dalaman:


More emotional outburst over nothing . The stories of Jesus discipline being killed for their beliefs came much later but the founding fathers in order to strengthen the faith of the believers. Even at that many people still kill themselves and get themselves killed over lies and fiction. All these ISIS militants and muslim terrorist that kill themselves or get themselves killed and martyred are doing over what? Are they doing over the truth?

isis and boko haram are jihadist, they are carrying weapon. But the disciples are preaching the word, "faith comes by hearing".

AbuMikey:
Abeg, theres no Tangible evidence.

The Bible sometimes is just like My Secondary school Physics textbook, so incoherent and most of times out of Place.



I need other evidence aside the bible and What Dr. Luke and Barrister Paul and Mark told us.

Then maybe u shld read the simplified version of the Quran. Christ was being mentioned in virtually all the pages. I'm not a deep Christian, but I took time time to see certain texts of the Quran and I tell u it is worthy to accept Christ, he is the only true being. Except if u say the Quran lied too?

Don't be deceived by the write-up of people like seun, these are bound to open, the bible supports this. On the day of judgement, everyone will answer to the works of his own hands.

Remember when Jesus was crucified, one of the dudes that were crucified with him wasn't SAVED yet the sins of those that nailed him were not held against them.

Think about it. OP might be redeemed tomorrow and be saved, but u might not have d opportunity to redeem urself before u die.

Don't let it be too late before u do.
Dont

ikombe:
I love this points uncle seun. Very strong indeed.



As for dose things up dere who thinks its only islam(even tho am from neither religion ) that has to be criticised and christianity is the only true religion . Have you asked ur self how you came to know about the word christianity . Most of you are just following ur parents whose parents parents are christians . The religion called christianity was brought to africa by the white people who told us that our own religions where false and we accepted it like dat. Now sumone will pick up a bible written by anoda person and start telling me nonesense. My thoughts tho....

Read d Quran, ur opinion will change. Or Christians wrote the Quran too?

And this goes to seun, please live ur own life, stop helping or trying to teach others to live theirs.

Give me reasons why I shld follow ur belief, I don't need reasons why I shld renounce mine.

And why do u constantly preach against the bible and the religion as a whole? Is this what ur belief is all about? Is this what all atheists do?

There are ways to gather up followers other than dissing someone else's religion.

No offense, just take this as a feedback.

malvisguy212:
isis and boko haram are jihadist, they are carrying weapon. But the disciples are preaching the word, "faith comes by hearing".

Read the hadith and see the number of the companions of Mohammed that lost their lives in various battles when they were with him. Did you think they gave their lives up over a lie?

dalaman:


Read the hadith and see the number of the companions of Mohammed that lost their lives in various battles when they were with him. Did you think they gave their lives up over a lie?

That was one man making a claim and many believing him.

This is people stating a fact, with many witnesses and prior prophecies and ongoing promises to back up; even the enemies making and still making frantic efforts to cover it up!

There is a difference.

Scholar8200:
That was one man making a claim and many believing him.

This is people stating a fact, with many witnesses and prior prophecies and ongoing promises to back up; even the enemies making and still making frantic efforts to cover it up!

There is a difference.

Which one man? Mohammed was an illiterate. His companions wrote down the hadith based on what they witnessed. Same claims muslims also make about enemies trying to cover up things. They call the compilation of the hadith a scientific process.

The so called prohecies about Jesus have been disputed and debunked by Jews. Go and ask any rabbi and see them debunk it. There are many of such debates on youtube. I know you won't agree to it but it's something under serious dispute and debate. It's not a fact. The gospels were written way to long after the so called events by unknown authors to have any historical importance in my opinion.

dalaman:


Which one man? Mohammed was an illiterate. His companions wrote down the hadith based on what they witnessed. Same claims muslims also make about enemies trying to cover up things. They call the compilation of the hadith a scientific process.

but none of the hadith writers witnessed the giving of the Quran to Muhammed? only him saw the angel!

The so called prohecies about Jesus have been disputed and debunked by Jews. Go and ask any rabbi and see them debunk it. There are many of such debates on youtube.

Of the jews, Isaiah prophesied it, Paul affirmed it and Stephen confirmed it, (these men were Israelites) that they were stiff-necked and blinded. What do you expect then of the so-called rabbis? Even Jesus denounced their kind-the pharisees- severely!

