noetic2:

why dont u find out.

1. Christianity is all about the RELATIONSHIP . . . , and it is stated all over the NT. . . . just pick up a bible.

2. Relationship is the acknowledgement and acceptance of Jesus as LORD and SAVIOUR. . , with the inherent power to be the son of God , to inherit eternity. . .and to be LED by the HOLY SPIRIT, . . .thats what relationship with God means.

Can you show us in the NT where a Relationship with God is mentioned. References please would be nice.

2. Relationship is the acknowledgement and acceptance of Jesus as LORD and SAVIOUR. . , with the inherent power to be the son of God , to inherit eternity. . .and to be LED by the HOLY SPIRIT, . . .thats what relationship with God means.

On this definition, muslim also have a relationship with Allah, as in:


Relationship is the acknowledgement and acceptance of Mohammed as TRUE and ONLY Prophet of God. . , with the inherent power to be the prophet of God , to inherit eternity.

huxley:


Can you show us in the NT where a Relationship with God is mentioned. References please would be nice.

ur ignorance is appalling. . , . , . how many verses do u want?

a. mathew 4:17, 5:13-16, 5:45, 6:9-14, 6:19-21, 6:33, 7:17-29,
b. John 1:12-14
c. romans 8:14

On this definition, muslim also have a relationship with Allah, as in:


Relationship is the acknowledgement and acceptance of Mohammed as TRUE and ONLY Prophet of God. . , with the inherent power to be the prophet of God , to inherit eternity.

a. where is this stated in the koran?

b. why are u desperately trying to use islam to make a nihilant point.

noetic2:

your ignorance is appalling. . , . , . how many verses do u want?

a. mathew 4:17, 5:13-16, 5:45, 6:9-14, 6:19-21, 6:33, 7:17-29,
b. John 1:12-14
c. romans 8:14


a. where is this stated in the koran?

b. why are u desperately trying to use islam to make a nihilant point.

mathew 4:17 - From that time on Jesus began to preach, "Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is near."

Matthew 5: 13"You are the salt of the earth. But if the salt loses its saltiness, how can it be made salty again? It is no longer good for anything, except to be thrown out and trampled by men. 14"You are the light of the world. A city on a hill cannot be hidden. 15Neither do people light a lamp and put it under a bowl. Instead they put it on its stand, and it gives light to everyone in the house. 16In the same way, let your light shine before men, that they may see your good deeds and praise your Father in heaven.

45that you may be sons of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. 46If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? 47And if you greet only your brothers, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? 48Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.


I have checked some of these verses and nowhere do I see the word RELATIONSHIP or its implication under your definition of:

Relationship is the acknowledgement and acceptance of Jesus as LORD and SAVIOUR. . , with the inherent power to be the son of God , to inherit eternity. . .and to be LED by the HOLY SPIRIT, . . .thats what relationship with God means.


Can you post the details of a specific verse(s) that satisfy this definition?

huxley:



mathew 4:17 - From that time on Jesus began to preach, "Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is near."

Matthew 5: 13"You are the salt of the earth. But if the salt loses its saltiness, how can it be made salty again? It is no longer good for anything, except to be thrown out and trampled by men. 14"You are the light of the world. A city on a hill cannot be hidden. 15Neither do people light a lamp and put it under a bowl. Instead they put it on its stand, and it gives light to everyone in the house. 16In the same way, let your light shine before men, that they may see your good deeds and praise your Father in heaven.

45that you may be sons of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. 46If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? 47And if you greet only your brothers, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? 48Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.


I have checked some of these verses and nowhere do I see the word RELATIONSHIP or its implication under your definition of:

Relationship is the acknowledgement and acceptance of Jesus as LORD and SAVIOUR. . , with the inherent power to be the son of God , to inherit eternity. . .and to be LED by the HOLY SPIRIT, . . .thats what relationship with God means.


Can you post the details of a specific verse(s) that satisfy this definition?

