Shinystar,

when you get the chance, pick up a copy of the book, "Godliness for Gain" it would blow your mind. The author not only covered how prosperity gospel has now come to become the norm in Nigeria, but even the origin of it and what has helped it to become so popular.

zukkie4eva:

Who said Christ did not preach prosperity, Maybe you have a myopic understanding of the word properity. Prosperity is total complete physical and spiritual wellbeing. A sick rich man to me is not prosperous.

Jesus Christ preached prosperity because He said in God's word, that He was called to preach the gospel to the POOR, recovery of sight to the blind, and deliverance to the captives. Now that to me, is prosperity in itself! Did you read in the bible that God made Isaac rich?, He prospered him so much, that he became mightily great and waxed strong??

Do you know that it costs money to preach the gospel??, to go on air, distribute ministry materials, e.t.c.?? That is why God is increasing His children because He knows when He blesses them, they would use it in propagating the gospel.

When you go to church, don't open your ears wide open only when the pastor begins to preach on prosperity, open your ears also when he begins to preach salvation and make those altar calls that even you yourself, ignore. The whole message of prosperity is embedded in salvation.

REMEMBER, CHRIST WAS MADE POOR FOR OUR SAKES SO THAT THROUGH HIS POVERTY WE MIGHT BECOME RICH!

Jesus Christ said he came to preach the Gospel to the poor, simply because in biblical times the rich were pictured as arrogant and proud, while the poor were pictured as receptive and humble (see the parable of the Rich man's prayer and the poor man's prayer). THAT is why he said he came to preach the good news to the poor.
by writing as you did, you insinuate that the rich in biblical times had no need of the gospel. that is wrong!

The bible had many examples of poor couples that were filled with the Holy Spirit. In the parable of the Widow's mite, did you hear Jesus condemn the widow for her poverty? Instead Jesus talked about the amount of wealth she had stored up for herself in heaven by her actions.
nowadays, you hear pastors tell you that if you're a christan you cannot be poor. This makes every church member desperate to acquire wealth, if only to show the world they aren't sinners. when you preach christianity means wealth and physical blessings, where does that leave poor and/or disabled people?
it's sad but true; we're gradually returning to the days of the Pharisees and Sadducees, where every poor man or cripple is a sinner! after all, if they were good christians they'd have prosperity, wouldn't they. danger lurks in such teaching.

the prosperity message is understandably appealing. people naturally long for rewards on earth rather that rewards in heaven they 'believe' in, but are impatient for. and the first rule in communication is "Give the people what they want!". God naturally would love His servants to prosper. but remember that the bible is filled with lots of examples of people who had disdain for eartly wealth. it's instructive to note that our greatest example, Jesus wasn't exactly rolling in wealth. Most other apostles had little in way of material wealth.

Texaszpete, that was a brilliant piece. Unfortunately, we as humans, with our own frailities have sucumbed to the wiles of the world that one's success in today's world is gauged by the abundance of property and material wealth that we have accumulated in the society. As such, some people cave into these demands and fall into this temptation. Pastors are not above blame also. Rather than making the Salvation of God their number one priority to their congregation, avarice, takes center stage in their life.

I just can't justify why any pastor would dress in a flashy $ 2,000 (estimate, abeg), suit or live in complete opulence, while beckoning to his congregants that their God is a rich God and would then inveigle them out of their hard earned money. Avarice has taken domination in their lives while modesty has been thrown out of the backdoor.

Please note: I am not an advocate of poverty, but I think excessive wealth itself is a problem to an individual, especially, if one's mind is completely attuned to it.

it's instructive to note that our greatest example, Jesus wasn't exactly rolling in wealth. Most other apostles had little in way of material wealth.

TEXASPETE, JESUS WASN'T ROLLING IN WEALTH BECAUSE THE BIBLE EXPRESSLY STATED THAT HE WAS MADE POOR SO THAT THROUGH HIS POVERTY WE MIGHT BE MADE RICH.

