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Hnd/bsc Dichotomy Removed - Politics (4) - Nairaland

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Re: Hnd/bsc Dichotomy Removed by joyandfaith: 12:22pm On Jul 25, 2016
mrvitalis:

U are wrong
I have been in the oil industry most b. Engr holders in oik servicing companies are employed as technicians
But a HND holder can never be employed as an engineer unless he has pgd
That's a fact

i know of oil companies where both hnd and university graduates are ermployed as technicians. same salary.

1 Like

Re: Hnd/bsc Dichotomy Removed by jpphilips(m): 12:40pm On Jul 25, 2016
mrvitalis:

U are wrong
I have been in the oil industry most b. Engr holders in oik servicing companies are employed as technicians
But a HND holder can never be employed as an engineer unless he has pgd
That's a fact

Do you have a problem with English language?
Re: Hnd/bsc Dichotomy Removed by Nobody: 1:08pm On Jul 25, 2016
Sir,what is your take on this hnd/bsc issue with respect to our system here in nigeria,where a polytechnic functions more or less as a university,where a polytechnic offers almost same courses as a university?

The nigerian engineer argues that he is trained to reason analytically,making reference to the equations he did in school,but he believes a poly graduate is inferior or isn't trained to reason analytically,even when the same poly graduate offered same analytical courses as him. My argument is this,since the Nigerian polytechnics don't function the way it should,in the sense that it doesn't really teach students the purely practical facet of engineering. Since a Nigerian poly does more of theoretical work just like we have in the university ,isn't it suitable for the Nigerian polytechnics to be on an equal footing with the universities,since they both operate the same way.
agwu123:
Your post above has revealed your level of ignorance. Apart from academic masters (for those that want to go into teaching/lecturing), you can be admitted into master degree programmes with your HND within and outside Nigeria. Please go and read University of Ibadan (UI) Post Graduate School prospectus for various post graduate programmes.
Majority of us here are just advertising our ignorance and shallow mindedness to the entire world. I wouldn't blame you off course, you are beclouded with the ripple effect of the bureaucratic cum political tendencies of the managers of our educational system in Nigeria, a grave sin that have plunged Nigeria to the abyss of underdevelopment over the years.
May God help us always to do the right thing.



Re: Hnd/bsc Dichotomy Removed by Nobody: 1:33pm On Jul 25, 2016
Sir,what is your take on this hnd/bsc issue with respect to our system here in nigeria,where a polytechnic functions more or less as a university,where a polytechnic offers almost same courses as a university?

The nigerian engineer argues that he is trained to reason analytically,making reference to the equations he did in school,but he believes a poly graduate is inferior or isn't trained to reason analytically,even when the same poly graduate offered same analytical courses as him. My argument is this,since the Nigerian polytechnics don't function the way it should,in the sense that it doesn't really teach students the purely practical facet of engineering. Since a Nigerian poly does more of theoretical work just like we have in the university ,isn't it suitable for the Nigerian polytechnics to be on an equal footing with the universities,since they both operate the same way.
jpphilips:



Most servicing companies place Bsc and Hnd in tandem, it is only JV producing companies that discriminate in the oil industry, however, I think theirs is understandable because both do different jobs, again i have another feeling that it is still the Nigerian bureaucracy that crept into these companies after all, Nigeria still holds 60% of the JVs in most producing companies.
Re: Hnd/bsc Dichotomy Removed by mrvitalis(m): 2:04pm On Jul 25, 2016
illuminated93:
Your logic is warped. Both are distinct professions. Are both not allowed to get to the top most echelon of their professions? Moreover,both are administered by distinct bodies,the nma (medical association) and the psn(pharmaceutical society).