1. I thought u could unravel the concept. . . I was wrong, . . , but it is not atomic science. , . . or is it?

There are key elements of the relationship definition. . they are
a. acceptance of Jesus as Lord and saviour. , . John 3:16
b. power to become son of God , . John 1:12
c. establishment of God's kingdom . . . .mathew 4:17
d. being led by the spirit . . . , romans 8:14
e. inheriting eternity with God . . . mathew
f. being God's ambassador on earth. . . . mathew 5:13-16

2. Ech of the verses I listed in my last post butress the fact that Christ came to establish a relationship with humans. . . . . .all u have to do is to use a little thinking. . .is that a hard job?

noetic2:

1. I thought u could unravel the concept. . . I was wrong, . . , but it is not atomic science. , . . or is it?

There are key elements of the relationship definition. . they are
a. acceptance of Jesus as Lord and saviour. , . John 3:16
b. power to become son of God , . John 1:12
c. establishment of God's kingdom . . . .mathew 4:17
d. being led by the spirit . . . , romans 8:14
e. inheriting eternity with God . . . mathew
f. being God's ambassador on earth. . . . mathew 5:13-16

2. Ech of the verses I listed in my last post butress the fact that Christ came to establish a relationship with humans. . . . . .all u have to do is to use a little thinking. . .is that a hard job?

OK, be that as it may. If this is what you call a Relationship with God/Jesus, please yourself.

But I contend that the Muslim also claims to have a relationship with Allah/Mohammed under his own definition of "Relationship". If the Muslim did not have a relationship with Allah/Mohammed then what are they doing venerating, worshiping, honouring him? In the muslim view, they have a relationship with Allah/MO, however different a definition this might be.


So is your contention that Because you have a RELATIONSHIP with Jesus/God your position is TRUE and the Muslim who has got a relationship with God is wrong? Is the truth of the matter founded on who has a relationship with whom?

1. You made a case for "transformation" . . .but we both established that islamic transformation is not a POSITIVE one . . .as it does NOT conform with allah's commandments.

2. I NEVER said a muslim is wrong by having a relationship with "God". . . . all that we both did was to establish that an islamic transformation is not the same as a born-again transformation. . . . . .they are two completely different things.

3. Yes. . , the crux of the matter is RELATIONSHIP. . . . .with God through Jesus Christ. . , . .

noetic2:

1. You made a case for "transformation" . . .but we both established that islamic transformation is not a POSITIVE one . . .as it does NOT conform with allah's commandments.

2. I NEVER said a muslim is wrong by having a relationship with "God". . . . all that we both did was to establish that an islamic transformation is not the same as a born-again transformation. . . . . .they are two completely different things.

3. Yes. . , the crux of the matter is RELATIONSHIP. . . . .with God through Jesus Christ. . , . .

No, we did not establish that Christian transformation is positive while islamic is not. Take for instance this injunction from Jesus:

"Do not think that I came to bring peace on the earth; I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I came to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law; and a man’s enemies will be the members of his household. He who loves father or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me; and he who loves son or daughter more than Me is not worthy of Me. And he who does not take his cross and follow after Me is not worthy of Me. He who has found his life will lose it, and he who has lost his life for My sake will find it." (Matthew 10:34-39 NASB)


Do you live your life by this life-transforming injunction of Jesus? If not why not?


I put it to you that you do not follow most of the injunction of Jesus? Which of these do you, as a person with a relationship with Jesus, do you follow:

1) Take no care of tomorrow

2) Turn the other cheek

3) If a man takes your property, give him something else

4) Abandon your family for the sake of Jesus

5) Do not defend yourself against an aggressor.

How could you call yourself a Christian and claim a relationship with him when you do not keep some of his core teachings?

huxley:

No, we did not establish that Christian transformation is positive while islamic is not. Take for instance this injunction from Jesus:

"Do not think that I came to bring peace on the earth; I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I came to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law; and a man’s enemies will be the members of his household. He who loves father or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me; and he who loves son or daughter more than Me is not worthy of Me. And he who does not take his cross and follow after Me is not worthy of Me. He who has found his life will lose it, and he who has lost his life for My sake will find it." (Matthew 10:34-39 NASB)


Do you live your life by this life-transforming injunction of Jesus? If not why not?


I put it to you that you do not follow most of the injunction of Jesus? Which of these do you, as a person with a relationship with Jesus, do you follow:

1) Take no care of tomorrow

2) Turn the other cheek

3) If a man takes your property, give him something else

4) Abandon your family for the sake of Jesus

5) Do not defend yourself against an aggressor.

How could you call yourself a Christian and claim a relationship with him when you do not keep some of his core teachings?

noetic2:

1. You made a case for "transformation" . . .but we both established that islamic transformation is not a POSITIVE one . . .as it does NOT conform with allah's commandments.

