To Muslims, nothing happens unless it is the will of Allah and before Allah, humans are helpless to effect any change by themselves. Allah has no helpers and no associates, no intermediaries and none should be worshipped except Allah and Allah must be worshipped only according to laid down procedure or dictates of Mohammed his first and last prophet. As bad as all the other Abrahamic prophets were, none tried to force the whole world to adopt their personally conceptualised spiritual procedure, only Mohammed did that. He was the pioneer of that amongst Prophets. The Muslim Allah of Mohammed is the only person who determines destiny.

That is Islam which wants us to think we are helpless. To us as Aborishas we are masters of our destinies, not God, who is Olodumare to us and Allah to Mohammed's parents. His father was named Abdullahi. One thing is that if we maintain the path of righteousness, Olodumare will provide resources for us to achieve our dreams or plans. We agree we live in a matrix but we believe it is fluid and not static. Hence the saying. Bo ni tiri ola o ri bee lo difa fun Babalawo to n difa oroorun which means 'Today is not like tomorrow was Ifa's message for the Babalawo who consults Ifa every five days meaning every week.'. I may turn to a cobra and back to a human being either as part of an entertainment troupe or to observe a ritual. That will be my personal choice using the power of Olodumare not the plan of Olodumare. So unlike Muslims, we Aborishas are not helpless under Allah. I can effect change whether for good or bad. If good, Olodumare will support and if bad, Olodumare will be against it. Olodumare is to us and the irunmales what the US President is to the US.

Final position on July 30 2022

We have plans which we involve in self interested actions to bring to pass but the actual destination or destiny is known and determined only by the Invisible hand which is God as conceptualized by Adam Smith the Scottish philosopher of the eighteenth century but we must always take part in self interested actions without leaving anything to Olodumare(God) from the beginning to the end.

Ok

Hmm,guess you just graduated from primary school ryhme to secondary school prose.

The concept of preordainment and predestination lie solely with the scholars of Islam and not just for "ignorants" like you ( pardon my confrontation). It is so wide and needs brighter explanation unlike the fabricated fable of the yoruba dumb-ideology that leaves nothing to be desired of. ¤¤ go learn ¤¤

Muaadh:
Hmm,guess you just graduated from primary school ryhme to secondary school prose.

The concept of preordainment and predestination lie solely with the scholars of Islam and not just for "ignorants" like you ( pardon my confrontation). It is so wide and needs brighter explanation unlike the fabricated fable of the yoruba dumb-ideology that leaves nothing to be desired of. ¤¤ go learn ¤¤

We Aborisha do not rest on our oars waiting for God like mugus. We are authours of our own destiny. The theology is different from Islam. The zombie theologies of Islam and Christianity have to be banned to save the Earth.

We have plans which we involve in self interested actions to bring to pass but the actual destination or destiny is known and determined only by the Invisible hand which is God as conceptualized by Adam Smith the Scottish philosopher of the eighteenth century but we must always take part in self interested actions without leaving anything to Olodumare(God) from the beginning to the end.

lawani:
To Muslims, nothing happens unless it is the will of Allah and before Allah, humans are helpless to effect any change by themselves. Allah has no helpers and no associates, no intermediaries and none should be worshipped except Allah and Allah must be worshipped only according to laid down procedure or dictates of Mohammed his first and last prophet. As bad as all the other Abrahamic prophets were, none tried to force the whole world to adopt their personally conceptualised spiritual procedure, only Mohammed did that. He was the pioneer of that amongst Prophets. The Muslim Allah of Mohammed is the only person who determines destiny.

That is Islam which wants us to think we are helpless. To us as Aborishas we are masters of our destinies, not God, who is Olodumare to us and Allah to Mohammed's parents. His father was named Abdullahi. One thing is that if we maintain the path of righteousness, Olodumare will provide resources for us to achieve our dreams or plans. We agree we live in a matrix but we believe it is fluid and not static. Hence the saying. Bo ni tiri ola o ri bee lo difa fun Babalawo to n difa oroorun which means 'Today is not like tomorrow was Ifa's message for the Babalawo who consults Ifa every five days meaning every week.'. I may turn to a cobra and back to a human being either as part of an entertainment troupe or to observe a ritual. That will be my personal choice using the power of Olodumare not the plan of Olodumare. So unlike Muslims, we Aborishas are not helpless under Allah. I can effect change whether for good or bad. If good, Olodumare will support and if bad, Olodumare will be against it. Olodumare is to us and the irunmales what the US President is to the US.

Very interesting position.

lawani:
To Muslims, nothing happens unless it is the will of Allah and before Allah, humans are helpless to effect any change by themselves. Allah has no helpers and no associates, no intermediaries and none should be worshipped except Allah and Allah must be worshipped only according to laid down procedure or dictates of Mohammed his first and last prophet. As bad as all the other Abrahamic prophets were, none tried to force the whole world to adopt their personally conceptualised spiritual procedure, only Mohammed did that. He was the pioneer of that amongst Prophets. The Muslim Allah of Mohammed is the only person who determines destiny.

