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Nairaland Forum / Nairaland / General / Religion / Islam for Muslims / Agege For Show. Innaa Lillaahi Wa Innaa Ilayhi Rooji'oon (6990 Views)
Are There Any Remnants From The Prophet (Sallalahu Alayhi Wa Salam)? / Ma Salam Wa Bi Salam (let's Talk Arabic) / Mudir Morkaz Agege And The Dangers Of Sufism (2) (3) (4)
Re: Agege For Show. Innaa Lillaahi Wa Innaa Ilayhi Rooji'oon by Empiree: 2:31pm On Aug 08, 2016 |
AlBaqir:Don't complicate it at all. My aim is as clear as day light |
Re: Agege For Show. Innaa Lillaahi Wa Innaa Ilayhi Rooji'oon by AlBaqir(m): 2:40pm On Aug 08, 2016 |
Empiree: Brother mi, your statement is as clear as daylight though it seemed to have contradicted your aim. Do you believe in the ismat of the Aimmat of Ahl al-Bayt or not? Why making comparison where none exist?! How can you compare the so-called sahih of a book that its supposed author know nothing about? And even if Imam Bukhari was the author, for argument sake, was he a masoom? |
Re: Agege For Show. Innaa Lillaahi Wa Innaa Ilayhi Rooji'oon by Empiree: 2:51pm On Aug 08, 2016 |
AlBaqir:ok, let me clear myself before I get crucified I was basically saying that how could Sahih Bukhari be 100% valid without error?. So i meant what's the point of criticizing Shia's "inffaliable imamate" when he's also believe the same thing with respect to Sahih Hadith. In another word, saying Bukhari is error free is like saying it's inffaliable. |
Re: Agege For Show. Innaa Lillaahi Wa Innaa Ilayhi Rooji'oon by Newnas(m): 3:33pm On Aug 08, 2016 |
Empiree: I never said all shia are disbelievers. First, not every innovator is a disbeliever. Secondly, not everyone who does an act of disbelief automatically becomes a disbeliever because he might be compelled or ignorant. Thirdly, Not all shia have the beliefs that take them out of Islam like this AlBaqir. The beliefs that make this AlBaqir an infidel are his # belief that the Quran has been distorted, #belief that the companions are disbelievers, #belief that their Imams are more virtuous than the messengers Alyhimussalam etc. What other difference is left between the believer and the disbelievers? As for the men of Bukharee and Muslim who are shia, this doesn't confuse any student of knowledge because: # The shia are not the only innovators accepted by the two sheikhs. This is a sign of justice among the people of sunnah, if a person posses knowledge and is known with truthfulness his report is accepted. Ahlu sunnah are not partisan. # The innovation of shism started as given preference to Ali over Abu Bakr and Umar and Uthman. As far as this is wrong it doesn't take one out of the fold of Islam. Then a cursed generation came after them and they innovated curses for Abu Bakr and Umar and other companions rodiyaLLaahu anhum. They also innovated the belief of twelve imams and belief in their infallibility. They innovated their time of Solah and type of ablution. I remember when I first got to this section, AlBaqir always claimed that he doesn't curse any companion that it's only the zaydiyah (or yazeediyyah) that curse the companions. But with time he showed his true colours. In other words he lied, this lie is not a mistake rather it's a basic shia creed known as TAQIYYAH!!! 1 Like |
Re: Agege For Show. Innaa Lillaahi Wa Innaa Ilayhi Rooji'oon by sino(m): 5:05pm On Aug 08, 2016 |
