@Thiefofhearts

All those things you described which attract higher pay all count as talent.

and um demand IS high for Yoruba movies by Yorubas or people who understand the language. No one asked Igbo producers to give up their movies in favor for English. If anything there should be Yoruba, Ibo AND English movies. You might argue against it but is is TRUE that Nollywood English movies are big because of English and , that's why they are popular outside of the country. Many Caribbean people watch them because they are speaking English, obviously they can't watch Yoruba movies because they don't understand the language. There's also the fact that these English Nolly people have a big following, in and outside of Nigeria because of the fact that they're in English movies that everyone can enjoy and not just people of certain tribes.

I asked you not to go to this argument because it is self defeating. Nollywood started off as Igbo movies just like these Yoruba movies, they had better actors, storylines and everything that comes with good movies. There was expansionary pressure to start producing the movies in English so as to satisfy the growing audience and that is what led us to Nollywood. Nollywood due to it's higher pay, attracts better talent both from actors, screenwriters, directors and etcetera. Why will they be paying more for inferior talent? That just does not make sense.

The queston then is: Why didn't the expansionary pressures that forced all these Igbo movies to expand to what we now know as Nollywood not push the Yoruba movies to expand seeing how they're better and have have been here before the Igbo movies?, The movies just are not good enough is the only right answer. End of Story!

To think that saying Yoruba movies are better than english nollywood means Yoruba movies are better than Ibo movies is very presumptuous.

Haven't you been following? Soneone already argued that Yoruba movie actors who are better are not in Nollywood because Nollywood producers do not want to hire them. That doesn't make sense, the only reason why they won't hire you is because you're not good enough. Pete Edochie, Omotola Jalade, Genevieve Nnaji, Richard Mofe Damijo, Bob Manuel Udokwu, Segun Arinze, Emeka Ike, Kanayo O. Kanayo, Nkem Owoh, there aren't many better than those.

and if I dont feel like ending the story en ko?

They started out as Ibo movies, why couldnt they have the Ibo movies STAY as Ibo movies then also have English movies? BOLLYWOOD will NEVER sell out like that and people still love them dont they? You dont see them making their cast speak English by force and do western garbage, not all of them anyway yet they will continue to be ahead of Nollywood til the end of time. Yoruba movies didnt give in to these pressures because they didnt feel like selling out just to cater to others. They will always have their loyal fans and that's all that matters. A good studio puts quality over quantity. Yoruba movies has quality. English Nolly has quantity.

They pay them more cos the audience demand more because of English. That is all. Has nothing to do with them having talent. It's the fact that they speak English and have fans from other countries due to the fact that they speak English. There's nothing else to it.

Another Hollywood example, just because Titanic made a billion in the box office doesnt make it a better movie than City Of God or Schindler's list. The latter 2 made less yet are way better movies. The latter two won awards and Titanic didnt. I personally praise movies that have quality, whether they sell a shitload doesnt mean anything to me, it's all about quality.

Soneone already argued that Yoruba movie actors who are better are not in Nollywood because Nollywood producers do not want to hire them

Um it's because of  so called English issues. Apparently they want people who will speak English with fake phonetics. Then there's also the segregation in Nollywood. I was very offended by the movie "My Mother, My Marriage", the movie was about an Ibo guy who wanted to marry a Yoruba girl and the guy's parents had a problem with it. The girl and her family werent even Yoruba and the few times they spoke Yoruba to give it a "real feel" they sounded like idiots. It made me sick. It's like are you saying you can't get some Yoruba actors/actresses to play the part or something? again segregation. Dont try and deny the "hating" that happens in the industry.

BTW Nkem Owoh might as well be Baba Suwe or Ogogo.

Nkem Owoh is great, don't insult a Nollywood legend. Right from his Igbo speaking drunken ways in Ikuku, he has been able to define himself in many roles. He isn't just a comedian, he's a great actor.

They pay them more because the audience demand more because of English. That is all. Has nothing to do with them having talent. It's the fact that they speak English and have fans from other countries due to the fact that they speak English. There's nothing else to it.

