I couldn't help but muse at this your post LordAdam. I sense hatred of Christ and Christianity. I see a guy wishing for a strong and potent excuse to validate the non existence of God and Christianity. The only thread of link to spiritual sanity is your conscience which has not made you turn 100% Atheistic.

Why this hatred? ..against the One who says Love everyone including those who hate you...against Him who says let your yes be yes and your no no...?

LordAdam:


I am a theist. A non-religious theist or agnostic theist if you will. Here is the thing. The spiritual is NOT logical. It is DEEPLY ILLOGICAL.

Is it possible to be a Theist and still see the spiritual illogical? For the existence of God itself is not more important to the Theists than the concept of the kingdom of God. If God really does have a kingdom, this is the beginning of the logical construct of spirituality.

LordAdam:

Paranormal events have nothing to do with Christianity. Our dibias performed magic in the past. They still do. Even your supposed holy book contend that Moses was challenged by the sorcerers in Pharaoh's court. Whether you choose to believe the story of him besting them, the fact is that they were able to do what Moses did. Eroding whatever peculiarity you think of supposedly Christian or Judaist powers.

My post was directed at Atheists and as such, it is not logical to present the Christian religious view point as a defence or proof of God. I have not even defended any religion in my posts. I have used only scientific, phyllosophical and logical thesis to attempt to proof the existence of a CREATOR who is God.

My post which you quoted was directed at AntiParticle who happens to be a Physicists just like me. You can read our earlier posts. I was NOT proving the exclusiveness of the paranormals to Christians. I was telling him of the fact that as a Christian, I Had experienced some few paranormal experiences.

The supernatural is not exclusive to Christianity. That is a known fact: Magic, NDEs, Telepathy etc exist and it is pointless denying their reality.

LordAdam:

The Dalai Lamas for a long time have had memories of older dalai lamas that they neither met nor knew.

There are plenty of concepts that are not thoroughly understood.

In the past, magicians and sorcerers used magic mirrors to communicate with each other. Today, we use mobile phones.

Like I stated. The supernatural is not exclusive to Christianity nor is it a proof of Christianity. If you understandb a little about the spiritual rhelms, you will understand that there exist at least two parallel spiritual kingdoms here on earth. That of the Creator God (constructive) and that of the Imposture (destructive). Both give just enough incentive for men to choose and follow them. So, there are many non Christian paranormal phenomenon in existence.

LordAdam:

Placebos in many cases work just as effectively as potent drugs. Belief is a strong force.

Placebos! LOL. The spiritual experience christian or non christian is real. That is the essence of Theism.

LordAdam:

You may choose to believe that everything paranormal revolves around Christianity. You are wrong. Paranormal events have happened way before Christianity was a thing. Even before Abraham made his supposed covenant.

I state again! You are wrong. Once again, the paranormal does NOT revolve only around Christianity!

LordAdam:

Don't bring the paranormal as proof of Theism. It says nothing. Magic and Science are so close, the only difference may actually be the name. Voices and images in form of radio waves are around you. You only need an antenna to pick these waves and convert them to forms we can interact with.

The paranormal is actually a proof of Theism.
The paranormal including magic is NOT science. Every Atheist will attest to that! If it can not be physically derived or quantified then it can not be science.

LordAdam:

Machines can produce images of the inside of your body, diagnosing your condition within minutes. Wake up a 300-yr old human and he would call that magic.



Some humans (people with tetrachromacy) can see 100 times more colors than the average person. Likewise, it is within the ambit of logic that some people may be able to notice energies or visualize events that have happened in time past (your so called prophets and seers who may actually be talented mentalists).

As long as their source is not physical, it cannot be science and it dwells in the rhelm of spirits and the supernatural.

LordAdam:

This is absurd. Atheists are better at admitting that they have limitations in knowledge, understanding, wisdom, and ability. Theists are infamous for using impossible phrases like "There is nothing my God cannot do," "The Bible holds all the answers," "[Insert name of religious leader here] is infallible, he can never be wrong."

Sorry Bro. Your claim is highly subjective.
Theists recognise their limitations and they ascribe the unknown and the supernatural to God.
Atheists feel they know ALL the answers and ONE of it is the CONCLUSION that there is NO GOD.

