Fellow Christians, this question recently came into my mind. If Adam and Eve had not eaten of the Tree of Knowledge, would we have had the abililty to think independently or would we have been beings designed to be uncivilised and unaware of it? Remember, the fruit opened their eyes, and they realised they were naked......

Is this fruit the major cause of the freewill we possess?

Cc KingEbukaNaija winner01 malvisguy212 Scholar8200

Man has always had the choice of freewill, and that is why the first humans were given instructions in the first place, to instill a sense of order. This same free will allowed Eve to choose to pluck a fruit and Adam in his own freewill chose to eat it.

The only role the tree had to play is that once eaten it brought about conscience. Why? Because the moment one was to eat it, they would disobey God. Nobody needed to tell Adam and Eve that they had disobeyed. The moment they ate it, their conscience was awoken. Perhaps not directly by the fruit itself, but in consequence of eating it. They hid themselves without being told to. The first feeling of guilt ever recorded. The consequence of sin.

The fruit did not give freewill, it merely opened man up
to wrongdoinging and thus a conscience was awoken.

Prior to eating it, a conscience was not needed, because it was just obedience to every instruction from God. But once eaten with freewill it burdened Adam and Eve. Most people tend to blame Eve, however Adam had the same measure of freewill every other creation. Conscience is the direct result of eating the fruit. Freewill is ingrained in creation.

Tah..


if God did not want them to eat it, it shouldn't be in d garden in d first place.

yomi007k:
Tah..


if God did not want them to eat it, it shouldn't be in d garden in d first place.

That's where freewill comes in.

You cannot say that knives should not be made because some choose to murder with them. Everything is there for a purpose. But the choice on how to use them lies on individuals.

The purpose Of God creation is to love God and worship Him, in this kind of Love, God want that the choice to Love Him should be from your own WILL, not something you are program to do. Without free will to choose,
Adam and Eve would have been mere puppets. True love always requires choice. God wanted Adam and Eve to choose to love and trust Him. The only way to give this choice would have been to command something that was not allowed. The choice is very simple, They were only commanded not to eat from one tree out of the MANY.

Since everything God planted in the garden was Good, the natural choice of something to choose from would be the knowledge of evil. If you read closely, you will notice that even if Adam and Eve did not eat the fruit, they will still gain knowledge of Good and evil through the instruction given by God, for example, how did eve came to know that by eating from the tree, they are disobeying God ? And they will die ?

Tellemall:


That's where freewill comes in.

You cannot say that knives should not be made because some choose to murder with them. Everything is there for a purpose. But the choice on how to use them lies on individuals.

U put a 2yr old child in a room with loads of highly dangerous livewires on one side and loads of baby toys on the oda side..
Telling the innocent child not to go near the side with d livewires..then u leave the room and go watch from the window(knowing fully well the child is 99.9% bound to go near the wires, either out of curiosity or ignorance).

Expectedly, The child gets super-electrocuted by the wires thereafter, only for u to get saddened and angry..knowing it's bound to apun.

------------------

Bros..is that ur definition of LOVE?

Is that your own Expression of FREEWILL?

Tellemall:
Man has always had the choice of freewill, and that is why the first humans were given instructions in the first place, to instill a sense of order. This same free will allowed Eve to choose to pluck a fruit and Adam in his own freewill chose to eat it.

The only role the tree had to play is that once eaten it brought about conscience. Why? Because the moment one was to eat it, they would disobey God. Nobody needed to tell Adam and Eve that they had disobeyed. The moment they ate it, their conscience was awoken. Perhaps not directly by the fruit itself, but in consequence of eating it. They hid themselves without being told to. The first feeling of guilt ever recorded. The consequence of sin.

The fruit did not give freewill, it merely opened man up
to wrongdoinging and thus a conscience was awoken.

Prior to eating it, a conscience was not needed, because it was just obedience to every instruction from God. But once eaten with freewill it burdened Adam and Eve. Most people tend to blame Eve, however Adam had the same measure of freewill every other creation. Conscience is the direct result of eating the fruit. Freewill is ingrained in creation.

U put a 2yr old child in a room with loads of highly dangerous livewires on one side and loads of baby toys on the oda side..
Telling the innocent child not to go near the side with d livewires..then u leave the room and go watch from the window(knowing fully well the child is 99.9% bound to go near the wires, either out of curiosity or ignorance).