Are you really trying to tell me all these Yoruba movie actors don't know how to speak English? , They pay people from all ethnic groups in Nigeria more in Nollywood because they are better actors/actresses. That's the only credible way to reason it out, assuming Yoruba movies have better actors/actresses, they should be able to move to Nollywood and make more money. Evidence shows they're not doing that which leads to only 1 conlusion, they're not as good.

He'll always be typecast as a comedian/comic relief however.

Donzman


[b]i am surpriced nobody has been able to correct some of your wrong history. who told you nollywood started with ibo films. i guess you are ibo and since you are used to just watching ibo films, you came to this conclusion. before there was living in bondage, yoruba films have always existed. i remember when i was much younger, there used to be baba sala, herbert ogunde, duro ladipo, ade love and ogunmola. go and do your research well before feeding the people on this forum with your wrong information. the few i mentioned produced great plays into stage works and films that used to be shown in cinema houses. even  professors like ola rotimi, wole soyinka etc,  were some of the people into a lot of these play theatres that formed the background of these great artists we have today.

as to the second issue you have been raising, yeah, you are right, english movies pay better. i think this is probably because they have a larger audience than the yoruba ones who still prefer to do their films in their mother tougue. also i learnt, a lot of yoruba actors/actress are also producers unlike the english ones. so what they do is to star in one another film in exchange instead of collecting physical money. so if you quantify it this way, the english actors aren't really earning better. afterall in the olden days, trade by barter was a very good biz practise too.

thirdly, you made mentioned of segun arinze, omotola, rmd , noah as not ibos and yet they still get featured in films. if you are really fair in your reasoning, can't you count the no of non-ibos that are used in english movies? if you do they are really very very few i tell you. the few that get to be used probably have to compromise so many things to get to be featured, but i know the proportion of the other tribes of naija featured is really little.

you also claimed yoruba actors are not used because they can't speak english. it seems you have forgotten that yoruba is about the most learned of all the tribes in naija. at least this fact people say often while the ibos are better off in commerce. look at the notable playwrites, more are yoruba. a lot of people into yoruba movies speak flawless english. is it bukki ajayi, ayo mogaji, lere paimo, remi abiola, toun oni, sola sobowale etc and not to even make mention of the present young actors in the yoruba movie geare who are not just degree holders, but some have their masters as well that you want compete with their diction and flawless queen's english. i bet the tribalist didn't know how good sola was for instance until she was featured in wale adenuga's productions.[/b]

Donzman:Ramsey Nouah Yoruba?, Since when?

Ramsey's mum is yoruba,from Owo,Ondo State, dad is Isreali(I don't think son and dad ever met though),born and bred in Lag,speaks Yoruba fluently.

Ramsey's mum is yoruba,from Owo,Ondo State, dad is Isreali(I don't think son and dad ever met though),born and bred in Lag,speaks Yoruba fluently.

His mum is Yoruba. He was born and bred in Yorubaland. He speaks Yoruba fluently. How is he not Yoruba?

He's half Isreali/half Yoruba. Where I come from, you take on your father's family line, I'm sure it's the same thing with the Yorubas. You can hardly call Lagos Yorubaland now, there are as many other groups as there are Yoruba people. Most of the markets from Alaba to Lagos Island are run by Igbos.

i am surpriced nobody has been able to correct some of your wrong history. who told you nollywood started with ibo films. i guess you are ibo and since you are used to just watching ibo films, you came to this conclusion. before there was living in bondage, yoruba films have always existed. i remember when i was much younger, there used to be baba sala, herbert ogunde, duro ladipo, ade love and ogunmola. go and do your research well before feeding the people on this forum with your wrong information. the few i mentioned produced great plays into stage works and films that used to be shown in cinema houses. even  professors like ola rotimi, wole soyinka etc,  were some of the people into a lot of these play theatres that formed the background of these great artists we have today.