Checkout the debate:
https://www.nairaland.com/3273318/does-atheist-soul

LordAdam:

Atheists accept the current limits of science and knowledge. In fact, they dedicate their time to building on current knowledge to push existing limits.

You are wrong again. I am a Physicist by training. Physics has given me a scientific bases for the impossibility of creation without a designer: God!

Atheists assume the infallibility of Science and the limitless capability of science.

Theists on the other hand believe the opposite. When science breaks down, theists resort to God.

LordAdam:

People see what they want to see. Religion leads people to mental slavery. Philosophy provides a neutral ground for people to contend their beliefs. So far, theists have been unable to prove compellingly that God exists.

Your tone is full of hatred! Why?
I have not advocated religion. Religion is what men do to be in favour of their God. If you have a God, you must surely have a religion.

LordAdam:

Don't castigate a person for not understanding the concept of God, when all they hear about God are fairy tales, absurd projections (like male and female species of all animals entering an ark--what about the billions of micro-organisms, how was Noah able to tell them apart or even preserve them), or inhumane instructions (ordering the killing of women and children without a moment's thought).

Please read my other posts and you can see that I am your friend. Let's agree that not all human behaviours make complete logical sense.

LordAdam:

Jesus preached love but condoned slavery. We all say racism is evil, but the bible condones it. Calling an ethnic group Jews, and others Gentiles that are second fiddle in God's plans. The bible opines that God would always protect his own, yet he let millions of Christians die under Emperor Nero, and many Protestants during the Spanish Inquisition.

I guess your anger is directed mainly at the Bible and Christianity. We can pick a topic at a time and discuss. Maybe there are some background information you are yet to know.

LordAdam:

It's hard to make a case for a God with such tendencies.

Atheists bring sanity to a world where people are too lazy to ask questions. Too willful to accept that "because my Bible says so, then it is true." The same Bible that says Jesus is God in one verse, but says Jesus is the son of God in another verse. And to compound everything, the religious elite and theologians, champions in the art of hoodwinking, coined a term that doesn't even appear in the Bible to describe it--the Holy Trinity.

In debating Atheists, I do not use theological grammar. I speak the language of Science, Logics and Phyllosophy. Pls check my other posts. I understand spiritual things even at intellectual levels so, if you have any specific question, direct them to me one at a time.

LordAdam:

And when you try to understand the flawed concept and it isn't making any sense, they switch to the default answer that cages gullible minds--God works in mysterious ways, or the ways of God cannot be understood by ordinary mortal beings. Really?!

Mary and Joseph--the parents of Jesus--lived and died as Judaists. They weren't Christians.

Do you also hate God? Are you into self worship? Let's pick issues one at a time. If you hate Christians this much, I wonder what you will do to a Book Haram Insurgent or A Rapist or An Armed Robber.

LordAdam:

If you have to use Philosophy to prove God exists, don't bring paranormal to the discussion. Because the paranormal is not logical to begin with. Last I checked, Philosophy revolves around Logic.

-Lord

check out :
https://www.nairaland.com/3244279/how-atheists-explain-away-paranormal

With a lot of patience, I have tried to answer you. So please let's go at this issues one at a time.

Even though, I see a lot of mixups of your identity in your post, I wish that you ask me all the theological q questions one by one before you finally join them. Not everything about life is physical!

shadeyinka:
I couldn't help but muse at this your post LordAdam. I sense hatred of Christ and Christianity. I see a guy wishing for a strong and potent excuse to validate the non existence of God and Christianity. The only thread of link to spiritual sanity is your conscience which has not made you turn 100% Atheistic.

Why this hatred? ..against the One who says Love everyone including those who hate you...against Him who says let your yes be yes and your no no...?

What you sense is not hatred. It is disgust.

Is it possible to be a Theist and still see the spiritual illogical? For the existence of God itself is not more important to the Theists than the concept of the kingdom of God. If God really does have a kingdom, this is the beginning of the logical construct of spirituality.

There is nothing logical about the spiritual. That you think otherwise is bewildering. Purgatory, number of heavens or hell (depending on your theological background), constant war between good and evil... All of those stuff are many things but logical.