THE KINGDOM PRINCIPLE ON PROSPERITY IS SIMPLY THIS - GIVE, AND IT WOULD BE GIVEN BACK UNTO YOU

I AM A BIG TIME GIVER TO THE WORK OF GOD, AND I DO NOT LACK. NOT THAT I STRUGGLE TO MAKE WEALTH OR FAME, MONEY JUST COMES TO ME. GOD BRINGS THE RIGHT PEOPLE AND OPPORTUNITIES MY WAY TO ENSURE THAT I PROSPER.

I AM RICH, DESPITE ALL MY GIVINGS, MY SOURCE STILL DOES NOT RUN DRY. I AM MADE RICH NOT BECAUSE I WORK EXTREMELY HARDER THAN OTHERS, BUT IT IS SO THAT GOD'S WORD MAY BE FULFILLED IN MY LIFE THAT SAYS - "AS LONG AS THE HEAVEN AND EARTH REMAIN, SEED TIME AND HARVEST WOULD NEVER CEASE."

YOU CAN NEVER OUTGIVE GOD. WHEN YOU GIVE IN CHURCH, BEGIN TO SEE IT AS THAT YOU ARE GIVEN TO GOD AND NOT TO MAN BECAUSE THAT IS THE ONLY WAY YOU CAN RECEIVE FULL REWARD FOR YOUR GIVING.

BEGIN TO STORE UP FOR YOURSELVES TREASURE IN HEAVEN (by giving to the work of God) WHERE MOTHS AND CANKERWORMS CANNOT DESTROY IT.

-Trust me on this, it works!!

In all this, there's need to remember that Godliness with contentment is great gain. Making God one's focus and being contented with what one has, without being lazy and allowing one's pontentials go untapped will give peace of mind. I don't believe that every Christian or believer will become a millionaire, but that doesn't mean one is poor. There's need for proper definition of prosperity. For me, it to be the best God intends for you according to Joshua 1:8 and Psalm 1.

Shalom.  

Tell them zukkie4eva!

Of course we will always have broke christians among us. Jesus told us so (John 12:8 )

But i refuse to be poor! I am loaded and that is so that i cn reach out to the lost and help the needy.

Godliness is good but a selfish/stingy man is not godly.

In fact, our giving to the kingdom establishes our righteousness.

Psalm 112:9
He hath dispersed, he hath given to the poor; his righteousness endureth for ever; his horn shall be exalted with honour.

I too am a giver and my life has been better off for it. No matter what the adversary brings my way, i always remain on top because my seeds are speaking for me, crying from the sanctuary of God heleluyah!

I can nevr be broke in my life 'because i know the secret of Abundance in Christ.

A man is as he thinks he is. The truth is, every Christian is rich. We all have an inheritance in Christ. But only the doers of the Word enjoy that inheritance here on earth.

They haven't seen anything yet. We will buy up establishments, multinationals for the work of the kingdom. Jesus is coming soon for His church and the time is short. Many are in need of help and Salvation in the world and God is counting on us to reach them.

A church like the one i belong to will only grow richer and richer because from the pastor to the members, Jesus is number one on the agenda. His work comes first before ourselves. When the poor come and hear the word long enough, they become rich. We see destitutes, homeless children, prostitutes, drug addicts brought out of their conditions to the house of God. We give them proper accomodation, feeding and for many, free education. Businesses are set up for some.

THAT IS WHY WE ARE ONLY CHALLENGED TO DO MORE FOR GOD.

What will you rather i do with my money? Build casinos??

oh!, thank you Donnie for this.

This is the conclusion of the whole matter, Let him that has ear, hear what the spirit is saying,

Must a person belives in christ b4 he becomes rich what about the moslems, hindus and atheist that are doing very well? China has an atheist government and its far richer than nigeria today which is one of the most religious country in the world so what have u got to say to that? most europens are athiest and they are far richer than we the nigerians that believe in God so knowing God has nothing to do with wealth and riches, infact the so called sinners are the ones that are rich, it just doesnt make sense. if u want to belive in God believe in God and abide by his laws stop allowing some stupid pastors to fool u and steal all ur money in the name of prosperity.

I know people who have been going to church for decades and giving out heavly and nothing has changed in their lives infact Nigeria with all its so many prosperity preaching pastors is going poorer as days go by so are its citizens that believe in the lying thieves who call them selve prosperity pastors. My people open ur eyes and try to be hard working and smart instead of waiting and relying on someones dubious quotation of the bible that u think will make you rich.

