KunleOshob:

@Brotherly
But Jesus christ never stayed away from alcohol, are you suggesting we should be holier than him?

I am sure you agree that he did not indulge in alcohol either

Guy, I think my explanation is clear, the concluding verses fom romans 14 as stated by Paul after the death of christ is straight forward.

I have never been part of those who explain away the water to wine miracle as non alcoholic , however we do not have a right to add what is not expressly stated in the bible. Aside the passover , there is scarcely any reference that says he took wine.

Yes he said " the son of man came eating and drinking and you say behold a glutton and a winebiber" but from the bible we have very scant reference to when he even ate so the glutton talk was way off, hence we can even infer same in the case of wine.

I will however like to know what your advice to christians is, especially in times like this when keeping faith is a struggle in the face of the deluge of temptations .

@Brotherly
What is clear to me from scriptures is that alcohol should be taken in moderation, thereis no point in trying to be more catholic than the pope. Neither Jesus nor the aposltes ever instructed complete abstainance from alcohol. Concerning apostle paul, i also read somewhere in one of his letters that we shouldn't allow anybody to dictate to us what we canot eat or drink. I would confirm the passage and post it here later.

Colossians 2:16-23:

   16 So don’t let anyone condemn you for what you eat or drink, or for not celebrating certain holy days or new moon ceremonies or Sabbaths. 17 For these rules are only shadows of the reality yet to come. And Christ himself is that reality. 18 Don’t let anyone condemn you by insisting on pious self-denial or the worship of angels,[a] saying they have had visions about these things. Their sinful minds have made them proud, 19 and they are not connected to Christ, the head of the body. For he holds the whole body together with its joints and ligaments, and it grows as God nourishes it.

   20 You have died with Christ, and he has set you free from the spiritual powers of this world. So why do you keep on following the rules of the world, such as, 21 “Don’t handle! Don’t taste! Don’t touch!”? 22 Such rules are mere human teachings about things that deteriorate as we use them. 23 These rules may seem wise because they require strong devotion, pious self-denial, and severe bodily discipline. But they provide no help in conquering a person’s evil desires.

KunleOshob:

Colossians 2:16-23:

   16 So don’t let anyone condemn you for what you eat or drink, or for not celebrating certain holy days or new moon ceremonies or Sabbaths. 17 For these rules are only shadows of the reality yet to come. And Christ himself is that reality. 18 Don’t let anyone condemn you by insisting on pious self-denial or the worship of angels,[a] saying they have had visions about these things. Their sinful minds have made them proud, 19 and they are not connected to Christ, the head of the body. For he holds the whole body together with its joints and ligaments, and it grows as God nourishes it.

   20 You have died with Christ, and he has set you free from the spiritual powers of this world. So why do you keep on following the rules of the world, such as, 21 “Don’t handle! Don’t taste! Don’t touch!”? 22 Such rules are mere human teachings about things that deteriorate as we use them. 23 These rules may seem wise because they require strong devotion, pious self-denial, and severe bodily discipline. But they provide no help in conquering a person’s evil desires.

Yes you are correct but we must note that we all learners in scriptural matters and must also use scripture to explain scripture. 

To corroborate your point paul even said that:

1Co 8:4  Then concerning the eating of the things sacrificed to idols, we know that an idol is nothing in the world, and that there is no other God except one.
1Co 8:5  For though there are those who are called gods, whether in Heaven or in earth (as there are many gods and many lords),
1Co 8:6  but there is to us only one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in Him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, through whom are all things, and we by Him.
1Co 8:7  But this knowledge is not in all. But some being aware of the idol eat as an idolatrous sacrifice until now, and their conscience being weak is defiled.
1Co 8:8  But food does not commend us to God. For neither if we eat are we the better, nor if we do not eat are we the worse.


but later in revelation JESUS chatised the church in Thyatira that:

Rev 2:20  But I have a few things against you because you allow that woman Jezebel to teach, she saying herself to be a prophetess, and to cause My servants to go astray, and to commit fornication, and to eat idol-sacrifices

---

.

This explains that what we eat or drink still matters , this we will understand only if we explain scripture with scritpure.

@KunleOshob

I believe we are in agreement now?

nice topic. nice read

brotherly:

Yes you are correct but we must note that we all learners in scriptural matters and must also use scripture to explain scripture. 

