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Nairaland Forum / Nairaland / General / Religion / Pastor AIO, Come Teach Us The Truth. (10202 Views)
He Decided To Teach Them A Lesson By Disturbing Them. Check The Pictures / Deepsight,pastor AIO, And Everyone Else, Lets Discuss CONSCIOUSNESS.. Again. / PASTOR AIO, Let's Discuss IFA. (2) (3) (4)
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Re: Pastor AIO, Come Teach Us The Truth. by DeepSight(m): 3:52pm On Oct 13, 2009 |
m_nwankwo: This certainly cannot explain his reference to the fact that God makes people in a certain way. . . And then in another breath on this same thread demand a Definition of God, and state that he is wary of discussing God. . . Certainly, any person who states that "God made [someone] that way" must have a preconception of what the word "God" means, to be able to make that statement. It is odd that the person shortly thereafter demands for definitions of God, and also categorically states that [God] is not a bearded old man sitting in the sky". . . further evidence that he in fact has a fair idea of what the word "God" refers to. I was mildly surprised that he herein referred to himself as a Christian - Pastor AIO:- Because when i asked him who Jesus was, despite the fact that Christianity commences with Jesus, he is not inclined to make a commitment on the identity of Jesus. Christians accept Jesus as the "Messiah" and also as "the Son of God" who brought a message of light to mankind. Instead Pastor chose to state only: Pastor AIO:. You must admit he is a bit confusing, and hopefully this thread will be a chance for him to clear things up. . . |
Re: Pastor AIO, Come Teach Us The Truth. by mnwankwo(m): 4:24pm On Oct 13, 2009 |
Deep Sight: Hi DeepSight. I see your point but if you look at all Pastor AIO posts, not only the one you referenced, you will hopefully find what he believes God to be. Pastor AIO believes in God and I am confident that he will answer your question on that issue. Maybe, you may consider the way you frame your questions to him. They do appear to look like a demand rather than a request. It is like you are putting his convictions on trial. I do not want to hold brief for him but their is a very interesting debate I had with him more than a year ago on identity and counsciousness. In that debate, he clearly demonstrated what his convictions are and I do not think that he has changed since then. Maybe you just find time to read all his posts and hopefully you will see what his convictions are. In addition Pastor AIO usually bring jokes into what is a very serious discussion. I guess it a way of him saying that we should not taken things too serious or else we become fixated to forms and become imperceptible to the pulsating power of God which shapes the forms. As always stay blessed. |
Re: Pastor AIO, Come Teach Us The Truth. by DeepSight(m): 4:46pm On Oct 13, 2009 |
^^^ I believe in Pastor, i really do. Together with Prizm, yourself (i mean no flattery) and a genlteman called EasyLogic, he ranks amongst the few on this forum who have genuinely "wowed" me and blown me away with the high quality of their minds. It is for this reason that i have a need to understand him better. I am sure he will help. |
Re: Pastor AIO, Come Teach Us The Truth. by duduspace(m): 5:50pm On Oct 13, 2009 |
Deep Sight: I am through arguing the proof of God's existence with anyone (except when I'm in the mood to amuse myself) because I 've come to the conclusion that it is a moot point which is why I'm an apathetic agnostic. You can't prove either way whether he exists or not without falling into a fallacy so I keep a very open mind in that regards. Deep Sight: You are talking about living out of time and you are still holding on to rigid definitions as defined in time, isn't that a contradiction? My precise point being that once you go out of what we know and are sure of, all other things become conjectures with their attendant inconsistencies. Deep Sight:You've put up a reasonable defense but it falls flat on its face, without going into details, the question remains couldn't an "Ultimate intelligence" design things better? Deep Sight: I do step out of the bubble of pre-existing things, but with a caveat (that no one is able to prove anything conclusive beyond the point at which matter came into existence without falling into a fallacy). The age old question remains that how exactly did something come out of nothing? but attributing it to a creator and then giving attributes of intelligence and power to that creator is also a fallacy which actually does descend into farce as evidenced in religion (organised or individual). Besides, have you ever questioned why matter cannot be destroyed? but is only transitional? maybe when we get to understand how to make nothing out of something then we will know how something can come from nothing. I think there is a very good reason why null and infinity are theoretical constructs which cannot be practically evidenced or ascertained. |
Re: Pastor AIO, Come Teach Us The Truth. by DeepSight(m): 5:54pm On Oct 13, 2009 |
^^^ Duduspace - Like i said, let's not derail this thread. I am still waiting for Pastor. |
Re: Pastor AIO, Come Teach Us The Truth. by DeepSight(m): 11:40am On Oct 14, 2009 |
Hi Pastor. . .wassup? |
Re: Pastor AIO, Come Teach Us The Truth. by PastorAIO: 1:35pm On Oct 14, 2009 |
Deep Sight: Hello Deepsight. Thank you for your patience. I shall now answer your questions and hopefully it will be satisfactory. As regards the definition of God first I want to recall certain posts eg. this one from the thread on the Kabbalah.