Expectedly, The child gets super-electrocuted by the wires thereafter, only for u to get saddened and angry..knowing it's bound to apun.

------------------

Bros..is that ur definition of LOVE?

Is that your own Expression of FREEWILL?

-----------------
Am not an atheist, but does giving the power of choice to an ignorant person depict FREEWILL?

U and I know that someone without the knowledge of Good and evil is 100% ignorant..
So, Why give such man the dangerous power of CHOICE, knowing fully well that they wud err?
Wud u gv a non-certified doctor urself to treat and toy with ur life to express FREEWILL on the doctor's part?
-----------
Bro..let's leave dis debate...it's an endless one...
It's berra we argue in person and save our Fingers and phone/laptop keypads some infinite series of punches

lordnicklaus:
Fellow Christians, this question recently came into my mind. If Adam and Eve had not eaten of the Tree of Knowledge, would we have had the abililty to think independently or would we have been beings designed to be uncivilised and unaware of it? Remember, the fruit opened their eyes, and they realised they were naked......

Is this fruit the major cause of the freewill we possess?

Cc KingEbukaNaija winner01 malvisguy212 Scholar8200

FREEWILL is what was given unto man, after the knowledge of good and evil was introduced upon eating the fabulous fruit..but what was given to man before this wasn't FREEWILL.
Christianity is yet to define what it is, given unto man b4 eating the fruit...it's neither Freewill nor Love.
There was a Reason God put that tree in that Garden, KNOWING FULLY WELL that Adam and Eve would eat of it, Yet. Commanded them not to.
More like Man has been positioned To fail sinx he was created, only to take the blame afterwards.

Tellemall:


That's where freewill comes in.

You cannot say that knives should not be made because some choose to murder with them. Everything is there for a purpose. But the choice on how to use them lies on individuals.

Not logical

where did lucifer get his freewill from?

lordnicklaus:
Fellow Christians, this question recently came into my mind. If Adam and Eve had not eaten of the Tree of Knowledge, would we have had the abililty to think independently or would we have been beings designed to be uncivilised and unaware of it? Remember, the fruit opened their eyes, and they realised they were naked......

Is this fruit the major cause of the freewill we possess?

Cc KingEbukaNaija winner01 malvisguy212 Scholar8200

They possessed freewill and that is why the options were placed before them.

lordnicklaus:
Fellow Christians, this question recently came into my mind. If Adam and Eve had not eaten of the Tree of Knowledge, would we have had the abililty to think independently or would we have been beings designed to be uncivilised and unaware of it? Remember, the fruit opened their eyes, and they realised they were naked......

Is this fruit the major cause of the freewill we possess?

Cc KingEbukaNaija winner01 malvisguy212 Scholar8200

Freewill is the ability to make choices . They made their choice to eat the fruit - that's freewill

..

Tellemall:
Man has always had the choice of freewill, and that is why the first humans were given instructions in the first place, to instill a sense of order. This same free will allowed Eve to choose to pluck a fruit and Adam in his own freewill chose to eat it.

The only role the tree had to play is that once eaten it brought about conscience. Why? Because the moment one was to eat it, they would disobey God. Nobody needed to tell Adam and Eve that they had disobeyed. The moment they ate it, their conscience was awoken. Perhaps not directly by the fruit itself, but in consequence of eating it. They hid themselves without being told to. The first feeling of guilt ever recorded. The consequence of sin.

The fruit did not give freewill, it merely opened man up
to wrongdoinging and thus a conscience was awoken.

Prior to eating it, a conscience was not needed, because it was just obedience to every instruction from God . But once eaten with freewill it burdened Adam and Eve. Most people tend to blame Eve, however Adam had the same measure of freewill every other creation. Conscience is the direct result of eating the fruit. Freewill is ingrained in creation.

Is'nt the bolded statement a contradiction? Prior to eating the fruit, adam and Eve was just in obedience to every instruction from God. That means they were merely robots before eating the fruit. What you are saying is that the only Freewill God granted them is to choose between eating the fruit or not, other than that, they were incapable of disobeying God.

To me the only error Adam and Eve made was eating the Fruit of the tree of Knowledge first, if they had eating the fruit from the tree of life, they would have been immortal. That means God would not have the power to threaten them anymore, they could then go and eat from the fruit of the tree of Knowledge without God being in a position to do anything.

Tellemall:
Man has always had the choice of freewill, and that is why the first humans were given instructions in the first place, to instill a sense of order. This same free will allowed Eve to choose to pluck a fruit and Adam in his own freewill chose to eat it.

