rvp2018:
Cement figures you gave me are not authoritative. They come from similar websites like the one that said cement consumption was 5.2M tonnes.

10M seem highly unlikely. Entire Dangote Cement last year(2018) sold 8.9m in all it's market outside Nigeria- Ghana, Ethiopia, Tanzania.
http://www.dangotecement.com/wp-content/uploads/reports/2019/FY2018/DangoteCement_FY2018_ResultsStatement.pdf

I give you a figure from the Authority of the sector and you're claiming it is not authoritative

why are you quoting dangote cement when Dangote is just a small player in the cement market in Ghana?

Just30:
no
informal economy is a clear manifestation of a real shadow economy and globally, that economy is worth more than the known economy.

Who goes to a hotel to dine?
that is not the purpose of a hotel.

whiles people build wealth, they send their kids to better schools, buy luxury, go on vacations, shops and drive cars

Rvp is failing to get. thanks for the education.

Dangote surely knows the industry stats in a market he operates. You gave me dodgy websites.

Just30:
I give you a figure from the Authority of the sector and you're claiming it is not authoritative

why are you quoting dangote cement when Dangote is just a small player in the cement market in Ghana?

rvp2018:
Well hotel or restaurants - middle class should be able to dine there once in a while. You cannot hide wealth or progress in shadow or informal. It doesn't exists.

Guy , Nigerians will even tell you that most of the eye brow building in lagos are mostly occupied by those who are in informal sector. In west africa, the guys in informal sector are the big boys. they are smart and professional. that is why it is stupid to used minimum wage to judge the standard of living in both Ghana and Nigeria. Goverment employed very little people....

Kazikazi:
You should doubt.Kumasi and Accra don't look like cities from middle income country.I can't mention Tokoradi or tamale.A country like Zambia,has better cities than what u see in Kumasi.
I think Ghana gov is overrating their economic numbers

your rants are sounding funny

Those cities have grown beyond themselves such that their centre looks dejected

but comparing your below standard country is far under the belt.
Because Tanzania and Zanzibar are far underdeveloped

rvp2018:
Dangote surely knows the industry stats in a market he operates. You gave me dodgy websites.

Lol....Dangote operate under the umbrella of that authority. DANGOTE IS JUST A TINY PLAYER. Ghana is not Nigeria.

rvp2018:
Okay I think Dangote has the figure.

From his group 2018 results.
http://www.dangotecement.com/wp-content/uploads/reports/2019/FY2018/DangoteCement_FY2018_ResultsStatement.pdf

Ghana
With per-capita consumption of about 213kg/person and total demand of more than 6Mt in 2018, Ghana
is an attractive market for cement in West Africa. Its economy is strong and this is driving housing and
infrastructure growth across the country.

you sound really funny


Dangote is not even a player yet in Ghana and you think hewill have figures on the Ghanaian sector?
anyway, this is from GHACEM, the single largest player in the sector reporting on the sector as at 2017 or 18

https://www.ghacem.com/en/social_contribution

Rev. Dr. George Dawson-Ahmoah, who read it out in his welcome address noted the coming together of the cement manufacturers was in recognition of the enormous value addition that is being created by the companies, making the industry a strategic one in the economic development of Ghana. “All together we have an installed production capacities of about 8.6 million tons per annum and creating over 3,000 own and outsourced employees with an average financial contributions of over 500 million Ghana Cedis (direct, indirect taxes, port dues etc) also creating extended business offers to various business entrepreneurs.” he said.

Rev. Dr. Dawson-Ahmoah, further indicated that by the close of the year, an additional manufacturing set up with a total capacity of about 1.6 million tons is expected making a total installed capacity of 10.2 million tons per annum. He shows the economic importance of the cement manufacturing industries that called for a united front focusing on ensuring adequate protection against unfair trade practices.

rvp2018:
What do you mean revenues? You mean gov revenues? Or you mean trade - export revenues. Kenya doesn't have natural resources like you - in most typical African countries - our remittance is also very low - now approaching 3b dollars - our trade deficit is whopping 11B dollars (we export about 6B dollars and import 18-20B dollars worth of goods). Our gov revenues are approaching 20-21B dollars.

