Oluwaseytiano:
Who are the fools? Those asking questions or those blindly following ancient manuscripts written by Jewish cavemen?

the fools in Ps.14:1are those who have concluded that there is no God and live as such. Those asking questions and still searching for the truth don't fall in such category. By the way who are those following ancient manuscripts written by Jewish cavemen?

Martinez19:
the fools in Ps.14:1are those who have concluded that there is no God and live as such. Those asking questions and still searching for the truth don't fall in such category. By the way who are those following ancient manuscripts written by Jewish cavemen?

Christians, obviously

Oluwaseytiano:
Christians, obviously

you will not kill me with laughter, Christians are not called fools by the Bible but it is destructive to follow blindly as it does not bring the truth to close scrutiny and examination. Any Christian who sees archeological findings and say it is hoax or it does not exist even as they are seeing the fossils in front of them are not serious.

Martinez19:
I didn't say descriptive insult, in Ps. 14:1 Luke 24:25 one can say fools=those lacking the right wisdom and Understanding. In Matt. 5:32 one can say fools = retarded idiot (in an insulting regard).

This is a classical example of cherrypicking...choosing the verse that suits you but ignoring or condemning the verse that doesnt suit you. You want to tell me that if you call someone a fool, the person would be able to tell whether you did it to say he lacks wisdom or you ar just insulting him?

Moreover, you ddnt reply my post on evidence and the creation mathematics

We have had to fight on this for centuries; do you think ladies have roles to play in pulpit ministry?
This blog will clarify all your doubts regarding this topic.
http://www.sujiandrewsblog.tk/2016/04/do-ladies-have-place-in-pulpit-ministry.html
Be blessed as you read in the name of our lord Jesus Christ!

Edybleketara:
-----One of the misconceptions theists have about atheists is that they think atheists are people who know fully well that God exists, but instead chose not to believe in Him. Theists think atheists do not want to believe in God because they want to live a life where they will be free to sin and do whatever they like without been accounted for.

Some become atheist because of this. atheism is not a group of people with the same minds. You can speak for yourself but not others.

-----Some even think that deep down atheists actually know that God exists, but they are just angry with God cos of one misfortune or the other that happened in their life and therefore chose to rebel against God. In a nutshell, theists think people become atheists because they want to be free to do bad things. This is a very big misconception about atheists.

Some become atheists cos of that too. Are u there spokesman?

----On the contrary, atheists are honest people who search deligently for TRUTH and FACTS. We simply live in search of truth, using logic and reason to come to our decisions. In doing so, it has become obvious that there is simply no proof of religious claims. Therefore, we deem those claims UNBELIVEABLE. We are not saying those religious claims are 100% false, there is just no evidence to believe they are true.

That sounds like a general statement to me. Atheists do not have such body of beliefs that they all adhere to.

Be sure that not all that claim to be atheists are really atheists. some just use it as a cover up.

----Our disbelieve in God is not out of defiance or to make mockery of God and religion or to be free to sin. As an atheist, i personally feel it will be a complete waste of my time to believe and worship something that i dont think exist.

Of course, it is not wise to worship what does not exist, but God exists. What makes u think he does not?

---So until this misconception is done away with by theists, they can never get through to atheists. They can never understand we atheists or why people decide to become atheists. It will always be a mystery to them.

All I want to advise is that you speak for urself, not others.

And do not also misconceive all theists as people who do not sincerely search for truth and as those who eschew reason. Many theists believe in God with good reasons.

JMAN05:


That sounds like a general statement to me. Atheists do not have such body of beliefs that they all adhere to.

Using Logic and reason to evaluate propositions is not a body of belief, it is a necessity.

Of course, it is not wise to worship what does not exist, but God exists. What makes u think he does not?

Better question is What makes you think he does?, where is your reason and evidence for believing he exists?

All I want to advise is that you speak for urself, not others.

I think he did a nice job describing atheist in a broad sense, i dont see why you are troubled by this

Many theists believe in God with good reasons.