Isaiah 53:1
Who hath believed our report?
and to whom is the arm of the Lord revealed?

I know you won't agree to it but it's something under serious dispute and debate. It's not a fact. The gospels were written way to long after the so called events by unknown authors to have any historical importance in my opinion.

Not when John the beloved lived long enough and we have early church fathers (verifiable from history) that were direct proteges of these disciples.

Scholar8200:
but none of the hadith writers witnessed the giving of the Quran to Muhammed? only him saw the angel![

How many of the writers of the bible witnessed any of the things they wrote about. The bible gospels were not written by eye witness but by people who lived much later. Who never meet Jesus but write based on hear say. Mark was written 40 years after Jesus died not by any of his disciples but by Christians of the first generation.

Of the jews, Isaiah prophesied it, Paul affirmed it and Stephen confirmed it, (these men were Israelites) that they were stiff-necked and blinded. What do you expect then of the so-called rabbis? Even Jesus denounced their kind-the pharisees- severely!

Paul was trying to sell a new religion. Isiah prophecy has been disputed by.many rabid.

Isaiah 53:1
Who hath believed our report?
and to whom is the arm of the Lord revealed?

Not when John the beloved lived long enough and we have early church fathers (verifiable from history) that were direct proteges of these disciples.

John the beloved lived till when?

arcbay:

Then maybe u shld read the simplified version of the Quran. Christ was being mentioned in virtually all the pages. I'm not a deep Christian, but I took time time to see certain texts of the Quran and I tell u it is worthy to accept Christ, he is the only true being. Except if u say the Quran lied too?

Some Prophets and the number of times they were mentioned in the
Quran


Moses - - -136
Abraham --- 69
Jesus - -----25
Joseph ------27


Mentioned in virtually every page indeed.

@ Seun

It's not sufficient to convince an objective modern person that a 3 day old corpse whose brain and heart would have decayed considerably actually came back to life, held meetings in person with various people, and then ascended into outer space.

Lazarus was dead for 4 days before he became back to life (John 11)

Dried bones of people who had died for only-God - knows years came back to life(Ezekiel 37)

dalaman:


The problem is that you guys ASSUME that the stories were written by an eye witness. Remember these stories were written at least 40 -70 years after the alleged event by christians who were telling stories about Jesus to promote the newly founded religion. These guys were just writing fiction that is why the gospel account concerning the resurrection kept changing and being embellished. The first gospel said the women saw man, the next gospel written 10 years after the second one said they saw two men buy the time you get to the last gospel written like 30 years after the first they ladies saw two angels. The writers of the gospel were us writing their stories for people to believe and follow their new religion. They weren't writing down actually historical events. The gospels were written way to long after the supposed event happened to carry any true meaning.

This is damn too profound.

Rilwon:


This is damn too profound.

If you had meant damn too stupid I would have agreed with you . Angels can take take different forms . It's only by their purpose you can tell if they are mere men or mystic beings . I won't be wrong to address an angel as a man if he comes to me as one or as a girl , woman , anyone .

truthman2012:
@ Seun



Lazarus was dead for 4 days before he became back to life (John 11)

Dried bones of people who had died for only-God - knows years came back to life(Ezekiel 37)

Biology and making logical conclusions aren't obviously his fortes

KingEbukaNaija:


If you had meant damn too stupid I would have agreed with you . Angels can take take different forms . It's only by their purpose you can tell if they are mere men or mystic beings . I won't be wrong to address an angel as a man if he comes to me as one or as a girl , woman , anyone .

I don't get you here, are you saying angels appeared to those who wrote the resurrection account 40/50 years after the alleged incidents?

How would you know an angel that comes in human form btw?

Rilwon:


I don't get you here, are you saying angels appeared to those who wrote the resurrection account 40/50 years after the alleged incidents?

How would you know an angel that comes in human form btw?

I am saying that since obviously the Angels appeared as men I see nothing wrong to address them as men . Angels do take different forms , they have the power to do so .

I've listened to testimonies were angels took human forms to rescue people in trouble . Before the rescuing or help the were thought to be humans then after their mysterious disappearance it's logical to conclude they are angels .

Before you contravene my story , there are lots of things you believe which you have not witnessed like kidnapping , murder , rape but you believe these things happen and it would be very wrong to dispute the veracity of these stories simply because they have not been witnessed first hand .

Una still dey this issue? It's leading nowhere....