Empiree:Empiree, I do no write to convince, I state facts and appropriate explanations from scholars. It suffices me that the issue of rajm is an issue of abrogation and abrogation are of different types, and the type as explained by scholars, is an abrogation of the verse without the abrogation of the rulings. And I was talking about shi’ah and believe of their scholars that the Qur’an is incomplete is quite different from the understanding of abrogated verses. Here is a brief explanation on abrogation of verses in the Qur’an: Abrogation of Verses Allah (subhanahu wa ta’ala) says in the Holy Qur’an: ما ننسخ من آية أو ننسها نأت بخير منها أو مثلها Whichever verse We abrogate or cause to be forgotten, We bring one better than it or like it. (2:106) The scholars have observed three kinds of abrogation. The first is the abrogation of the ruling alone. The second is the abrogation of the ruling and the recitation. The third is the abrogation of recitation alone. The existence in the abrogation of recitation is a commonly accepted view according to many Islamic scholars, even ones from outside the Sunni school. Jalal Al-Deen Al-Suyuti in his Al-Itqaan quotes several examples of this form. Such narrations usually include a companion saying, “We used to read such and such during the life of the Prophet.” When returning to the Qur’an, we do not find these verses within it. Scholars refer to such as an abrogation of verses. Even though the abrogation of recitation has been something that has always been accepted by Muslim scholars, we do find that there are some that have doubted the existence of it. Their main argument is that they do not see the wisdom of such a thing and that abrogation of recitation creates nothing but confusion. However, such an argument holds no weight, since it is not required for the creation to understand the wisdom of the actions of Allah as a requirement to accepting those actions. According to Sulaiman Al-Lahim, in his introduction to Al-Nahhas’ Al-Nasikh wal Mansookh (1/118), one of the wisdoms of the existence of the abrogation of recitation is that it makes the Qur’an easier to memorize. He quoted the following verse: الآن خفف الله عنكم وعلم أن فيكم ضعفا For the present Allah has made light your burden, and He knows that there is weakness in you. (8:66) By returning to the context of the verse, we find that Allah is decreasing what He expects from the Muslims at war. This is indeed a mercy upon them, for they were expected to stand up to armies that are up to ten times in number, but then the number was decreased to twice in number. Similarly, the abrogation of those verses is a form of mercy as well, since Allah’s words can never run out, and having the Qur’an in its final state makes it easier to memorize than what it could have been if no abrogation of recitation existed. Al-Suyuti in Al-Itqan (p.470) quotes Ibn Al-Jawzi for another benefit of the existence of the abrogation of recitation, which is that it personifies the obedience of the Ummah in following the teachings of Allah, even without absolute certainty, and this is similar to how Ibrahim (alaihi alsalam) accepted that he had to kill his son, even though it was just a dream as certain as he would have been if he received such an order through an angel. This type of acceptance of the rulings of Allah (i.e. via abrogation verses, and Ibrahim’s acceptance of his dream) demonstrates a high level of faith and deserves a higher reward. This is why some teachings were revealed as Qur’an while others came in the form of Sunnah, Allah wishes to test this nation through the Sunnah and see how they deal with its texts, how they study it, preserve it and deal with the differences of opinions among themselves in an Islamic manner. You can read more and the examples given here: http://twelvershia.net/2015/11/25/defense-sunni-view-quran/ Please note again, this belief of the ahlu sunnah is far from what the scholars of shi’ah believe, I had already posted a link for your perusal. Again your arguments and debates must stem from genuine facts, and supported by scholarly opinions, if you think just that stoning the adulterer is barbaric, hence your argument, then we may also look at cutting of the hands for a thief, and even whipping a fornicator 100 lashes can also be viewed as barbaric, not to mention the continuous pressure from some quarters to abolish death sentence. The last paragraph of the above post is very instructive. The Question to ask yourself are: Are the narrations on rajm authentic according to Islamic scholars?! If yes, why do you reject them?! If no, then who weakened them, and on what basis were the reasons for the weakness of the narrations?! |