2. I NEVER said a muslim is wrong by having a relationship with "God". . . . all that we both did was to establish that an islamic transformation is not the same as a born-again transformation. . . . . .they are two completely different things.

3. Yes. . , the crux of the matter is RELATIONSHIP. . . . .with God through Jesus Christ. . , . .

In fact, you claim to have a RELATIONSHIP with God thru Jesus - Can you tell me the ways in which your life has changed uniquely because of that RELATIONSHIP, that could not have happened otherwise?

As far as I know, there is NOT a single moral guiding principle that is unique and original to Jesus by which Christians govern their lives. Everything that Jesus said that is POSITIVE had been said and practised for millenia before Jesus. Where Jesus was unique and original, he said some of the most vile and reprehensible things, like;

1) Eternal Punishment in Hell - This is original to Jesus

2) The Abondonment of Worldly concerns

etc, etc,

So how can you be proud to have a RELATIONSHIP with such a nasty and reprehensible individual?

huxley:

No,   we did not establish that Christian transformation is positive while islamic is not.  Take for instance this injunction from Jesus:

Really?   are u on another planet?

"Do not think that I came to bring peace on the earth; I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I came to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law; and a man’s enemies will be the members of his household. He who loves father or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me; and he who loves son or daughter more than Me is not worthy of Me. And he who does not take his cross and follow after Me is not worthy of Me. He who has found his life will lose it, and he who has lost his life for My sake will find it." (Matthew 10:34-39 NASB)


Do you live your life by this life-transforming injunction of Jesus?   If not why not?

I can safely state at this point that u are an unfortunate and ill-informed IGNORAMUS. . . .who has an issue with objective reasoning.
is the above the only commandments of Jesus?. . , the sword Jesus brought, who did He kill with it? why did ur Christian parents not kill u with that sword?
ur folly is legendary  

I put it to you that you do not follow most of the injunction of Jesus?   Which of these do you, as a person with a relationship with Jesus, do you follow:

You are very wrong and off the mark

1)   Take no care of tomorrow

As a matter of fact I dont.
If u had been following this thread with full consciousness u would have seen where I emphatically stated that Jesus gave me a new and bigger vision and a direction. . . .so u tell me. . .why EXACTLY should I worry about the future?

2)   Turn the other cheek

In the name of all righteousness . . . . .I dont remember the last time I ever returned evil for evil

3)   If a man takes your property, give him something else

See answer 2 above

4)   Abandon your family for the sake of Jesus

My family has not stood in the way of my salvation. . .when they do. . . .they are gone

5)  Do not defend yourself against an aggressor.

The knowledge of Christ brings peace. . . . .I dont remeber having an aggressor. . . . .but the times I do, I normally hear a voice that says "HOLD UR PEACE". . . . .I hope this educates u.

How could you call yourself a Christian and claim a relationship with him when you do not keep some of his core teachings?

I keep all of them. , . , .


1. why dont u define islamic transformation u have been advocating and back each of it up with references to the Koran

huxley:

In fact, you claim to have a RELATIONSHIP with God thru Jesus - Can you tell me the ways in which your life has changed uniquely because of that RELATIONSHIP, that could not have happened otherwise?

Have u been following the thread at all?

As far as I know, there is NOT a single moral guiding principle that is unique and original to Jesus by which Christians govern their lives. Everything that Jesus said that is POSITIVE had been said and practised for millenia before Jesus. Where Jesus was unique and original, he said some of the most vile and reprehensible things, like;

1. The moral guiding principles u advocate. . . which of them has EVER influenced ur life and how?

2. what do u summarize the gospel of Jesus to mean?

1) Eternal Punishment in Hell - This is original to Jesus

so also did He promise eternal life to His followers. . . . . .why are u so bothered about hell?. . .is ur conscience indicting u?

2) The Abondonment of Worldly concerns

How EXACTLY is this reprehensible?

So how can you be proud to have a RELATIONSHIP with such a nasty and reprehensible individual?

1. u have not established what makes Jesus nasty and reprehensible. . . .or have u?

2. bitterness can be deduced from ur post. . . . .u were probably a miracle seeker who had no faith and felt disappointed. . . .what was ur ailment? was it HIV, leukaemia, STD's blindness or mental and intellectual bankruptcy?. . . . .tell me. . . what was ur disease?