My post was directed at Atheists and as such, it is not logical to present the Christian religious view point as a defence or proof of God. I have not even defended any religion in my posts. I have used only scientific, phyllosophical and logical thesis to attempt to proof the existence of a CREATOR who is God.

My post which you quoted was directed at AntiParticle who happens to be a Physicists just like me. You can read our earlier posts. I was NOT proving the exclusiveness of the paranormals to Christians. I was telling him of the fact that as a Christian, I Had experienced some few paranormal experiences.

The supernatural is not exclusive to Christianity. That is a known fact: Magic, NDEs, Telepathy etc exist and it is pointless denying their reality.

It's good we have a consensus on this one.

Sorry Bro. Your claim is highly subjective.
Theists recognise their limitations and they ascribe the unknown and the supernatural to God.
Atheists feel they know ALL the answers and ONE of it is the CONCLUSION that there is NO GOD.

Checkout the debate:
https://www.nairaland.com/3273318/does-atheist-soul



You are wrong again. I am a Physicist by training. Physics has given me a scientific bases for the impossibility of creation without a designer: God!

Atheists assume the infallibility of Science and the limitless capability of science.

Theists on the other hand believe the opposite. When science breaks down, theists resort to God.

You think I am being subjective, but you aren't? Atheists look to science to explain concepts, because science is the poster child of logic.

I'll give you an example. You are a physicist, so you'll know mainstream science posit that space travel at the speed of light is, well, impossible. Still, in unpopular circles, other scientists of varying disciplines are exploring avenues, such as wormholes or warping space time, to make that impossible possible.

Some of Newton's laws have been rewritten. That is the beauty of science. When new observations debunk old hypothesis, there is no holdup. There is only an attempt to understand the known world around us using the LIMITED resources at our disposal.

Theist religious hullabaloo is the opposite of that. They rely on unverified private hallucinations or whatever (I talked to God last night, A still voice ministered unto me; or some other creative balderdash) to explain away natural occurrences.

Your tone is full of hatred! Why?
I have not advocated religion. Religion is what men do to be in favour of their God. If you have a God, you must surely have a religion.

This is why I wouldn't move forward with this conversation. That one's belief in God automatically means following a certain religion. That's so wrong in ways you can't even describe.

If you think so, we shouldn't be having a conversation. It's just not worth it.

Maybe you need to read more. I'd advise you do that more than making illogical conclusions.

There are Christian Atheists for crying out loud. Read more about that for a start, then make your way into the wide spectrum that is theism. When you are done with theism, move on to Deism, and then Atheism. When you are done, I guarantee that you wouldn't have as much misconceptions as you have now.

I'd have wanted to ground you on why Theism and Religion are very different, but I'll rather you read about it. You'll learn more and probably find out that some of the "truths" you hold are poorly conceptualized aberrations. My time is better spent doing something else.

I guess your anger is directed mainly at the Bible and Christianity. We can pick a topic at a time and discuss. Maybe there are some background information you are yet to know.

My disgust revolves around religion. Atheists are right that the gods most if not all religions sell as the real deal do not exist. They are conjectures of the human mind. I would hound a Muslim almost as much as I would a Christian, or a Buddhist.

Do you also hate God? Are you into self worship? Let's pick issues one at a time. If you hate Christians this much, I wonder what you will do to a Book Haram Insurgent or A Rapist or An Armed Robber.

I can't hate what I don't understand completely. Some can, not me. And I'm fairly certain, your God is not the God I believe in. There are at least 1000 Christian Gods for the numerous doctrines in Christianity. I'm not sure where the Christian God who gave Pope Innocent IV the order to issue a papal bull entitled Ad extirpanda, which authorized the limited use of torture by inquisitors (In Catholicism, the Pope is the Vicar of Christ--Mouthpiece of God on earth) is right now.

Even though, I see a lot of mixups of your identity in your post, I wish that you ask me all the theological q questions one by one before you finally join them. Not everything about life is physical!

I'm not having a conversation about theology with you. I find that discussing about solving the world's concrete problems today is far more rewarding than discussing about a God those who claim to know God can't even decide on who he/she/it really is.

Religion is a concrete problem. Unfortunately, over 5 billion people think otherwise, so I'd rather shift my gaze to problems mankind can actually change at this time, like reducing world hunger, promoting secularity, securing rights of minorities, et cetera.