Re: Agege For Show. Innaa Lillaahi Wa Innaa Ilayhi Rooji'oon by AlBaqir(m): 5:34pm On Aug 08, 2016 |
Newnas: ...and Allah bears witness that the hypocrites are surely liars. {Sura al-Munafiq:1} Newnas: Ma sha Allah! Let me quickly give you the detail of one of these many rawafid narrator that sahih Bukhari relied so much upon: Abd al-Razzaq al-San’ani (Died 211 AH) • Sahih Bukhari [kitab al-’iman] • Sahih Muslim [kitab al-’iman] • Sahih al-Tirmidhi [kitab al-taharah] • Sunan Nasa’i [kitab al-taharah] • Sunan Abi Dawud [kitab altaharah] • Sunan Ibn Majah [kitab al-muqaddamah fi al-’iman] * "Ibn ‘Adi said: They (i.e. scholars) did not see any problem in his hadith except that they attributed Shi’ism to him…He was a man of honor … he narrated traditions in praise of the Household of the Prophet (Ahl al-Bayt) and disparaging others… Mukhlid al-Shu’ayri said: I was with ‘Abd al-Razzaq when someone mentioned Mu’awiyah. ‘Abd al-Razzaq said: ‘Do not pollute our assembly by mentioning the descendant of Abu Sufyan!’." Source: [Al-Mizzi, Tahdhib alKamal, under “‘Abd al-Razzaq al-San’ani”] * "Ibn ‘Adi narrated (a hadith) from ‘Abd al-Razzaq…, “If you see Mu’awiyah on my pulpit then kill him!”. Source: [Al-Dhahabi, Mizan al-’I’tidal, under “‘Abd al-Razzaq al-San’ani”] So, those staunch Rawafid who used to abuse and curse kuffar like Mu'awiyah, Yazid, Marwan ibn Hakam et al are knowledgeable and are truthful when it comes to relating ahadith pertaining to...what exactly? But their ahadith on the superiority and leadership of the Ahl al-Bayt are not considered to be "knowledge-based and truthfulness"?! No wonder the supposed author of Sahih Bukhari deliberately edited hadith Thaqalain from Quran wa itrah Ahl al-bayt to Quran (only). Indeed your aimma of ahadith are just and not partisan@underline. Newnas: Ma sha Allah! So, all these Sahabah al-ikram were wrong and are people of "Bid'ah" for given preference to Imam Ali over the first Caliph Abubakar: Imam Ibn 'Abd al-Barr (d. 463H) writes: “Salman, Abu Dharr, al-Miqdad, Khabab, Jabir (b. Abdullah al-Ansari), Abu Sa'id al-Khudri and Zayd b. Arqam narrated that 'Ali b. Abi Talib, may Allah be pleased with him, was the first to accept Islam, AND THEY CONSIDERED HIM THE MOST SUPERIOR (AMONG THE SAHABAH)" Source: {al-Isti‟ab fi Ma‟rifat al-Ashab (Beirut: Dar al-Jil; 1st edition, 1412H), vol. 3, p. 1090, #1855} In fact, a Sahabi by the name, Abu al-Tufayl ['Amir b. Wathilah b. 'Abd Allah b. Amr al-Laythi al-Kanani al-Hijazi] is described by al-Hafiz Ibn Hajar al-Asqalani and Imam Ibn 'Abd al-Barr thus: “Abu Umar said: He accepted the Merit of Abu Bakr and 'Umar BUT HE CONSIDERED 'ALI TO BE THE MOST SUPERIOR” Source: {al-Isabah fi Tamyiz al-Sahabah (Beirut: Dar al-Kutub al-„Illmiyyah, 1st edition, 1415H), vol. 7, p.193, #10166 Newnas: Daleel? Èrí? Evidence? Prove your claim with authentic athar if you are indeed student of knowledge. Indeed you are nothing but a liar as Quran describe people like you, the Munafiqun. Newnas: Are these your cult new released propagandas against Shi'a, Mr Liar? Newnas: Where has Albaqir made such statement "any"? Why are not going to curse those whom Allah and His Prophet cursed? Quran cursed the Munafiqun from among the Sahabah and promised them Jahanam. There are authentic records in your books that Nabi salallahu alayhi wa ahli cursed Hakam who was regarded as a Sahabi (according to your creed), and his offspring. There is authentic record in your books that Imam Ali prayed for Allah's punishment upon Mu'awiyah and his followers. The list is endless. So why wont I cursed those accursed innovators and kuffar? # What a true Shia don't engage in is cursing Abubakar, Umar, Uthman, Aisha et al despite their innovations which they confessed, and documented in your authentic books. 1 Like |