Mazaje,

Thanks for your view. You have hit the nail on the head. Many Nigerians have been deceived into looking for shortcuts to becoming rich. Pastors now argue they only need to sow to prosper. And like you said, Nigeria is poorer for it. I wonder why the God we are giving so much is not blessing us above atheists. The answer is: Because he is not partial. Prosperity has to do with solving human problems and meeting needs. Money is the reward for meeting specific needs. But how many pastors are saying this?

Rather they will organise porgrammes during working hours and convince members to attend. I was with pastor Sunday Adelaja, the Nigerian pastoring the largest church in Europe, recently. He said the major problem with Nigeria is the church. He added that the undue emphasis on prosperity in the church has promoted greed and raised a pool of lazy people who are only expecting miracles as against working for God. And I couldn't agree less with him. He should know because he is rich and still godly.

Thanks

What a pity that even at this time, none of you have seen the work of God in our country. Well, time will tell if those words were honoured in heaven. What i see here is a misunderstanding of the message of prosperity and no wonder the campaign against it. With all due respect, i stand to refute outrightly the statement credited(if rightly) to Pastor Adelaja that the Church is the problem of Nigeria. Though i will not say that the church is fully functioning in its rightful place as salt of the earth, i believe that ignorance and visionlessness have been the problem of our people and not the church. The properity which Jesus brought is that which anoints a man's mind, energizing his thinking faculty such that he is given supernatural wisdom with which he functions excellently, recieving knowledge of witty inventions. It blesses a man in such a way that whatever he sets his hands to do prospers. Brethren, this is not that kind of 'siddon look' properity. I was not taught that. I am a professional and an excellent performer on my job but there is a power at work in me causing me to think and do the extraordinary. That is prosperity!

donnie

"I am a professional and an excellent performer on my job but there is a power at work in me causing me to think and do the extraordinary. That is prosperity"   

what about the professional Athiest,muslims, hindus,jews,tahios,pahlingons and all those other religions out there that are far more intelligent and richer than you are and  are far more excellent perfomers in their jobs than you? where do they get their extraordinary insipration and power from? my friend you only believe that its the words of those lying pastors that makes u do the extraordinary but am here to tell you its not true. what u feel is the extraordinary and makes u excel because of what some lying pastors tell you is what people that don't even believe in God are doing, u have the ability in u its just that u need to find it , focus on it and try to use it with out any pastor telling you how to because u can do it yourself, all the lies u hear in church about giving to God and sowing seeds inother to prosper are not true, God doesnt need ur seed b4 he blesses you he blesses who ever he choses and wants to bless not the person that has sowed the biggest seed i know people that have been sowing for years with nothing to show for it and i know people that dont know what sowing is and are extra properous.

I still will continue to say it most of the europeans here don't even believe in God but are still prospering  far more than the we the nigerians that believe sooo much in God infact nothin much has change in our lives progressively as a people despite all of the sowing of the seed of prosperity. just be deciplined and do what is right prosperity will definately come your way gong to church and praying all day with out doing the right thing will make u poorer just as it is happening in nigeria today more people are attending prosperity churches and listening to the lies day in day out and the same people are going poorer daily because they arent utilizing their time well and doing the right things while the average europen athiest will just wake up do what he knows is right, he  tries to be smart,he utilizeses any oppurtunity that comes his way and ends up far more properous than u the daily church goer that spends all his little salary  and earnings sowing the seed of prosperity and expecting to get rich on the account of some dubious pastor.

@mazaje
I agree with your line of reasoning, except that you generalise the pastors as 'lying Pastors'.

Prosperity is not only a financial manisfestation, The soul does prosper (according to the bible 3 jn 2). Hence you may be incorrect in saying that People in Europe, and China are prospering more than the so-called believers in God.

Also the pastor should not teach that it is those who believe in God that prosper. Rather those who practice the laws of God concerning prosperity will prosper.

Hence I will tell you that if you study the practices of the nations you have described as propserous, you will see that they practice, much more than we Nigerians, the las governing financial propsperity, viz

Work hard
Plan
Save
Study
Invest
Give

These are all biblical principles (if you want scriptural refs, I am happy to provide), currently practiced more effectively by peoples of the western world than we do. These principles do not change, whether you are hindu, Christian, Pagan, atheist.