3. Your resolve to ignore the malady of mohammed and allah in order to castigate the gospel of Christ reflects a nasty inability to be objective and also shows a huge amount of moral debauchedness. . . . . .so tell me, . . .what are ur guiding principles? which of them does allah conform to? and why is allah ur hero?

where is huxley?

noetic2:

Really?   are u on another planet?

I can safely state at this point that u are an unfortunate and ill-informed IGNORAMUS. . . .who has an issue with objective reasoning.
is the above the only commandments of Jesus?. . , the sword Jesus brought, who did He kill with it? why did your Christian parents not kill u with that sword?
your folly is legendary  

Where did we both agree that the transformation of the moslem is ONLY negative. The fact that you state that does not mean that we are both agreed on the issue.


I can see you are now resorting to insults as well. Is that a Christian thing? So Christianity did not transform you POSITIVELY after all?

noetic2:

You are very wrong and off the mark
As a matter of fact I dont.
If u had been following this thread with full consciousness u would have seen where I emphatically stated that Jesus gave me a new and bigger vision and a direction. . . .so u tell me. . .why EXACTLY should I worry about the future?

Do you to to school? Have you got a job and a bank account. Do you make investments plans for the future? If you do anything with a view for providing for and securing and caring for you future, then you are in violation of Jesus's injunction.


ALL Christians handle this by ignoring the bizarre and senseless injunctions of Jesus, which is the rational thing to do.

noetic2:

In the name of all righteousness . . . . .I dont remember the last time I ever returned evil for evil
See answer 2 above
My family has not stood in the way of my salvation. . .when they do. . . .they are gone
The knowledge of Christ brings peace. . . . .I dont remeber having an aggressor. . . . .but the times I do, I normally hear a voice that says "HOLD your PEACE". . . . .I hope this educates u.

Exactly, you rationalise like any "normal" person would, and ignore the silly stuff from the bible. The same way the moslems do - they ignore the silly stuff from the koran.

noetic2:

Have u been following the thread at all?

1. The moral guiding principles u advocate. . . which of them has EVER influenced your life and how?

2. what do u summarize the gospel of Jesus to mean?

so also did He promise eternal life to His followers. . . . . .why are u so bothered about hell?. . .is your conscience indicting u?
How EXACTLY is this reprehensible?

1. u have not established what makes Jesus nasty and reprehensible. . . .or have u?

2. bitterness can be deduced from your post. . . . .u were probably a miracle seeker who had no faith and felt disappointed. . . .what was your ailment? was it HIV, leukaemia, STD's blindness or mental and intellectual bankruptcy?. . . . .tell me. . . what was your disease?

3. Your resolve to ignore the malady of mohammed and allah in order to castigate the gospel of Christ reflects a nasty inability to be objective and also shows a huge amount of moral debauchedness. . . . . .so tell me, . . .what are your guiding principles? which of them does allah conform to? and why is allah your hero?

Has your life really been transformed? With all the[b] insults [/b]you hurl at your critics? Is that the life of a transformed man?



No I left Christian very very young - Before got to 13, I was no longer a Christian. So I spared myself the damage that you are suffering from.

No I am not ignoring the malady of Allah/Mo. Rather I am saying that your gods (Jesus, MO, Allah, etc, etc) are all in the same boat. You turn a blind eye to the misdeed and sayings of Jesus just as the muslim turns a blind eye to the misdeed and sayings of Mo.

huxley:

Where did we both agree that the transformation of the moslem is ONLY negative.  The fact that you state that does not mean that we are both agreed on the issue.

Really? so state ONE positive islamic transformation that conforms with the injunctions of allah.

I can see you are now resorting to insults as well.  Is that a Christian thing?   So Christianity did not transform you POSITIVELY after all?            

how EXACTLY  have I insulted u? can u read and comprehend at all?  when did "IGNORAMUS" become an insult? do u know the meaning?

Do you to to school?  Have you got a job and a bank account.  Do you make investments plans for the future?  If you do anything with a view for providing for and securing and caring for you future, then you are in violation of Jesus's injunction.

This is a FALSE assertion. . . . .

a. Go and read mathew 6:25-34. ,   . . . .

b. I go to school to get educated, be informed and be able to rationally form an opinion, logically conceive a thought and make intellectual analysis,  ,  . . .why did your Christian parents send u to school?

c. my job is a fulfilment of a craving for expertise. . . . .there is no where Jesus suggested that Christians should not work. ,  .Jesus was a carpenter,  . . . .were your christian parents idle?

d. I save money in my bank account,  . . . . .  . u come across as ridiculously ignorant.