Re: Agege For Show. Innaa Lillaahi Wa Innaa Ilayhi Rooji'oon by AlBaqir(m): 5:55pm On Aug 08, 2016 |
sino: What destroyed your shallow and usual copy-paste is the very ayat Sherif you quote. Its a straight forward ayah with no hanky panky esp the underlined phrase. Where are authentic evidences linking the Prophet that support the views of your scholars on abrogation? # The case here is about ayat rajm which can never and will never be found in the holy Quran. According to the ayat Sherif you quoted, which ayah was revealed to replace it? You must give an authentic narration to support it please. # Apart from the fact that you can never provide a single narration to the Prophet that support the theories of your scholars, give us another "another erased recitation ayah but intact ruling" in the "Quran"?! Only the second Caliph Umar ibn al-Khattab talked about Ayat Rajm (and probably Umm al-mu'mininah Aisha who claimed the verses had been eaten by a goat during the burial of the Nabi) out of 114,000 Sahabah of which less than 20% were recorded in the books of your ahadith. And the second Caliph clearly stated that the ayah exist in the Quran at least up till his time. Yet you want to shamelessly cover that under the carpet and push the silly argument of tahrif to the Shia despite given you tens of evidences to prove multitude of tahrif ahadith in your books. You've never disappointed me a day. 1 Like |
Re: Agege For Show. Innaa Lillaahi Wa Innaa Ilayhi Rooji'oon by Empiree: 6:30pm On Aug 08, 2016 |
Will be back here In sha Allah @sino. I'm very uncomfortable using my mobile. The whole arguments of yours devoid of simple "Qola Allah Qola Rosullu" The ONLY weight you have is you bombarded me with 'ijma' of SCHOLARS which is understandable. As for your last paragraph, please desist from that bcus I'm not shy from implementation of hudud of Rab. I think you are being emotional by saying that. I don't want emotions involved. @albaqir, thanks for your brief contributions. However, I think you should stand on neutral ground rather than your common tune "your scholar". Remember you used to believe in hadd of Rajm until I brought your attention to it last year?. So please try to sound neutral so that sino doesn't feel he's dealing with sectarian arguments. Thanks 1 Like |
Re: Agege For Show. Innaa Lillaahi Wa Innaa Ilayhi Rooji'oon by AlBaqir(m): 7:01pm On Aug 08, 2016 |
^ Here are very interesting ahadith in sahih Bukhari pertaining to Rajam: Narrated Ash-Shu`bi: from `Ali when the latter stoned a lady to death on a Friday. `Ali said, "I have stoned her according to the tradition of Allah's Messenger (s)." Reference : Sahih al-Bukhari 6812 In-book reference : Book 86, Hadith 42 USC-MSA web (English) reference : Vol. 8, Book 82, Hadith 803 Narrated Ash Shaibani: I asked `Abdullah bin Abi `Aufa, 'Did Allah's Messenger (s) carry out the Rajam penalty ( i.e., stoning to death)?' He said, "Yes." I said, "Before the revelation of Surat-an-Nur or after it?" He replied, "I don't Know." Reference : Sahih al-Bukhari 6813 In-book reference : Book 86, Hadith 43 USC-MSA web (English) reference : Vol. 8, Book 82, Hadith 804 http://sunnah.com/bukhari/86 # In the first hadith attributed to Imam Ali ibn Abi Talib alayhi Salam, he never ever attributed the punishment to "a verse or abrogated in recitation but intact ruling of the Quran", rather he maintained it to be among the tradition of the Prophet salallahu alayhi wa ahli. And there is no doubt Ali ibn Abi Talib was the best judge of this Ummah after Nabi. He was the best in the knowledge of the Quran (and Sunnah). # In the second hadith, Ash-Shaybani was Abu Amr Ash-Shaybani. He was a Tabi'in and he met Abdullah ibn Umar, a nasibi Sahabi. You can see his conversation with a co-Tabi'in. There was nothing like "ayat rajm being abrogated, or in recitation but ruling intact" in their thought. What authority did the so-called far later generations of scholars have over these two salafs of their with their bogus theory of naskh wa mansukh? |