What might those reasons be, if i may ask?

donnffd:


This is a classical example of cherrypicking...choosing the verse that suits you but ignoring or condemning the verse that doesnt suit you. You want to tell me that if you call someone a fool, the person would be able to tell whether you did it to say he lacks wisdom or you ar just insulting him?

Moreover, you ddnt reply my post on evidence and the creation mathematics

No cherry picking that was why I backed up the difference by telling you to go to the originals also. Before I give you the story of creation, have you thought about the 'first and fourth day' I told you? What does the word 'day' represent? If the sun, moon and stars were not created until the 'fourth day', what 'light' was the writer talking about in the 'first day' shall I proceed to creation story?

Martinez19:
No cherry picking that was why I backed up the difference by telling you to go to the originals also. Before I give you the story of creation, have you thought about the 'first and fourth day' I told you? What does the word 'day' represent? If the sun, moon and stars were not created until the 'fourth day', what 'light' was the writer talking about in the 'first day' shall I proceed to creation story?

Yes, please do proceed!, i am all eyes

donnffd:


Yes, please do proceed!, i am all eyes

In the beginning, God created the heaven and earth, meaning that before creation on earth began, the earth and heavens were already established and by referring to the originals, we see that the heavens and the earth represents the unseen world and the visible world respectively. We can also see in Gen. 2:2 that this earth was without form and void and the Spirit of the lord was hovering on the face of the waters so you see water existed before creation.
Then God said let there be light and there was light. What could this light mean? In the original text in hebrew, the correct statement was let light be. So you see this light was in existence in the beginning and was curtailed initially only to be unleashed at God's command. I tell you that this light was Jesus and He was the important and essential factor of creation John 1:1-17, John 1:3, John 8:12, Col. 1:16.
That was the first 'day'. Day? but the moon, sun and stars were not created yet so what could this day mean. What Moses called day in Gen. 1:5 was a 'time' frame of measurement in the unseen world and this 'time' frame of measurement or phase is different from that of the visible world. Things in this unseen world called spirit world are not subject to time so nothing grows and nothing decays so it is an immortal world. When specific creations were done in each day, each had to take time to materialize in the visible world For example compare Gen. 1:11-13 and Gen. 1:27 with Gen. 2:4-7. So you see things were done and dusted in the unseen realm but require time to manifest as prepared by the Holy Spirit.
If God had created them male and female already, how come he still needed to create Adam from soil and breath the breathe of life in Adam. As I have said, the creation of man(and his entire generation) was created in the unseen world Ps. 90:1-2 and we all dwelled in God. So when God molded Adam from dust, what he molded was not the real Adam but his earthly body and that breathe of life was the transfer of Adam's spirit to his body. Adam's generation were in his body. If God created them male and female, where was Eve? so you see it required time for what God had done to manifest systematically. Most Christians think that when people are born, they came from heaven It is wrong.
The second activity of creation was the division of water(one above and one below), the firmament is what we see as the sky and this sky was lined uniformly by the body of water above. It was due to the introduction of death by Adam's fall(as I explained in a previous post) that this layer could no longer be sustained at since it uniformly lined the earth's atmosphere, it's disintegration and breakdown led to a worldwide flood in the days of Noah in form of a heavy down poor.
Before I go to the creation of sun, moon, stars, and plant and animal life, any lack of clarity or disagreement?

