My neighbor and friend is an assistant professor of electrical engineering and also from Iran, and as usual he invites me occasionally for dinner, especially during the month of Ramadan. He has other friends from Iran, Pakistan, Palestine, Jordan and Egypt.

Most of us are single young professionals, but a few of us are married (or have girl friends - all the women in our lives are Muslim women ). One evening, a wife of one of the guys cooked lavishly for us. It was a great meal! It was Mediterranean, sumptuous and in three phases - appetizer, main dish and dessert. I loved the dessert the most!

As is typical with young intellectuals thinking of how to change the world, our discussions went into the most interesting of all topics: Politics - after paying homage to Sports (they all love Nigerian football - I was the only Nigerian in the group). As we discussed politics, we moved from the Iraq war, to the U.S. media, to the war in Afghanistan and, of course, to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. Gradually, the discussion started shifting to the unclear boundary between Politics and Religion. We talked about Nigeria, oil, Sharia in Nigeria, Sharia in Saudi-Arabia, and Sharia in the broad sense. We were all pretty much in the same camp until the discussion started entering another unclear region, the region interfacing Sharia and Human Rights, a sub-region of the Politics-Religion interface.

We sort of split into three groups:
1. Those that believe Sharia trumps Human Rights - the smallest group
2. Those that didn't want to get in on the debate - the largest group
3. Those that believe Human Rights trumped Sharia - of course my group

I brought up tons of instances where I believed the application of contemporary interpretations of Sharia law was indisputably barbaric, e.g., in Northern Nigeria, where a hungry thief steals a tuber of yam or a N5 note and is promptly amputated, but the LGA chairman or state governor or commissioner steals millions of dollars and is made a chief and promoted. Or the countless cases of decapitations in Saudi-Arabia, and so far not a single person in the royal family has even been lashed. They all mostly agreed that the implementation of Sharia today in most parts of the world is flawed and inconsistent with the true teachings of Islam. One of the guys from Jordan said that politicians have hijacked Sharia and only use it to further their agenda. He also said that according to Islam, those hungry thieves should have been provided for so that it is not out of hunger that they go steal. Sensible arguments!

Most of them had very harsh words for Saudi-Arabia, especially after I made my case of how immigrants, Muslims from Pakistan, Sri Lanka and India are treated in Saudi-Arabia. While on Saudi-Arabia, I listed the crimes that could result in one being decapitated, but was most interested in the crime of apostasy. I asked for an explanation but they seemed to get my drift and refused to explain. Then I asked the question that ripped through the group and forcibly rearranged us into only two groups:
1. The "Yes" group - a single person
2. The "No" group - the rest of us

The question? Here it is:

Is it according to Sharia or Islam to kill any Muslim who converts to another religion?

The lone person in the "Yes" defended himself by saying that that is what is in the Hadith (or Qu'ran - not sure which one he said). The other Muslims told him that such an interpretation was wrong. One person said, the Qu'ran is written in a poetic form of Arabic that uses words in ways that should not be taken literally. The argument went on and on until I asked the "Yes' guy this question:

If your daughter grew up to be, say 18 years, and says to you "dad, I've converted to a different faith, I'm now a Christian", would you chant praises to Allah as the men who are supposed to kill her drag her from your arms to her death?

He stammered, shook his head and said "he will never kill his daughter". I rested my case.

My questions to my Muslim brothers and sisters:

Given two Muslims, X and Y, such that Y converts to Christianity, or any other religion:
1. Does Islam prescribe any action that X should take against Y?
2. What is this action, if any?
3. What does the Qu'ran say about what X should do to Y?
4. What does the Hadith say about what X should do to Y?
5. Is there any punishment for X should he/she refuse to take the prescribed action on Y?
6. What do Muslim scholars say about what X should do to Y?
7. Is there an agreement as to what the scholars recommend?
8. If X is supposed to take a prescribed action against Y, but can't do it because of local laws, what should X do?
9. Does the situation change if Y was a Christian who converted to Islam and now decided to convert back to Christianity?
10. If Y was born a Muslim (as opposed to a convert to Islam), are the prescribed actions, if any, harsher?