Re: Agege For Show. Innaa Lillaahi Wa Innaa Ilayhi Rooji'oon by AlBaqir(m): 7:22pm On Aug 08, 2016 |
Empiree: I don't get it @underline. # That Prophet stoned or existence of ayat rajm? # Again there are too numerous ahadith about stoning for adultery but not that ayat rajm existed. The later (ayat rajm) is found in both Sunni and Shia ahadith but I simply don't believe them. I believe its part of traditions of the Prophet (due to numerous ahadith). # I believe so much in Allah's mercy for sinners. Death punishment is however for the unrepentant sinners who defiantly continue to cause mischief on the land. Interestingly, my favourite Sahabi reported this hadith (thank Allah the hadith is par with the Quran): Narrated Abu Huraira: The Prophet (ﷺ) said, "The one who commits an illegal sexual intercourse is not a believer at the time of committing illegal sexual intercourse and a thief is not a believer at the time of committing theft and a drinker of alcoholic drink is not a believer at the time of drinking. Yet, (the gate of) repentance is open thereafter." Reference : Sahih al-Bukhari 6810 In-book reference : Book 86, Hadith 40 USC-MSA web (English) reference : Vol. 8, Book 82, Hadith 801 (deprecated numbering scheme) |
Re: Agege For Show. Innaa Lillaahi Wa Innaa Ilayhi Rooji'oon by Empiree: 7:46pm On Aug 08, 2016 |
AlBaqir:Brother, leave oshogbo weed at home . Don't take it to work with you . Why do you misunderstood me today? . I never agreed @underlined. # Again there are too numerous ahadith about stoning for adultery but not that ayat rajm existed. The later (ayat rajm) is found in both Sunni and Shia ahadith but I simply don't believe them. I believe its part of traditions of the Prophet (due to numerous ahadith).this should be directed at sino |
Re: Agege For Show. Innaa Lillaahi Wa Innaa Ilayhi Rooji'oon by sino(m): 9:01pm On Aug 08, 2016 |
Empiree: I do not know what gave you the impression that I was emotional with my last post, anyway, I await your full response. Note I am not debating with you, I only posted a brief introduction on the concept of abrogation in the Qur'an as opposed to the believe by the shi'ah that the Qur'an is incomplete. I am not interested in convincing you, I post facts, do you have facts?! are your views backed by renown scholarly views?! These are what I am interested in, you may not have problems with the hudud in the Qur'an, but you are having doubts with an authentic hadith containing hadd, doubts starts small and then spread, it is just a matter of time (well that is if you allow it grow)...I hope you have not forgotten the Qur'an were Allah (SWT) states the Prophet (SAW) does not speak of his own desire?! |
Re: Agege For Show. Innaa Lillaahi Wa Innaa Ilayhi Rooji'oon by sino(m): 9:12pm On Aug 08, 2016 |
AlBaqir:Na wa o, you that cannot prove Imamah from the Qur'an, you cannot defend your books filled with fabrications, you can't even post any authentic narration from there that supports your view, you do not follow your scholars or even agree with them, you do not base your opinion on any known tafsir be it sunni or shi'ah, you would just come start claiming A Y and Z. Do you think you should be taken seriously?! By the way, this is from one of your scholars, oya deny it as usual: 4- Also, refer to our article on the verse about suckling and its abrogation: Response to: Challenge to the Sons of Aisha. It is also important to add that abrogations are not exclusive to Ahl Al-Sunnah. [b]By returning to Al-Idda and we have found a clear statement from Al-Tusi regarding the permissibility of this form of abrogation. In Chapter 7, he calls Section 4: [/b]في ذكر جواز نسخ الحكم دون التّلاوة ، ونسخ التّلاوة دون الحكم [b]“The permissibility of the abrogation of laws without recitation and the abrogation of recitations without laws.” [/b]We suggest that readers read the full chapter in order to see Al-Tusi’s reasons for accepting these forms of abrogation. Source: The same as previous |