Martinez19:
In the beginning, God created the heaven and earth, meaning that before creation on earth began, the earth and heavens were already established and by referring to the originals, we see that the heavens and the earth represents the unseen world and the visible world respectively. We can also see in Gen. 2:2 that this earth was without form and void and the Spirit of the lord was hovering on the face of the waters so you see water existed before creation.
Then God said let there be light and there was light. What could this light mean? In the original text in hebrew, the correct statement was let light be. So you see this light was in existence in the beginning and was curtailed initially only to be unleashed at God's command. I tell you that this light was Jesus and He was the important and essential factor of creation John 1:1-17, John 1:3, John 8:12, Col. 1:16.
That was the first 'day'. Day? but the moon, sun and stars were not created yet so what could this day mean. What Moses called day in Gen. 1:5 was a 'time' frame of measurement in the unseen world and this 'time' frame of measurement or phase is different from that of the visible world. Things in this unseen world called spirit world are not subject to time so nothing grows and nothing decays so it is an immortal world. When specific creations were done in each day, each had to take time to materialize in the visible world For example compare Gen. 1:11-13 and Gen. 1:27 with Gen. 2:4-7. So you see things were done and dusted in the unseen realm but require time to manifest as prepared by the Holy Spirit.
If God had created them male and female already, how come he still needed to create Adam from soil and breath the breathe of life in Adam. As I have said, the creation of man(and his entire generation) was created in the unseen world Ps. 90:1-2 and we all dwelled in God. So when God molded Adam from dust, what he molded was not the real Adam but his earthly body and that breathe of life was the transfer of Adam's spirit to his body. Adam's generation were in his body. If God created them male and female, where was Eve? so you see it required time for what God had done to manifest systematically. Most Christians think that when people are born, they came from heaven It is wrong.
The second activity of creation was the division of water(one above and one below), the firmament is what we see as the sky and this sky was lined uniformly by the body of water above. It was due to the introduction of death by Adam's fall(as I explained in a previous post) that this layer could no longer be sustained at since it uniformly lined the earth's atmosphere, it's disintegration and breakdown led to a worldwide flood in the days of Noah in form of a heavy down poor.
Before I go to the creation of sun, moon, stars, and plant and animal life, any lack of clarity or disagreement?

Nice analysis, but there are missing links and disparities. How can you know things came from the unseen realm if the realm is unseen? Does dat explanation corresponds to what we know about the natural world? I think not.

First off, i can analysis a story well like harry potter and the chambers of secrets, and read quotations from the book but that doesnt mean the story is true, what makes something true? Or at least close to the truth? If there is evidence for it. Now i have told you that genesis is not an accurate description of the orgin of our universe, but you keep citing it, so if we are going to even use it as a basis, you have to show that it is trusted to be used.

How can you show me that genesis should be taken seriously? Give me concrete reason why i should trust Moses revelation and not assume since he ddnt understand science,he too must have erred like joshua, why someone in the stone age would write about an event in which he wasnt there and you would trust his description rather than look at all the evidence available to us in the 21st century?

So basically what i am asking is why are you using the bible to prove the bible? Its a flawed enterprise, the bible is not a science textbook! You cant use it has basis for the origin of the universe when it clearly doesnt corresponds to the evidence!!!

donnffd:


Nice analysis, but there are missing links and disparities. How can you know things came from the unseen realm if the realm is unseen? Does dat explanation corresponds to what we know about the natural world? I think not.

First off, i can analysis a story well like harry potter and the chambers of secrets, and read quotations from the book but that doesnt mean the story is true, what makes something true? Or at least close to the truth? If there is evidence for it. Now i have told you that genesis is not an accurate description of the orgin of our universe, but you keep citing it, so if we are going to even use it as a basis, you have to show that it is trusted to be used.

How can you show me that genesis should be taken seriously? Give me concrete reason why i should trust Moses revelation and not assume since he ddnt understand science,he too must have erred like joshua, why someone in the stone age would write about an event in which he wasnt there and you would trust his description rather than look at all the evidence available to us in the 21st century?

So basically what i am asking is why are you using the bible to prove the bible? Its a flawed enterprise, the bible is not a science textbook! You cant use it has basis for the origin of the universe when it clearly doesnt corresponds to the evidence!!!

I get your point donnffd, to grasp things like this, it is only by faith Hebrew. 11:3 so you see no evidence, you must believe. No one searching for God with evidences and scientific methods can attest to God's existence ultimately. There comes a part were faith plays a role. By the way who says science is the only legal way to which answers of the origin can be explained and before they debunk faith have they tried it the way it should be done.