I welcome any honest/sincere response to any of the questions above.

All I'm doing is moving the debate from a small group of young Muslim men to wider group of Muslim men and women.

Thank you.

Richie, would i be right in guessing you've not been invited back for another ramadan meal? 
I would love to have been in that meeting armed with a few facts and figures.

@Richy

This topic was addressed at lenght by Olabowale. I will post the link if I find it.

@David

I am certain that he was reinvited, you wanna know why? read his posts. Maybe you can borrow a leaf!

ayinba1:

@David

I am certain that he was reinvited, you wanna know why? read his posts. Maybe you can borrow a leaf!

there is nothing in his post to suggest he was reinvited. I have read a similar story before, the dude was never invited back again.

I dont need to borrow a leaf, they would literally have to kill me because of the volume of information i'd be discussing with them as regards their religion.

What Richie's discussion exposed was a lot more than you think . . . it exposed the fact that a large chunk of islam is obscure and very few muslims even understand the laws they practice.

Any answers? I'm sure this thread would be worth following!

Before david started patting himself emptyly on the back, let me point out many facts:

1) The Book of Sole Authority in Islam is Quran.
a) Hadith and Sunnah explains and supports the relevant verse or verses that it addresses.

2) The human legislator for Allah is Muhammad (AS).
a) The sahabah, lived Quran as the Human personification lived it while they witnessed it
b) The tabiin saw the sahabah (RA) of Muhammad (AS) lived and explained to them so that the chain is not broken and no one begin their own Islam
c) The tabi tabiin saw the tabiin lived what the sahabah of Muhammad (AS) did and the chain continues, unbroken in the hearts and mind of Muminu

3) Iman Malik or was it Ahmad went to Madina and at the grave of the messenger/prophet (AS) point and said; everyone can be questioned, except
   the owner of this "Grave!"


Now that this is clear; the foundamentals of Islam is seen in the lifetime of the prophet, for if there is anything still missing then, islam would have not have been complete. And Allah says in the 3rd verse of the 5th Chapter that "Islam is complete, as a chosen religion and a favor for mankind and whosoever come to Him with anythng else, will be rejected and not acceptable!"


Since we are now talking about apostatesy, we must never forget that we have to look into what Quran says about it and how the messenger (AS) explained it to be carried forward. What others do outside of this, be they Presidents, Kings, Prime ministers, Imams, Judges, etc, singularly or communually, it does not matter, they are majority in head counts only and not in piety to Allah!


In Surah 4 verse 59, Allah says of the believers to hasten to Him and His Messenger and those in authority. The qualification of the one in authority is not just because he occupies a position, but that he is in line with what the Prophet says of Quran by his ahadith and sunnah, not creating his own H(islam)!


My situation now is to let us find out what Quran says by actual verses from it, talking about the people in that religion; Chapter 2 verse 208 says oh believer, enter islam wholeheartedly. This statement means exactly that, ridding the heart of all that is unislamic, and personal desire. Surah 2; verse 256 says there is no compulsion in religion, and Chapter 4:137 says "Those who believe, then reject faith, then believe (again) and (again) reject faith, and go on increasing in unbelief,- Allah will not forgive them nor guide them nor guide them on the way."


As it pains me, to see anyone reject faith in Allah, leaving out of islam, there is nothing one can do about it, except to have dialogue in the best of manner with him/her to understand why as Allah says in the Quran: about inviting people to islam in the best of manners and wisdom(Chapter 16 verse 125.

Now as we have seen, that Quran allows by verses for others to practice their religion, including apostates.

Is there a permission to kill apostates; born or reverted into islam and then left it? First an apostate is a person who left islam, and it does not matter whether born or reverted. But we have seen many verses that allow freedom of religion, and if a specific class of apostate is to be killed is now the question. We must therefore look into the Quran and fish out ahadith that suport any type of killing of apostatasy, and be unabashed about it, regardless of what the arabs or non arabs say, Islam stands on its own and muslim will have to be judged by it as it is outlined in the Quran and Ahadith/sunnah:


I do not find a verse in the Quran that says "kill anyone or all persons" just for leaving out of islam. And there is no authentic ahadith that says the same thing. The reason to kill therefore must be more than just leaving islam, otherwise there would not have been any reason for the many verses in Quran preserving lives, giving chances and opportunities for return to islam.