KingEbukaNaija:


I am saying that since obviously the Angels appeared as men I see nothing wrong to address them as men . Angels do take different forms , they have the power to do so.

Maybe this reply of yours wasn't meant for me. Or that it is meant for my reply to malvisguy212, is it? But definitely not for dalaman's profound input.

I've listened to testimonies were angels took human forms to rescue people in trouble.
Before the rescuing or help the were thought to be humans then after their mysterious disappearance it's logical to conclude they are angels .

You've never seen an angel, but then you believe an eye witness account?
Good, why do you then find it hard to believe Prophet Muhammad (saw) who claimed to also saw an angel that dictates the Quran to him?

Before you contravene my story , there are lots of things you believe which you have not witnessed like kidnapping , murder , rape but you believe these things happen and it would be very wrong to dispute the veracity of these stories simply because they have not been witnessed first hand .

Again this has nothing to do with dalaman's input. And then, are you really comparing incidents of kidnapping, murder and rape to angels allegedly appearing in human form? Seriously?

Rilwon:


Maybe this reply of yours wasn't meant for me. Or that it is meant for my reply to malvisguy212, is it? But definitely not for dalaman's profound input.

Well that's your opinion. I think it's stupid though .

Good, why do you then find it hard to believe Prophet Muhammad (saw) also saw an angel that dictates the Quran to him?

You do realize there are Fallen Angels - lying and deceptive spirit - too ... Right ? I don't know much about Islam though , so don't assume I don't believe muhamamed's encounter with angels simply because I'm a Christian .

Again this has nothing to do with dalaman's input. And then, are you really comparing incidents of kidnapping, murder and rape to angels allegedly appearing in human form? Seriously?

Yeah . I anticipated your response and had to circumvent with an answer . The point is that you should not be quick to invalidate the conformity to truth of a story simply because you have not witnessed it - especially one told by lots of people .

KingEbukaNaija:


Well that's your opinion. I think it's stupid though .

Lol

You do realize there are Fallen Angels - lying and deceptive spirit - too ... Right ?

Good that you believe this as well, and then what makes you think these are not the fallen angels at work here, being the fact that those accounts were written long after Jesus? Who knows maybe the fallen angels were at work to further deceive mankind.

I don't know much about Islam though , so don't assume I don't believe muhamamed's encounter with angels simply because I'm a Christian .

I will like you read about him and his encounter and tell me your views.. Please do read.

Yeah . I anticipated your response and had to circumvent with an answer . The point is that you should not be quick to invalidate the conformity to truth of a story simply because you have not witnessed it - especially one told by lots of people .

Depends.

Rilwon:


Maybe this reply of yours wasn't meant for me. Or that it is meant for my reply to malvisguy212, is it? But definitely not for dalaman's profound input.



You've never seen an angel, but then you believe an eye witness account?
Good, why do you then find it hard to believe Prophet Muhammad (saw) who claimed to also saw an angel that dictates the Quran to him?




Again this has nothing to do with dalaman's input. And then, are you really comparing incidents of kidnapping, murder and rape to angels allegedly appearing in human form? Seriously?

hey, I believe muhammed see an angel, and the quran was given to him. But to say the angel is gabriel which appear to mary, zacharia and the rest is laughable, angel gabriel don't press and torture people.

malvisguy212:
hey, I believe muhammed see an angel, and the quran was given to him. But to say the angel is gabriel which appear to mary, zacharia and the rest is laughable, angel gabriel don't press and torture people.

How did you know that angel Gabriel don't go to that extent to pass the intended message? Are you an eye witness?

And then, how many times did he press and torture people?

malvisguy212:
hey, I believe muhammed see an angel, and the quran was given to him. But to say the angel is gabriel which appear to mary, zacharia and the rest is laughable, angel gabriel don't press and torture people.

Have you ever wonder why Yahweh had to use force to compel people to worship him in the ot?

Seun:
To be honest, I'm putting my views out there because i believe they are true, and also because I want to start meeting people of like mind.

This thread is not mockery. I'm just observing that the evidence for the belief that Jesus rose from the dead seems to be very weak.

They didn't testify about the resurrection. This thread is focused on that.

Tnx, but I think most Nairaland members are smart enough to see the flaws. They may not acknowledge them, but they will see them.

