These are a few of my thoughts with regard to the spiritual realm. This realm is in a different dimension, different from space and time as we know it, and yet curiously interwoven with the natural realm in which we exist physically.

The realm of the spiritual may be compared to a universe parallel to the natural, but only in the sense that it coexists with the natural. This is nonetheless not a perfect comparison; there are certain important differences between the spiritual and the natural.

1. The spiritual is not exactly parallel to the natural. It is rather more accurate to say that the natural is a shadow of the spiritual. A shadow is a poor representation of reality, and specific features of an object cannot easily be deduced from its shadow. Depending on the ambient conditions, the appearance of a shadow may vary and not appear the same at different times and places. While the substance may not change, the shadow is subject to change, and there is a severe limitation to the accuracy of what can be seen in a shadow.

2. The spiritual is not governed by natural laws. Natural laws are a representation of spiritual principles. Therefore while the natural is subject to the spiritual, the spiritual is not subject to the natural. There are two principles in the spiritual, from which everything else arises: the principle of authority, and the principle of rebellion.

3. Because the spiritual is not governed by natural laws, it is impossible to interpret spiritual events according to natural laws. In the spiritual, for example, 2+2 may or may not be equal to 4, depending on the principle of the operator. Because parameters have different meanings and frames of reference, natural laws cannot be used to validate spiritual occurrences.

4. Spiritual occurences can sometimes be validated by observing their effect in the natural. Hence, while one may not be able to say "if 2+2 = 4 in the natural, it must also be so in the spiritual", one may be able to say "if xyz has happened in the spiritual, it is verifiable in the natural by its visible effect".

5. The spiritual realm is a realm of infinites and absolutes - infinite knowledge, absolute values. There are no grey zones or DMZs in the spiritual. Not surprising, if there is infinite knowledge. Grey zones are a result of uncertainties, and there is no such thing as uncertainty in the spiritual.

6. Time, space and the five senses are restrictions to which the natural is subject – a restriction that has no hold on the spiritual. For this reason, the natural mind is not equipped to comprehend spiritual things in the same way as a spiritual mind. 

7. The spiritual supersedes the natural. Spiritual events determine what happens in the natural, and not vice versa. But because both realms are interfaced, events in one realm invariably affect the other.

I have written the majority of this from my experience. It is not exhaustive, and questions and contributions are welcome.

Quite illuminating. Thanks Genial.

Genial,
Good write up.

Pls tell me; If as you say, the spiritual is not governed by natural laws, then why does mankind suffer a spiritual consequence as a result of his natural actions or decision e.g. hellfire.

Why does the physical act of sowing a seed bring about spiritual multiplication of harvest?

I was wondering what your thoughts are on this. I feel that the spiritual state of mankind is also governed by his physical actions.

@Grouppoint,

Grouppoint:

Please tell me; If as you say, the spiritual is not governed by natural laws, then why does mankind suffer a spiritual consequence as a result of his natural actions or decision e.g. hellfire.

Having myself thought about that, I now understand that the natural is governed by the spiritual. The reason is that all our actions on the natural plane are either in consonance with, or in dissonance to, the spiritual realm. When spiritual laws are disobeyed or disregarded, consequences thereto manifest in the natural plane. The principle is shown in Gen. 1:15 - "And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so." Earth was to receive light from the firmament of the heaven, and not the other way round.

Even so, our actions in the natural plane could influence the spiritual realms to effect blessings for our good. That's why we pray and worship.

bari_kade:


Even so, our actions in the natural plane could influence the spiritual realms to effect blessings for our good. That's why we pray and worship.

I agree that the natural realm is governed by the spiritual. However I also believe that the spiritual is also affected by the natural. Your statement above seems to concur with me.

Grouppoint:

I agree that the natural realm is governed by the spiritual. However I also believe that the spiritual is also affected by the natural. Your statement above seems to concur with me.

Man is first a spiritual being, then a natural one. In the same way that everything that manifests physically on your person is a reflection of the various (thought) processes that go on within you, so the natural is a reflection of the spiritual.

If the natural is a reflection of the spiritual, then then by definition the natural is subordinate to the spiritual-the image of which it is a shadow. You cannot change your appearance by changing your reflection or modifying your photograph, neither can you remove an image by obscuring the shadow it casts.

Grouppoint:

Please tell me; If as you say, the spiritual is not governed by natural laws, then why does mankind suffer a spiritual consequence as a result of his natural actions or decision e.g. hellfire.

Natural actions are the result of a spiritual state. Mankind does not suffer a spiritual consequence such as hellfire because of natural actions. It is the consequence of a spiritual state manifesting in physical actions.

Why does the physical act of sowing a seed bring about spiritual multiplication of harvest?

Spiritual seed will yield spiritual seed, which often manifests in the natural, but natural seed will only yield natural seed. If you remember that the natural and spiritual realms are interwoven, then you will understand that most seeds are both natural and spiritual. Therefore they will yield fruit in both realms.

I was wondering what your thoughts are on this. I feel that the spiritual state of mankind is also governed by his physical actions.

The physical actions of man are governed by his spiritual state. Therefore, physical actions reflect spiritual state.

@Genial,

I enjoyed much in your first post on the thread. However, as a Christian I'm persuaded that the spiritual and the natural are mutual/interrelated. Certainly, the physical realm is mostly governed by the spiritual realm; but then, the physical/natural actions of man have direct influence on the spiritual realms.