That is Islam which wants us to think we are helpless. To us as Aborishas we are masters of our destinies, not God, who is Olodumare to us and Allah to Mohammed's parents. His father was named Abdullahi. One thing is that if we maintain the path of righteousness, Olodumare will provide resources for us to achieve our dreams or plans. We agree we live in a matrix but we believe it is fluid and not static. Hence the saying. Bo ni tiri ola o ri bee lo difa fun Babalawo to n difa oroorun which means 'Today is not like tomorrow was Ifa's message for the Babalawo who consults Ifa every five days meaning every week.'. I may turn to a cobra and back to a human being either as part of an entertainment troupe or to observe a ritual. That will be my personal choice using the power of Olodumare not the plan of Olodumare. So unlike Muslims, we Aborishas are not helpless under Allah. I can effect change whether for good or bad. If good, Olodumare will support and if bad, Olodumare will be against it. Olodumare is to us and the irunmales what the US President is to the US.

Orisirisi on Nairaland.

Mr. Aborisha, ride on.

Lukuluku69:


Orisirisi on Nairaland.

Mr. Aborisha, ride on.

Ride on too just keep to your lane and don't come to my surrounding to describe God as a mad man.

lawani:
Ride on too just keep to your lane and don't come to my surrounding to describe God as a mad man.

Does Olodumare promise you a destination after death or is it a return trip back to earth after death?,

Kobojunkie:
Does Olodumare promise you a destination after death or is it a return trip back to earth after death?,

Everything in this dimension is an image of the other dimension and people are being sent to this dimension by incarnation of people in the other dimensions until this dimension becomes perfect like the other dimension of Olodumare.

lawani:
Everything in this dimension is an image of the other dimension and people are being sent to this dimension by incarnation of people in the other dimensions until this dimension becomes perfect like the other dimension of Olodumare.

So this is a cloning Job going on here of what is another dimension? So how does this dimension become as perfect as the other dimension?

Kobojunkie:
So this is a cloning Job going on here of what is another dimension? So how does this dimension become as perfect as the other dimension?

We were all sent here to make this place better as a whole but majority of us focus on ourselves and the people under our immediate jurisdiction especially our children while not bothering about others. If enough people do the job they were sent here from the other dimension to do,brhen Earth will become a paradise in one decade and there will be immense advancement in all sectors of human endeavour until the civilization ends.

lawani:
We were all sent here to make this place better as a whole but majority of us focus on ourselves and the people under our immediate jurisdiction especially our children while not bothering about others. If enough people do the job they were sent here from the other dimension to do,brhen Earth will become a paradise in one decade and there will be immense advancement in all sectors of human endeavour until the civilization ends.

So the job of perfection involves advancements in all sectors of what is human science?

That is the cloning job we are all here on earth for? If we are most of us broken - focused on selfish desires - how then or when do you expect perfection will ever be reached? How many more billions of souls will be needed to accomplish that task?

Àwọn abọ̀rìṣà ti gbà'jọba!!!


Seun, a section needs to be created for traditionalists too o.

Kobojunkie:
So the job of perfection involves advancements in all sectors of what is human science?

That is the cloning job we are all here on earth for? If we are most of us broken - focused on selfish desires - how then or when do you expect perfection will ever be reached? How many more billions of souls will be needed to accomplish that task?

Do your part because major advancements in any sector can be championed by only one person and the rest of us will conform but if nobody at all is when there will be problem

lawani:

Do your part because major advancements in any sector can be championed by only one person and the rest of us will conform but if nobody at all is when there will be problem

I don't understand. Why does perfection have to be about these advancements ? Why not something better or more meaningful??

Kobojunkie:
I don't understand. Why does perfection have to be about these advancements ? Why not something better or more meaningful??

You are not making sense.

lawani:


Ride on too just keep to your lane and don't come to my surrounding to describe God as a mad man.

You be better on your own lane if you didn't drag Islam into your orisirisi you put up on Nairaland.

And who describe God has a mad man?

Kobojunkie:
I don't understand. Why does perfection have to be about these advancements ? Why not something better or more meaningful??

Advancement is only towards perfection. If you make something better, more efficient and etc then you are moving towards perfection

lawani:
Advancement is only towards perfection. If you make something better, more efficient and etc then you are moving towards perfection

can humans, an imperfect species, really ever derive or achieve perfection?

Before oyinbo came to the shores of Nigerians, Manu of you olodumare worshippers didn't really concern yourselves with the science of the white man and his many accomplishments up until that point in time, but here you now tell us that Olodumare's plan is for men to achieve perfection in what is really been majorly the science of the oyinbo, how come?

Kobojunkie:
can humans, an imperfect species, really ever derive or achieve perfection?

