blueAgent:



Lol.... I tire for this kind person. God help us.

May God help us speak the truth when we see it. One thing with truth is that it's always simple, not hidden in much words, when we find ourselves using many words in place of a simple answer,then we need to re-examine, there exists a problem there, probably at the beginning. So my friend do find a simple answer for him... and for us too.

Syncan:



May God help us speak the truth when we see it. One thing with truth is that it's always simple, not hidden in much words, when we find ourselves using many words in place of a simple answer,then we need to re-examine, there exists a problem there, probably at the beginning. So my friend do find a simple answer for him... and for us too.

Wats the Simple answer?
Do you know what it.means for one to use his Discretion?

blueAgent:





Wats the Simple answer?
Do you know what it.means for one to use his Discretion?

So he should use his discretion?

Syncan:

So he should use his discretion?

Yes . apply Logical facts with reasoning.

blueAgent:


Yes . apply Logical facts with reasoning.

I see. Since you've been using your discretion in interpreting scriptures let me say it is for you that Peter writes about thus : In these, there are certain things which are difficult to understand, which the unlearned and the unsteady distort, as they also do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction. 2Pet.3:16

Syncan:


I see. Since you've been using your discretion in interpreting scriptures let me say it is for you that Peter writes about thus : In these, there are certain things which are difficult to understand, which the unlearned and the unsteady distort, as they also do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction. 2Pet.3:16

Irony of your statement is you are reffering to yourself.

You are unlearned and refuse to see anything against your narrative.even with facts you still argue blindly.

How can you say Jesus did away with ten commandments .when the same Jesus said he has not come to do that. and even told us to teach and obey the law.

Now using your discretion , as i said before. which of the laws is Jesus reffering to. that we should keep and obey it?

blueAgent:



Irony of your statement is you are reffering to yourself.

You are unlearned and refuse to see anything against your narrative.even with facts you still argue blindly.

How can you say Jesus did away with ten commandments .when the same Jesus said he has not come to do that. and even told us to teach and obey the law.

Now using your discretion , as i said before. which of the laws is Jesus reffering to. that we should keep and obey it?

what iss the ministry of death carved in stone?

blueAgent:



I posted other translations of that Bible verse to show you that . you miss understand the verse using King James Version. wat else do you want me to explain. Here is the verse. and their translation.

This is the full explanation of your Bible verse.
The ministration of death [the Ten
Commandments points out sin; Romans 7:7, and
sin points to death; Romans 6:23] on stone was.Glorious and was NOT to be done away. It was the glory on the face of Moses that was done away.



The King James Version is a little unclear in its
translation on this point. Observe just a few of
many translations below which are clearer.

AMP) [b]“Now if the dispensation of death engraved in letters on stone [the ministration of the Law],[/b]was inaugurated with such glory and splendor that the Israelites were not able to look steadily at the face of Moses because of its brilliance, [a glory] that was to fade and pass away.”


(ASV) “But if the ministration of death, written,
and engraven on stones, came with glory, so that the children of Israel could not look stedfastly
upon the face of Moses for the glory of his face; which glory was passing away.”


(NASB) []“But if the ministry of death, in letters
engraved on stones, came with glory, so that the sons of Israel could not look intently at the face of Moses because of the glory of his face, fading as it was.”

(NIV) “Now if the ministry that brought death,
which was engraved in letters on stone, came
with glory, so that the Israelites could not look
steadily at the face of Moses because of its glory, fading though it was.”



(RSV) “Now if the dispensation of death, carved in letters on stone, came with such splendor that the Israelites could not look at Moses' face because of its brightness, fading as this was.”




Moses was the minister of the Old Covenant.
He gave the people God's instructions on how to keep the Ten Commandments law [detailed
requirements on what to do] and what to do when it was broken [Priests and Sacrifices]. This glorious system of ministration was done away with, not the Ten Commandments. Christ
ministers the New Covenant.

let me ask u in a different way Do u agree witth ttthe AMp version above that the ministtry of deatth is the law given to moses carved in stone?

blueAgent:



Continue fooling yourself and end in Hellfire.
Since you know you have no arguement you just keeping overlooking the facts.