I replied you initially to clear up some misconceptions I sensed you were passing off as true statements. Only to find out that you have an unlimited trove of those misconceptions.

All the best.

-Lord

[quote author=JackBizzle post=48016402]KingEbukaNaija and Winner01 are the greatest sources for misinformation about atheism/secularism/irreligion.

I choose to correct them not to win arguments over them but to try and at least, save a poor soul from believing the nonsense that these guys spew. I have seen how Nigerians go and embarrass themselves abroad because they can not handle the thought of non-religious people. This is a time when pounds and dollars matter- and I dont want to see a Nigerian doctor, nurse, accountant etc lose their job because they said nonsense about a non-religious client.

If a Healthcare or ANY Professional spoke nonsense about ANYONE, they SHOULD lose their job.

Or do we want "NONSENSE-SPEAKERS" staffing our infrastructure?

I am at this time suffering from Religious Healthcare Professionals apparently trying to LITERALLY ASSASSINATE me- because I would not join their churches.

This is a standard procedure by undercover Roman Catholics.

[See: DOUBLECROSS, by Jack T. Chick.]

Without further ado-

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1)

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What kind of special dunce believes that atheist families give rise to muslim terrorists? 80 percent? So atheist fathers now teach islam to kids? Or children from atheist homes covert to islam at an alarming rate?

I don't know who CPDSI are, but if they came up with such a figure, there was surely a basis for it.

When you know who the militants are, and you investigate their backgrounds, what you find, you find.

IT MAKES SENSE that Muslim Radicals should manage to easily convert children forced into Atheism from Traditional Roman Catholicism.

There would be ways to exploit that sort of Psychological Background.

The French are a Warrior Race, and I know firsthand, from growing up in England, how the Oyinbos romanticize War, from an early age, so that their children will grow up with the desire to fight in a great war somewhere, kill lots of people, and win lots of medals for bravery.

This will make sense to many Nigerians more than others. We have Tribes that think like that, and others that don't.

Lies lies lies with a mix of silliness. Winner01, stop taking oshogbo weed.

I find no reason to doubt the alleged statistics.

Where else would they recruit French Jihadists from?

A legitimate line of attack should be the NUMBER OF JIHADISTS BEING TALKED ABOUT.

If, say, TEN JIHADHISTS were identified, and EIGHT of them were found to be from Atheistic homes, the statistic would be legitimate, but would not be honest proof of anything.

You should have found that out- unless maybe that figure embarrasses you?

http://www.ansamed.info/ansamed/en/news/sections/generalnews/2014/11/18/france-jihadists-mostly-from-middle-class-atheist-families_3b4b742e-0faf-4dda-a774-0be70217769d.html

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a) Einstein is not the authority on atheism.
b) Einstein was talking about FANATICAL atheist and not just atheist. He calls himself an agnostic- which ironically is still an atheist.
c) Einstein did not believe in the christian God.

(1) Albert Einstein is the authority on his own observations on Atheism.

(2) Is there any such thing as an Atheist who is not a fanatic?

An "AGNOSTIC" is not the same thing as an "ATHEIST." That is what a FANATIC would say.

AGNOSTICS believe that a "GOD" might maybe exist, and they might find evidence of that one day.

ATHEISTS believe that no God could possibly exist, and that no evidence for one's existence can possibly exist, and reject any evidence presented to them even with little or no consideration.

(3) Why don't you tell us which God he DID believe in, then?

Is it not so that you can play on the ignorance of those who do not know that he was a JEW?

One of the WHITE people trying to HIJACK the BLACK HEBREW Legacy?

You cannot be a JEW, unless your MOTHER was Jewish.

It emerges that he did not do his BAR MITZVAH, and was stigmatized because of it.

http://www.jewishpress.com/indepth/front-page/einsteins-secret-spark/2008/11/12/

Nonetheless, he was esteemed Jewish enough that ADOLF HITLER famously did not want him on his team- therefore he lost the Secret of Atomic Power. (It is alleged, however, that Albert Einstein's alleged Scientific Genius is all hype, and that his work for which he is most famous, was plagiarized.)

[See: THE SALE AND MANUFACTURE OF SAINT EINSTEIN, by Christopher Jon Bjerkenes.]