When I said that every religionist should be made aware of this statement it is because I agree with it. I am wary of various peoples various notions about God. Quite rightly you said that for me God is undefined. I believe that I am incapable of defining God. That doesn't mean that I don't believe God to exist. Moreover I find that those rigid definitions of God become quite dangerous after awhile. I'm not too impressed with the Prime mover argument, as you could probably tell, for various reasons. It places God and the act of creation at a point in Time (the beginning) and I think that God is beyond the temporal.
Like I said in response I believe that humans can be saved from their conditioned souls. That is a type of salvation. If you are talking about the concepts of heaven and hell then this is what I've said in the past.
I find that the concept of heaven and hell does something nasty to religionists. It brings out a spitefulness in their nature. Like a gleeful hope that their enemies are going to burn forever. It takes them in a direction away from love and as such, in my opinion, takes them away from salvation. The Mountain of Fire guys remain the greatest example of vitriolic hate filled religionism. Salvation to me (in the sense that I think you want to hear it) means coming to the knowledge of, and resting in, Christ who is found within. For me the Kingdom of heaven is within you and I. A question I would like to ask anyone who would care to answer: When Jesus died where did he go? In this post, you have shown a very personal belief in God, Redemption through faith and grace, as well as an understanding of a concept of salvation?? You have noticed a change, not in my beliefs but in the language in which I express them. The change came earlier this year and I wrote this post at that time:
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=295066.msg4170194#msg4170194 Around this time I also mentioned in other posts that I was giving up the word christian for hate-filled mob. If you noticed above when I gave a list of what Life's appropriation is called in various cultures I missed out the word Logos which is the Greek term and it is also used in christianity. Previously it would have been at the top of the list. I am trying to avoid any terminology that any 'christians' might latch unto and use to bring their own notions into what I want to say. What is the difference between when I said this I'll put it another way. I don't do good in order to win God's favour. I do good because I've had God's favour (however undeservedly).and when I said this: It is the same thing articulated differently. It is a matter of putting the cart before the horse. Love comes from the experience of Christ. You don't earn Christ by Loving. that is the wrong way round. Being Good/righteous comes from the divine influence in your life not the other way round whereby if you are good then you earn divine favour. https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=135166.msg4213434#msg4213434 I find the idea that some are ignorantly worshipping God very powerful. Jesus said that some will be surprised when he welcomes them and tells them that they served him when he was hungry, when he was homeless etc. Perplexed they will ask him, 'lord when did we do these things?' To which Christ answered, 'whenever you did it to the least of these, you did it also to me'. (I'm paraphrasing). It is the rigid human constructs that pass for religion that make me lift my guard up. If I'm dealing with somebody's false notions then I need to know exactly what those notions are and so I need clear definitions. Then I can say exactly where and why I agree or disagree with them. Boy, this has taken the better part of 2 hours. There is more to say but I don tire. We'll have to wait to the next episode. |
Re: Pastor AIO, Come Teach Us The Truth. by DeepSight(m): 1:55pm On Oct 14, 2009 |
Pastor sir, my respect grows. . . i think we are getting there. . . We are learning, i am so glad about this thread. But in the next episode, can i respectfully request that we take up the issue of christ - Pastor AIO: This dovetails with Noetic's position, curiously. What really, do we mean by the experience of Christ? Because i would have thought that those who have love in their hearts, have "Christ" however defined. Thus, it could be said that a loving muslim, hindu, buddhist, agnostic. . . all have christ in their hearts, once they have charithy and empathy with their fellow men. . . And this tallies perfectly with - Pastor AIO: |
Re: Pastor AIO, Come Teach Us The Truth. by KunleOshob(m): 2:19pm On Oct 14, 2009 |
The thread keeps getting more and more interesting, some deeper truths are being revealed in this thread but i am sure most readers would miss it. I would take a back seat and keep learning. |
Re: Pastor AIO, Come Teach Us The Truth. by Krayola(m): 3:14pm On Oct 14, 2009 |