The persons killed have to be that they malign Islam, trying to destroy it, initially by joining it, within intention to go out and leave with others as well. When out of Islam, he/she openly waged war of ammo or wounding words, as said again maligning it, relentlessly hoping to damage it, as he is in the words of George Bush either with islam or with Them; pagans and enemies of islam!"


An enemy who attacks you was not intending that you survive, except to succumb to his intention; destruction of you. And if you have a chance to defend yourself, will you not do it, otherwise he is bent on killing you? Many in the early days of islam were determined to destroy islam and they joined it as a fad, then soon left it to begin open enemity in their campaign against the young society. the colluded with the pagans in every way they find. Should the muslims not react to them? These individuals are in a class by themselves and it is that class that is permissable to kill off, not all and every apostate! The same apostate who left so easily, harmless can also come back to it without more than realisation of the truth.

I have an older friend in lagos, actually her daughter is a dear friend of mine. Mrs Oulaja converted out of islam for many years, throughout her marriage, until just merely 5 years ago. Her children are now at the border of being 50 years old ladies, and Dolapo who is my friend was shocked as the nee bashua of Lagos returned, dubbing herself: one of the people who made the right choice, in fashion of an islamic book "Islam our choice!"

"kill whoever changes his religion". But this hadith is open to varying interpretations on several grounds.

First, this hadith is considered a weak hadith with just a single isnad (this means there is only one chain of transmission or narration) and thus according to the rules of Islamic jurisprudence, it is not enough to validate the death penalty.

Second, this hadith is also considered a general ('amm) hadith in that it is in need of specification (takhsis); for it would otherwise convey a meaning that is not within its purpose. The obvious reading of the hadith would, for example, make liable the death punishment on a Hindu or Christian who converts to Islam. This is obviously not the intention of the hadith. According to the rules of Islamic jurisprudence, when a text is interpreted once, it becomes open to further interpretation and specification. Therefore, many scholars interpret this hadith to apply only to cases of high treason (hirabah), which means declaring war against Islam, the Prophet, or God or the legitimate leadership of the ummah.

Third, and most importantly, there is no evidence to show that Prophet Muhammad saw or his Companions ever compelled anyone to embrace Islam, nor did they sentence anyone to death solely for renunciation of the faith.

Based on these three reasons and the Qur'anic principle of freedom of religion, prominent ulama (scholars) from the seventh to the twentieth centuries have come out with the position that there can be no death penalty for apostasy. According to Professor Hashim Kamali in his award-winning book, [b]Freedom of Expression in Islam, two leading jurists of the generation succeeding the Companions, Ibrahim al-Naka'I and Sufyan al-Thawri, both held that the apostate should be re-invited to Islam, but should never be condemned to death. The renowned Hanafi jurist, Shams al-Din al-Sarakhsi wrote that even though renunciation of faith is the greatest of offences, it is a matter between man and his Creator, and its punishment is postponed to the Day of Judgement. The Maliki jurist Abul Walid al-Baji and the renowned Hanbali jurist Ibn Taymiyyah have both held that apostasy is a sin which carries no hard punishment.[/b]visit,

In modern times, the celebrated Sheikh of al-Azhar University, the late Mahmud Shaltut who was esteemed for his vast knowledge of Islamic jurisprudence and Qur'anic interpretation, wrote that many ulama are in agreement that hudud cannot be established by a solitary hadith and that unbelief by itself does not call for the death penalty. The current Sheikh of al-Azhar, who was Egypt's former Grand Mufti, Dr Mohammed Sayed Tantawi, also declared that apostasy is not a capital crime.

Many scholars, including Ibn Taymiyyah, Shaltut and Tantawi, said that the death penalty was not meant to apply to a simple change of faith, but to hirabah, that is, when apostasy is accompanied by rebellion against the community and its legitimate leadership.