Thanks for proving my point. Yoruba films were there before Igbo films but Yorubas are not the ones that transformed into Nollywood. Producers of Igbo films/actors/directors were the ones who set the foundation of what we call Nollywood today. To repeat myself again, when they came out, there was high demand for their movies(as opposed to the forever mediocre acting in Yoruba movies) which made them transform to English to satisfy their growing customer base. Why didn't the same thing happen to the Yoruba movies?, They're not that good, end of story.

you also claimed yoruba actors are not used because they can't speak english. it seems you have forgotten that yoruba is about the most learned of all the tribes in naija. at least this fact people say often while the ibos are better off in commerce.

Read before you speak, I never said that so I won't bother replying. Yorubas can speak English but their movie industry did not expand the way the Igbo's did. Why? , Simple, their acting/storyline are not as good. You're just looking for a tribalist where there isn't any, learn to read my friend. Probably why you are not migrating to Nollywood, they want to talk and talk without looking at the script for a minute.

I keep repeating myself over and over again, before you reply to Donzman make sure you read properly because I'm beginning to get pissed off.

i think this is probably because they have a larger audience than the yoruba ones who still prefer to do their films in their mother tougue.

Now ask yourself for a minute, don't talk, just ask yourself, Why did Igbo movies appeal to a higher audience which led it to transform into Nollywood and the Yorubas didn't?, You have your answer there.

He's half Isreali/half Yoruba. Where I come from, you take on your father's family line, I'm sure it's the same thing with the Yorubas.

Whee I come from, we would say Ramsey Nouah is half-Isreali and half Yoruba. "Half caste" as some would say.

Lol, I think it's funny that Donzman is calling the acting in Yoruba films mediocre and at the same time praising Nolly films.

Dude point remains that you shouldnt blame us that Ibo producers decided to sell out for money. Instead of them to divide into English AND traditional Ibo films, they decided to go all out English. Pathetic.

Watch a few French or Spanish movies. one of the best kind of movies you'll ever find, but they will never really be big because , they will never start having them speak English just to cater to others. They have their pride. If people are too damn stupid to read subtitles that is their own problem but they refuse to all of a sudden throw away their culture for more money.

I don't know where you get the idea that Yoruba movies arent high in demand, As long WE the Yorubas demand for them, that is ALL that matters, so because they didnt decide to ignore their loyal fan base to make more money by going the English route that means "it's because they are not good"?, get over yourself. Again quality over quantity.
I just put in a Yoruba production of Macbeth for my grandmother to watch. Excellent movie, it's subtitled, you should check it out once you get over your prejudices. How many Nolly people can actually pull off a Shakespare play? I can tell you, not many.

I'm not going to deny that the actors you listed are good. There ARE good actors in English Nollywood while some of them are just there to look pretty and throw fake phonetics in your face. I personally love Kanayo, Whenever my parents go home they always come back with about 125 movies mixed of Nolly English and Yoruba. My dad always tries to find either a movie with Kanayo or Edochie. They are both great actors. However the script is usually the same old cliched garbage. They really need to come up with better stories for these people.

Some of them truly do have talent but they deserve better scripts.

You have no point, they keep their traditional Igbo fanbase and expanded further. If you get DSTV in Nigeria, you're probably getting African Magic. It's continent wide, these movies are viewed all over Africa, get a grip, staying small benefits no one. If that Yoruba actress was paid good money, she probably wouldn't have swallowed 92 wraps.

My point is better than yours. You are the one not making any sense whatsoever.

As for the drug charge, stop being ignorant. How are you so sure English Nolly people don't do the same.
Not everyone gets caught

You are being obstinate on purpose and refuse to see reasoning. We are NOT talking about better pay. We are talking about better quality of movies. Again better pay doesnt mean better talent. You can continue to dwell on the island of denial all you want. I hope it's fun over there.

lol@ at staying small benefits no one, why don't you tell that to Bollywood that will continue to destroy Nollywood until the world ends. You don't see them expanding to English, do you? That's because they actually care about their core audience and perserving their culture instead of being greedy sellouts

You live in Canada. I assume you've heard of "Jackass" the MTV show which has now been made into 2 movies. A STUPID show/movies based on a bunch of morons playing pranks on people and themselves. Same with Borat. That movie has made over 10 million. Sold more than V For Vendetta which is a better movie with better actors with a good message but since it sold less, in your own twisted world, that makes Jackass/Borat the better movie. right?