@ Pastor AIO. I think your last post was fukn brilliant. I'm pretty sure u know where I stand on the issue of God as you quoted that stuff from the Kabbalah thread. I don't even like to use the word "God" because I think it is such a loaded term. Also, I'm a huge fan of Jesus, but I hate everything about "Christianity". I'm taking a course on Jesus right now and I've been using my phone to capture video of the lectures (I can get kicked out of school if I get caught ). I'll get around to uploading them on youtube when I have time but I think It'll be worth checking out. I've been playing devil's advocate throwing all sorts of hard questions at the prof and he has been able to answer everyone of them, imo, honestly and satisfactorily. So, so far all my conspiracy theories about the Biblical authors have been "debunked" (alternative explanations that make sense) I'm sure Nairaland Christians will enjoy watching. I'm learning quite a bit about Islam right now and the more I learn about Mohammed, the more a fan of his I become. It's crazy how much vitriol is out there in the so called religious communities, and how much misinformation (propaganda) people have accepted as matter of fact. But your reply to my questions on the last page, we are going to have to slug that one out. But I am drowning in school work so I probably can't make any post longer than three lines for the next week or so. Unless u wan pay my school fees if I fail. So we go get back to that later. Take am easy. |
Re: Pastor AIO, Come Teach Us The Truth. by DeepSight(m): 3:42pm On Oct 14, 2009 |
^^^Krayola, the Pastor is brilliant. But we need him to get more specific because brilliance is often a conumburation (does this word exist) of multiplicity. . . |
Re: Pastor AIO, Come Teach Us The Truth. by Krayola(m): 4:11pm On Oct 14, 2009 |
Haha. "Conumburation" pass my power. Na to go find dictionary. Abeg sofly sofly |
Re: Pastor AIO, Come Teach Us The Truth. by Tudor6(f): 5:56pm On Oct 14, 2009 |
Even though I've been quite busy shuttling around coz of work, i've been following this thread and i must say i respect pastor's convictions on god. If all religionists were like him honestly the world would be such a happy place. . .we'd be kissing one another here on the religion section instead of the usual fighting. . . One love pastor. 1 Like |
Re: Pastor AIO, Come Teach Us The Truth. by noetic15(m): 6:08pm On Oct 14, 2009 |
Tudór: A diluted version of the gospel is appealing to a helpless atheist . . . . , its a narrow road and only FEW find it. . . .Jesus said so and not me. |
Re: Pastor AIO, Come Teach Us The Truth. by Tudor6(f): 6:21pm On Oct 14, 2009 |
noetic15:ha ha ha ha. . . . .Na today you start to dey craze? |
Re: Pastor AIO, Come Teach Us The Truth. by dgreatrock(m): 6:35pm On Oct 14, 2009 |
Why has Abu-zola not signed his fanaticism here |
Re: Pastor AIO, Come Teach Us The Truth. by noetic15(m): 6:48pm On Oct 14, 2009 |
Tudór: suit urself |
Re: Pastor AIO, Come Teach Us The Truth. by dgreatrock(m): 7:20pm On Oct 14, 2009 |
the truth is that this so called pastor A |
Re: Pastor AIO, Come Teach Us The Truth. by Chrisbenogor(m): 8:07am On Oct 15, 2009 |
You are still thinking in terms of codes and general rules applying to everybody at all times. What is right today may not be right tomorrow. What works for me may not work for you. You are not bearing in mind the individuality of human beings. You are not bearing in mind the uniqueness of various situations. Thank you for explaining, so you are saying therefore that there is no "right" or "wrong" thing. |
Re: Pastor AIO, Come Teach Us The Truth. by PastorAIO: 8:32am On Oct 15, 2009 |
Chrisbenogor: No, there is right and wrong. It is unique to each particular situation. |
Re: Pastor AIO, Come Teach Us The Truth. by KunleOshob(m): 8:46am On Oct 15, 2009 |
noetic15:Has it ever occured to you that the the over 2 billion adherents of popular christianity world wide cannot possibly be on that narrow road only very few would find? As it occured to you that even this very few[the very elect] are also in grave danger of being deceived? As it occured to you that there is a great deal of deception and mis-representaion being circulated in churches today? As it even occured to you that there are some deeper truths in the bible being obscured by main stream christianity today. I am sorry my brther but popular christianity [i.e pentecostal movement and other denominations] cannot possibly be on that narrow road. |
Re: Pastor AIO, Come Teach Us The Truth. by KunleOshob(m): 8:50am On Oct 15, 2009 |
@PastorAIO/Deep sight What do you make of this quote extracted from the "gospel of Thomas" attributable to Jesus: 1. And he said, "Whoever discovers the interpretation of these sayings will not taste death." 2. Jesus said, "Those who seek should not stop seeking until they find. When they find, they will be disturbed. When they are disturbed, they will marvel, and will reign over all. [And after they have reigned they will rest.]" 3. Jesus said, "If your leaders say to you, 'Look, the (Father's) kingdom is in the sky,' then the birds of the sky will precede you. If they say to you, 'It is in the sea,' then the fish will precede you. Rather, the (Father's) kingdom is within you and it is outside you. |
Re: Pastor AIO, Come Teach Us The Truth. by noetic15(m): 10:10am On Oct 15, 2009 |