Prosperity of the soul is a different matter. If you give to the work of the kingdom, If you give and do nothing else,
then your soul and nothing else will prosper.

@Grouppoint

I understand what u are saying but when i talk of prosperity am talking of the way the dubious pastors (not all pastors but soo many of them) decieve people openly and tell them u have to sow the seed of prosperity in their church else nothing good will come your way.

I have been to so many churches in nigeria and its all the same thing. different lying accounts of how people have sowed in the name of the lord and are reaping endlessly from the lord's blessings and what not.

Let me give u an account of what happened while i was in the university in nigeria back in 2002, a girl friend of mine then took me to a retreat at her church which. all what the pastor was saying just didnt make sense to me. he was saying that there is no way u can believe in God and be poor qouting different bible verses to support his claim. instead of telling people to be more hardworking and innovative in their business the thief was telling them that, they should cultivate the habit of giving unto the lord because those that give unto the lord shall never lack. why all this lies? u can give unto the lord from now till u die , but as far as u don't do what is right i.e take your business seriously and try to look at ways u can make it grow inother to maximise profit poverty will be with u till u die . giving and having faith will making u no richer what will make u richer is hard work, a bit of luck and smartness, not giving to a pastor while u keep dying in poverty.


He had already told them to bring a small hand towel  the previous time . he told them to wave it unto the lord and and pray upon it.  after that he prayed and told them to go and hang it for 3 days where ever they are working or schooling , he said for those that are taxi drivers they should hang it in their car mirrows and for those that work in the office they should hang it in their offices and for the students they should hang it in their various rooms. isnt this idol worshipping? the fools believed in him and did as he said, they took out all their money and gave it to him in the name of sowing for riches. Imagine the decrease in efficiency that kind of preaching will create instead of working hard to succeed people will just go and hang out some nonsense white hand towel at their places of work and expect it to turn their lives around on the account of some sweet talking dubious pastor thats madness and when i talk about prosperity gospel am talking about such lying, theiving pastors. that are just using the ignorance of the congregation to steal from them.

i was in nigeria at the beggining of this year and most of the people that hung that white cloth the pastor told them back in 2002 at their places of work were no better for it. they are still living in poverty and life is still the same to most of them. so u see people should learn to open their eyes and serve God because they want to serve him and learn the decipline and holiness that christianity teaches not because they want to get rich else those thieves will always be stealing from them.

I cannot deny that the proliferation of the church in Nigeria is due on a large part to the get rich quick attitude of the average Nigerian. WHo does not want to take the neccessary steps to be successful, but would rather sow a seed and recieve a hundred fold overnight.
Hence, the blam has to be shared by Pastors and congregation alike.

However, I have attended some good churces. Good churches where emphasis is on teaching just as Christ taught, If you do, you will learn many of the principles I laid earlier.

There will always be churches that deal with the masses, and they tend to reason that there is no point in trying to teach 10,000 people how to be prosperous, so they resort to the miraculous, like the hand towel incidence you alluded to earlier.

@Mazaje

Have you ever been to Winners' Chapel?, Faith tabernacle to be precise.

@ Donzman
i have been to Living faith winner chapel, by the way why did u ask?

Just wanted to know. I used to think they were one of these 'prosperity churches' and it's the only one I've attended. They do not really preach what you described in the post above, they give you tools to succeed in whatever you do. They preach responsibility, diligence, hardwork, honesty, sacrifice and most importantly, belieft in God Almighty. I've never heard anyone say you should just sow and you'll get rich. You work hard, believe in God and he will bless you. If you decide to give back part of what God has given you, you're not a fool, just someone who is giving thanks. Winners Chapel actually teach things that will enable you succeed and I believe they're one of the so called "prosperity churches". I think of them more as "positive thinking churches", where you will see success and be motivated to succeed. Nobody will tell you to sit in a room and pray for manna from heaven, they tell you things you can do to earn God's favour and the favour of your employer/business partners.