.

I'm telling you that better movies receive better pay. Where on this planet do rational human beings pay more for less quality? It does not make sense. You're being highly irrational, if these actors/actresses were as good as you claim, they can easily switch to doing Nollywood movies where they'll be paid more. That is what any rational person will do but they're not doing that. Either they're irrational (which I doubt) or they're just not as good. It's really that simple, I don't know why it's difficult to understand.

Is there something preventing these quality Yoruba actors from acting in Nollywood movies? They do this for a living, higher pay is there to sieve out the wheat from the chaff. We both know who the wheat is and who the chaff is. Chaff earns lower pay, wheat earns higher pay on average and it's that simple., You don't get it, on average Nollywood actors/actresses are better than those in Yoruba movies. There are outliers here and there where chaff gets in with the wheat but when it's all said and done, wheat is wheat and chaff is chaff.

I'm using rationality to argue here, your argument is highly irrational. Why will I be better than you but get stuck with lower wages?We all look to receive the greatest benefit from the talents at our disposal, Do any of those actors/actresses look like Jesus Christ to you?

if these actors/actresses were as good as you claim, they can easily switch to doing Nollywood movies where they'll be paid more.

Some of them do. I assume you heard of Shola Sobowale? She's mainly in Yoruba movies but she dabbles in English Nolly from time to time. Same with Joke Silva and a few others

Some of the others dont care to join the masses in Nollywood. Not everyone is obsessed with money. Alot of them are pretty comfortable or have other jobs or cos they dont speak English that well. Why should that bother you? They can do whatever they want.

BTW alot of "Nolly" people appear in Yoruba movies. I have a few Yoruba movies with Zach Orji, Sandra Achums, Liz Benson, Clarion, etc. If Yoruba movies are so "horrible" why would these people "degrade" themselves to be part of these movies?

I'm telling you that better movies receive better pay. Where on this planet do rational human beings pay more for less quality?

That was the point I was trying to make with the Jackass/Borat example if you bothered to read it. I'd appreciate if you answer the question I asked in that example btw.

People pay for Borat and co. for their entertaining qualities. Why else?

It might be entertaining but it doesnt make them "good" movies. That is my point. These movies arent good but they make more money than some that are actually great and filled with talent. Can you sincerely say you don't see where I'm going with this?

I don't find dumb movies entertaining myself. Any retard can do what is done in those Jackass/Borat movies.

Who's to say what makes a good movie?, Fact or fiction, thiefofhearts, do good movies on average sell more than bad movies?

Do good actors on average earn more than bad actors?, The end!

Donzman:

Who's to say what makes a good movie?, Fact or fiction, thiefofhearts, do good movies on average sell more than bad movies?

Do good actors on average earn more than bad actors?, The end!

I say what makes a good movie. I dont watch a movie based on other people's perference. I have a mind of my own. I think Titanic is garbage yet it made a lot of money.

as for your second question, unfortunately bad actors tend to make more. Arnold Schwenegger or whatever that idiot's name is, bad actor yet he makes alot of money. I can name alot of great actors that dont make too much cos they rather stay with quality movies of independent studios than big budgetted crap movies.

Pulp Fiction was a flop in the box office when it came in 1994, yet now it's a cult classic admired by billions and was nominated for an award and Tarantino is now known as one of the best directors of the decade. All this and PF didnt even sell that much in the beginning.

*sighs* Please tell me you understand now.