The only role the tree had to play is that once eaten it brought about conscience. Why? Because the moment one was to eat it, they would disobey God. Nobody needed to tell Adam and Eve that they had disobeyed. The moment they ate it, their conscience was awoken. Perhaps not directly by the fruit itself, but in consequence of eating it. They hid themselves without being told to. The first feeling of guilt ever recorded. The consequence of sin.

The fruit did not give freewill, it merely opened man up
to wrongdoinging and thus a conscience was awoken.

Prior to eating it, a conscience was not needed, because it was just obedience to every instruction from God. But once eaten with freewill it burdened Adam and Eve. Most people tend to blame Eve, however Adam had the same measure of freewill every other creation. Conscience is the direct result of eating the fruit. Freewill is ingrained in creation.

You made a nice point there, but I would think that your statement that conscience was awoken is more correct than saying that the disobedience brought about a conscience. Don't you think that God must have created then with a conscience, but this conscience came into play when they erred? In other words, I don't think that conscience is a direct result of the sin.

JMAN05:


You made a nice point there, but I would think that your statement that conscience was awoken is more correct than saying that the disobedience brought about a conscience. Don't you think that God must have created then with a conscience, but this conscience came into play when they erred? In other words, I don't think that conscience is a direct result of the sin.

Perhaps I didn't state it clearly or you didn't understand me, but we are saying the same thing.

The guilt shows the awakened conscience of Eve and her husband.

lordnicklaus:
Fellow Christians, this question recently came into my mind. If Adam and Eve had not eaten of the Tree of Knowledge, would we have had the abililty to think independently or would we have been beings designed to be uncivilised and unaware of it? Remember, the fruit opened their eyes, and they realised they were naked......

Is this fruit the major cause of the freewill we possess?

Cc KingEbukaNaija winner01 malvisguy212 Scholar8200

It's a tree of discernment. It gives man ability to judge right and wrong . The tree was not an evil tree. It was meant for man to eat . But they eat it prematurely

Genesis 3:5
For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.

Genesis 3:22
And the Lord God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:

Hebrews 5:14
But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.

0ubenji:

U put a 2yr old child in a room with loads of highly dangerous livewires on one side and loads of baby toys on the oda side..
Telling the innocent child not to go near the side with d livewires..then u leave the room and go watch from the window(knowing fully well the child is 99.9% bound to go near the wires, either out of curiosity or ignorance).

Expectedly, The child gets super-electrocuted by the wires thereafter, only for u to get saddened and angry..knowing it's bound to apun.

------------------

Bros..is that ur definition of LOVE?

Is that your own Expression of FREEWILL?

Adam was not a 2 year old. Neither was Eve.

Nobody can equate childish innocence with decisions made by an older and more responsible person, so halt your analogous comparison.

If you wish to delve into the role of age and Christian responsibility, research the Age of Accountability in Christianity.

I'm surprised some people can reason your explosive talk and somehow link that to freewill and love.

wirinet:


Is'nt the bolded statement a contradiction? Prior to eating the fruit, adam and Eve was just in obedience to every instruction from God. That means they were merely robots before eating the fruit. What you are saying is that the only Freewill God granted them is to choose between eating the fruit or not, other than that, they were incapable of disobeying God.

To me the only error Adam and Eve made was eating the Fruit of the tree of Knowledge first, if they had eating the fruit from the tree of life, they would have been immortal. That means God would not have the power to threaten them anymore, they could then go and eat from the fruit of the tree of Knowledge without God being in a position to do anything.

I do not believe you understand what I was saying. Nowhere did I state that they were robots. The thought to eat the fruit simply had never crossed their minds. Not until, with the freewill bestowed on her like every other human, Eve decided she would like to eat the fruit.

petra1:


It's a tree of discernment. It gives man ability to judge right and wrong . The tree was not an evil tree. It was meant for man to eat . But they eat it prematurely

I like this idea.

Tellemall:
Man has always had the choice of freewill, and that is why the first humans were given instructions in the first place, to instill a sense of order. This same free will allowed Eve to choose to pluck a fruit and Adam in his own freewill chose to eat it.

The only role the tree had to play is that once eaten it brought about conscience. Why? Because the moment one was to eat it, they would disobey God. Nobody needed to tell Adam and Eve that they had disobeyed. The moment they ate it, their conscience was awoken. Perhaps not directly by the fruit itself, but in consequence of eating it. They hid themselves without being told to. The first feeling of guilt ever recorded. The consequence of sin.