Bible translation have Shown that it was not what was written on the stone that was done away with. but the glory on the face of Moses. I was not the one who translated those Bible verses. You can google them or get any bible which is not KJV . for you to understand the verse properly. what is their U don't understand?

Going to Heaven is not about religeon but what the Word of God Says. its not about what the whole world believes.

The entire Christedom have been corrupted with Bible verses misinterpreted.

I urge you to do research on your Church their believes and how it contradicts Bible verses.

i didnt asked about the gloryy in the face of moses, the bible talked about a ministryy of death carved in stones given to moses, your amp version sayssss it isss the law, so tell me which law was carved on ssstones and given to moses?

Syncan:


Hahahaha, you go look for one line answer tire.

the tin tire me, na simple question. Bible sayys there iss a ministry of death carved in sstone and given to moses, i asked blueagent what is tthat ministtry of death? Instead of telling me tthat he iss busy comparing many versions that all agree tthat a ministry of death carved in stone was given to moses, and now he is agruing about the glory in moses face.

That doesssnt concern me, my question is simple, what is d ministry of death carved in stone and given to moses.


Blueagent will continue to dodge that question for ever and ever just because he is anti telling the truth and cannot say plainly that the law is the ministry of death.

Ubenedictus:
the tin tire me, na simple question. Bible sayys there iss a ministry of death carved in sstone and given to moses, i asked blueagent what is tthat ministtry of death? Instead of telling me tthat he iss busy comparing many versions that all agree tthat a ministry of death carved in stone was given to moses, and now he is agruing about the glory in moses face.

That doesssnt concern me, my question is simple, what is d ministry of death carved in stone and given to moses.


Blueagent will continue to dodge that question for ever and ever just because he is anti telling the truth and cannot say plainly that the law is the ministry of death.

You are a clown. so since other bible verses exposed your ingnorance they are no long good. the law was carved on stones.and in no bible .weather KJV or other translations was the law done away with. stop hidding the truth.

Ubenedictus:
i didnt asked about the gloryy in the face of moses, the bible talked about a ministryy of death carved in stones given to moses, your amp version sayssss it isss the law, so tell me which law was carved on ssstones and given to moses?

The law was engraved on stone. we both agree that. then show me were the bible says in that verse that the law was done away with. pls use other clearer bible translations.

blueAgent:


The law was engraved on stone. we both agree that. then show me were the bible says in that verse that the law was done away with. pls use other clearer bible translations.

SO U AGREE THAT THE MINISTRY OF DEATH IS D LAW?

Ubenedictus:
SO U AGREE THAT THE MINISTRY OF DEATH IS D LAW?

It is called ministration of death because those whose transgress it or default in any of the laws were put to death. the law points out sin.that's while
The Bible defines Sin as the transgression of the Law.Romans6:23,1John 3:4.
and the Bible says the reward of sin is death.Romans 6:23
Jesus died so we can obtain grace and faith to live in accordance to the law and not  been subjected to its consquences.

Moreover, common sense tells us that pardoning
someone for committing a capital crime doesn’t
do away with the law that was broken. If anything,
it shows that the law carries force, for without the
pardon, the criminal would die!
In the same way, the law of God carries force
since breaking it (committing sin) requires the
death penalty. The law is that powerful, that
important. It is holy. People aren’t saved from
that which was against them (the death penalty)
by doing away with the law. What saves people
from death is the death of Christ in the place of
those who repent of their sins. Jesus Christ’s life
is that valuable.

In fact, the phrasing Paul chose to use in
Colossians 2:14 showed that the law of God
continues to carry great force. By saying the
penalty demanded under the law of God was
nailed to the instrument that killed Christ, Paul
was showing that the law of God was still in force,
still requiring death for sin.
By contrast, if the law had been brought to an
abrupt end by the death of Christ, from that point
on, nothing would be “against the law.” Nothing
could be called “sin.” Of course, we know that is
not true. Sin exists, which means the law that
calls it “sin” also exists!