For Further readings: please go to Apostates: Should they be killed or saved?
Mar 28, 2006 , In order for a human being to accept Islam as his religion, he must be certain about it first. , "I found another verse in the Quran that dealt with apostates. , Notice that the Quran says those who reject faith and then , twentieth centuries have come out with the position that there can be ,
www.answering-christianity.com/apostates.htm - Cached - Similar

"Thus We have appointed you a model community (Ummah), that you may be witnesses against mankind, and that the Messenger may be a witness against you". [Quran 2:143]

Noble Verse 39:18 "Those who listen to the word, then follow the best of it; those are they whom Allah has guided, and those it is who are the men of understanding."


"Those who are present should convey (my message) to those who are not". [Al-Bukhaari]
"Whoever guides someone towards good, will receive the reward of the one who acts upon it." [Muslim]


The above shoulfd be the guide of muslims. And if an arab or a non arab decides to go into evil, going against the order of Allah and the way the prophet (AS) insttuted it, should we blame Islam or blame the deviant?

alhaji and his meaningless sermons again.

meaningless it is. especially when it is against you idea of islam.

@ sir olabowale- Don't mind the hypocrite

@ olabowale

May Allah reward you for your explanation. I guess it is meaningless to davidylan because he could not fault it.

davidylan:

Richie, would i be right in guessing you've not been invited back for another ramadan meal? 
I would love to have been in that meeting armed with a few facts and figures.

David,

I've been invited but that guy did not show up the last time. He was probably busy or something.

ayinba1:

@Richy

This topic was addressed at lenght by Olabowale. I will post the link if I find it.

@David

I am certain that he was reinvited, you wanna know why? read his posts. Maybe you can borrow a leaf!

@ayinba1,

Thanks!

@Olabowale,

Thank you very much for your detailed response. It makes sense to me and, I believe, to most literate persons. However, this all bring up some more questions:

1. Why do so many Muslims then interpret the Hadith Kill whoever changes his religion to mean Kill any person who converts out of Islam?

2. Is it a lack of understanding the Hadith?

3. Since people are losing their lives on this issue in many Muslim-dominated countries, have there been efforts to stop these unjust murders?

4. Has any public and direct criticisms been leveled against the following nations by the Islamic jurists or Grand Muftis who correctly interpret the said Hadith and hence are opposed to the unjust murders of people who chose to leave Islam?

i. Saudi Arabia
ii. Yemen
iii. Somalia
iv. Iran
v. Sudan
vi. Afghanistan
vii. Mauritania
viii. Comoros

5. If not, why the silence by those who are aware that people are unjustly being murdered?

6. How do we decipher "high treason (hirabah), which means declaring war against Islam"?

7. If someone decides to leave Islam and when asked why he/she answers by saying something like: "I honestly don't believe this is the true way". Isn't it possible that such a seemingly innocuous statement, though having the possible inference that Islam is the false way, could be interpreted as "high treason"?

8. Isn't the action of leaving Islam, by itself a rejection of the faith, open to being interpreted as "high treason" irrespective of the reasons given?


Thank you.

« #15 on: Today at 11:18:28 AM »

@Olabowale,
Thank you very much for your detailed response. It makes sense to me and, I believe, to most literate persons. However, this all bring up some more questions:
1. Why do so many Muslims then interpret the Hadith Kill whoever changes his religion to mean Kill any person who converts out of Islam?

The prophet (AS) says that the muslims will be divided into 73 groups, with only one group truly practicing Islam.

2. Is it a lack of understanding the Hadith?

Even people are taking the words of companions as ahadith. look at what they say that Aisha (RA) said about her beloved husband; that he hit her? How is that possible when his finger touch a person in a way that he took it to be "hard" he demanded that the person did exactly like that to him, so that the retaliation is in the life and not after. My reason for disagreeing with the "I was 6 years old" as they say that Aisha says of herself, at the time of marriage! Anything that is against Quran, must not agree with Muhammad (AS), hence heis ahadith cant support it, or go against Quran!

3. Since people are losing their lives on this issue in many Muslim-dominated countries, have there been efforts to stop these unjust murders?