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3)

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a) Atheists do not believe in the bible because it contains a lot of falsehoods (eg God changing between old and new testament)
b) The bible is written by men but claimed to be from God. That is the issue
c) The science textbooks are written by men but (unlike the bible) they do not claim to be infallible and divine
d) Nice strawman!

(1) God did not change between the Old Testament and the New Testament.

That is a very unintelligent claim.

The Old Testament was about establishing the Nation of Israel to be a Light to the Nations, teaching them how to find God.

The inhabitants of Canaan were expelled for their Sins by the descendants of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob as per God's Covenant with Abraham.

Therefore, God was very concerned with the Security of the Land of Israel, and ordered the killing of Expansionist and Terrorist Invaders.

The New Testament is the implementation of the next phase of that Plan.

Those Israelites willing to participate in the spread of The Gospel were Commanded to leave Israel, whereas their forefathers were Commanded to fight to stay. The Gospel Messengers were not authorized to kill anyone, but rather gave up their own lives than resort to violence, and forfeit their own Souls.

Where was there a change in GOD?

Is not this just another Fanatical Atheist Falsehood?

(2) Of course THE BIBLE is written by men- who else should have written It?

It was written by men as a guide to DIRECT CONTACT WITH GOD.

Atheists refuse to follow Its instructions, and therefore achieve no contact with God- and then claim that God does not exist.

The people in The Bible who encountered God did so because they followed His Instructions.

How do you expect anything to work for you, without following instructions?

Before someone can pursue a Scientific, Technical, or Artistic Career, and be trusted as an Authority, they should have had to have SIX YEARS of PRIMARY EDUCATION, FIVE years of SECONDARY Education, THREE TO FIVE years of COLLEGE or UNIVERSITY.

Atheists want to understand THE KINGDOM OF GOD without studying ANYTHING RELEVANT!

How does THAT make sense?

(3) The Science and other Textbooks are written by men, who claim to have special Knowledge, and are INFALLIBLE.

Show us the example of ANY Science or other Textbook that does not claim to be INFALLIBLE!

If you DARE challenge the AUTHORITY of TEXTBOOKS, you are DENOUNCED as a HERETIC, a LIAR, a MADMAN, even a CRIMINAL.

For example, the CHEMISTRY and PHYSICS TEXTBOOKS say that in ELECTROLYSIS you cannot extract more energy from the recombination of Electrolysis Products than was used to separate them.

In 1998, an American named STANLEY MEYER publicly disproved that theory, demonstrating a PATENT he had spent TEN YEARS fighting to have recognized, by using ELECTROLYZED WATER to power a CAR. The Electrolytic Technique- which depended upon using ALTERNATING CURRENT instead of DIRECT CURRENT, which is the TEXTBOOK method- was developed by a Bulgarian named YULL BROWN.

Within minutes of his successful demonstration, the inventor was assassinated via poison (to taste his success).

YULL BROWN was also murdered the same year, according to his daughter.

This is how far the Oyinbos go to protect the "INFALLIBILITY" of their textbooks!

Another Example: You could not be anyone in Astronomy, if you did nit believe that THE PLANET MARS had CANALS on it.

However, after they had sent up like NINE SATELLITES, NASA finally admitted that there were no canals on Mars- despite all the Astronomers who had said that there were.

Another Example: Natural History Textbooks claimed that Modern Man evolved from "Prehistoric Men," with "reconstructed images" thereof, which, when one got old enough to investigate, were found to have been assembled from SCRAPS OF BONE- and several of them were PROVEN FAKES. (e.g. PILTDOWN MAN.)

Textbooks have been alleged to carry images of these fakes even after they have been debunked.

(4) This cannot be dismissed as a "STRAWMAN."

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a) No one is arguing for the state to decide morality. A lot of atheists are secular humanists- humanist believe that morality should be reasoned out.
b) Slavery, holocaust and segregation were all done by religious people with religious presidents. Slavery and the holocaust were done with christian beliefs. Hitler believed that he was doing Gods work and the slave owners in America defended the slavery with the bible.
c) Nice strawman

===================================================

(1) States always dictate Morality.

(You have heard of SHARIAH LAW, right?)

(2) These are examples of the "State deciding Morality."