What is the correct way to translate telos in
Romans 10:4? A fundamental rule of sound Bible
study is to allow the Bible to interpret itself. In
this case, we can find other passages where Paul
wrote about the law to determine his view of it.
A good example of his perspective is found in
Romans 7:7, where he wrote: “What shall we say
then? Is the law sin? Certainly not! On the
contrary, I would not have known sin except
through the law. For I would not have known
covetousness unless the law had said, ‘You shall not covet.’”

cynosure489:

I dont have the time to go into much debate if not i would justify why the catholics titled mary queen of heaven. The literal intepretation of Rev 12 would mean the woman that gave birth to the child to rule the world is Mary however you wana take it.

what i asked that i believe you dont have an answer for is "is the title of queen of heaven actually OK for the false goddess?" -- if yes, then i rest my case.

My dear, Queen of heaven is Satanic goddess. The Catholics have been deceived into worshiping false god. The bible also warned us about making images of things in heaven... Catholics bow and pray to images /statues of Mary. The Queen of heaven is not Mary mother of Jesus. She is a demon who's mission is to mislead many. Most of Catholic doctrines, yes I mean the way they worship are not stated in the bible, it is even contrary. Read your Bible and do what your Bible says. Thanks and God bless you.

Oracle16:


My dear, Queen of heaven is Satanic goddess. The Catholics have been deceived into worshiping false god. The bible also warned us about making images of things in heaven... Catholics bow and pray to images /statues of Mary. The Queen of heaven is not Mary mother of Jesus. She is a demon who's mission is to mislead many. Most of Catholic doctrines, yes I mean the way they worship are not stated in the bible, it is even contrary. Read your Bible and do what your Bible says. Thanks and God bless you.

The bible says no image of heavenly things, yet the temple in jerusalem had images of cherubims, dont u see u are making d bible contradictory?

Ubenedictus:
The bible says no image of heavenly things, yet the temple in jerusalem had images of cherubims, dont u see u are making d bible contradictory?

Isn't this hypocrisy? You claim you have images in your church in imitation of Judaism: why are you not obeying the 10 Commandments as Israel did?

Meanwhile, did anybody ever pray to the Cherubim over the ark?

DoctorAlien:


Isn't this hypocrisy? You claim you have images in your church in imitation of Judaism: why are you not obeying the 10 Commandments as Israel did?

Meanwhile, did anybody ever pray to the Cherubim over the ark?

Because i kno the difference between a biblical example and and an outdated and surpassed command.

Ubenedictus:
Because i kno the difference between a biblical example and and an outdated and surpassed command.

Which command is "outdated" and "surpassed"?

Also, this is a biblical example: "...as His custom was, He went into the synagogue on the Sabbath day" Luke 4:16 ----Why are you not following this example?

Queen Isis was also called the queen of heaven Mother of God. And the Catholic's followed suit..

johnw74:


You like to call Mary after a false goddess
ok, continue

lol..I guess the people arguing this were never chosen to go for a debate thus diverting bitterness with every given chance..
It has been discovered by me personally that majority of people who engage in this particular argument don't want to know or learn but just slander...

Queen of heaven or not Aisha buhari is the first lady of Nigeria and I wake up one morning to say my mom is the only first lady I know so what??will you persecute me for that?
what is the first thing that comes to your mind when you see the picture of a far away friend probably how nice that person was to you and the aura the person possessed ..
so,for Catholics seeing a statue of Mary reminds us of peace,trust in God, her importance to her son and chastity every young woman should possess..
Not to spite anyone but in Pentecostal churches pastors wives are revered as much as their husbands let alone the mother of Christ
.
Catholics believe in Mary for countless reasons of which include
*Intercession in the wedding in cana Jesus clearly stated that his time to manifest had not come but she went ahead to instruct the steward to "do what ever he says"
*Even the angel Gabriel called her blessed
*To our human eye she is highly favoured she wasn't the only virgin was she?even her birth was prophesied take it or leave it,she no ordinary woman...

so instead of looking for ways to slander Catholics please win souls to Christ,do some morning cry or house to house evangelism with your extra energy and time...