I trust that you are enlightened, please don't make me see you as a quack all because of your warped way of reasoning..
Cc conqueredwest
OK let me use pharmacist and a pharmaceutical Technologist... Can they ever be equal??
Hope this explains it to u
Re: Hnd/bsc Dichotomy Removed by Nobody: 2:23pm On Jul 25, 2016
Conqueredwest, pls come read what our colleague wrote. Smh
mrvitalis:

OK let me use pharmacist and a pharmaceutical Technologist... Can they ever be equal??
Hope this explains it to u
Re: Hnd/bsc Dichotomy Removed by UYCO: 3:16pm On Jul 25, 2016
I am happy at last. I can now put in my best into the civil service. Don't leverage on paper qualification to deceive people. Most BSc holders in the civil service cannot write memo. I am proud to be a graduate of PTI. The best petroleum Institute in Africa, far better than any University in Nigeria. We will
Now come together and begin to design marketable goods for export as a sign of appreciation to the FG and to also justify the decision. We don't need BSc holders to design for us but they cannot produce any thing on their own without us. What we need now is production not theory. So many theories abound that one can apply to develop marketable product for export. Since Isaac Newton develop the law of motion and escape velocity, how many air craft have we produced in Nigeria? BSc holders should continue to propound theories and keep in the library let us see how those theories will translate into marketable product for export that will stimulate the economy.

2 Likes

Re: Hnd/bsc Dichotomy Removed by UYCO: 3:21pm On Jul 25, 2016
HND and BSC are equal in all ramifications. The dichotomy is a fraud. Give us the same examination or aptitude test. Who ever pass the exam should promoted. Most BSc holders I know are very dull. They are afraid of aptitude test.

2 Likes

Re: Hnd/bsc Dichotomy Removed by UYCO: 3:22pm On Jul 25, 2016
HND and BSC are equal in all ramifications. The dichotomy is a fraud. Give us the same examination or aptitude test. Who ever passes the exam should be promoted. Most BSc holders I know are very dull. They are afraid of aptitude test.
Re: Hnd/bsc Dichotomy Removed by UYCO: 3:47pm On Jul 25, 2016
@Opey25, if your argument is based on the number of credit used to gain admission, it means that my HND is higher than most BSc because I have 9 credit in one sitting and most BSc holders combine waec and neco to get five credit. I wrote from my head not through runs and special centers like most University graduates do.
Re: Hnd/bsc Dichotomy Removed by UYCO: 4:15pm On Jul 25, 2016
We produced gear teeth and other machine parts in sapele technical college for three years. Why should we import bolt and nuts when the technical colleges can be strengthened to produce those components. Nigerian leaders are low thinkers. They don't use their brains because they consume too much alcohol and hard drugs
Re: Hnd/bsc Dichotomy Removed by ConqueredWest: 4:47pm On Jul 25, 2016
illuminated93:
Conqueredwest, pls come read what our colleague wrote. Smh

Just ignored them. My advice to Nigerians is that, Technology should be taught the way it should be taught.
Re: Hnd/bsc Dichotomy Removed by jpphilips(m): 5:09pm On Jul 25, 2016
illuminated93:
Sir,what is your take on this hnd/bsc issue with respect to our system here in nigeria,where a polytechnic functions more or less as a university,where a polytechnic offers almost same courses as a university?

The nigerian engineer argues that he is trained to reason analytically,making reference to the equations he did in school,but he believes a poly graduate is inferior or isn't trained to reason analytically,even when the same poly graduate offered same analytical courses as him. My argument is this,since the Nigerian polytechnics don't function the way it should,in the sense that it doesn't really teach students the purely practical facet of engineering. Since a Nigerian poly does more of theoretical work just like we have in the university ,isn't it suitable for the Nigerian polytechnics to be on an equal footing with the universities,since they both operate the same way.

where are the new designs? if they are absent, what is the relevance of the Nigerian Engineer? B.eng and HNDs are theoretical technicians from a Nigerian labor market point of view.
Re: Hnd/bsc Dichotomy Removed by olagold79: 6:00pm On Jul 25, 2016
idupaul:
Good news but it never really existed it just existed in the mind of those who believed that University cert had more value than a poly cert but they have always been equivalent

You seriously think it never existed?....ask people who are paid 2/3rd of what their University graduate counterpart earn on the same job.

1 Like

Re: Hnd/bsc Dichotomy Removed by olagold79: 6:17pm On Jul 25, 2016
OrlandoOwoh:

His analogy is right. Most of you jubilitating don't really understand what you read. The only thing in this piece of news is that (though not yet approved) the limitation in the level a HND will get in the civil service has been removed. Have you asked yourself if it means not making PGD compulsory for HND holders wanting to study for their masters? Can holders of HND now be in the same level with Bsc holders? Ask yourself pertinent questions that affect young people, not celebrating what only men and women already in the civil service would enjoy.