To corroborate your point paul even said that:

1Co 8:4  Then concerning the eating of the things sacrificed to idols, we know that an idol is nothing in the world, and that there is no other God except one.
1Co 8:5  For though there are those who are called gods, whether in Heaven or in earth (as there are many gods and many lords),
1Co 8:6  but there is to us only one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in Him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, through whom are all things, and we by Him.
1Co 8:7  But this knowledge is not in all. But some being aware of the idol eat as an idolatrous sacrifice until now, and their conscience being weak is defiled.
1Co 8:8  But food does not commend us to God. For neither if we eat are we the better, nor if we do not eat are we the worse.


but later in revelation JESUS chatised the church in Thyatira that:

Rev 2:20  But I have a few things against you because you allow that woman Jezebel to teach, she saying herself to be a prophetess, and to cause My servants to go astray, and to commit fornication, and to eat idol-sacrifices

---

.

This explains that what we eat or drink still matters , this we will understand only if we explain scripture with scritpure.

brotherly:

@KunleOshob

I believe we are in agreement now?

We are not in agreement O! the fact still remains that Jesus our ultimate example clearly used to consume alcohol on a regular basis {luke 7:33-34 makes this very clear, even if you decided to ignore the obvious} Your analogies don't hold water as their is no place in the bible which even remotely suggests christian should not consume alcohol if any thing at all it is endorsed by the actions of Jesus and the apostles. You are obviously trying to force your bias into the bible through the linking of unrelated scriptures to butress your point whilst ignoring the very obvious facts that those Christ himself and the apostles indulged in the consumption of the very alcohol you are implying christians should not drink. I am sure you are aware that it is a sin to add to or remove from th scriptures  . My position remains as far as the bible is corcernd: Moderation is key.
God bless.

I'll not enter deep into the discuss now but there's need to say that when people refer to alcohol, it includes the likes of shepe, ogogoro, schinapps, star extra lager 'the clear leader' etc. I believe it'll be at best naive to argue that Jesus will take these in the sense that it's taken if he were living with us. But I'll like to ask what it means to drink responsibly. Is it a sip, 2 bottles or 4crates? How responsible can we drink and how liberal can we be so as not be considered as conservative or legalistic? Also, is there a difference between wine and strong drink? If yes, what drinks can we put as examples? Looking forward to your response(s)

brotherly:

This is definitely a contentious topic. One has to be careful not to either misinterpret the bible or to give approval to frivolities.

There is nowhere in the bible where alcohol is expressly stated as a sin . We must however understand that the context of sin is “to him that knoweth to do good and doeth it not to him it is sin” and “all unrighteousness is sin”

For those differentiating wine from alcohol, we have to be truthful here. Wine as depicted in the Bible almost always has some form of alcohol. Noah drank wine from the proceeds of his vineyard and messed up. The cases of John the baptist , any Nazarene and the Rechabites in Jeremiah’s time all clearly depict that wine in bible times had some alcohol. It was always a case of “TAKE NEITHER WINE NOR STRONG DRINK”

However we of the new testament (especially in perilous times like ours ) need to understand the scriptures from the level of Holy spirit’s direction

“as many as are led by the spirit the same are the sons of God”

“ But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshipers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him. God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth”

The Christian race is not one easy walk, it involves godly wisdom, grace and optimum sobriety. I have sensed that while there is no outright condemnation of alcohol , I have always struggled with God’s spirit to take alcohol. Secondly I am most times at my weakest level spiritually and more prone to sin whenever I take alcohol. Hence while I can not say alcohol to me is a sin , it is however a weight that hinders
“Seeing that we are surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses let us lay aside every weight and the sin which doth easily beset us, and ………………let us run with patience the race that is set before us.”

The bible is replete with great errors that were fueled by alcohol--- Lot and his daughters, Noah, Ahab etc.

Looking at it from the angle of love in helping other peoples faith and not standing as a hinderance to peoples salvation ,there are a lot of unbelievers that will find it difficult to get saved if they find a matured Christian drinking alcohol, there are a lot of young Christians that have backslid because they heard that they are free to take alcohol without getting drunk but have tried and lost their Christian faith completely.
The overriding factor for everyone therefore should be what paul said
Rom 14:15 If you are hurting others by the foods you eat, you are not guided by love. Don't let your appetite destroy someone Christ died for.
Rom 14:16 Don't let your right to eat bring shame to Christ.
Rom 14:17 God's kingdom isn't about eating and drinking. It is about pleasing God, about living in peace, and about true happiness. All this comes from the Holy Spirit.


AS MUCH AS IT IS WITHIN YOUR POWER, STAY AWAY FROM ALCOHOL
peace

We as christians are obligated to teach the truth, why this topic has dragged this long is because some christians in their quest to show how pious they are and possibly look with disdain on others (reminds me of the pharisees) have chosen to condemn alcohol and clasify it as sin. And in order to justify their position have decided to twist the truth, distorting the scriptures by coming up with a misnomer that the wine in the scriptures is non-alcoholic wine. All you need to do to see how they feel about this is to mention that you take alcohol and they would want to deliver you immediately and cast the spirit of alcohol from you.