Images of Mary could only remind people she is the Mother of Jesus-that's all, it doesn't mean anything, the world knows Mary's story-they practice her given birth to Jesus every year.
The point is-Mary can't save you-but Jesus is willing.
Matter of fact it's paganism to bow down before any kind of image, above on earth or under the earth, people should try asking Jesus to be their Lord and savour-He is the God of the living-not of the dead.
Jesus said: go into your secret place and pray to the Father in Heaven-He said: first seek the kingdom of God and all things shall be added to you.
Praying to other resources other then the Father-would lead your prayers unfruitful. it would never be rightly answered, and what miracle you receive could only be worldly for a sort time.
Mary was a virgin-until Jesus was born-together Mary and Joseph became parents-to-Jesus's half brothers and sisters.
Despite the close proximity, the Gospels tell us that Jesus’ own brothers didn’t believe that he was the Son of God. After witnessing the large crowds who followed Jesus, {Mark 3:21} reports, “And when his family heard it, they went out to seize "Jesus", for they were saying, He is out of his mind.”
Additionally, {John 7:5} admits, “For not even his brothers believed in him.” It’s hard to mistake what the Gospel authors report here. Jesus’ closest family members — James included — were skeptics.
So if the Catholic's need a image of Mary to help them believe Jesus existed, then obviously skepticism in the Catholic Church is still practiced today-obviously many need Mary's image to remind them 'who Jesus is..
The truth is 'soul's are won in Jesus's Name-there's no other name above-on earth and under the earth-who has the power to raise us up.
Mary is just an image-In Mary's name she can't save you, she can't raise you-and she can't give you life-she can't make choices for you-we didn't come to Jesus in Mary's name, only in Jesus's Name we are saved.

brocab:
Images of Mary could only remind people she is the Mother of Jesus-that's all, it doesn't mean anything, the world knows Mary's story-they practice her given birth to Jesus every year.
The point is-Mary can't save you-but Jesus is willing.
Matter of fact it's paganism to bow down before any kind of image, above on earth or under the earth, people should try asking Jesus to be their Lord and savour-He is the God of the living-not of the dead.
Jesus said: go into your secret place and pray to the Father in Heaven-He said: first seek the kingdom of God and all things shall be added to you.
Praying to other resources other then the Father-would lead your prayers unfruitful. it would never be rightly answered, and what miracle you receive could only be worldly for a sort time.
Mary was a virgin-until Jesus was born-together Mary and Joseph became parents-to-Jesus's half brothers and sisters.
Despite the close proximity, the Gospels tell us that Jesus’ own brothers didn’t believe that he was the Son of God. After witnessing the large crowds who followed Jesus, {Mark 3:21} reports, “And when his family heard it, they went out to seize "Jesus", for they were saying, He is out of his mind.”
Additionally, {John 7:5} admits, “For not even his brothers believed in him.” It’s hard to mistake what the Gospel authors report here. Jesus’ closest family members — James included — were skeptics.
So if the Catholic's need a image of Mary to help them believe Jesus existed, then obviously skepticism in the Catholic Church is still practiced today-obviously many need Mary's image to remind them 'who Jesus is..
The truth is 'soul's are won in Jesus's Name-there's no other name above-on earth and under the earth-who has the power to raise us up.
Mary is just an image-In Mary's name she can't save you, she can't raise you-and she can't give you life-she can't make choices for you-we didn't come to Jesus in Mary's name, only in Jesus's Name we are saved.

.....hmm

nobody has said Mary is the way to salvation...even Jesus Say's no one can come to the father except through me....yes
Mary is a channel for intercession just like she did in cana...simple and direct...

"No one had seen God at anytime, but it seems, someone had made a terrible mistake, they had rearranged {Exodus 20:4-5} turning it upside down, praying to creation, "Not the Creator.
{John 20:29} Then Jesus told him, "Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed."
Statue's are demonic, statue images of above are false god's, in most of the poorest countries around the world, what is affordable is statues of false god's, people have been taught' by praying to these statues, the image they recommend will protect them.
"What is truth, we believers, don't need statue images of Mary nor the Saints to remind us that God exist-it's simple to ask Jesus into our lives, and receive His Holy Spirit, allowing the Lord to work through us-change us, and mode us for His Creation.
{John 17:21} Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me.
The bible had never told that we can or should pray to anyone else, including the special group of people who are labeled as “saints” by the Roman Catholic church. Nor does the Bible tell us Mary is our channel to pray through.
Neither the saints nor Mary can intercede for us.
Only Jesus Christ,, "Therefore, praying to them is pointless, since Jesus is the only mediator.
{Revelation 19:10} The Angel said: Don't do that! I am a fellow servant with you and with your brothers and sisters who hold to the testimony of Jesus. Worship God!
{1 Timothy 2:5-8} For there is one God, and one mediator also between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, who gave Himself as a ransom for all, the testimony given at the proper time.
The Bible tells us that we can pray to the Father {Matthew 6:9-15} and Jesus Christ {Acts 7:59-60}