Thank you bro. That's the only question I want answered. My babe just called me n was jubilanting, I told her d only way this will be of any interest to you is if it allows you to go for MsC straight.

But trust our youth, we'll turn everything n everything to unnecessary argument of superiority. I was hoping to get enlightened discussion here...all I can gain is bickering and unnecessary verbal assaults. What's my business if Bsc is better than HND...your degree is practically useless even in Ghana or Serriea leone.Oir only leeway is to do Msc n excel or gain a valuable global skill.
Re: Hnd/bsc Dichotomy Removed by Nobody: 6:27pm On Jul 25, 2016
After a very good defination you just messed your explanation up, its clear a developing country needs more of technologist than more of engineers, but you see the engineers filling the space of the technologist while the techs sits at home no job and it becomes a case of round pegs in square holes.
Its a fact that the compliment each other and one cannot survive without the other, just like the Nurses have found out the Doctors are overatted and are out to prove thier worth. we see doctors fumble in simple abortion cases and see nurses perform such excellently.
The engineers have being unable to produce any new equipment or make break throughs but you see the techs managing and maintaining old dilapitated equipment in labs that were imported in the 60s
Statistics have proved a number of times that the university graduates are no better than thier polytecnic graduate, but for the sake of inferiority complex some just want it to stay, its a lazy mans wish.
The fact that this is com ing at a time like this should mean we all come together to move this country forward.

ConqueredWest:




You see why Africans are backward in the field of knowledge.

You defined Technician, Engineering Technologist and Engineer

The question you should have asked yourself is, what is the definition of Technologist.?

Engineering Technologist is not the same as Technologist or Engineer.

Engineering Technologist is a blend of both. That is why Engineer was defined even after mentioning the word Engineer in Engineering Technology.



The inability of Africans to understand that Technologists are not Engineers and not below Engineers is the reason why Africans can't produce technological things


Difference between a Technologist and Engineering


Engineering focuses more on design based on scientific knowledge( equations, laws, theories,principles etc..)

That is why in engineering, you are taught scientific equations, laws , theories, principles etc and towards the last session in school DESIGN based on these things


Technologist focuses more how things work and how things are produced. This enables a Technologist to bring into reality things designed by Engineers.

That is why in Technology you are taught how things are produced and how they work and in the last session in school, you are taught what to consider when bringing a design into reality.


UNFORTUNATELY, No Nigerian higher institution teaches technology as it should be taught. Rather our polytechnics teach Engineering calling it Technology.

For this reason, we don't have enough graduates that can reproduced or invent new technological products that can be industrialized to aid our economy.
Re: Hnd/bsc Dichotomy Removed by UYCO: 6:48pm On Jul 25, 2016
The problem we have in this country is that we want to start running when we are yet to learn how to crawl. We want to adopt American system of education but we fail to realize that America left where we are now over 200 years ago. China was smart enough to understand this fact and they took advantage of technology to develop their economy. Americans are complaining that whatever they design in America is mass produced in China. Like the above poster said. A developing country needs more of technologist than paper engineers. We need production of goods for export not theories. There are millions of theories and design out there that we can copy and produce and export to stimulate our economy.
Re: Hnd/bsc Dichotomy Removed by ConqueredWest: 9:13pm On Jul 25, 2016
UYCO:
The problem we have in this country is that we want to start running when we are yet to learn how to crawl. We want to adopt American system of education but we fail to realize that America left where we are now over 200 years ago. China was smart enough to understand this fact and they took advantage of technology to develop their economy. Americans are complaining that whatever they design in America is mass produced in China. Like the above poster said. A developing country needs more of technologist than paper engineers. We need production of goods for export not theories. There are millions of theories and design out there that we can copy and produce and export to stimulate our economy.

Unfortunately technology is not taught the way it should be taught. That's why we can't reproduced Western technologies like the Chinese let alone modifying them to meet our needs
Re: Hnd/bsc Dichotomy Removed by blueAgent(m): 12:29pm On Jul 27, 2016
OrlandoOwoh:

The British colonial government built universities in West Africa. University College, Ibadan, Nigeria and the University College, Legon, Ghana were built.