Which you said is not happening.

Hasn't our state decided that HOMOSEXUALITY is still a crime- despite the State of America telling us that we had no right to decide that?

Another example of a Fanatical Atheist playing on our ignorance.

What is your point supposed to be?

The Slavery of America and Europe was explicitly forbidden in The Bible.

. EXODUS 21:16.

16. "And he that stealeth a man,
and selleth him,
or if he be found in his hand,
he shall surely be put to death.”

They didn't care about THE BIBLE.

The people who FREED THE SLAVES cared about The Bible.

(3) Saying something is a "Strawman" does not make it a Strawman.

5)

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a) Christians who believe in hell also torture and kill people. Christianity does not stop people from being evil.
b) People can be good with or without religion
c) There are christians who don't believe in hell. So even if this clown of a priest is right, he still indicts christianity with his anti atheist claim
d) People should do good for goodness sake. If you are only good because of rewards, then you are just an azz-licker

(1) CHRISTIANS who do to others what they would not like done to them know that GOD HAS REJECTED THEM, and they HAVE lost their Souls.

The "Christianity" that does not stop people from being Evil is not Christianity, and is irrelevant.

Do you judge a profession by the people who have failed at it?

Do you claim that CARPENTRY is FAKE, because of the Fake Carpenters who don't know their job?

That CARS are FAKE, because of the ones that BROKE DOWN?

The whole idea of CHRISTIANITY was that people STOP BEING EVIL.

. MATTHEW 7:12-29.

12. "Therefore all things
whatsoever ye would
that men should do to you,
do ye even so to them:
for this is The Law and The Prophets.
13. "Enter ye in at the Strait Gate:
for Wide is the Gate, and Broad is the Way,
that leadeth to Destruction,
and many there be which go in thereat:
14. "Because Strait is the Gate,
and Narrow is The Way,
which leadeth unto Life,
and few there be that find it.
15. "Beware of False Prophets,
which come to you in sheep's clothing,
but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
16. "Ye shall know them by their Fruits.
Do men gather grapes of thorns,
or figs of thistles?
17. "Even so every good tree
bringeth forth Good Fruit;
but a corrupt tree bringeth forth Evil Fruit.
18. "A Good Tree cannot bring forth Evil Fruit,
neither can a Corrupt Tree bring forth Good Fruit.
19. "Every Tree that bringeth not forth Good Fruit
is hewn down,
and cast into The Fire.
20. "Wherefore by their Fruits ye shall know them.
21. "Not every one
that saith unto me, 'Lord, Lord,'
shall enter into
The Kingdom of Heaven;
but he that doeth The Will of my Father
Which is in Heaven.
22. "Many will say to me in That Day,

'LORD, LORD, HAVE WE NOT
PROPHESIED IN THY NAME?
AND IN THY NAME
HAVE CAST OUT DEVILS?
AND IN THY NAME
DONE MANY WONDERFUL WORKS?'

23. "And then will I profess unto them,

'I NEVER KNEW YOU:
DEPART FROM ME,
YE THAT WORK INIQUITY.'

24. "Therefore whosoever heareth
these Sayings of mine,
and doeth them,
I will liken him unto a Wise Man,
which built his House upon a Rock:
25. "And the rain descended,
and the floods came,
and the winds blew,
and beat upon that House;
and it Fell not:
for it was founded upon a Rock.
26. "And every one
that heareth these Sayings of mine,
and doeth them not,
shall be likened unto a Foolish Man,
which built his house upon the Sand:
27. "And the rain descended,
and the floods came,
and the winds blew,
and beat upon that House;
and it Fell:
and Great was The Fall of it."
28. And it came to pass,
when Jesus had ended these Sayings,
the People were astonished at his Doctrine:
29. For he Taught them
as One having Authority,
and not as the scribes.

A REAL CHRISTIAN CARES ABOUT WHAT CHRIST WILL DO TO THEM AT JUDGMENT DAY.

Those who just USE the Name of Christ for POLITICAL, FINANCIAL, and other SOCIAL GAIN have LOST THEIR SOULS.

They don't have GOD!

more coming...................


cc...winner01, kingebukanaija, hahn, hopefullandlord etc

Use the TOILET next time, please?