"The exclusive sovereignty of Christ clashed with Caesar's claims to his own exclusive sovereignty.
The Roman empire practiced religious syncretism and did not demand loyalty to one god, but they did demand preeminent loyalty to the state, and this was expected to be demonstrated through the practices of the state religion with numerous feast and festival days throughout the year.
The relations between the Catholic Church and the state have been constantly evolving with various forms of government, some of them controversial in retrospect.
In its history it has had to deal with various concepts and systems of governance, from the Roman Empire to the medieval divine right of kings, from nineteenth- and twentieth-century concepts of democracy and pluralism to the appearance of left- and right-wing dictatorial regimes. Although the Second Vatican Council's decree Dignitatis humanae emphasized that people must not be coerced in matters of religion, it "leaves untouched traditional Catholic doctrine on the moral duty of men and societies toward the true religion and toward the one Church of Christ", i.e., that in an ideal society the Catholic Church would be recognized as the official religion of the state.
Christianity emerged in the 1st century as one of many new religions in the Roman Empire. Early Christians were persecuted as early as 64 A.D. when Nero ordered large numbers of Christians executed in retaliation for the Great Fire of Rome.
Christianity remained a growing, albeit, minority religion in the empire for several centuries.
Roman persecutions of Christians climaxed with the Diocletianic Persecution at the turn of the 4th century.
Following Constantine the Great's victory on Milvian Bridge, which he attributed to a Christian omen he saw in the sky, the Edict of Milan declared that the empire would no longer sanction persecution of Christians.
Following Constantine's deathbed conversion in 337 all emperors adopted Christianity, except for Julian the Apostate who, during his brief reign, attempted unsuccessfully to re-instate paganism.
In the Christian era (more properly the era of the First seven Ecumenical Councils) the Church came to accept it was the Emperor's duty to use secular power to enforce religious unity, anyone within the Church who did not subscribe to Catholic Christianity was seen as a threat to the dominance and purity of "the one true faith" and they saw it as their right to defend this by all means at their disposal.
The Second Vatican Council taught further that “the fullness of the means of salvation can be obtained” through the “Catholic Church alone.”
Lest we forget, Rome has boasted that she never changes. That is—the principles of the Church’s goal of domination over personal liberty and its ultimate commitment to the eventual control of the State haven’t changed.
The repudiation of every principle of the Constitutional founding of America is essential for this to occur. This has been the dream of the Progressive movement for more than 100 years, and I thank George Neumayr for exposing the current papal zeitgeist wafting across all lands, cultures, and religions.
I suppose this was a good reason why the Pharisees rejected Jesus-they claimed the state and religious tradition..
The Pharisees hated John the Baptise-they crucified Jesus, and they murdered many of the Disciples, let alone their long prison sentences.
If we were to look at all the different religions, had this changed" Muslims murdering Christians-Christians murdering Christians, and yet Pope Francis want's to reunite them into the Catholic Church-they tried that with Hitler and he continual'ed to murder the Jews, with full support from the Catholic Church, "as history states...
Without even thinking about it, we need to return back to God, fear God, man may destroy the body-but God can destroy the body and soul, if all men repented and asked for forgiveness and returned back to God, then coming together in unity wouldn't be a problem..
We would be servicing the same God, we wouldn't need different cultures and religions, we wouldn't need man trying to reinforce leaders-to reinstate a traditional law-such as The Second Vatican Council taught further that “the fullness of the means of salvation can be obtained” through the “Catholic Church alone.”
{Galatians 2:16} know that a person is not justified by the works of the law, but by faith in Jesus Christ. So we, too, have put our faith in Christ Jesus that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law, because by the works of the law no one will be justified.
He separated us from religiosity, I for one-am not willing to return back under religious traditions-without testing the spirit that's behind it, if I was to bow down to worship-kiss the foot of an image made of wood or clay, than my heart I have for Christ is deceived.