Re: Agege For Show. Innaa Lillaahi Wa Innaa Ilayhi Rooji'oon by Nobody: 5:13am On Aug 09, 2016 |
^^ believe me he will find something to say, shaytan will give him wahy. 2 Likes |
Re: Agege For Show. Innaa Lillaahi Wa Innaa Ilayhi Rooji'oon by Rafidi: 3:06pm On Aug 09, 2016 |
Rafidi: |
Re: Agege For Show. Innaa Lillaahi Wa Innaa Ilayhi Rooji'oon by Empiree: 4:09pm On Aug 09, 2016 |
^^^^ I think i have explained myself [above] what i meant |
Re: Agege For Show. Innaa Lillaahi Wa Innaa Ilayhi Rooji'oon by Rafidi: 4:54pm On Aug 09, 2016 |
Empiree: please do not expect i would have to read all your many posts to find a reply to my post. are you a celebrity? i quoted your post and gave a reply. i expect nothing less of that courtesy. otherwise, it means you have no answer or you are simply not interested. either ways, thanks. |
Re: Agege For Show. Innaa Lillaahi Wa Innaa Ilayhi Rooji'oon by MrOlai: 5:29pm On Aug 09, 2016 |
AlBaqir: Liar! Shia rain curses on Abubakr, Umar and Uthman(R. A. Ajmain) during their ziyaratul ashura. Shia rain curses on them hundreds of times on that single day not to talk of other curses they rain on those noble Companions of the Prophet(SAW) on other days and in their individual curses! This is a response from your brother on the curses you rain on those Companions(R.A): TheLight001:. LagosShia: Shia and deceptions! 3 Likes 1 Share |
Re: Agege For Show. Innaa Lillaahi Wa Innaa Ilayhi Rooji'oon by sino(m): 6:58pm On Aug 09, 2016 |
lexiconkabir: I know he would, but I think it is the Imam in occulation that gives him wahy, I find it quite interesting how these people disbelieve in what their earlier scholars had upheld as being true and authentic, one wonders, were the Imams during those period off duty? And what is even the function of the Imams when they couldn't help them, the earlier generations get their acts right...And the one said to be in hiding?! How does he guide the shi'a from his hiding place? Allahu must'an 2 Likes 1 Share |
Re: Agege For Show. Innaa Lillaahi Wa Innaa Ilayhi Rooji'oon by Demmzy15(m): 6:33am On Aug 10, 2016 |
MrOlai:Busted!!!!! 2 Likes |
Re: Agege For Show. Innaa Lillaahi Wa Innaa Ilayhi Rooji'oon by Empiree: 1:57pm On Aug 11, 2016 |
Bismillahi Rah'man Ra'him sino:This whole thing about abrogation sounds like robbery. How could a verse be abrogated and the ruling exist?. Qur'an says it was revealed in a preserved tablet. Didnt Allah knows ahead what the future holds?. The Quran is preserved in the ‘lawh al-mahfooz’ (preserved tablet) with God (85:21-22) and not in the paper copy printed by humans. The vast majority of the scholars are of the opinion that Sunnah does not abrogate the Quran. They say that there is no example of such abrogation and that the examples given by the other side are not correct. Imams Shafi’i, Ahmad b. Hanbal, ibn Taymiyyah (rah) & others were of this group of scholars. On the other hand, there are few scholars who believe that the Sunnah abrogated the Quran. Muhammad bin Nasr al-Marwazi is one of them. They use the following two examples which was rejected by vast scholars: 1- Surat al-Baqarah 180: It is prescribed, when death approaches any of you, if he leave any goods, that he make a will to parents and next of kin. But the Prophet ASWS said: No entitled heir is to be included in the will. Response: This verse was already abrogated by the verses of inheritance in Surat al-Nisaa. So this is not a good example of Sunnah solely abrogating the Quran. This is just a tip. It shows that if a verse was ever abrogated, both would still exist in the kitab. There was NEVER a verse of Qur'an that USED to be there. That's fabrication! And I was talking about shi’ah and believe of their scholars that the Qur’an is incomplete is quite different from the understanding of abrogated verses.I have always have