The fruit did not give freewill, it merely opened man up
to wrongdoinging and thus a conscience was awoken.

Prior to eating it, a conscience was not needed, because it was just obedience to every instruction from God. But once eaten with freewill it burdened Adam and Eve. Most people tend to blame Eve, however Adam had the same measure of freewill every other creation. Conscience is the direct result of eating the fruit. Freewill is ingrained in creation.

This guy has said it. Free will was there tree or not tree. The tree was given merely for Adam and Even to exercise their free will. And, so they did. And here we are.

Xiadnat:


This guy has said it. Free will was there tree or not tree. The tree was given merely for Adam and Even to exercise their free will. And, so they did. And here we are.

Yes and here we are crying over spilled milk..but not to worry, Yashua is come to set things straight

Barakha Xiadnat

All these long arguments over people that do not or did not even exist...smh, some people get time sha

Tellemall:


Adam was not a 2 year old. Neither was Eve.

Nobody can equate childish innocence with decisions made by an older and more responsible person, so halt your analogous comparison.

If you wish to delve into the role of age and Christian responsibility, research the Age of Accountability in Christianity.

I'm surprised some people can reason your explosive talk and somehow link that to freewill and love.

Someone who's naked And doesn't know he is, is ur definition of "older and more responsible?".
Someone without the knowledge of good and evil is ur Definition of "older and more responsible?"..
What Difference is their ignorant state from that of a 2yr old?..
The God who created them KNOWING THEY WUD FAIL THE TEST, yet stil positioned them at the risk of doin so OR the ones he created without any experience whatsoever and without the knowledge of anythin contrary. WHO SHOULD KNOW BETTER??
Bro..let not ur xtianity rob u of logical and crystal-clear thinking..
I maintain, I'm a xtian but not a religious fanatic who's afraid to dissect what To bliv b4 subsequent digestion..

There are a thousand and 1 tinz wrong with the book of Genesis..the same one u r tryin to argue out wit me..
Lolz..broda..let's liv dis debate abeg

P.S: The mental state of Adam and Eve in that Eden is in every way "childish innocence"..they had no idea what was goin on in their life and wat tussle was between God and lucifer, they were only given instructions to follow, which they disobeyed(as the bible put it) and this is not an expression of freewill..
Theologically, lexically and religiously, FREEWILL and DISOBEDIENCE can't exist on the same page..
U can't disobey what u've been given freewill to do, neither can u steal somtin that is termed "free"..

Xiadnat:


This guy has said it. Free will was there tree or not tree. The tree was given merely for Adam and Even to exercise their free will. And, so they did. And here we are.

Bro..I key into ur idea..but the question is why was GOD angry with dem upon eating the fruit if they had FREEWILL..
This FREEWILL term is stronger than we imagine oo..
---

I like illustrations a lot, it helps me bring out points in the simplest possible way..
If a babe tells u dat u're free to touch her anywhere u want..then u proceed to grab her Boobs, she slaps u afterwards(yet she gave u freewill with her body earlier)..
She said it was freewill, but her reaction says odawise..that, my bro is DECEPTION.
It's like giving som1 a blank cheque and get angry when the person writes a ridiculously high amount on it...is it nt funny?

Givin som1 FREEWILL means they r at liberty of their choices and whatever consequences therafter. It means u dnt av a sentimental stake in the virtue of their choice(i.e you're to reserve ur objections, if any). If u take an action upon dem as regards the choice dey made. You actually dint gv dem freewill..u merely tested them.

Maamin:


Yes and here we are crying over spilled milk..but not to worry, Yashua is come to set things straight

Barakha Xiadnat

Being awhile brah. Whats shaking?

Shalom. Shavua tov.

God was clearly hurt by their choices as He gave them all they needed in the garden except for the tree. Choosing the tree was a hot slap to gods face. Its like being cheated on by someone you lobed and cared for and gave everything and yet it wasnt enough.

God does have emotions y'know. I reckon he is hurt by our reckless choices and evil even today.