WORSHIP IS THE MOTHER OF LOVE.
MAJESTY(EXCELLENCE) IS THE FATHER OF LOVE.
LOVE IS CHRIST, SON OF GOD, THE RIGHTEOUS.
YOU HAVE IT ALL SO FIX MARY INTO ALL OF THE ABOVE.

{Luke 11:27-28} As Jesus was saying these things, a woman in the crowd raised her voice and said, “Blessed is the womb that bore You, and blessed are the breasts that nursed You.”
But He replied, “Blessed rather are those who hear the word of God and obey it.”…
So according to this, my Mother and my brothers and sisters are those who walk with God, so Mary is not only my Mother, she is my sister too, in Christ.. For whoever does the will of my Father in heaven is my brother and sister and mother.”
"Mary is favourable-and she was a believer, but the question is, did she believe enough to teach her other siblings about Jesus and how He came into the world-did Joseph teach his siblings-how an Angel of the Lord woken him in a dream about Jesus. "James nor his brothers and sisters believed until after Jesus had risen.
{John 7:5} For neither did His brothers believe in Him, "James did not grow up a believer..
It wasn’t until Jesus’ resurrection and His appearance to James and the disciples that James finally really understood who his half brother was.
{Proverbs 22:6} God tells parents to train their Children, teach them wisdom and knowledge about God for the future..
{Matthew 12:47-50} Someone told him, “Your mother and brothers are standing outside, wanting to speak to you.”
He replied to him, “Who is my mother, and who are my brothers?” Pointing to his disciples, he said, “Here are my mother and my brothers.
For whoever does the will of My Father who is in heaven {by believing in Me, and following Me} is My brother and sister and mother.
This shows if Mary was a believer just like the rest of us-then she shouldn't be put on high to be worshipped, and after reading the scriptures ''Jesus knew His brothers and sisters and Mother didn't come to Him because they believed-they come to Him thinking Jesus is insane. Let's not forget-Jesus wasn't welcome in His hometown..{Mark 3:21, Luke 4:24}
Many Catholic's believe Mary didn't have other siblings,,,so if this is the case, then it's obvious someone had made a terrible mistake, in sharing the gospel.