problems with Alhu Sunnah anytime they accused Shi'a of this while they appear to be guilty of the same. I do not believe that Shi'a believe Qur'an is incomplete. It is simply a wide misconception. If such a thing was/is written in their literature, it is only to be understood as a mistake or corruption in their literature just like some corrupted texts in the Sunni literature. A Sunni Sheikh went to Iran for religious dialogue in 2012. During their discussion, he asked them if they believe Quran is incomplete?. He said they were not supersized he asked because it is a misconception being transported around. So they denied the allegation. Here is a brief explanation on abrogation of verses in the Qur’an: Abrogation and it rulings are in conflict with Qur'an. It creates confusion and distortion. The abrogation of Quranic verses, arguably the greatest lie against the Quran, was originally invented during the fourth century A.H. (late 10th century A.D.) by some Muslim scholars notably Ahmed Bin Ishaq Al-Dinary (died 318 A.H.), Mohamad Bin Bahr Al-Asbahany (died 322 A.H.), Hebat Allah Bin Salamah (died 410 A.H.) and Mohamad Bin Mousa Al-Hazmy (died 548 A.H.), whose book about Al-Nasekh and Al-Mansoukh is regarded as one of the leading references in the subject. According to this concept, it is claimed that some verses in the Quran are abrogated and invalidated by other verses! The verse that is the abrogator they call (Al-Nasekh) while the abrogated verse they call (Al-Mansoukh). These scholars have come up with hundreds of cases of abrogated verses to the extent that they have formulated a whole science of the subject filling lengthy books and references. These scholars came up with different numbers of abrogated verses. Alama Dr. Muhammad Iqbal, Dr. Ishra Ahmed, Sheik Daud Alfa Nla and a host of scholars came up with bunch of numbers, which means the issue of abrogation is base on opinion. There is no redundant verse in the Quran. It is all VALID till the Day Of Judgement. The scholars have observed three kinds of abrogation. The first is the abrogation of the ruling alone. The second is the abrogation of the ruling and the recitation. The third is the abrogation of recitation alone.Again, it is all theory base on their understandings. See the highlighted part really problematic and contravene Dawah effort. Not only that, it is in conflict with PRESERVED TABLET. "But this is an honored Qur'an. [Inscribed] in a Preserved Slate." (85:21-22) Here is a short story by a Sheikh and his teacher(senior teacher) in 1960s. After tedious and exhausted lecture for the day, the student in question was tired and faced down on his desk while his teacher was in recess in his office. Of-course other students were present in the class. Sometime later, one of the teachers came in and was having disccsuin with a student. The Sheik said he heard their discussion when the teacher said "their used to be a verse of rajm in the Qur'an." This Sheikh said he quickly got up and went to his teacher in his office and relayed what he heard from other teacher. His teacher, Dr Maulana Fazlur Rahman Ansari (1914-1974), the author of the book ‘The Qur’anic Foundations and Structure of Muslim Society’. He said 'there is no abrogate verse(s) in the Qur'an. That the abrogation is referring to previous revealed Holy Books, like Tawrah, Injil etc. He said the scholar used the wrong methodology was the reason they came to the conclusion.' That's why you see schlars came up with different numbers of abrogation. Muhammad Iqbal came up with some seventeen (17) i think. Dr. Ishra Ahmad came up with five(5). Some came up with pretty much more. Even though the abrogation of recitation has been something that has always been accepted by Muslim scholars, we do find that there are some that have doubted the existence of it. Their main argument is that they do not see the wisdom of such a thing and that abrogation of recitation creates nothing but