Now to answer your question

Here are some 14 EVIDENCES

JESUS’ EXISTENCE. That Jesus was a historical individual is granted by virtually all historians and is supported by ancient Christian, Jewish, and pagan sources. Yet modern skeptics often feel that their best strategy for denying the evidence of his resurrection is to deny that he even existed.

JESUS’ DEATH. The most popular counter to the Resurrection in non-Christian and heretical beliefs is to deny that Jesus died on the cross (e.g., this is the position of Islam). However, historians regard the death of Jesus by crucifixion as ordered by Pontius Pilate to be as historically certain as any other fact of antiquity.

CRUCIFIED MESSIAH. Crucifixion was a horrible, shameful way to die, so much so that it would never have occurred to anyone in the first century to invent a story about a crucified man as the divine Savior and King of the world. Something extreme and dramatic must have happened to lead people to accept such an idea—something like his rising from the dead.

JOSEPH’S TOMB. All four Gospels agree that Jesus’ body had been buried in the rock tomb owned by Joseph of Arimathea, a member of the Jewish high council (the Sanhedrin). This is an unlikely Christian fiction, because Christians blamed the Sanhedrin for their role in having Jesus executed.

WOMEN WITNESSES. The four Gospels all agree that the first persons to find the tomb empty were Jewish women, including Mary Magdalene. It is very unlikely that anyone would make up such a story, since women’s testimony was devalued compared to men’s and since Mary Magdalene was known as a formerly demon-possessed woman. If the empty tomb story were fiction, one would expect that Joseph of Arimathea, already identified as the tomb’s owner and a respected male leader, would be credited with the discovery.

ANCIENT THEORIES. The earliest non-Christian explanations for the origin of the Resurrection belief (mentioned in John and Matthew) were that the body had been taken from the tomb—either moved to another burial place or stolen to fake the Resurrection. These explanations conceded three key facts: Jesus died; his body was buried in Joseph’s tomb; the tomb was later found to be empty.

TOMB WAS GUARDED. Critics routinely dismiss Matthew’s story about the guards being bribed to say that they fell asleep, giving the disciples opportunity to steal the body (Matt. 28:11-15). But Matthew would have no reason to make up the story about the guards being bribed except to counter the story of the guards saying they fell asleep (see v. 15). Either way, the guards were there: the body had been in the tomb, the tomb had been guarded, and the body was no longer there.

PAUL AND LUKE’S INDEPENDENT ACCOUNTS. Paul’s list of resurrection witnesses in 1 Corinthians 15:5-7 coincides with Luke’s account at several points, but in wording and in what is included Luke’s account is clearly independent of Paul. For example, Paul calls Peter by his Aramaic nickname “Cephas,” not Simon or Peter; he refers to “the twelve,” Luke to “the eleven”; Luke does not mention the appearances to James or the five hundred. Thus Paul and Luke give us independent accounts of the appearances they both mention.

CLOPAS AND THAT OTHER GUY. Luke gives the name of one of the two men on the road to Emmaus who saw Jesus (Clopas) but not the name of the other man. If he was making up names he would presumably have given both of the men names. The fact that he identifies only one of the two men by name is best explained if that man, Clopas, was the source of Luke’s account. In short, this fact is evidence that the account came from an eyewitness.

BROTHER JAMES. Although Luke does not mention the resurrection appearance to James (the Lord’s brother) mentioned by Paul in 1 Corinthians 6, Luke does report that James had become a leading member of the apostolic group (see especially Acts 15:13-21). Since Jesus’ brothers had rejected Jesus during his lifetime (John 7:5), Paul’s reference to Christ appearing to James is probably based on fact.

JOHN’S EYEWITNESS ACCOUNT. The author of the Gospel of John emphatically states that he was an eyewitness of the death of Jesus, of the empty tomb, and of resurrection appearances of Jesus (John 19:32-35; 20:2-9; 21:7, 20-25). Either he sincerely had these experiences or he was lying; appeals to legend or myth are out of the question here.

ANCIENT SKEPTICISM. Luke reports the skepticism of the men disciples the morning the tomb was found empty (Luke 24:22-24), and John reports Thomas’s skepticism about Jesus’ resurrection (John 20:24-26). These accounts (see also Acts 17:32; 1 Cor. 15:12) demonstrate that the perception of ancient people as gullible hayseeds who would believe any miracle story is a modern prejudicial stereotype.