Before oyinbo came to the shores of Nigerians, Manu of you olodumare worshippers didn't really concern yourselves with the science of the white man and his many accomplishments up until that point in time, but here you now tell us that Olodumare's plan is for men to achieve perfection in what is really been majorly the science of the oyinbo, how come?

Ignorant fool, the first industry was in africa. Look up oldowan industry.
The first people that ruled europe was black.

Kobojunkie:
can humans, an imperfect species, really ever derive or achieve perfection?

Before oyinbo came to the shores of Nigerians, Manu of you olodumare worshippers didn't really concern yourselves with the science of the white man and his many accomplishments up until that point in time, but here you now tell us that Olodumare's plan is for men to achieve perfection in what is really been majorly the science of the oyinbo, how come?

Perfection on Earth can be defined then we work towards it

No more wars.
Even development
Longer life spans
Cheap energy and possible eradication of fossil fuel..
Zero poverty.
Fulfilling jobs for every worker
Every human being on Earth becomes a PhD before age 60.
No autocratic governments
Development of academic theology and a ban on the public propagation of Islam and Christianity.
Rich and high quality of life.


If all the above can be achieved then the world has become perfect enough but as it is not perfect at all. However when all the above is achieved, new issues will immediately arise.

lawani:
Perfection on Earth can be defined then we work towards it

No more wars.
Even development
Longer life spans
Cheap energy and possible eradication of fossil fuel..
Zero poverty.
Fulfilling jobs for every worker
Every human being on Earth becomes a PhD before age 60.
No autocratic governments
Development of academic theology and a ban on the public propagation of Islam and Christianity.
Rich and high quality of life.


If all the above can be achieved then the world has become perfect enough but as it is not perfect at all. However when all the above is achieved, new issues will immediately arise.

This is what Olodumare considers the standard of perfection for man in this dimension.

Kobojunkie:
This is what Olodumare considers the standard of perfection for man in this dimension.

you prefer heaven and hell?

Kobojunkie:
This is what Olodumare considers the standard of perfection for man in this dimension.

That will be a paradise compared to what presently is obtainable. When that one is achieved, then you set new targets like longer life span, space exploration or even immortality. Those are all possibilities but you must be a degree holder to be admitted for MSc. What I described if achieved would be perfect for now

lawani:
1. That will be a paradise compared to what presently is obtainable.

2. When that one is achieved, then you set new targets like longer life span, space exploration or even immortality. Those are all possibilities but you must be a degree holder to be admitted for MSc. What I described if achieved would be perfect for now

Well, your personal idea of paradise may not be my personal idea of what paradise should be hence the reason why I asked if that list is yours of Olodumare's actual list.

2. If you have to set new targets after that list there is attained, then that means what you have isn't perfection. If all perfection is simply the same as what we are used to which are continually moving targets, then how can we call it perfection?

Kobojunkie:
Well, your personal idea of paradise may not be my personal idea of what paradise should be hence the reason why I asked if that list is yours of Olodumare's actual list.

2. If you have to set new targets after that list there is attained, then that means what you have isn't perfection. If all perfection is simply the same as what we are used to which are continually moving targets, then how can we call it perfection?

What is your own idea of perfection?. If you don't have any then there is a problem because you will not be able to go forward but backwards.

lawani:
What is your own idea of perfection?. If you don't have any then there is a problem because you will not be able to go forward but backwards.

My expectation is that the creator's notion of perfection is beyond that which the human minds can conceive.

My idea of perfection cannot be achieved by humans because humans are by nature are fallible.

Kobojunkie:
Well, your personal idea of paradise may not be my personal idea of what paradise should be hence the reason why I asked if that list is yours of Olodumare's actual list.

2. If you have to set new targets after that list there is attained, then that means what you have isn't perfection. If all perfection is simply the same as what we are used to which are continually moving targets, then how can we call it perfection?

There are different types of perfection. To be perfect in character is the easiest and everybody must attain that but a drawing, the delivery of a project and etc can not reach the end of perfection while an individual can in character.

Kobojunkie:
My expectation is that the creator's notion of perfection is beyond that which the human minds can conceive.

My idea of perfection cannot be achieved by humans because humans are by nature are fallible.

We are a miniature form of the creator. Image of the creator is what we are as individuals. According to the Yoruba theology, when Olodumare want to embark on anything, he will summon his Awos for consultation

lawani:


We are a miniature form of the creator. Image of the creator is what we are as individuals. According to the Yoruba theology, when Olodumare want to embark on anything, he will summon his Awos for consultation

But you know in yoruba mythology, Olodumare is aloof.
It was obatala that created humans and earth with the help of Olodumare first born, orunmila.
And in yoruba mythology, Olodumare is not the only supreme god, olokun is also at par with him.

lawani:

There are different types of perfection. To be perfect in character is the easiest and everybody must attain that but a drawing, the delivery of a project and etc can not reach the end of perfection while an individual can in character.

So which type of perfection are we expected to attain by those of the other dimension?