confusion.That's just the truth. Forget about what scholars said. What about you, dont you see confusion and misconception?. Let me give you another example, “Verily, those who believe and those who are Jews and Christians, and Sabians, whoever believes in Allah and the Last Day and do righteous good deeds shall have their reward with their Lord, on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve.” [al-Baqarah 2:62] In the 'tafsir' given by the kingdom of Saudi where the Qur'an was printed, says in the footnote that the verse ^ was abrogated by Sura 3:85 "And whoever desires other than Islam as religion - never will it be accepted from him, and he, in the Hereafter, will be among the losers." Does that mean Sura 2:62 is redundant?. At least this is fair because both (Al-Nasekh) and (Al-Mansoukh) are present and valid. It only depends how how to explain the former if the later abrogates it. However, such an argument holds no weight, since it is not required for the creation to understand the wisdom of the actions of Allah as a requirement to accepting those actions.This is solely opinion of this scholar and he is beng emotional by citing that we may not know the 'wisdom' for the abrogation. The only time we dont know WISDOM behind something is such thing had to come from the lips of the prophet(p). Also, wisdom is, when Allah commanded Nabi Ibrahim(as) to slaughter his son(as), he(as) had faith in Allah and did not question WHY. But the 'wisdom' cited by Sulaiman Al-Lahim is in direct conflict with Quran. Allah is not author of confusion because he said in His Glorious Book An-Nisa Verse No:82 "Do they not then consider the Qur'an carefully? Had it been from other than Allah, they would surely have found therein much contradictions." Interesting, this was also discussed before, https://www.nairaland.com/638130/abrogation-quranic-verses-greatest-lie https://www.nairaland.com/348098/abrogation-quran Please note again, this belief of the ahlu sunnah is far from what the scholars of shi’ah believe, I had already posted a link for your perusal.Interestingly, Shi'a belief in rajm. Only recently Albaqir rejected the idea. Again your arguments and debates must stem from genuine facts, and supported by scholarly opinions, if you think just that stoning the adulterer is barbaric, hence your argument, then we may also look at cutting of the hands for a thief, and even whipping a fornicator 100 lashes can also be viewed as barbaric, not to mention the continuous pressure from some quarters to abolish death sentence. The last paragraph of the above post is very instructive. The Question to ask yourself are: Are the narrations on rajm authentic according to Islamic scholars?! If yes, why do you reject them?! If no, then who weakened them, and on what basis were the reasons for the weakness of the narrations?!Underlined, you have pretty much derailed. That's not the point at all. Point here is establishing hudud properly not rejecting them. I insist that "stoning" is not our (Islam) rule for punishing adulterers and fornicators. I strongly believe it is for the People Of The Book and still exist in their Book. It is not seeing it as barbaric. If it is in Qur'an like lashing, bismillah. "The scholars are the inheritors of the Prophets. The people of spiritual wisdom (hukama’) are the inheritors of the Prophets." ~~ Sacred Tradition “As matters stand in the Muslim world today, it is the decline of religious leadership from the Islamic standard in a serious measure that constitutes a major cause of its inability with regard to its emergence from the abyss into which it has been descending since some time. The remedy for the situation is obvious.” - Fazlur Rahman Ansari, ‘The Qur’anic Foundations and Structure of Muslim Society’. NEXT: Rajm (Stay Tuned) |
Islamic Ruling On Referring To ALLAH By Other Names / Adkhaar / Ten Promised Paradise-bound Companions
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