Remember Jesus Christ said YOU DO NOT PUT NEW WINE IN OLD WINESKIN, IF YOU DO THE WINESKIN WOULD BURST. Please guys, its only alcoholic drinks that have fermented that does that, no juice, or 'non-alcoholic wine' does that. That is the truth of the scriptures and distorting it would be dishonoring Jesus and insulting the Almighty God by declaring what God has made clean and calling it unclean (remember peter and the unclean meat)
This action of holier-than-God in itself is a greater sin than the sin of drunkeness or stumbling others because you take alcohol in moderation, it is blasphemy and it an insult to the power of the holy spirit that revealed the truth to those who penned the scriptures.

Wine was a major source of revenue for the israelite household, that why you would always hear of cultivation of vineyard in the israelite household, in fact it was seen as blessing a from God.  Below are some examples of how the Israelites used Wine, it was part of their social fabric
of the Israelites.

The recorded history of wine making is more than forty-three hundred years old, the oldest account telling how Noah planted a vineyard after the Flood and made wine from its grapes. (Gen. 9:20, 21) From earliest times this beverage has been used at mealtime, (Gen. 27:25; Eccl. 9:7) Wine, bread and other foods are often associated together. (1 Sam. 16:20; Song of Sol. 5:1; Isa. 22:13; 55:1) Melchizedek set “bread and wine” before Abraham. (Gen. 14:18-20) Jesus drank wine with his meals when it was available.—Matt. 11:19; Luke 7:34.

Wine was very much a part of special celebration—banquets (Esther 1:7; 5:6; 7:2, 7, 8; Dan. 5:1, 2, 4), wedding feasts (John 2:3, 9, 10; 4:46), and other festivals. (1 Chron. 12:39, 40; Job 1:13, 18) The royal commissaries were stocked with wines (1 Chron. 27:27; 2 Chron. 11:11); King Solomon had his “house of wine” (Song of Sol. 2:4); it was the customary beverage of kings and governors. (Neh. 2:1; 5:15, 18; Dan. 1:5, 8, 16) Travelers often included it in their provisions for the journey.—Josh. 9:4, 13; Judg. 19:19.

Here is a beverage that can be kept for years, even improving in smoothness, mellowness and quality with age. In fact, it is the only beverage that improves after being bottled. For this reason, and because of its widespread usage, wine became a commodity of trade (Neh. 13:15), the “wine of Helbon” (preferred by the kings of Persia) and the “wine of Lebanon” being particularly famous.—Ezek. 27:18; Hos. 14:7.

Solomon used wine as a medium of payment for materials used in building the temple. (2 Chron. 2:8-10, 15) It was considered an excellent gift for one’s superiors (1 Sam. 25:18; 2 Sam. 16:1, 2), and it was included in the tithing contribution given for the support of the priests and Levites. (Deut. 18:3, 4; 2 Chron. 31:4, 5; Neh. 10:37, 39; 13:5, 12) Fittingly, wine was among the choice things offered up to Jehovah in sacrificial worship of him. (Ex. 29:38, 40; Lev. 23:13; Num. 15:5, 7, 10; 28:14; 1 Sam. 1:24; 10:3; Hos. 9:4).

It is true that we dont want to stumble others who are of little faith or who are just growing spiritually, mature christians do not want to unnecessarily stumble others, maybe by visiting beer parlors (am not saying it is wrong) or pressuring people to join in drinking or extolling the beauty of wine to those who would otherwise not take them or being noted as a connoiseur of wine. But we also have a greater duty to help them grow to christian maturity, by letting them know the truth about a whole range of issues as explained by the scriptures.

Alcohol is sin, period!

Image123:

I'll not enter deep into the discuss now but there's need to say that when people refer to alcohol, it includes the likes of shepe, ogogoro, schinapps, star extra lager 'the clear leader' etc. I believe it'll be at best naive to argue that Jesus will take these in the sense that it's taken if he were living with us. But I'll like to ask what it means to drink responsibly. Is it a sip, 2 bottles or 4crates? How responsible can we drink and how liberal can we be so as not be considered as conservative or legalistic? Also, is there a difference between wine and strong drink? If yes, what drinks can we put as examples? Looking forward to your response(s)

Alcohol is a chemical compound and any drink that contains a significant amount of it is considered to be an alcoholic drink/strong drink/intoxicating liquor. So all the drinks you listed above falls in this category and countless others such as palmwine. In the case of Jesus christ, the drink that was prevalent then was wine from grapes grown in vineyards, which was part of the israelite social lifestyle and worship from time immemorial (check my previous quote).