In short - Ghana is typical Africa country dependant on minerals - Kenya outside South africa has the MOST SOPHISTICATED DOMESTIC ECONOMY that makes nonsense of 11B trade deficit.If you look at say our retail & wholesaling - formal trade it inching towards 40%. Kenya is 2nd to south africa in luxury goods market.

For example - six carre four stores in Nairobi - closed nearly 150M dollars in total sales
https://www.businessdailyafrica.com/corporate/companies/Carrefour-s-Kenya-sales-hit-Sh14bn/4003102-5057928-p3eh5iz/index.html

In short - Ghana is still largely primitive informal economy held together by minning, oil & remittance - while Kenya is well diversified sophisticated market - that is secondly only to south africa - and quickly formalizing.

Simple. in financial stability . You don't come close....foreign remittance, project development, social development,. revenue sourcing. You cant spend such money Ghana will spend....


You can imagine if the informal sector is piloted to the tax scheme, how much Ghana will have been making in revenue cus over 85 percent of them don't pay tax.... Ghana is even yet to tax digital buisness.... more access to make more dolls . Nigeria is also in the same shoe . they are opportunity for goverment to make money......

rvp2018:
It's intriguing enough. What is not deniable is they are doing well in natural resources - oil plus minning. Outside those sectors I am starting to have my doubts.

You're right as always! I'm skimming through some data and it's looking fishy. Am on my phone now and tied up next 2 or 3 days and will go deep when am free.

They are talking installed capacity - kenya has 10M or about installed capacity - but we are now selling around 6m. I am talking what was produced and consumed. I think Dangote at minimum understand industry stats. I am going with their figures until I get yours.

Just30:

you sound really funny


Dangote is not even a player yet in Ghana and you think hewill have figures on the Ghanaian sector?
anyway, this is from GHACEM, the single largest player in the sector reporting on the sector as at 2017 or 18

https://www.ghacem.com/en/social_contribution

Rev. Dr. George Dawson-Ahmoah, who read it out in his welcome address noted the coming together of the cement manufacturers was in recognition of the enormous value addition that is being created by the companies, making the industry a strategic one in the economic development of Ghana. “All together we have an installed production capacities of about 8.6 million tons per annum and creating over 3,000 own and outsourced employees with an average financial contributions of over 500 million Ghana Cedis (direct, indirect taxes, port dues etc) also creating extended business offers to various business entrepreneurs.” he said.

Rev. Dr. Dawson-Ahmoah, further indicated that by the close of the year, an additional manufacturing set up with a total capacity of about 1.6 million tons is expected making a total installed capacity of 10.2 million tons per annum. He shows the economic importance of the cement manufacturing industries that called for a united front focusing on ensuring adequate protection against unfair trade practices.

rvp2018:
I find that hard to believe. I think as country become rich - it starts looking rich - organized - formal. Officially Ghana gdp per capita is about 3000 - just a few dollars to join middle class nation - and it doesn't look the part.

Opps I think GDP per capita is 2000 or around - well no need to sweat it. That is about right.

the informal economy in China is larger than the formal economy

Do you even know the size of the derivatives market in the US and how they managed to bring that into their formal economy?

Ghana GDP per capita is 2400 dollars

rvp2018:
We are trying to find the truth. I am seeing 5M tonnes domestic consumption in 2018 with installed capacity of 7.5m. Where is the 10M coming from.

That 50% overcapacity is very strange! There are normal peaks and dips in consumption but what biz can sustain the cost of such idle capacity indefinitely?
Hmmmm...

You just invent words - financial stability is what? Let try stick to empirical evidence - not make-belief about some high income informal sector big boys living large in slums.

Here is your budget
https://www2.deloitte.com/gh/en/pages/tax/articles/ghana-2019-budget-commentary-tax-highlights.html

Revenues around 57 billion Ghana Cedis which translated 10B dollars. Kenya does about twice that.

You capital expenditure is 11-12%(development budget) - your debt servicing is around 24-25%.

vaxx2:
Simple. in financial stability . You don't come close....foreign remittance, project development, social development,. revenue sourcing. You cant spend such money Ghana will spend....


You can imagine if the informal sector is piloted to the tax scheme, how much Ghana will have been making in revenue cus over 85 percent of them don't pay tax.... Ghana is even yet to tax digital buisness.... more access to make more dolls . Nigeria is also in the same shoe . they are opportunity for goverment to make money......