ALL Christians handle this by ignoring the bizarre and senseless injunctions of Jesus, which is the rational thing to do

Exactly, you rationalise like any "normal" person would, and ignore the silly stuff from the bible.  The same way the moslems do - they ignore the silly stuff from the koran,

what? 

huxley:


Has your life really been transformed? With all the[b] insults [/b]you hurl at your critics? Is that the life of a transformed man?



No I left Christian very very young - Before got to 13, I was no longer a Christian. So I spared myself the damage that you are suffering from.

No I am not ignoring the malady of Allah/Mo. Rather I am saying that your gods (Jesus, MO, Allah, etc, etc) are all in the same boat. You turn a blind eye to the misdeed and sayings of Jesus just as the muslim turns a blind eye to the misdeed and sayings of Mo.

1. how EXACTLY have I insulted u? all I did was to ask a question. , . , . .

2. how does Jesus and Allah fit into the same boat?

noetic2:

1. how EXACTLY have I insulted u? all I did was to ask a question. ,  . ,  .  .

2. how does Jesus and Allah fit into the same boat?

They are both liars and impostors, amongst other things

what lie did Jesus tell? who did Jesus impersonate?

noetic2:

what lie did Jesus tell? who did Jesus impersonate?

Jesus said he was going to come back in the lifetime of his listeners. Has that happened?

are u not a listener to that same Gospel? has there been a demise in listeners?

who did Jesus impersonate?

noetic2:

are u not a listener to that same Gospel? has there been a demise in listeners?

No, I am not. Neither is our generation. See exactly what Jesus said:

Matthew 16: 24 -28;

24 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any [man] will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.

25 For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it.

26 For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?

27 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.

[size=14pt]28 Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.
[/size]

huxley:


No, I am not. Neither is our generation. See exactly what Jesus said:

Matthew 16: 24 -28;

24 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any [man] will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.

25 For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it.

26 For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?

27 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.

[size=14pt]28 Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.
[/size]

How is the above bold quote a lie?. . . . the gospel is still being preached. . . . . and my understanding of the rapture is that there would be living souls who would not taste death until the return of Christ. If however u are refering to the TIME of the return. . . . .u need to read mathew 24:36

how is Jesus an imposter?

Look at it again:

28 Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.

Who was Jesus addressing with this speech? People "standing here" and listening to him, about 2000 years ago. Why did Jesus lie, nah.

huxley:

Look at it again:

28 Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.

Who was Jesus addressing with this speech? People "standing here" and listening to him, about 2000 years ago. Why did Jesus lie, nah.

I believe ur question has been answered. . , , .who did Jesus impersonate?

noetic2:

I believe your question has been answered. . , , .who did Jesus impersonate?

The answer is wrong. Just because you say something does not make it right. If you had found similar discrepancy in the koran, you would be sticking it up the eyes of the muslims, wouldn't you? Christians just don't like being shown things like this. Well you have got to learn to take. It is there in you bible in several places - Jesus caugth lying multiple times.

huxley:

The answer is wrong. Just because you say something does not make it right. If you had found similar discrepancy in the koran, you would be sticking it up the eyes of the muslims, wouldn't you? Christians just don't like being shown things like this. Well you have got to learn to take. It is there in you bible in several places - Jesus caugth lying multiple times.

any instances? . . .why cant u state who Jesus impersonated? should I assume that u are both lying and deceptive?

noetic2:

any instances? . . .why cant u state who Jesus impersonated? should I assume that u are both lying and deceptive?

Jesus lied many times, including claiming to be at once time the Son of God and later God himself. So he impersonated the Son of God and God.

huxley:

Jesus lied many times, including claiming to be at once time the Son of God and later God himself. So he impersonated the Son of God and God.

whats the difference between statements A and B?

A. Son of God

B. God

where are ur 20 questions?

huxley:

Jesus lied many times, including claiming to be at once time the Son of God and later God himself. So he impersonated the Son of God and God.

It is sometimes funny to read such brainless assertions. Christ called Himself the "Son of God" in the bible and ended up being hunted by the Jews who CLEARLY understood that title to be nothing short of calling Himself GOD.

noetic2:

whats the difference between statements A and B?

A. Son of God

B. God

What is the difference between the following:

a) You?

b) Your Father?

If you know the answer to my question, you will be able to figure out the answer to your own question.