I cant legislate Saudi or yemen or even my beloved country from my abode. I can even legislate others in my abode except that I legislate myself, first, reconciling me with Quran as applicable. When I do that, and everyone do it for themselves, playing their own Kulafah/kalifah, when this group is in the majority, then things will change, InshaAllah. We cant be playing good muslim, when we are rotten to the core punishing the weak and turning blind eye on the same behavior by the influencial.

4. Has any public and direct criticisms been leveled against the following nations by the Islamic jurists or Grand Muftis who correctly interpret the said Hadith and hence are opposed to the unjust murders of people who chose to leave Islam?
i. Saudi Arabia
ii. Yemen
iii. Somalia
iv. Iran
v. Sudan
vi. Afghanistan
vii. Mauritania
viii. Comoros

When the masses try to change their rulers, if the west (the powerful nations) are not with it, they undermine the efforts. But the same world police man nations will support evil behaviors or enact their own, when its for their benefits. I have listened to many sermons and have read many articles criticising many of these nations, but the nonMuslims do not have to know it, since we are not doing it for nonMuslims, because dirty laundary does not have to wash in the market square anyhow.

5. If not, why the silence by those who are aware that people are unjustly being murdered?

Many Imams and Scholars do talk about these things. Late Sheikh Kishk of Egypt was all about that; preaching against Arab leaders. Scholars are jailed and silenced in Egypt and everywhere else. Those who have the power and supported by the influencials do win, if only temporarily.

6. How do we decipher "high treason (hirabah), which means declaring war against Islam"?

What you need is in the Quran and the ahadith. If a person hates Islam and does not stand in the way of muslims and tose who want to become muslim, he is permitted and is there a reason to fight him, until he starts a "declaration of war"? And the muslim must have a Kalifah uniting the who of Muslims, so that we fight as one body. Do we have a kalifah now? Muslims need to begin working on self improvement first and things will improve naturally, as it did even with the prophet being there among the first generation.

7. If someone decides to leave Islam and when asked why he/she answers by saying something like: "I honestly don't believe this is the true way". Isn't it possible that such a seemingly innocuous statement, though having the possible inference that Islam is the false way, could be interpreted as "high treason"?

It should not. What you dont like you dont like. I cant eat Turkey for example. It does not mean that Turkey is not a good bird and those who eat will find me strange, but should that stand against my being a free to choose man? However when I go about petitioning a Turkey farm from having their usual customers, so that they can stay afloat, then I think they can go to court and sue me and how have a security to physically remove me off their ground before I ruin them!

8. Isn't the action of leaving Islam, by itself a rejection of the faith, open to being interpreted as "high treason" irrespective of the reasons given?

You reject something for all kinds of reasons. Rejecting Islam today does not mean that you can not accept it tomorrow. My older brother in Nigeria is a good example. Also nee bashua, Mama Dolapo in Lagos is another example. And those who converted out of any religion may just discovered some greater good, in the new religion or a lack of interest in the older religion.

People like me pray all the time that I do not end up and die in the wrong religion, on a wrong belief!

@olabowale,

Thanks for your contribution, it's much appreciated.

Salamu alaikum: pardon me for the intervension. I want to disagree with sir olabowale on the emphasy that Apostates should not be slain in a sharia law state but before i continue i will like an approval that thats what you (olabowale) said. Masalam

Wa aleykum salaam wa Rahmatullahi Taala wa Barackatuh. What I said is supported by Quran verses and Ahadith of the prophet (AS).

If you have a different opinion, please present the Quranic verses that support it and also the ahadith. Hopefully a position will be determined and all will be settled; Allah says in the Quran, those who listen to the "Words" and get the best meaning, the best course, the right course. I will read the posts for better understand of my position.

please go to www.answering-christianity.com's "treatment of apostates" or "kill apostates" to have a read of those who have the same opinion as I have. Will 2;256, and other verses of Quran allowing leaving islam, and coming back to it, this was repeated until Allah says He will not accept their coming back as a repentance any longer and the many verses that allows judgement to be reserved till the day of Judgement will have no place in the Quran then, and the ahadith will have no condition as it is enacted literally, so a hindu who comes into Islam will be killed or the Christian who left and became atheist is to be killed, too, by anyone who gets their hand on them, and in any of the condition, muslim or Islam does not have to be part of the equation.