Kazikazi:
No proof given.Most African governments are cheating their figures.You can't say Dar es salaam is small.If u want comparisons, u are welcome.But no gov figures,just bring pics or videos for proof.
I can't accept the lies of a country with huge middle class but there are no real estate owned by same middle class.
I don't know what u have done ahead of Dar. Do u have skyscrapers more than Dar?More residential homes than Dar? Better hospitals than those in Dar?Better hotels? Better marine transportation than Dar? Better golf courses? Better public transport?

you are funny

what do you think 10 million metric tonnes of cement is used for?
why should Ghana waste money on marine transport when none of it communities are built along river courses.?

Facts still remains that the real estate market in Ghana is bigger and developed than in Tanzania.
Why should we build golf courses when golf is not a game appreciated here?
how does golf courses make you developed?

you wont even talk about the necessities like schools, hospitals

rvp2018:
Actually I was wasting my time and energy - Ghana is just poor country like kenya. It has roughly same GDP per capita - about 2,200?

Kenya gdp per capita is $2010 dollars
gdp 99 billion
population 52 million

Every Africa country has huge informal economy. It's hard to measure and therefore we don't have to sweat it. Kenya GDP per capita as of this year will be around 99/47m roughly 2000usd. And Ghana have been aggresively rebasing - every 5yrs - which is strange considering you don't do census or large scale household surveys that often - and so that mean your economic data is pretty-upto-date. Kenya we are on 10yr re-basing cycle - we should be do it soon.

Just30:
the informal economy in China is larger than the formal economy

Do you even know the size of the derivatives market in the US and how they managed to bring that into their formal economy?

Ghana GDP per capita is 2400 dollars

Shma:
Seems Ghana is far much developed than any other country in west.! Your HDI is slightly high above Kenya and far much ahead of any other west African. But when it come to economy I guess GDP speaks it bro. We are ahead of you guys in GDP.

except GDP spread to the production level of your citizens speaks otherwise

It will be around 99/47.5 - around 2100. We just released our census. Total pop is 47.5m (not 52m).

Just30:
Kenya gdp per capita is $2010 dollars
gdp 99 billion
population 52 million

rvp2018:
What do you mean revenues? You mean gov revenues? Or you mean trade - export revenues. Kenya doesn't have natural resources like you - in most typical African countries - our remittance is also very low - now approaching 3b dollars - our trade deficit is whopping 11B dollars (we export about 6B dollars and import 18-20B dollars worth of goods). Our gov revenues are approaching 20-21B dollars.

In short - Ghana is typical Africa country dependant on minerals - Kenya outside South africa has the MOST SOPHISTICATED DOMESTIC ECONOMY that makes nonsense of 11B trade deficit.If you look at say our retail & wholesaling - formal trade it inching towards 40%. Kenya is 2nd to south africa in luxury goods market.

For example - six carre four stores in Nairobi - closed nearly 150M dollars in total sales
https://www.businessdailyafrica.com/corporate/companies/Carrefour-s-Kenya-sales-hit-Sh14bn/4003102-5057928-p3eh5iz/index.html

In short - Ghana is still largely primitive informal economy held together by minning, oil & remittance - while Kenya is well diversified sophisticated market - that is secondly only to south africa - and quickly formalizing.

the revenue he is refering to is tax revenue


for a country with 52 million people, almost double the number of people Ghana has
Your tax revenue shouldn't be less than 15 billion dollars cause 20 billion dollars is an under achievement.

tax revenue should always be 25% or above of gdp

rvp2018:
You just invent words - financial stability is what? Let try stick to empirical evidence - not make-belief about some high income informal sector big boys living large in slums.

Here is your budget
https://www2.deloitte.com/gh/en/pages/tax/articles/ghana-2019-budget-commentary-tax-highlights.html

Revenues around 57 billion Ghana Cedis which translated 10B dollars. Kenya does about twice that.

You capital expenditure is 11-12%(development budget) - your debt servicing is around 24-25%.

update yourself or better still ask question, I can link you to where you will read emperical fact not road side statistics.... And I am referring to tax revenue here ....It seems VIA have an outdated numbers but you can consult Ghana revenue authority for more update ...

rvp2018:
We cannot see that real estate boom in pictures or videos - maybe your cities are just sprawling into huge unplanned slumspolis? Be careful you don't become another Nigeria or Gabon.

Gabon officially has Africa highest GDP per capita I think - but the country is a shit.hole.