Mary was not perfect or supernatural
Despite later legends and traditions, Scripture presents Mary as a completely ordinary human woman.
Mary’s song of praise indicated that she understood her own need for a Savior. We also see evidence of her limitations. For example, when Jesus disappeared from the family group on a return trip from Jerusalem {Luke 2:41–51}, he was eventually found at the Temple.
She said that she and Joseph experienced “great distress” when they were looking for Him. But think about it, after all those promises made to her, and after all that confirmation of Jesus’ specialness, how could she be afraid of anything happening to him?
Several years later, Jesus had to correct her at a wedding in the town of Cana {John 2:1–11}.
His gentle rebuke {“Woman, what does this have to do with me? My hour has not yet come.”} seems to indicate that she misunderstood their relationship.
We must not avoid the conclusion that Jesus by rebuking his mother, however courteously, declares, at the beginning of his ministry, the purpose of his coming; his only lodestar is his heavenly Father’s will {5:30; 8:29}
This must have been extremely difficult for Mary. She had borne him, nursed him, taught his baby fingers elementary skills, watched him fall over as he learned to walk; apparently she had also come to rely on him as the family provider. But now that he had entered into the purpose of his coming, everything, even family ties, had to be subordinated to his divine mission.
She could no longer view him as other mothers viewed their sons; she must no longer be allowed the prerogatives of motherhood. It is a remarkable fact that everywhere Mary occurs during the course of Jesus’ ministry, Jesus is at pains to establish distance between them {e.g. Mt. 12:46–50}.
Even later, after Jesus began his main ministry and after he had performed multiple amazing miracles and had proclaimed himself to be the Messiah, she was present with his brothers when they came to try to bring him home {Mark 3:21, 31–35; Luke 8:19–21}
They apparently thought He had gone too far, maybe even having lost His mind. Did she fail to completely understand the nature of His ministry, or of his divinity?
Jesus makes a few statements that should give us pause if we seek to elevate Mary too high:
“As he said these things, a woman in the crowd raised her voice and said to him, “Blessed is the womb that bore you, and the breasts at which you nursed!” But he said, “Blessed rather are those who hear the word of God and keep it!” {Luke 11:27–28}
That is a very important statement from Jesus. He directly parries an attempt to elevate Mary beyond her proper position. Also: “But he replied to the man who told him, “Who is my mother, and who are my brothers?” And stretching out his hand toward his disciples, he said, “Here are my mother and my brothers! For whoever does the will of my Father in heaven is my brother and sister and mother” {Matthew 12:48–50}.
This indicates that, while Mary had the honor of playing a unique role in the coming of the Messiah, her role as his mother did not give her a special position in heaven or a privileged position in salvation.
Matter of fact-Mary was the mother of many children
While the early church gave Mary the title of “ever-virgin”, and as early monasticism made chastity a virtue in and of itself, the Bible contains statements that go against this.
Scripture is clear that Joseph and Mary did not engage in relations until after Jesus was born {Matthew 1:25}—but this indicates that they had a normal married relationship afterwards.
Jesus is said to have four or five brothers and multiple sisters in Scripture {Mathew 13:55–56; Mark 6:3; Luke 8:19; John 2:12; Acts 1:14}
We even have the names of the brothers: James (the future leader of the church in Jerusalem, {Galatians 1:19}, Judas (the brother of James, {Jude 1:1}, Joseph, and Simon.3
In the Jewish view of the day, having many children would have been seen as a great blessing and a sign of God’s favor on Mary. It may have also been a comfort to have so many other children after having to relinquish the special mother-son relationship she may have expected to have with Jesus.
Mary was one of the first Christians
Even though she was the mother of Jesus, Mary needed to be saved in the way all of us are—through faith in Christ.
And she is clearly listed among the early Christians. For example, she and Jesus’ brothers were among the early disciples in Capernaum after the wedding in Cana {John 2:12}.
She was also in the ‘upper room’ where they were staying after Jesus ascended to heaven from the Mount of Olives: “All these with one accord were devoting themselves to prayer, together with the women and Mary the mother of Jesus, and his brothers” {Acts 1:14; note, the Greek word ‘brothers’ may refer to ‘brothers and sisters’}.
This is the final word Scripture tells us explicitly about Mary.
Unlike a couple of her sons, Mary did not go on to be a leader in the early church. She did not do any miracles, or give any prophecies that are recorded. She was not seen to be ‘special’ in any sense among the earliest believers and we hear nothing about her again.

The earliest and best extrabiblical traditions suggest that John was faithful to the charge Jesus gave him to take care of Mary {John 19:26–27}
One account tells us she lived with John in Ephesus where he ministered until her death. Sadly, we cannot know for sure if this is true, but it is the best-attested tradition.
Mary might be one of the witnesses behind the Gospel of Luke.
We see hints of this in the fact that Luke, the ever-careful historian and fact checker, includes personal details in his Gospel that seem to come from a personal interview with Mary, including the two statements about Mary ‘treasuring things in her heart’ we mentioned earlier, among many other similar details.
What we learn from Mary--Mary is presented in the Bible as an exemplary woman who is worthy of imitation with regard to her faith, her diligence in the Scriptures, and her godly life.
She had the unique privilege of being the mother of the Messiah, and the unique difficulty of having to give up the ‘special’ mother-child relationship to recognize Him as her Lord and Savior. Most importantly, she was saved like every Christian today is saved—by faith in Christ.
In other ways, however, her story is unique. She was the chosen person to bring about the fulfilment of the very first prophesy in the Bible, the one that promised a coming Saviour in the “proto-gospel” of {Genesis 3:15}
“And I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your offspring and hers; he will crush your head, and you will strike his heel.
”Thousands of years after that fateful scene in the Garden of Eden, a poor, young Jewish woman became a vessel for the Incarnation of the Son of God, who, as we learned before, came ‘to take away the sins of the world’.
The many hyper-rational, skeptical people alive today want us to doubt Scripture. Yet Mary gives us an example of someone who believed the Word of God without compromise, humbly, and in the face of potential shame. We would do well to imitate her belief in God’s word, and her trust in Christ.