The Bible does not quantify the amount that is too much, each person knows his limits and what he can take. Take for instance food, we all eat and we have a fairly good idea of what it is to take too much food. There are people we would say does not know how to eat, beacause they eat small amounts, and there are some of our friends that we all know can eat a lot and everyone would generally agree. So its not far fetched too to easily identify those who have taken more than moderation, each person should watch himself beacause we individually have an accounting to make before God. So if you can eat responsibly without people saying you eat too much, so also can you drink responsibly without people celebrating you as a champion drinker.
Also the Bible condemns being a slave to anything, so if you found out that you just have to take alcohol before you can function be it little or much, then it is a SIN.
It is also wrong to keep on strecthing the limits of the alcohol conent you can take, the Bible clearly condemns those 'who stay a long time with wine' and ' those who delight in mixing wine'. The Bible here is not just condemning drunkenness but also talking about attitude towards its usage.

In addition to my earlier post these are some of the ways the Bible portrays wine, not the Sinful picture some people wants to force down our throat.
Wine “makes God and men rejoice”; it “makes the heart of mortal man rejoice”; it puts the heart in “a merry mood.” (Judg. 9:13; Ps. 104:15; Esther 1:10; 2 Sam. 13:28; Eccl. 2:3; 10:19; Zech. 10:7) Hence, Daniel when in mourning drank no wine. (Dan. 10:2, 3) An abundant supply of wine, symbolized by the “vine” in the oft repeated expression ‘sitting under one’s own vine and fig tree,’ denotes prosperity and security under Jehovah’s righteous administration. (1 Ki. 4:25; 2 Ki. 18:31; Isa. 36:16; Mic. 4:4; Zech. 3:10) Wine is also included in the ‘restoration blessings’ promised by Jehovah. (Joel 3:18; Amos 9:13, 14; Zech. 9:17) Such blessings, however, depend on faithfulness to Jehovah and strict obedience to his righteous requirements. Disobedience means the converse: calamity and desolation with little or no wine.—Deut. 28:39; Isa. 24:7-11; Amos 5:11; Mic. 6:15; Zeph. 1:13; Hag. 1:11.

Just for the records, i dont enjoy taking alcohol, except maybe palmwine and a few other wines and i rarely take them, and i have never been drunk before over the last 15 years since i first remember tasting beer. Am not an advocate of wine/beer but the truth of the scritures must stand forever, traditions of men/pastors must not be preached above that of the scriptures.

Nezan:

Alcohol is sin, period!

If you are a muslim and the quran condemns alcohol, then it is a sin to you, but if you are a christian, you dont tell us what is sin, THE BIBLE DOES.

rabzy:

Just for the records, i dont enjoy taking alcohol, except maybe palmwine and a few other wines and i rarely take them, and i have never been drunk before over the last 15 years since i first remember tasting beer. Am not an advocate of wine/beer but the truth of the scritures must stand forever, traditions of men/pastors must not be preached above that of the scriptures.

@Rabzy
Thanx for your thorough, objective and incisive posts on the subject matter. The above highlighted is the crux of the matter traditions/doctrines of men/pastors have taken over the true word of God in our society today and most people can't tell the difference anymore.

@rabzy
Thank you for your reply, it's really appreciated. I like to practice godliness, not just stick theory, verses and commentaries in my head, that why I asked my previous question. You know, when you look at the initial post i.e mrfrancs', he's talking about his friend that sells alcohol and takes some. What is in my mind is that his friend is selling stuff like guiness stout, star, harp and co. Or maybe something like paraga, shepe and co. I don't think the alcohol he is talking about is methyl spirit, or Ethanol, or 'vine juice' or palmwine. It is this picture that I'm looking at.
I think it is hypocritical and delusional for many to argue that bible characters took the fruit of the vine and then use it to justify their taking the drinks that have held MILLIONS captive, wrecked many a home and is major source of road accidents and deaths all over the world.
I'll also add that most of the pro-beer people in the house seem to be typing under the influence. Quoting bible out of context doesn't change truth. Truth stands and it takes revelation to truly obey truth, though some obey by conformity or compulsion.