This is just what I got from attending Faith Tabernacle (Winners Chapel) services for about one month this past summer and my opinion on the whole prosperity gospel changed. It was like a motivational seminar based on the bible, you had people always willing to tell you how they applied biblical teaching of hardwork, faith, diligence and got results and I never choose to ridicule that. Ofcourse there are imitation prophets but since when did imitation become the yardstick by which to measure the original?

The bible says Faith without works is dead! God's word does not work by magic, there are principles you have to live by. The bible says "God would prosper the work of our hands" which means your hands have to work.


When we talk about prosperity that comes with giving. It is true and definitely unwavering. God's word that says give and it would be given back unto you is TRUE!!, I am a witness to that. His word never fails!

Magaze, God prospers you when you give to him, There is a kind of prosperity tied to giving. Not that i'm against hardwork but things come to you differently when you give. The bible says giving establishes a man's righteousness.


Have you seen the 'alabaro' labourer in the market pushing carts, do you thing you work harder than them??, 'course not!, the guy works like jacki 14 hours a day, but doesn't make as much gain as you and I?, No! So really, it's not all about hard-work, it's also about 'GRACE'.

Why do you think America is so rich and they keep getting richer by the day?, It's becos they GIVE!!!. They are Givers!!!. The giver is more blessed than the receiver. If your heart is in your giving, you would surely receive reward for your giving. So work and give!

Zukie 4 eva,

I appreciate that Americans are richer because they give but do they necessarily give to the church. The American society boasts of charitable organisations that are well funded by private individuals. But do we have that here? How many Nigerians are willing to fund the projects of someone else?

It still boils down to the fact that excessive emphasis on prosperity has turned us to greedy people. Because how rich you are defines how well the church receives you, everyone is into the business of grabbing as much as possible. We are getting rich for ourselves only because we don't see churches support good causes financially.

I am a church boy but I have too many reservations with the church system in Nigeria. It is too egoistic and materialistic for comfort.

"Magaze, God prospers you when you give to him, There is a kind of prosperity tied to giving. Not that i'm against hardwork but things come to you differently when you give. The bible says giving establishes a man's righteousness."


personally I believe God prospers a person if he gives to others more than giving to a local church or assembly. as u said about the US giving thats why they are properous as a nation. i will like to know if they give out to the church? do they? no they dont they mostly give out to those they feel are poor and in need, instead of pastors preaching about people giving to each other they tell people to give to them in the name of giving unto the lord, i will want every body to give a quality offering to the lord is what u hear during offering time, sow quality seeds so that the lord will bless u, they never tell people to feed their hungry neighbours or to take their money and help settle the hospital bills of the poor, its all about giving to the church in the name of giving unto God.

Giving doesnt really mean giving onto the church or local assembly, pastors should learn to tell people to give unto thier poor neighbours instead of giving to the local assembly cos to me its better to give to a poor hungry or sick guy on the streets than to give to the local assembly.

We should not give, to expect any reward from God, but let it come from the sincerity of our heart.

About sowing of seed, a practise in some Churches, I don't know if it is Biblical or not, but to be frank with all of you, lets all strive for contentment. Dont be a slave for money. In today's world, a lot of emphasis is being placed on the accumulation of material goods, sometimes at the expense of God's Salvation. To me, God's Salvation should come first, and we should strive to obey Him at all cost. It is better that way, choose the Salvation of God, over money, than to be awashed with money with a false sense of importance.

Another blessing from God, that people at times overlook is a peace of mind. Riches without peace of mind is unfulfilling. Others may be rich, and reside in mansions that would definitely merit a place in Architectural digest, but lack peace in their life, and as such, cant enjoy their money. Contentment is the key. Dont ever slave for money, or else it may gain control over your life.


Cheers.

Listen brothers and sisiters. I know there are some who give for the sole reason or recieveing a hundred fold. But for some of us, we give, first of all because there is a need to be met in the house of God. We are commited to this gospel that we have believed. We are concious of the reason why God has called us and increased us financially.

I know you will prefer for me to attribute my success in life to mere positive thinking and hardwork like many so called christians have done. Where then is the grace of God that we have recieved? We are not of this world! Brother, i know that i know that i know that it takes a lot more than positve thinking and hardwork to be an all-round victor in life!

