Jesus's father? Not if you believe the virgin birth! Not if you believe John 3:16, that Jesus Christ was the Son of God! A subtil, "perversion" of the virgin birth.Seriously? I'll let the readers judge for themselves if this is a serious enough offense by the NIV. By the way, we should also chastise Mary for refering to Joseph as Jesus's father in yes the KJV: Luke 2:48 And when they saw him, they were amazed: and his mother said unto him, Son, why hast thou thus dealt with us? behold, thy father and I have sought thee sorrowing. |
Re: Is The NIV Bible Corrupt? (for Recognise And Other Christians) by Recognise: 9:21pm On Aug 11, 2009 |
Spot the difference game . . . Revelation 1:10-11: Still awaiting you to publish here what the following verses say from 1) Matthew 18:11 2) Matthew 17:21 3) Mark 15:28 4) John 5:4 5) Acts 8:37 6) Romans 16:24 |
Re: Is The NIV Bible Corrupt? (for Recognise And Other Christians) by JeSoul(f): 9:26pm On Aug 11, 2009 |
Recognise: Okay so are you saying the NIV is okay for some people but not for others? I don't want to misunderstand you. Have you not noticed that no one has grasped the bull by the hornsah ah see dis wayo boy didn't you see AIO's response and my first response to the website you presented as evidence? Don't make me come over there an example is "familiar spirits" albeit inspite of it, you are now familiar with the phrase, excuse the punhehe Jesoul is not 'familiar' with every phrase in the bible. I will miss and forget certain ones especially the ones I don't use or hear often or are not used in the version I use often. Jay please can you publish here what the following verses say from your NIV:Don't worry homeboy I will get to those in a little bit. I'm busy pointing out the sensationalized ones on http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/Bible/niv_exposed.htm |
Re: Is The NIV Bible Corrupt? (for Recognise And Other Christians) by JeSoul(f): 9:35pm On Aug 11, 2009 |
Recognise: Let me give you one response to this particular verse to wet your appetite, then I have to be out in a minute. KJV, Matthew 18:11 "For the Son of man is come to save that which was lost. You're right Matt 18:11 does not 'exist' in the NIV bible. BUT before you smile in false victory the NIV CLEARLY states this after verse 10: " For I tell you that their angels in heaven always see the face of my Father in heaven[b].[a][/b] the[b] [a] [/b] directs readers to the bottom of the page in the footnotes section where it says this clearly: Matthew 18:10 Some manuscripts heaven. 11 The Son of Man came to save what was lost. There. Where's the conspiracy and deliberate omission by the NIV to pervert the bible? why did they include it in the footnote eh? I am willing to bet for every "omitted" verse in the NIV, there is a clear, concise, easily visible at the bottom of the page footnote stating that exact same thing as in the KJV. |
Re: Is The NIV Bible Corrupt? (for Recognise And Other Christians) by Recognise: 9:50pm On Aug 11, 2009 |
JeSoul: @JeSoul - JeSoul Its OK for all and sundry to use as in, if all and sundry are aware it's dodgy and arent naive enough to think its harmless . . . Its akin to carrying a bag full of explosives, Its either you'll be careful with the bag once you're aware of the explosives in it or let go off it We havent covered grounds at all, in fact we haven't even scratched the tip of the iceberg yet This is a can of wriggly rotten worms, it aint goody two-shoes . . . You said ". . . I will miss and forget certain ones especially the ones I don't use or hear often or are not used in the version I use often . . ." Funningly enough thats one of the agendas and objectives of NIV and Rubert Murdoch the owner achieved to remove phrases such as familiar spirits from the Bible to suck the non suspecting public to psychics, mediums etc PS JeSoul today 10t Aug 2009: @^ Muwhahaha . . . We're anxiously awaiting your findings & the outcome of the other verses . . . |
Re: Is The NIV Bible Corrupt? (for Recognise And Other Christians) by Recognise: 10:35pm On Aug 11, 2009 |
JeSoul: @JeSoul Jay! Please!! Stop, you've stepped in it again and am hurting . . . I keep re-writing my responses because I dont want to come across as brash Are you trying to pull wool over our eyes, hmm? or recklessly and desperately looking for cheap pot shots without any regard to caution? You called to chastise Mary for refering to Joseph as Jesus's father, yeah? Why didnt read and study Luke 2 in context and properly instead of zeroing on Luke 2:33 and Luke 2:48 alone Mary hadnt a clue, and Jesus corrected her already Didnt you notice that Jesus corrected his Mum in Luke 2:49-51 and they still werent the wiser . . . Luke 2:49-51: |
Re: Is The NIV Bible Corrupt? (for Recognise And Other Christians) by JeSoul(f): 4:07pm On Aug 12, 2009 |
hehe see this yeye boy refusing to accept the plain, simple truth any verse or section that has been "omitted" in the NIV from the KJV can be found clearly stated in a footnote at the bottom of the same page of the same NIV bible being read from. and the glaring refusal of the author of the so-called perversions to recognise (pun intended ) this is highly suspect. You don't have to worry about coming across as 'brash' I can handle it . I see no need to go thru the rest of the so-called perversions listed on that website - they are all sensationalized. As far as I'm concerned the NIV bible preaches the unadulterated gospel of Christ, a few word differences here n there do not have any significant effect on its message at all. By the way you did not comment on this article: Why I Do Not Think the King James Bible Is the Best Translation Available Today Cheers! |
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