The example of prayer and worship is a scoring factor on the statement that the activities in the physical influence the spiritual. It is man who prays "let Thy Kingdom come", and then God responds with power and glory. Man's activities in this respect will influence the response of the Spirit - either for good or bad. Another example thereto is the 'sowing' of our financial gifts on the physical plane; and the consequent spiritual harvest that follow such actions.

Ultimately, God rules over all things. And in His sovereignty, He does not impose anything on man. In the divine economy, the heavens rule over the earth; but the actions of man on the earth influence the response of the heavens.

Cheers.

shahan:

@Genial,

I enjoyed much in your first post on the thread. However, as a Christian I'm persuaded that the spiritual and the natural are mutual/interrelated. Certainly, the physical realm is mostly governed by the spiritual realm; but then, the physical/natural actions of man have direct influence on the spiritual realms. The example of prayer and worship is a scoring factor on the statement that the activities in the physical influence the spiritual. It is man who prays "let Thy Kingdom come", and then God responds with power and glory.

God is a Spirit, and they that worship him must worship Him in spirit and in truth. Prayer and worship are not physical exercises. They are spiritual, and overflow into the physical.

Man's activities in this respect will influence the response of the Spirit - either for good or bad. Another example thereto is the 'sowing' of our financial gifts on the physical plane; and the consequent spiritual harvest that follow such actions.

This is an example of a seed that is both spiritual and physical. "Give, and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over, shall men give into your bosom." And "For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me. . . . as you did it to one of the least of these my brothers, you did it to me".

Ultimately, God rules over all things. And in His sovereignty, He does not impose anything on man. In the divine economy, the heavens rule over the earth; but the actions of man on the earth influence the response of the heavens.

It is "Thy will be done on earth, as it is in heaven", and not the other way round. “. . . whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven” is a declaration that grants spiritual authority, and may also be read as "shall have been bound in heaven".

Your actions on earth can be spiritual. Their physical manifestations only show what has happened/is happening in the spiritual.

@Genial,

Genial:

God is a Spirit, and they that worship him must worship Him in spirit and in truth. Prayer and worship are not physical exercises. They are spiritual, and overflow into the physical.

Prayer and worship are spiritual activities that occur on earth in the physical world. That they are spiritual activities does not negate their physical aspects.

Genial:

This is an example of a seed that is both spiritual and physical. "Give, and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over, shall men give into your bosom." And "For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me. . . . as you did it to one of the least of these my brothers, you did it to me".

Aye!

Genial:

It is "Thy will be done on earth, as it is in heaven", and not the other way round. “. . . whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven” is a declaration that grants spiritual authority, and may also be read as "shall have been bound in heaven".

Read my post carefully: I don't think I suggested that it was the other way round.

Besides, if man's prayer does not influence the response of the spiritual realms, then it is highly improbable that man should need to pray in the first place. "Ask and it shall be given" - does not suggest an idea of "whatever you ask shall have been asked in heaven!"

Spiritual authority has its place - as in the case of binding and loosing. However, man's activities have a huge part to play in influencing the response of the spiritual realm.

Genial:

Your actions on earth can be spiritual. Their physical manifestations only show what has happened/is happening in the spiritual.

It does not follow in all cases. A man first has to repent and believe in Jesus Christ before mercy and forgiveness are received. In the same vein, it is not to be misconstrued for the idea that a man's repentance on earth is only showing that he has first repented in the spiritual realms before it manifested in the physical.

shahan:

Prayer and worship are spiritual activities that occur on earth in the physical world. That they are spiritual activities does not negate their physical aspects.

You miss the point. Are prayer and worship spiritual or physical? If physical, then prayer and worship are no different from jogging around the park or going shopping. If spiritual, the fact that it takes place in a physical setting is irrelevant. Man lives in a physical body, and so every one of his activities has a physical element, in the sense that you imply. To remove this physical element totally would mean death. What do you think these mean: "Therefore, whatever I speak, just as the Father has told Me, so I speak", and ". . . the Son can do nothing of himself, but what He sees the Father do; for whatever He does, the Son also does in like manner. . . ."? Do they reflect the spiritual or physical?

shahan:

Read my post carefully: I don't think I suggested that it was the other way round.

Besides, if man's prayer does not influence the response of the spiritual realms, then it is highly improbable that man should need to pray in the first place. "Ask and it shall be given" - does not suggest an idea of "whatever you ask shall have been asked in heaven!"

I'm sure that I did not suggest that the physical realm does not influence the spiritual. Perhaps you should read point 7 of the original post again.

Spiritual authority has its place - as in the case of binding and loosing. However, man's activities have a huge part to play in influencing the response of the spiritual realm.

See above. There is a difference between "influence" and "govern".

It does not follow in all cases. A man first has to repent and believe in Jesus Christ before mercy and forgiveness are received. In the same vein, it is not to be misconstrued for the idea that a man's repentance on earth is only showing that he has first repented in the spiritual realms before it manifested in the physical.

Quite accurate. This is one example where a physical action holds the key to the spiritual.

@Genial,

Genial:

I'm sure that I did not suggest that the physical realm does not influence the spiritual. Perhaps you should read point 7 of the original post again.

I did. Don't know what I'm missing.

Genial:

See above. There is a difference between "influence" and "govern".

Precisely my point - and that's why they appear in italics in my posts.

Genial:

Quite accurate. This is one example where a physical action holds the key to the spiritual.

Enjoy.

What would you say about gates?