Nice one. this Clowns keep fooling themselves without the Whites there could have not been any Nigeria to start with.
Re: Hnd/bsc Dichotomy Removed by blueAgent(m): 12:35pm On Jul 27, 2016
jpphilips:


Who built UI?
American University in Cairo was built by who?
American international University West Africa in Gambia was built by who?
British university in Cairo nko?


Nigeria was a British colony and they modelled UI, OAU and UNILAG's curriculum after Cambridge's, brought Cambridge Professors to run it, what was the need building more? what was the population of Nigeria and interest in education at the time? was it not the time when communities contribute for one of them to go to higher institution?
It is complete fallacy to say they deliberately refused to build universities, in my own opinion, they left us in a hurry, the reason SA was quintessential to your warped analogy is because they stayed longer in SA than other African countries.


Nice writeup Bro. i love people who say the truth without sentiments.
Re: Hnd/bsc Dichotomy Removed by Proudlyngwa(m): 1:19pm On Jul 27, 2016
You all made Valid points , mixed up with a lot of nonsense.
What Nigeria needs at this stage is professionals and experts.
What good is a 5 year programme if a 6months intensive training can achieve same.
The little girl with me was given 17 subjects to study when she entered SS1, I advised her she only needed five credits to be promoted, what did she want to be in future and I helped her select those topics. I saw her result yesterday and she had four excellent, english and mathematics included , five credits with two pass and promoted about to enter SS3 now.

What am trying to say is whether HND or BSC , we have fine beyond that stage . What we need now is professional examination bodies and professional regulatory bodies.

Cc: orlandoowoh. Conqueredwest mrvitalis jpphilips
Re: Hnd/bsc Dichotomy Removed by Mellowbaba: 9:33pm On Jul 27, 2016
Vitalis and others read this quitetly, stop all these u ar sayn againg HND. Y afraid, Y fidgeting? Let's meet in an interview and knw d best among d two. What do u want to benefit frm d downfall of others, does dat change d value of yur BSC? I pity most ppl dat enjoys d inferiority of their fellow. Stop thnkn on yur own benefit alone, yur personal aggrandizement wl tak u no whr. Ok? I knw most of u ppl are scared and afraid of standing an interview wt HND holder because w dnt carry last. U can only proof yur superiority by yur excellence performance in any interview alongside d HND holders, nt by mere words. I beg u ppl, b patient, let's meet on field, interview. Then w wl b ascertained who is d best and who is substandard. Whether it is implemented now or not, better go and start reading yur books now wherevr u kept it because sooner or later d deed wl b done, so that u wnt b put t shame. It is a pity u ar gratified by d HND hoder's misfortune in d areas of nt goin beyond level 14 while u exceed 16-17 level in d administration cadre, deprived allowances, denied promotion, PGD b4 Masters, d money involved, time, 2mention but few. Aaahhhh, u are bad pple. Anyone who enjys d inferiority of his fellow human being can nvr progress but retrogress. I pray w dnt meet in any interview, then u'l c ao I wl twist u round my own little finger. Dnt 4get, try not to step into d toes of HND holders anymore. Ds fact wl b justified and made known when d equation is duely effectively in practice. Just Imagine, some ppl are sick and tired of ds discrimination due 2d time and resources ascribed to it, but some of u are satisfied, contempted and unhappy wt d resolution while it has nothing to remove from d glory in yur BSC, Mennnn, U ar indeed bad people. To cap it ahead, Proof yurslvs by performance not by essentrically passionate generally blved attached to BSC, HND no b child play OOO abeg.. Ire ooo.
Re: Hnd/bsc Dichotomy Removed by Mellowbaba: 9:35pm On Jul 27, 2016
Vitalis and others read this quietly, stop all these u ar sayn againg HND. Y afraid, Y fidgeting? Let us meet in an interview and know d best among d two. What do u want to benefit from d downfall of others, does dat change d value of yur BSC? I pity most ppl dat enjoys d inferiority of their fellow. Stop thinking on yur own benefit alone, yur personal aggrandizement wl tak u no whr. Ok? I knw most of u ppl are scared and afraid of standing an interview wt HND holder because w dnt carry last. U can only proof yur superiority by yur excellence performance in any interview alongside d HND holders, nt by mere words. I beg u ppl, b patient, let's meet on field, interview. Then w wl b ascertained who is d best and who is substandard. Whether it is implemented now or not, better go and start reading yur books now wherevr u kept it because sooner or later d deed wl b done, so that u wnt b put t shame. It is a pity u ar gratified by d HND hoder's misfortune in d areas of nt goin beyond level 14 while u exceed 16-17 level in d administration cadre, deprived allowances, denied promotion, PGD b4 Masters, d money involved, time, 2mention but few. Aaahhhh, u are bad pple. Anyone who enjys d inferiority of his fellow human being can nvr progress but retrogress. I pray w dnt meet in any interview, then u'l c ao I wl twist u round my own little finger. Dnt 4get, try not to step into d toes of HND holders anymore. Ds fact wl b justified and made known when d equation is duely effectively in practice. Just Imagine, some ppl are sick and tired of ds discrimination due 2d time and resources ascribed to it, but some of u are satisfied, contempted and unhappy wt d resolution while it has nothing to remove from d glory in yur BSC, Mennnn, U ar indeed bad people. Moreso, if they jubilate, let them do bcs if u were in ur shoes u wl definetely do so or more. Dnt b in a hurry, d challenges of d dichotomy will all b dealt with in due course. So if u thnk it is those in service dat wl enjoy it, one day others wl als benefit from it. We cnt continue to b slaves 2incompetent personnels anymore. When d disparity is removed accordn 2d info then u shld knw dat all d injured areas wl b put in order. To cap it ahead, Proof yurslvs by performance not by essentrically passionate generally blved attached to BSC, HND no b child play OOO abeg.. Ire ooo.
Re: Hnd/bsc Dichotomy Removed by iamNiyo: 10:07am On Jul 28, 2016
Abeg make dem implement am sharply sharply with immediate alacrity
Re: Hnd/bsc Dichotomy Removed by kayusely70(m): 11:54am On Jul 16, 2022
Harbdulrasaq:
At last, it is with excitement, capital joy amidst jubilation and celebration of over 20 years struggle of Nigerian Polytechnic students and graduates including the staff unions and heads of Polytechnic in Nigeria.