Martinez19:
I get your point donnffd, to grasp things like this, it is only by faith Hebrew. 11:3 so you see no evidence, you must believe. No one searching for God with evidences and scientific methods can attest to God's existence ultimately. There comes a part were faith plays a role. By the way who says science is the only legal way to which answers of the origin can be explained and before they debunk faith have they tried it the way it should be done.

Noone said science is the only legal way, but it is the only one that works for now and we can see its effects.
Believing without evidence, thats the fundamental difference between a theist and an atheist...

donnffd:


Noone said science is the only legal way, but it is the only one that works for now and we can see its effects.
Believing without evidence, thats the fundamental difference between a theist and an atheist...

I actually love science especially physics. Science is able to account for physical facts proposed by the Bible since evidences are physical. But the Bible tells us that all physical things have spiritual foundation and even our physical world is a reflection of this spirit world. To accept the existence of this unseen world, it is by faith and that is the limit of science were evidence is the proof of things.

Martinez19:
I actually love science especially physics. Science is able to account for physical facts proposed by the Bible since evidences are physical. But the Bible tells us that all physical things have spiritual foundation and even our physical world is a reflection of this spirit world. To accept the existence of this unseen world, it is by faith and that is the limit of science were evidence is the proof of things.

What about the physical facts that science accounts for, that the bible doesnt?

You know the muslims would also claim that the quran talked about the big bang and the expansion of the universe

Jews would also claim that the Torah doesnt contradict science.

You said to accept, you need FAITH, but my question is how sure are you that you have faith in the right one?
what if muslims were right, and allah is the one true God, or Mormonism was right or Hindus and Lord Vishnu is the Creator of the universe!
why do you strongly feel that christianity is the right way even though its chances of being the right religion is 0.005% literally

donnffd:


What about the physical facts that science accounts for, that the bible doesnt?

You know the muslims would also claim that the quran talked about the big bang and the expansion of the universe

Jews would also claim that the Torah doesnt contradict science.

You said to accept, you need FAITH, but my question is how sure are you that you have faith in the right one?
what if muslims were right, and allah is the one true God, or Mormonism was right or Hindus and Lord Vishnu is the Creator of the universe!
why do you strongly feel that christianity is the right way even though its chances of being the right religion is 0.005% literally

I am sure Christianity is the right one because I have had certain encounter with God. God has never failed me. He is the one who can give you the knowledge of the Bible as I have given you. I tell you, He is real and invisible. I have encountered Him. The problem of man is that they couldn't explain certain things and instead of searching it, they attributed it to higher powers. Some desiring worship started a religion for themselves. Others came up with philosophical doctrines to meet the needs of peace and security of the future. Many are due to demons even our traditional gods. Even in the church, you know that different interpretations can't be right at the same time the truth is One. The different doctrines in church is due poor understanding of the preacher, fake prophets operating under the license of demons, prophets who are not called by God but came for money making, incorporating traditional believes into Christian practice, some got their religious disposition from the family they were born into so you see, they can't change. It is not every physical fact the Bible accounts for since the purpose of the bible is to get the full knowledge of Christ.

donnffd:


Using Logic and reason to evaluate propositions is not a body of belief, it is a necessity.

Which proposition are you talking about? he said:

On the contrary, atheists are honest people who search deligently for TRUTH and FACTS. We simply live in search of truth, using logic and reason to come to our decisions. In doing so, it has become obvious that there is simply no proof of religious claims

Does this describe ALL atheists? is that there goal? are all of them sincere seekers of truth? How many atheists do you even know to make such general statement? atheism is not a formal religion with a body of belief. Many do not live in search of truth.


[quote[Better question is What makes you think he does?, where is your reason and evidence for believing he exists?[/quote[


The anus in on the one who made that statement„ if he has no reason for disbelieving in God, that shows how hilarious his post is.