I am waiting to hear from you, yaa habib.

Abuzola:

Salamu alaikum: pardon me for the intervension. I want to disagree with sir olabowale on the emphasy that Apostates should not be slain in a sharia law state but before i continue i will like an approval that thats what you (olabowale) said. Masalam

So, you can go ahead and make your points. Thanks.

Alhamdulillha for u Mr Olabowale, u u re one of the true believers.



when i saw d post i was unable to write to it because of its length,

for some time now, my system was bad and i could not fix it, eversince i find it hard to start writting lenghty messages in d cyber cafe, but when i read Mr Olabowale reply, i was so pleased because he was bleesed by Allah with knowlege and understanding, not just dat,he has passion and his ready for Ibadah,

i pray dat may u u be rewarded abundantly,

jazaka Allahu khair,



@poster, all mr Olab wrote was d correct answer to all ur questions, he explain all reasonable with knowledge from d Holy qur'an,


Allah said in d holy Qur'an,where there is any misunderstaning between u people, refer back to the Qur'an, if u could not find dat treated, refer back to the word of the prophet, , if the prophet did nt talk about it,then d knowleageable people in religion among u should dialougue abt it,


in situation where d Qur'an talked abt something and u find d hadeth contract it such, dat means such hadeeth is not authentic, its either a fabricated hadeeth of daeef, no word come out of d mouth of the prophet will contradict d saying of d Qur'an, so if u find any imam, group of people doing something in d name of islam, something which contradict d Qur'an or d saying of d prophet, then u should reject it,

now most people do things in d name of islam without understanding and I pary May Allah guide and protect us all,

@abuzola, i want to use this opputunity to say i respect ur view concerning this matter, but no where in d Holy Qur'an accept such killing, u need to read and understand better,

may Allah increase our understanding,

@bilms, are you also in the U.S ?

I will give my answers in full length when am free, bear with me

No, i am in Nigeria

Good !

I won't say much like a story teller, the hadith and Quran will be the talking drum and it will explain to you why apostates should be sweep away. Bear with me

bilms:

Alhamdulillha for u Mr Olabowale,  u u re one of the true believers.



when i saw d post i was unable to write to it because of its length,

for some time now, my system was bad and i could not fix it, eversince i find it hard to start writting lenghty messages in d cyber cafe,  but when i read Mr Olabowale reply,  i was so pleased because he was bleesed by Allah with knowlege and understanding,  not just dat,he has  passion and his ready for Ibadah,

i pray dat may u u be rewarded abundantly,

jazaka Allahu khair,



@poster, all mr Olab wrote was d correct answer to all your questions,  he explain all reasonable with knowledge from d Holy qur'an, 


Allah said in d holy Qur'an,where there is any misunderstaning between u people, refer back to the Qur'an, if u could not find dat treated, refer back to the word of the prophet, , if the prophet did nt talk about it,then d knowleageable people in religion among u should dialougue abt it,


in situation where d Qur'an talked abt something and u find d hadeth contract it such, dat means such hadeeth is not authentic, its either a fabricated hadeeth of daeef,  no word come out of d mouth of the prophet will contradict d saying of d Qur'an,  so if u find any imam, group of people doing something in d name of islam, something which contradict d Qur'an or d saying of d prophet, then u should reject it,

now most people do things in d name of islam without understanding and I pary May Allah guide and protect us all,

@abuzola,  i want to use this opputunity to say i respect your view concerning this matter, but no where in d Holy Qur'an accept such killing,  u need to read and understand better,

may Allah increase our understanding,

@bilms,

Thank you for your input.

If Muslims understood the Qu'ran better and interpreted it with the peace many claim is at the heart of Islam, the grossly negative view of Islam in many parts of the world, from Mumbai to Melbourne, and from Moscow to Memphis, would not be in place.