I believe in that God that multiplied five loves of bread and two fish so that it would feed over five thousand people with left-overs. I believe in The God of Elisha. The one who visited the house of that poor widow and turned her into a big time business woman. I believe in the God that brought a coin out of the mouth of a fish. I refuse to deny the power of God! The devil is a liar!

@ shinystar

somewhere you wrote, "you can be rich and go to hell" Sameway, you can still be poor and go to hell. There is no doubt the church has spent decades teaching wrongly that poverty is a hallmark or is a way to heaven and being a good christian. If some group of christians have found it necessary to change this beleive, then let it be.

The onus is not on we mortals to say a pastor is mis-interpreting GOD's word.

I am not against suffering under persecution. That is nice. But apart from that, i reject poverty. No unclean thing shall see heaven. Poverty is a disgrace to God.

i once drank of this "poison" and, while in the process of being 'cured', was very much against its spread. now i think of it more as an opium than as a poison. we nigerians love to be optimistic and need something to fan this optimism. since the situation of the country isnt very encouraging, i guess most ppl find encouragement in the prosperity message of churches. it's like they desperately need it to be true and are willing it to be so. why else would someone believe that Jesus was rich on earth, when the bible records otherwise. it isnt just the pastors that are making prosperity preaching popular, church members also love to hear it. it's ok for now, but eventually when this stuff doesnt work for majority of the ppl and they get angry with God, these pastors would be held responsible.

Of course it matters where u give. Its not everyone who preaches that is a man of God. So many are giving to ordinary men or sometimes, fraudsters. Your offerings must make contact with the divine power of God. I perceive that your problem is not really with these pastors as you will have us believe. It is outright disbelief in God's word and his miracle working power. I said this so that true christians on this thread should beware of u. As for giving to the poor, its our lifestyle. We really do not need your encouragement on that.

I hate it when people arrogate the power of God to themselves. Leave God to judge who is His or not. Even you talking about other Pastors, do you know God's opinion about you on other matters?

when I was led to Christ, there was no clause about becoming rich or wealthy. the point was that if I became born-again, i would go to heaven, and while here on Earth, God would look after me because He was my father. I must agree with a post that said Christ spoke a lot about prosperity and good health, but when that becomes the emphasis, the message of salvation is lost. Christ didn't come to this world to give men wealth; He came to give men life. Personally, I want to be a very rich Christian, because I believe in the law of influence, but that will not be the focus of my Christianity. I would rather seek the Kingdom of God, seek His will and desires for me, serve Him as best as i can, and then sit back and watch Him bless me and those around me through me.

alabiyemmy:

I hate it when people arrogate the power of God to themselves. Leave God to judge who is His or not. Even you talking about other Pastors, do you know God's opinion about you on other matters?

How can u hate when people say the truth about others, some of this pators are theives, they steal from people based on their ignorance and u dont want people to talk about it, knowledge is power, when people know that some of these people are stealing from them they will stop giving them money and use it for something else.

You no longer hear pastors preach about holiness and rigteousness these days all u hear is give and it shall be given unto u, people have been giving and nothing has been happening, the change is not coming into the peoples lives, every sunday people are giving but nigeria and nigerians are moving backwards, this just goes to tell us that we should be christians and serve God cos we want to do so not because some pastors are telling us its one of the surest ways to get out of poverty.

Prosperity is not measured by financial wealth or monetary net-worth.

You can prosper in your health also!

Definition: - Prosperity is the condition of being successful or thriving;
Also known as (aka) - success, plenty, ease, well-being, good times, good fortune, the good life

The bible says: I desire that you prosper and be in health even as your soul(your mind) prospers!

Prosperity gospel is from the darkest pits of hell and it is the latest weapon being used by the devil and his disciples to lead christians away from the true purpose of the faith.

The problem is not the pastors. The problem is you. How come you are always falling into the hands of thieves and robbers. Don't you have the Holy ghost leading and guiding you?
Any pastor that will ask members to give for the furtherance of the gospel and then convert the money for personal use is digging his own grave. It will not be long before he dies.
There is a Spirit that sanctifies offerings brought into the house of God. I don't know about u but where I worship, the pastors are the first and manytimes, the biggest givers.