@Image123
From my past dialogues with you on this forum, i have comne to the conclusion that you are one of those zombie"christians" who just swallow what ever is popular twisted church doctrine that you hear on the pulpit even when it is obvious it is not scripturally sound you twist scriptures to justify the delusion. One thing is crystal clear from the bible, Jesus was a regular driner of alcoholic wine and no matter how much you want to deny or ignore that it still remains a biblical fact{luke 7:33-34}. If you are truly a christian you should be more interested in standing for the truth even it goes against what your pastor whom you worship as told you.

Kunle my guy, how you dey? You no dey change? I'm yet 2 quote any scripture and you're already talking about me twisting scripture to justify delusion. Stop assuming the duties of a self righteous judge. Man, learn to listen to others, your views alone are correct to you. Every other person na zombie, dump the tension uncle kuns.
You seem to enjoy Luke 7:33,34. Have you ever bothered about the context of that passage, or you're content to run with the letter? The letter never profits, it is the Spirit that brings life. That the Lord Jesus said that John the baptist came 'neither eating bread' should be enough to tell you that Jesus is speaking in context. He's not saying that John didn't take food. He's saying John wasn't 'social',yet the men said he had a devil. jesus was 'social' and they still called him names. Or do you interpret the letter to mean that John did not take bread? Luke6:33
It is not biblical fact that Jesus was a regular 'drinker'. You've asserted that more than once. That was the perception of the men of that generation. This is simple english, why has the god of this world so blinded people's eyes. The people thought John had a devil and Jesus was a winebiber(regular 'drinker'). Thats what Luke 6:33,34. Ye say, ye say, not 'biblical fact'. Stop what my friend likes to call eisegesis!
And please respond like a christian, without personal bitterness and animosity.

KunleOshob:

We are not in agreement O! the fact still remains that Jesus our ultimate example clearly used to consume alcohol on a regular basis {luke 7:33-34 makes this very clear, even if you decided to ignore the obvious} Your analogies don't hold water as their is no place in the bible which even remotely suggests christian should not consume alcohol if any thing at all it is endorsed by the actions of Jesus and the apostles. You are obviously trying to force your bias into the bible through the linking of unrelated scriptures to butress your point whilst ignoring the very obvious facts that those Christ himself and the apostles indulged in the consumption of the very alcohol you are implying christians should not drink. I am sure you are aware that it is a sin to add to or remove from th scriptures  . My position remains as far as the bible is corcernd: Moderation is key.
God bless.

On the bolded parts, I think you are not being fair here. My posts do not in anyway portray that.

On this issue I am of the assumption that we are christians with the altimate aim of being the best we can  for God. I am also of the assumption that we are prepared to "sacrifice our right hand"  instead of eternal damnation with the whole body.

My post has solely been based on the fact that drunkenness and addiction are sin.

However, due to the biblical concerns regarding alcohol and its effects, due to the easy temptation to consume alcohol in excess, and due to the possibility of causing offense and/or stumbling of others,due to the ease of making mistakes that an affect generations (ask Lot and Noah)  it is usually best for a Christian to abstain entirely from drinking alcohol.

peace

Sin against who?

@Christians

Thats the Problem i do have with Christians one would not know whos is Interpreting the Correct meaning of the scripture. Different meaning on issues all the time.

Is Alcohol a sin YES or NO CHRISTIANS.

No!!

hi, let us not be deceive by our fellow xtian , i don't see any thing wrong in taking alcohol, the only sin i see on it is when you  to take too much. and leads u to ungodly act is were the sin comes. if u can control yourself modestly it not a sin. GOD created win for us to enjoy it. no non o no is not a sin

hi, let us not be deceive by our fellow xtian , i don't see any thing wrong in taking alcohol, the only sin i see on it is when you  to take too much. and leads u to ungodly act is were the sin comes. if u can control yourself modestly it  a sin. GOD created win for us to enjoy it. that i don't take alcohol does not mean is a sin

I'm a Christian, take wine occasionally and in moderation. For example, the last time I took red wine was on a plane when I was served by the airline, does this example make me sinful?

KunleOshob:

One thing is crystal clear from the bible, Jesus was a regular driner of alcoholic wine and no matter how much you want to deny or ignore that it still remains a biblical fact{luke 7:33-34}.

Kunle, men, when I grow up, I want to be like you o!

Do you know I've never read, or perhaps, it's never occurred to me before reading this your post that Christ was called a gluttony and a drunkard! Ofcourse Jesus can't get drunk by drinking "Fruity" wine, Truth is good o, although can be bitter. These same peeps in Luke 7 called John the baptist a demon for eating no bread and drinking no wine.