Donzman

[b]you appear like someone so rigid in your line of reasoning, so i won't bother convicing you, but rather i would want my points to further enlighten the people you have decided to blinden with your fables.

you have decided to arrongantly attribute the term nollywood to the english movies makers. i guess nollywood refers to the film industry in naija as a whole both yoruba and english.

also, you are yet to say where you got your fact that yoruba movies makers make less money than their english conterpacts, i think i have explained the why to you about most yoruba actors/actresses also going into production. it is a kind of trade by barter kind of thing. and i don't think it terms of standard of living, the yoruba actors are paupers in comparison to those acting the english ones. wunmi's is an exception. anybody among them could have been wunmi. she was just unfortunate to be the only one caught.

and about ramsey being a yoruba man, i don't how that should bother you. whether he is supposed to claim to be an istraeli or not should not bother you. at least when they are grouping his tribe on naija basis, he is a yoruba guy. the mum is yoruba. and i am sure you know caroline ekanem and shan george for instance claim to be nigerians and from calabar to be specific(the land of their mum) since they don't even know who their fathers are though they are british. i wonder why u should raise so much highbrown over ramsey's. it seems you have issues with anything yoruba, i think that is where your problem lies![/b]

Donzman is missing the point.

The fact here is that the few Yoruba actors and actresses we have in Nollywood, are far better than their Igbo counterparts.  Period!

abi no be so Orikinla talk?

ThiefOfHearts:

Arnold Schwenegger or whatever that idiot's name is, bad actor yet he makes alot of money.

huh?  do you know who arnold schwarzennegger is at all?  I greatly believe you're mistaking that name for someone else!

What are you going on about?

I know who he is and I know he's a mediocre actor. Only reason why he's big is cos of mindless action movies.
Put that slowpoke in a decent movie and see if he could act himself out of a paper bag.

How many of his films have you watched really?  Have you watched "Jingle all the way"?  At least, that one is not totally an action movie, though there were little fights here and there, no guns, no killings, mostly comedy, and he was great in that movie.

I won't bother arguing with you on that anyway.  Everyone's got his preferences.  To me, he's a very wonderful actor.

goodguy:

Donzman is missing the point.

The fact here is that the few Yoruba actors and actresses we have in Nollywood, are far better than their Igbo counterparts.  Period!

abi no be so Orikinla talk?

Bullsh!t!

Yeah I know. You're welcome.

Lol @ Jingle All The Way, I can see your taste now so you're right there's no point in arguing with you about that.

ronkebaby:

. it seems you have issues with anything yoruba, i think that is where your problem lies![/b]

Unfortunately from his posts, you might be right.

Seun,i was actually trying to correct Donzman's earlier post where he said Ramsey isn't yoruba, i guess i didn't quote him well.

Typical Nigeria, why does it always has to be Igbo movies are better or Yoruba movies are better. Why can't Nigerian movie Producers and Directors come together and improve the quality of movies coming out of Nigeria.

I've watched a few Nigerian movies on my spear time and they horrible the pic and sound are still in Analog format I mean technology from the 70's. I wish folks would watch movies from other parts of Africa and see the diff.

I don't particularly watch Yoruba or Nollywood movies for that matter.
But I do know that more money are paid to the Nollywood actors cos
they have more viewership. Only the Yoruba understanding viewers
watch Yoruba movies while every other tribes including the Yoruba's
watch Nollywood movies. I think i personally respect Yoruba actors
like Papiluwe, Oga bello and a couple of others like Baba Suwe.
But all in all the local dialect movies are better than Nollywood movies
cos they are more inspirational,educating and entertaining. I believe the
this thread is about local dialects movies are better than Nollywood movies
and not just Yoruba movies.

osegwu:

I\But all in all the local dialect movies are better than Nollywood movies
because they are more inspirational,educating and entertaining. I believe the
this thread is about local dialects movies are better than Nollywood movies
and not just Yoruba movies.

Exactly. This is all that Ive been trying to say for two pages. The only reason they are paid more if cos of English language leading to more viewership. We all know majority of those movies are cliched and stupid but we just watch them for watching sake.

and like ive said before, Ibo producers really need to go back to making local Ibo movies, yea they can continue with the whole English Nolly thing but they should also keep their pride with the Ibo ones as well.