I am pleased to announce to the public that the COUNCIL OF ESTABLISHMENT which comprises of all the head of service of the 36 States of the Federation and the head of service of the Federation approved the removal of this long overdue dichotomy which hinder the career progression of HND holders in civil service in her 39th meeting held in Minna Niger state capital during the week after an exhaustive deliberation, pro and anti deposition which ended with tie vote of 16 against 16 while the head of service of the Federation voted in support as presiding officer after the tie, to earn the Polytechnic sector the victory.

Making the vote 17 pro against 16 anti. Henceforth, This resolution automatically lift embargo on HND holder career progression in civil service as the holder can now rise beyond Deputy Director in civil service as well enjoy all sort of benefits/promotion to the topmost rank due to BSc holders in civil service.

It is on record that this same Council was the sole obstacle for this struggle since year 2005 when President Olusegun Obasanjo pronounced the removal of this dichotomy, the Council called the then president statement a mere pronouncement with out documentation and refused it adoption nor implementation.

It will be recalled that the last meeting of the council which was held at Ilorin kwara state capital witness heavy presence of Nigeria Polytechnic students which I personally led as the National Senate President of NAPS to the council in protest for the need for the council to reconsider her position on the said matter.

A position paper was submitted after the protest as demanded by the then head of service of Federation who was the chairman of the Council, unfortunately, the matter was completely discussed nor concluded at Ilorin until now in her next meeting in Niger state.

The Council often meets every 2 years, On behalf of the entire West Africa Polytechnic students and most especially the Nigeria Polytechnic students, I express sincere gratitude to the head of service of states and that of the Federation who stood for us and with us, the Federal Ministry of Education, the National Board for Technical Education NTBE, Council of Head of Polytechnic and Colleges of Technology COHEADS, Academic Staff Union of Polytechnic ASUP, past and present leadership of National Association Of Polytechnic Students NAPS and by extension the Nigerians Union of journalist for their support all through the struggle.

We look forward for immediate implementation by all state of the Federation, Federal government agencies and departments while I call on all Polytechnic student to join us as we Commence appreciation/celebration.

Amb S A Lukman ‪#‎AIG‬
Immediate past Senate President NAPS, Outgoing Regional President WAPSU

http://www.edificationinfo.com/2016/07/hndbsc-dichotomy-removed.html

cc lalasticlala
Has it been implemented?

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