Check out this notes from Barnes commentary on Matthew 11:16 - 19 ,

Wine-bibber. One who drinks much wine. A great drinker. Jesus undoubtedly lived according to the general customs of the people of his time. He did not affect singularity; he did not separate himself as a Nazarene; he did not practise severe austerities. He ate that which was common, and drank that which was common. As wine was a common article of beverage among the people, he drank it.

In most of the bible versions I read, he was either called a wine bibber or a drunkard in Luke 7:34, that doesn't mean the people who are calling him that are right though, but in other to understand the bible's take on what wine is and what wine bibbing is, I had to read a little further.

I got some of these references:

We all know Jesus made wine as per John 2:3-11, particularly verse 10, The main point of call is what kind of wine,  freshly pressed wine or not? I couldn't get my head round why people will get drunk of "fruity" wine though. So I decided to look up some references.

I also checked up the Hebrew word for drink as used in Isaiah 1:22, 24:11, Micah 6:15.

For Is 1:22 The KJV strong version called it wine and used the word: Cobe' which means drink/liquor/wine. This is a Noun word formed from the word Caba - a verb which means to winebibe, drink heavily or get drunk(as in drunkard, sounds familiar?); So what is liquor, a drink strong enough to make one drunk if taken out of moderation? or a fruity drink?

AMP Bible states for Micah 6:15 -
"You shall sow but not reap; you shall tread olives but not anoint yourselves with oil, and [you shall extract juice from] the grapes but not drink the wine."
NKJV
"You shall sow, but not reap; You shall tread the olives, but not anoint yourselves with oil; And make sweet wine, but not drink wine."

The sweet wine bit is coined from the word: Tiyrowsh, a freshly pressed wine; NAS Strong numbers referred this to as "GRAPES" ,  clearly a fruity/juicy kind of drink.
Meanwhile the second wine bit has an hebrew word which is: Yayin; which KJV Strong numbers referred wine as in winebibbing, Yayin as an Hebrew word is from an unused root meaning to effervesce. I checked my dictionary word for effervesce, it means: "To emit small bubbles of gas, as a carbonated or fermenting liquid." - sounds like a glass of Champagne?

So clearly, in the Bible days, there was Tiyrowsh, and also Yayin as in Cobe'.

To my suprise, wine as in Yayin was used as "drink offering" unto the Lord in Exodus 29:40 and Num 15:4-10.

To my greatest surprised, the King Lemuel was told something about not drinking wine: not to drink strong wine and that princes shouldn't drink wine so that they may forget stuff:

Proverbs 31:4,
NAS version: "It is not for kings, O Lemuel, It is not for kings to drink wine(Yayin), Or for rulers to desire strong drink(Shekar)" - Shekar means intoxicating liquor as in beer.
NLT version: "And it is not for kings, O Lemuel, to guzzle wine. Rulers should not crave liquor." - guzzle means to To drink greedily, excessively or habitually.

1Timothy 5:23.
Funny enough, none of these words were used with Christ in NT, in 1 Tim 5:23, Oinos a Greek word was used for wine, same in John 2:9 an Luke 7:34 as Oinopotes, which was formed from Oinos. The KJV and NAS strong numbers confirms Oinos is a greek word which has it's root origin from Hebrew word Yayin ,  sounds familiar? Yes, This is a confirmation that Christ made Yayin in John 2 and being accused of drinking too much of Yayin in Luke 7:34.

Btw during the Last Supper when Christ broke bread and gave them cup to drink that it's his blood. In verse 29 of Matt 26, he said that he wouldn't drink wine again from this cup. So which wine did Christ give to the disciples at the last supper, I know what you're thinking, it's not Yayin, it's Ampelos, transcribed to vine. NAS/KJV described the wine as the "fruit of the vine". This is clearly different from the wine in Luke 7 and 1 tim 5:23. I like the way NLT puts it:
NLT Matt 25:29 "Mark my words – I will not drink wine again until the day I drink it new with you in my Father's Kingdom." - wine here is from the greek word Ampelos - "fruit of vine"

Many Many words I went through, but let me summarise my findings: If Christ consumed Oinos (greek word derived from Yayin) and it still didn't affect his teaching and way of life, I will say he didn't drink too much of it as in Prov 31:4. Ofcourse there are Christians that will say strong drink - Shekar/Yayin is wrong, but if Christ consumed it, then it definately can't be a sin, too much of it is what is forbidden as far as what the Bible says IMO.