0ubenji:

Bro..I key into ur idea..but the question is why was GOD angry with dem upon eating the fruit if they had FREEWILL..
This FREEWILL term is stronger than we imagine oo..
---

I like illustrations a lot, it helps me bring out points in the simplest possible way..
If a babe tells u dat u're free to touch her anywhere u want..then u proceed to grab her Boobs, she slaps u afterwards(yet she gave u freewill with her body earlier)..
She said it was freewill, but her reaction says odawise..that, my bro is DECEPTION.
It's like giving som1 a blank cheque and get angry when the person writes a ridiculously high amount on it...is it nt funny?

Givin som1 FREEWILL means they r at liberty of their choices and whatever consequences therafter. It means u dnt av a sentimental stake in the virtue of their choice(i.e you're to reserve ur objections, if any). If u take an action upon dem as regards the choice dey made. You actually dint gv dem freewill..u merely tested them.

Xiadnat:
God was clearly hurt by their choices as He gave them all they needed in the garden except for the tree. Choosing the tree was a hot slap to gods face. Its like being cheated on by someone you lobed and cared for and gave everything and yet it wasnt enough.

God does have emotions y'know. I reckon he is hurt by our reckless choices and evil even today.

Lolz..then..let's do away wit d freewill concept sinx God(in ur comment) was hurt by their choice(which is normal)..but also got angry ova it(which is strange, he gv the freewill remember?)...thrz no justification for anger or outrage on the choices of sum1 u gv freewill in the first place(if it was indeed freewill).
Dat aside, but God bein hurt nd offended over Adam and Eve's choice(as genesis put it)..means he sort of neva expected it..u knw, kinda surprising, afta givin dem all dey cud eva wanted, they cud stil eff up like dat..now dis issue raises 2 questions..
1. God is omniscient, he knows all, even knows next year from today..so why wud he be hurt nd offended by what he knows wud apun..he cud av Avoided it, if he so wished, u knw..yet he seems surprised nd offended(abt wat he alredi knws) dat he laid a curse on dem..WHY??

2. Why did he put the tree dat caused dis whole issue thr?(according to genesis). He, supposedly knws wat wud apun next, yet he put d tree thr..WHY?

Cc: shadeyinka

What was it that transformed our ancestors from cave dwellers and arboreal simians into the current humans?

This event reportedly happened 100k years ago. I postulate or agree with the theory that our ancestors ate psychedelic mushrooms.

Tellemall:
Man has always had the choice of freewill, and that is why the first humans were given instructions in the first place, to instill a sense of order. This same free will allowed Eve to choose to pluck a fruit and Adam in his own freewill chose to eat it.

The only role the tree had to play is that once eaten it brought about conscience. Why? Because the moment one was to eat it, they would disobey God. Nobody needed to tell Adam and Eve that they had disobeyed. The moment they ate it, their conscience was awoken. Perhaps not directly by the fruit itself, but in consequence of eating it. They hid themselves without being told to. The first feeling of guilt ever recorded. The consequence of sin.

The fruit did not give freewill, it merely opened man up
to wrongdoinging and thus a conscience was awoken.

Prior to eating it, a conscience was not needed, because it was just obedience to every instruction from God. But once eaten with freewill it burdened Adam and Eve. Most people tend to blame Eve, however Adam had the same measure of freewill every other creation. Conscience is the direct result of eating the fruit. Freewill is ingrained in creation.

are you kidding? freewill without conscience? I have never heard of that.

if Adam and eve had freewill before eating the fruit(which of cos every experienced living organism has) then it means they had conscience.

it's that conscience that made God give them instructions. only robots have no conscience.

so you are just confuse Lolz.

when you don't know something don't pretend to know. ignoring would have been a better option.

Owliver:
are you kidding? freewill without conscience? I have never heard of that.

if Adam and eve had freewill before eating the fruit(which of cos every experienced living organism has) then it means they had conscience.

it's that conscience that made God give them instructions. only robots have no conscience.

so you are just confuse Lolz.

when you don't know something don't pretend to know. ignoring would have been a better option.

On the contrary, you are the confused one and should ignore, as it is the best option for you.

Freewill does not require a conscience. It means you can steal and kill if you please, and you don't have to feel bad about it. A conscience means that you are free to do so, too, but you know of the consequences and are worried about carrying out such evil acts because of their nature. A conscience is what maintains law nowadays. But we tend to think of criminals evil because they do not listen to their conscience and in some instances do not have one.

Next time, before you display your lower reasoning, try and stop to think.

Xiadnat:


Being awhile brah. Whats shaking?

Shalom. Shavua tov.

Yea its been a while, nothing much dear..been busy. How is you?

Toda