Extreme interpretations of any religious text can occur in any religion. Even in Christianity, untold evil have been committed in the name of God, particularly in the middle ages. Today, many Muslims are committing evil in Iran, Saudi-Arabia, Northern Nigeria, etc. in the name of Allah, because of extreme interpretations of the verses of the Qu'ran and the Hadith.

As long as these extreme interpretations are championed by key figures in Islam and by key Islamic nations like Saudi-Arabia and Iran, the rest of the world will always view Islam in a negative light!

This whole issue of killing apostates is one issue that will never make a non-Muslim trust any Muslim who holds such beliefs. The logic is very simple: If a Muslim X believes Muslim Y should be killed for converting to another religion, then it means that Muslim X so much despises other religions that he/she is willing to kill a fellow Muslim for changing his religion. One logical extension of this perverse practice must be to kill those that belong to other religions! That is, if Muslim X can kill Muslim Y for converting to another religion, why not just kill all non-Muslims Z to prevent other Muslims from being part of any religion outside Islam?

This kind of logic is totally unacceptable and non-Muslims are in order to be suspicious of any and all Muslims who hold such perverse, barbaric, macabre, savage and inhuman views!

Once again, thank you for your input.

Abuzola:

Good !

I won't say much like a story teller, the hadith and Quran will be the talking drum and it will explain to you why apostates should be sweep away. Bear with me

No problem.

@richy, my quotation won't do you any good, neither will it benefit you since you are stick to ur opine. This is the very reason why i ask bilm if he was in U.S, you people try to fashion Islam by concealing the truth so that the people you live with i.e the unbelievers won't hate you and ur religion. The christians and jews did exactly like this and they followed their desire together they went astray til today,

i beg ur pardon, don't mention saudi arabia as misguided, by God they will never be misguided, in an authentic hadith the Prophet said if you have doubt about the doing or practise of things in future in jurispundence etc then imitate Makkah and madinah reffering to saudi arabia. Let me stop here. Don't let your vain desire engross you. Masalam

Abuzola if a person wants to find Islam, I advise him to come to America from his so called "Muslim enviroment". And anyone wishes not to find misguidance, I will advise that he stays far away from America.

It is in America that I became a good muslim, InshaAllah a Mumin. I know many hausas, from nigeria and others, fulanis from others, etc and all african tribes, each of them became better Muslim almost Mumin in America. We in America do not practice Bidah and we do not have traditional Islam, our Islam is simply Quran and Sunnah and we are not shy to make Ahdan, or preach about the evils of America, and also wish her well, for before Taif became Madina, it was exactly like America. And Makka was worse than America until Fatih Makka.

Muslims in America have more sunnah per percentage than Muslims in Arabia Saudia. We wear full beard while most of the Royal family members wear only Goatie and unfortunately, the face of Islam in Nigeria; South and North, all the place is not something to be happy about. We do not perform Zina in America because we are watchdogs for one another, and we do not call ven the Kufar Ashewo, we dont drink alcohol and we try not to go into Riba.

Insult America if you will, but America has been good for me and my Islam. If I were in Nigeria, I would be dumb as a dumbell, and thinking that I am practicing Islam, yet am either a Tarikha or something. My Tarikha is not Tijani or Ahmadiyyah by Muhammad (AS), with his Sahaba, Tibi In, and tabi tabi In. We do not discriminate in America and no one single group thinks its an authority of islam; you will not see a muslim in America not trying to Improve, but then as much as we are a minority, Allah has blessed us with America and has blessed America by us!

@Abuzola: And I love to see the Chapter and verse and ahadith of your PROOF. Do it because it will a matter of impacting knowledge on all of us.

@olabowale- are you talking of the america i know and see on Tv is better than saudi ? Haba you know thats not true, saudi arabia is incompatible, how can a sharia state be better than non sharia, where you see unclothedness, misguided and do acts according to their desire. Saudi arabia is an ahlu sunnah doctrine. You can find out more on who are ahlu sunnah, the Quran and hadith is what they follow and anything other than that is bidiah. You can't sit in america and say you are better than saudian thats not true, do your wife cover her body from head to toe i.e nikaf, do your trouser reach the ankle, is ur wife accompanied by a muharam when she goes out, do ydo do do do as many as possible