GOOGLE MAP does Not lie


have a real satellite view.

aint got time to run around Ghana and take pics

vaxx2:
You mean the high speed train?

yes

Shma:
Somehow, but what will you say about Tz and Ethiopia case, they have twice our population but our GDP still doubles theirs , yeah huge population like the one of Nageris will for sure influence.

Ethiopia is a special case in Africa after many years of battling droughts and famine

rvp2018:
Well hotel or restaurants - middle class should be able to dine there once in a while. You cannot hide wealth or progress in shadow or informal. It doesn't exists.

exactly
you cant hide wealth

and so far, all the stats prove you are poorer

You're too light-weight. The data I quoted are projected 2019 tax figures. Ordinary taxes will be around 45 B Ghana cedis - roughly 8B dollars. I wonder what % of this come from minning and oil industry.

vaxx2:
update yourself or better still ask question, I can link you to where you will read emperical fact not road side statistics.... And I am referring to tax revenue here ....It seems VIA have an outdated numbers but you can consult Ghana revenue authority for more update ...

Just30:
Ethiopia is a special case in Africa after many years of battling droughts and famine

There is more opportunities of growth in Ethiopia than any country in east Africa . Tanzania too isn't far fetched if she can improve her literacy record. so many unskilled and unprofessional individual in that country. Many of the formal job are played by foreigners. in honest same thing apply to a kenya . there was a report that a multinational company in Kenya employ kenya citizen for the first time in about decade. and it calls for celebration .

Very slightly - I hope mining and oil is not distorting the wealth - because you know those sectors are not felt by the common Ghanian. Ask Nigerians.

Just30:
exactly
you cant hide wealth

and so far, all the stats prove you are poorer

rvp2018:
Dangote surely knows the industry stats in a market he operates. You gave me dodgy websites.

Dangote does not and that is why he is sceptical on continuing his factory after realising that the market is currently oversupplied.

He played his role when the market had s short fall of 1 million metric tonnes and specials licenses where given to people to import cement

Employ a Kenyan CEO is different from employing a Kenyan. Kenya attract more Multinationals than any country in SSA outside South Africa. In terms of number of Kenyan in Ivy League - Kenya is competing with Nigeria - Ghanians are nowhere in Harvard or Yale or such schools.

In PISA like test done in Southern & Eastern Africa countries - Kenya kids annually excel - only 2nd to Mauritus - with South Africa distant

Yale Director for Africa “Kenyans continue to hold the largest share of admissions to Yale from Africa, which shows the premium the country puts on quality education.” Data from Yale University provided information on the admission rates of African students with Kenyans taking the biggest slice of the pie with 24 admissions. Nigerian followed closely in admissions with 23 students, Zimbabwe secured the third spot with 18 admissions and South Africa were in last with 16 admissions.

vaxx2:
There is more opportunities of growth in Ethiopia than any country in east Africa . Tanzania too isn't far fetched if she can improve her illiteracy record. so many unskilled and unprofessional individual in that country. Many of the formal job are played by foreigners. in honest same thing apply to a kenya . there was a report that a multinational company in Kenya employ kenya citizen for the first time in about decade. and it calls for celebration .

rvp2018:
Dangote surely knows the industry stats in a market he operates. You gave me dodgy websites.

i gave you a website with Authority

A trusted news website in Ghana and not a blog.

rvp2018:
You're too light-weight. The data I quoted are projected 2019 tax figures. Ordinary taxes will be around 45 B Ghana cedis - roughly 8B dollars. I wonder what % of this come from minning and oil industry.

i said update yourself. do this by consulting CIA for additional update . there is no way kenya make more tax revenue than Ghana. what do you want to tax? The banking or the hospitality sector ? Ghana in 2018 rakes nothing less than 9 billion dollar above. this from statistical office and the revenue board ...

vaxx2:
Guy , Nigerians will even tell you that most of the eye brow building in lagos are mostly occupied by those who are in informal sector. In west africa, the guys in informal sector are the big boys. they are smart and professional. that is why it is stupid to used minimum wage to judge the standard of living in both Ghana and Nigeria. Goverment employed very little people....

he doesnt no

He hasn't heard of the Ghanaian economic magic

Where someone living on a 2000 cedis pay is able to build an 8 bedroom mansion and drives a porch car.