PAUL’S CONVERSION. Paul was a notorious persecutor of the early Christians prior to his becoming an apostle. His explanation, that Christ appeared to him and called him to faith and the apostolic ministry, is the only plausible explanation for his 180-degree change. Moreover, Paul’s experience was entirely independent of the experience of the other apostles.

PAUL’S GENTILE MISSION. Paul’s encounter with the risen Jesus did not result merely in him accepting Jesus as the Jews’ Messiah. Instead, he saw himself, a trained and zealous Pharisee, as commissioned by Jesus to take the good news of the Messiah to uncircumcised Gentiles. The fact that Paul embraced such a calling against his former passionate beliefs and training makes any appeal to hallucination or delusion implausible.

arcbay:

Then maybe u shld read the simplified version of the Quran. Christ was being mentioned in virtually all the pages. I'm not a deep Christian, but I took time time to see certain texts of the Quran and I tell u it is worthy to accept Christ, he is the only true being. Except if u say the Quran lied too?

Don't be deceived by the write-up of people like seun, these are bound to open, the bible supports this. On the day of judgement, everyone will answer to the works of his own hands.

Remember when Jesus was crucified, one of the dudes that were crucified with him wasn't SAVED yet the sins of those that nailed him were not held against them.

Think about it. OP might be redeemed tomorrow and be saved, but u might not have d opportunity to redeem urself before u die.

Don't let it be too late before u do.
Dont

Don't Coon!

What other proof do You have to show that Jesus resurrected on the 3rd day apart from what some men that I'm not sure ever existed wrote?

Rilwon:


How did you know that angel Gabriel don't go to that extent to pass the intended message? Are you an eye witness?

And then, how many times did he press and torture people?

angel gabriel is a messenger of good news, He appear to many people and their is no mention of torture, according to the hadith, the angel press him 3 times, torture him. Well, I don't want to derail this thread, if you still insist, open a thread and mention me.

babysmart:
Honestly, anything could have happened to the body. My major issue is the Ascension. Was it only the disciples that met him at Galilee? Are there any non disciples that saw Jesus after the so called resurrection?


BTW...To those insinuating that seun has been attacking Christians alone because he's scared of muslims...He was once a Christian and not a Muslim. Obviously he knows a lot about the religion he left. He has done his own research and is clearly trying to open everyone's eyes using his forum.

If you haven't noticed Christianity has a great deal of loopholes and yet it's only Christians that you'll see evangelising up and down. It would be a lot more sensible if Christians search for evidence to back their claims rather than calling seun an antichrist. Seriously? Is that all you guys have to say?

Lastly...he was named Oluwaseun by his parents. Surely you don't expect him to change his name because he is now an atheist.



Hope I didn't derail sha. I really like what you're doing seun. It has been somewhat educating. When I tell people I'm a free thinker, they gimme this really weird look and say, 'How can a girl be a free thinker? '

Maybe I'll graduate to atheist level very soon.
I would really like to read your materials. Could you help with some sites or something?

You're smart. +1000
If you can, please find and read this amazing book: Sapiens: A Brief History of Humankind by Yuval Noah Harari. You'd learn a lot about humans and how we believe the things we do.

KingEbukaNaija:


The incessant blatant show of ignorance by the atheists is indeed ineffable . Can you give me any reason why atheism is a better choice seeing that atheists are immoral , debauchees , have the disposition to show bigotry and are malevolent towards the religious ?

Atheist are NOT immoral! Wtf!

You don't need religion to know not to steal, bribe, kill etc. It's simple common sense.

This is what too much of movies can cause... I understand seun perfectly . .. I recommend you go 5 days hunger strike.. your brain go do hard reset. Too much of everything turns people to something else. If you want to discover your true self, just leave your comfort zone . Go to where nobody knows you and live there for just 2 month like a poor nigeria .. you will regain your sense .... yoruba bo, won ni omode yo tan ,o n wa bekunbekun kiri .

spacyzuma:


You're smart. +1000
If you can, please find and read this amazing book: Sapiens: A Brief History of Humankind by Yuval Noah Harari. You'd learn a lot about humans and how we believe the things we do.

Hello, do you have the pdf file for this book? I'm interested in reading this. Do share please.

HomoSapiien:


Hello, do you have the pdf file for this book? I'm interested in reading this. Do share please.

No, I don't. I bought the paper copy.

This is a thread that shows the brotherhood of atheists, muslims and pagans because they are under the same Master.