Allta

Image123:

I'll not enter deep into the discuss now but there's need to say that when people refer to alcohol, it includes the likes of shepe, ogogoro, schinapps, star extra lager 'the clear leader' etc. I believe it'll be at best naive to argue that Jesus will take these in the sense that it's taken if he were living with us. But I'll like to ask what it means to drink responsibly. Is it a sip, 2 bottles or 4crates? How responsible can we drink and how liberal can we be so as not be considered as conservative or legalistic? Also, is there a difference between wine and strong drink? If yes, what drinks can we put as examples? Looking forward to your response(s)

IMO, To drink responsibly can be relative to each individuals, I have a colleague who consumes 10 pints and doesn't affect him. But in other to have a generic level of acceptable drinking, you have to look at a country such as England where everyone is allowed a limit they can consume before doing such things as driving.

What I'm saying in reference to image123's question is that so many scientific test has been done and a whole country have adopted a law that says if you consume more than X number of pints of alcohol then you're not fit to drive. I will like to stick to such level of acceptable drinking as drinking responsibly.

Nezan:

Alcohol is sin, period!

I'll like to compare this statement with Money. Is Money the root of all evil? No, But the Love of Money is the root of all evil, absolutely YES!
So is Alcohol (Strong drink) sin? No, But too much of Alcohol is sinful and forbidden from Bible's perspective, absolutely YES!

I want to chip in this point that God has made everything good. Whether it is gold, sand, trees, water, fire, uranium, or crude oil. It is man that has sought out many inventions and abused, instead of putting to right/lawful use. And sin is the transgression of the law.
The premise that God created alcohol therefore it is good for consumption is flawed. The same excuse can be used for sand, stones and fellow humans.
The issue is that many who canvass for alcohol consumption do not bear in mind that there are different types of alcohol. Infact, alcohol itself cannot be taken in ordinarily, that's suicide. So let's make a difference between. Wine itself is different from beer, and wine get classes and types. It'll be wrong to put all(e.g lager, ale, stout, juice, paraga etc) together and say 'they drank wine in the bible- alcohol is good. It pays to look WELL before you leap.

I want to chip in this point that God has made everything good. Whether it is gold, sand, trees, water, fire, uranium, or crude oil. It is man that has sought out many inventions and abused, instead of putting to right/lawful use. And sin is the transgression of the law.
The premise that God created alcohol therefore it is good for consumption is flawed. The same excuse can be used for sand, stones and fellow humans.
The issue is that many who canvass for alcohol consumption do not bear in mind that there are different types of alcohol. Infact, alcohol itself cannot be taken in ordinarily, that's suicide. So let's make a difference between. Wine itself is different from beer, and wine get classes and types. It'll be wrong to put all(e.g lager, ale, stout, juice, paraga etc) together and say 'they drank wine in the bible- alcohol is good. It pays to look WELL before you leap.

@Allta
It's good that you hope to be like Jesus in the future, not like someone you barely know.
I posted something on Luke 7v33,34. Hope you read it? The passage says John came neither eating bread. Does He literally mean that John lived without food? What sort of wine was Jesus drinking i.e what was the alcoholic content, any idea? Was Jesus a winebiber and gluttonous as a matter of 'biblical fact'? These are questions we should consider well in our working, so as not to arrive in what is called WURUWURU to the answer

@Allta
It's good that you hope to be like Jesus in the future, not like someone you barely know.
I posted something on Luke 7v33,34. Hope you read it? The passage says John came neither eating bread. Does He literally mean that John lived without food? What sort of wine was Jesus drinking i.e what was the alcoholic content, any idea? Was Jesus a winebiber and gluttonous as a matter of 'biblical fact'? These are questions we should consider well in our working, so as not to arrive in what is called WURUWURU to the answer

Image123:

  The premise that God created alcohol therefore it is good for consumption is flawed. The same excuse can be used for sand, stones and fellow humans.
  The issue is that many who canvass for alcohol consumption do not bear in mind that there are different types of alcohol. Infact, alcohol itself cannot be taken in ordinarily, that's suicide. So let's make a difference between. Wine itself is different from beer, and wine get classes and types. It'll be wrong to put all(e.g lager, ale, stout, juice, paraga etc) together and say 'they drank wine in the bible- alcohol is good. It pays to look WELL before you leap.

So now we're saying alcohol get category, it's ok to drink wine (a type of alcoholic drink with 14% alcohol) in moderation but not beer (another type of alcohol usually 90% less than 8% alcohol) in moderation. Christ turned water into Yayin - a carbonated and fermented liquid - wine but not alcohol? He was called a drunkard for drinking wine in moderation and not alcohol. I wonder how they were able to differentiate between wine and alcohol those days self. But one thing is certain, whatever Christ was drinking is enough to make someone to be called a drunkard! and there were so many places in the bible where they called someone a drunkard/winebibber!