KunleOshob: 1. I have never said that popular Christianity is the narrow road. Every christian is on a unique personal journey/relationship. Why would any bible-reading/ holy spirit filled christian take the word of his pastor as the ABSOLUTE truth? , . .I dont see why. every one needs to discover the unique truth of the gospel of Christ themselves. . . . .thats where a personal study of the bible comes in. 2. that narrow road is however EXCLUSIVE to genuine christiandom. No matter the degree of good works of a person, once they have not accepted the saving grace of Jesus as preached constantly to them. . . . then they are NOT partakers of eternity. |
Re: Pastor AIO, Come Teach Us The Truth. by PastorAIO: 10:23am On Oct 15, 2009 |
noetic15: what about such christians as are illiterate? Without being able to read the bible how do they discover this 'unique truth of the gospel of Christ themselves'. Not to mention those that may be able to read but haven't the intellectual capacity to grasp theological arguments or points of doctrine. |
Re: Pastor AIO, Come Teach Us The Truth. by KunleOshob(m): 1:06pm On Oct 15, 2009 |
@Pastor Nice questions, let's see noetic wriggle his way out of this one. |
Re: Pastor AIO, Come Teach Us The Truth. by duduspace(m): 1:42pm On Oct 15, 2009 |
Pastor AIO: Herein lies a conundrum, how exactly can you believe in something you can't define? doesn't this equate to something like "I don't really know"? what exactly are you sure of and what exactly are assumptions? |
Re: Pastor AIO, Come Teach Us The Truth. by DeepSight(m): 2:46pm On Oct 15, 2009 |
Pastor, still awaiting your expose on the below: Quote from: Pastor AIO on Yesterday at 01:35:01 PM Love comes from the experience of Christ. You don't earn Christ by Loving. that is the wrong way round. Being Good/righteous comes from the divine influence in your life not the other way round whereby if you are good then you earn divine favour. This dovetails with Noetic's position, curiously. What really, do we mean by the experience of Christ? Because i would have thought that those who have love in their hearts, have "Christ" however defined. Thus, it could be said that a loving muslim, hindu, buddhist, agnostic. . . all have christ in their hearts, once they have charithy and empathy with their fellow men. . . And this tallies perfectly with - Quote from: Pastor AIO on Yesterday at 01:35:01 PM I find the idea that some are ignorantly worshipping God very powerful. Jesus said that some will be surprised when he welcomes them and tells them that they served him when he was hungry, when he was homeless etc. Perplexed they will ask him, 'lord when did we do these things?' To which Christ answered, 'whenever you did it to the least of these, you did it also to me'. (I'm paraphrasing). |
Re: Pastor AIO, Come Teach Us The Truth. by PastorAIO: 3:57pm On Oct 15, 2009 |
I don't know what more to say. Perhaps if you asked the question then I'll see if I have the answer. By experience of Christ I guess I mean a experience whereby you feel LOVE and you feel a sense of an intentional Order in the universe. I couldn't say that these are the defining characteristics of the experience but they come associated with the experience. |
Re: Pastor AIO, Come Teach Us The Truth. by DeepSight(m): 4:12pm On Oct 15, 2009 |
Well Pastor, we need to bring this to a close, so is it safe to conclude the following: 1. You believe in God, a supernatural creator of the universe, et al 2. You also believe in the Christ, and draw essential christianity therefrom 3. This Christ you believe to be love, harmony and order inherent in creation, and not necessarily knowledge of the Earthlife of Mr. Jesus from Nazareth and as such - 4. Any person of any religion, tribe or philosophy who can key-in with that love inherent in creation is well placed therein, and may experience the "harmony" that results therefrom, and this may in part be understood also as spiritual salvation. 5. Guidance comes through the spirit, which provides contextual ethics for man: that man may know right and wrong on a situational basis, each situation being different, as opposed to codified and rigid laws. |
Re: Pastor AIO, Come Teach Us The Truth. by PastorAIO: 4:25pm On Oct 15, 2009 |
Wow! You really are a lawyer!!! Or is it that you just have such a gift with words. Did you read my last post on the Paul Kurtz thread? I wrote it with this thread in mind. you haven't commented yet. https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-148054.32.html |
Re: Pastor AIO, Come Teach Us The Truth. by DeepSight(m): 6:20pm On Oct 15, 2009 |
^^^ Good, so we can conclude, that you are now officially the second Deist on Nairaland (or actually the first, since you pre-date me) We must celebrate this. Don't worry, these days there is even Christian Deism. |
Re: Pastor AIO, Come Teach Us The Truth. by KunleOshob(m): 6:30pm On Oct 15, 2009 |
Deep Sight:It must be really lonely being the only deist on Nairaland hence your attempt to co-opt another "believer" |
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Pastor David Ibiyeomie / Going To Church Early Vs. Going To Church Late / What is the False Gospel Within Christianity Today?
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