I think he did a nice job describing atheist in a broad sense, i dont see why you are troubled by this

If atheism is what they claim to be, its better u speak for ursef, not others. I wonder why you are troubled by this either, is he ur pastor?

What might those reasons be, if i may ask?

when u give urs above„ I ll give mine.

JMAN05:


when u give urs above„ I ll give mine.

I am told by christians there is a supernatural being in the sky who cant be seen,felt,smelt,heard or tasted but controls the forces of nature and wants you to worship him unless he burns you in hell forever and you must believe in his son that he sent to die for the sins of the world,just so he can forgive the world!!!!

I am told by muslims there is a supernatural being in the sky who created the universe but cant be conceived and you can only worship him by following the teachings of his prophet Mohammad...

I am told by hindus that the creator of the universe is Vishnu and he sent his son krishna to enlighten the world...

I was also told that ancient greeks believed zeus to be the king of the gods and he and his minions interfere and sometimes even mingle wit mere mortals.

Well, i have been told alot of things, many of them self-contradictory, but no single evidence for it...so with my thinking brain, and my knowledge of science, i reject these claims until reasonable evidence suffice.....
Is that too much to ask for?

donnffd:


I am told by christians there is a supernatural being in the sky who cant be seen,felt,smelt,heard or tasted but controls the forces of nature and wants you to worship him unless he burns you in hell forever and you must believe in his son that he sent to die for the sins of the world,just so he can forgive the world!!!!

I am told by muslims there is a supernatural being in the sky who created the universe but cant be conceived and you can only worship him by following the teachings of his prophet Mohammad...

I am told by hindus that the creator of the universe is Vishnu and he sent his son krishna to enlighten the world...

I was also told that ancient greeks believed zeus to be the king of the gods and he and his minions interfere and sometimes even mingle wit mere mortals.

Well, i have been told alot of things, many of them self-contradictory, but no single evidence for it...so with my thinking brain, and my knowledge of science, i reject these claims until reasonable evidence suffice.....
Is that too much to ask for?

Good one. No reasonable and logical human being will accept any of those fables and myths.

donnffd:


I am told by christians there is a supernatural being in the sky who cant be seen,felt,smelt,heard or tasted but controls the forces of nature and wants you to worship him unless he burns you in hell forever and you must believe in his son that he sent to die for the sins of the world,just so he can forgive the world!!!!

I am told by muslims there is a supernatural being in the sky who created the universe but cant be conceived and you can only worship him by following the teachings of his prophet Mohammad...

I am told by hindus that the creator of the universe is Vishnu and he sent his son krishna to enlighten the world...

I was also told that ancient greeks believed zeus to be the king of the gods and he and his minions interfere and sometimes even mingle wit mere mortals.

Well, i have been told alot of things, many of them self-contradictory, but no single evidence for it...so with my thinking brain, and my knowledge of science, i reject these claims until reasonable evidence suffice.....
Is that too much to ask for?

It is a lie that God can't be seen and heard. God does not force anyone to serve Him.

donnffd:


I am told by christians there is a supernatural being in the sky who cant be seen,felt,smelt,heard or tasted but controls the forces of nature and wants you to worship him unless he burns you in hell forever and you must believe in his son that he sent to die for the sins of the world,just so he can forgive the world!!!!

I am told by muslims there is a supernatural being in the sky who created the universe but cant be conceived and you can only worship him by following the teachings of his prophet Mohammad...

I am told by hindus that the creator of the universe is Vishnu and he sent his son krishna to enlighten the world...

I was also told that ancient greeks believed zeus to be the king of the gods and he and his minions interfere and sometimes even mingle wit mere mortals.

Well, i have been told alot of things, many of them self-contradictory, but no single evidence for it...so with my thinking brain, and my knowledge of science, i reject these claims until reasonable evidence suffice.....
Is that too much to ask for?

That is ur decision sir. Not that there is no reasonable evidence, but u choose what u call reasonable.