Let's go back to the basics, what's the difference between wine and alcohol self?
From Dictionary:
ALCOHOL: "a colorless, limpid, volatile, flammable, water-miscible liquid, C2H5OH, having an etherlike odor and pungent, burning taste, the intoxicating principle of fermented liquors, produced by yeast fermentation of certain carbohydrates, as grains, molasses, starch, or sugar, or obtained synthetically by hydration of ethylene or as a by-product of certain hydrocarbon syntheses: used chiefly as a solvent in the extraction of specific substances, in beverages, medicines, organic synthesis, lotions, tonics, colognes, rubbing compounds, as an automobile radiator antifreeze, and as a rocket fuel." eg. "whiskey, gin, vodka, or any other intoxicating liquor containing this liquid."

WINE: "the fermented juice of grapes, made in many varieties, such as red, white, sweet, dry, still, and sparkling, for use as a beverage, in cooking, in religious rites, etc., and usually having an alcoholic content of 14 percent or less."

Having seen this, I must admit that wine is different from alcohol in the context of your point above, but if wine isn't a sin, then I see no reason why alcohol should be! But too much wine can be sinful, and too much alcohol can too!

Image123:

@Allta
It's good that you hope to be like Jesus in the future, not like someone you barely know.
I posted something on Luke 7v33,34. Hope you read it? The passage says John came neither eating bread. Does He literally mean that John lived without food? What sort of wine was Jesus drinking i.e what was the alcoholic content, any idea? Was Jesus a winebiber and gluttonous as a matter of 'biblical fact'? These are questions we should consider well in our working, so as not to arrive in what is called WURUWURU to the answer

Hahahah! You remind me of my Secondary school days! WURUWURU to the answer! lol!

First my statement about wanting to be like Kunle is personal and why not? The fact that I want to be like Peter or Paul or Timothy in NT doesn't mean I can't be like Christ! Yah dig?
Ok, let's assume the saying that John came "neither eating bread" is metaphorical as in form of parables, I agree with you that, that doesn't nullify the fact that John consumed bread! Have a look at New Living Translation of verse 33 and 34:-

NLT Translation for Luke 7:33 and 34
"For John the Baptist didn't drink wine and he often fasted, and you say, 'He's demon possessed.' "

"And I, the Son of Man, feast and drink, and you say, 'He's a glutton and a drunkard, and a friend of the worst sort of sinners!"

So when Christ was saying John neither eat bread nor drank, he was actually referring to FASTING dude. not that John never consumed bread!

Please IMO, Christ produced wine(Yayin) at that marriage ceremony, are you saying he didn't drink of it? Are you saying he never drank wine(Yayin) and people were calling him winebibber? Why did Paul ask Timothy to mix some wine(Oinos) with water to drink in 1 Tim 5:23 ,  my brother biko, wine and alcohol is good, too much of it is bad!

Jesus eats well and drink moderately, he also dine with the non-traditional religious peeps, that's why they call him gluttony, drunkard and friends of the sinners. What he did, clearly, didn't make him anything of those, just like we can't say John was demon possessed for fasting and not drinking! Yah dig?

Allta:

So now we're saying alcohol get category, it's ok to drink wine (a type of alcoholic drink with 14% alcohol) in moderation but not beer (another type of alcohol maybe 90% alcohol) in moderation. Christ turned water into Yayin - a carbonated and fermented liquid - wine but not alcohol?

Image123:

Wine itself is different from beer, and wine get classes and types. It'll be wrong to put all(e.g lager, ale, stout, juice, paraga etc) together and say 'they drank wine in the bible- alcohol is good. It pays to look WELL before you leap.

@Image123
Whilst wine is obviously different from beer i would like to let you know that it is far less intoxticating than the wine Jesus took. Whilst wine contains 11-14% alcoholic content, beer invaribly contains about 3-7% alcohol. So going by your logic since beer is much milder than wine which Jesus took, it is percfectly in order for us to consume it.

brotherly:

My post has solely been based on the fact that drunkenness and addiction are sin.

However, due to the biblical concerns regarding alcohol and its effects, due to the easy temptation to consume alcohol in excess, and due to the possibility of causing offense and/or stumbling of others,due to the ease of making mistakes that an affect generations (ask Lot and Noah)  it is usually best for a Christian to abstain entirely from drinking alcohol.
peace

In the light of the above it is better preached that christians are encouraged to abstain from the consumption, ordinary moderate consumption should not be presented as a biblical sin as those doing so are twisting the word of God to butress their point and commiting an even greater sin. In our mis-placed zealousness we should not be guilty of adding to or subtracting from the word of God.