Before Esau and Jacob were born, God HATED Isau and LOVED Jacob.

Esau had not committed any SIN against God to warrant his HATRED, and neither had Jacob done any RIGHTEOUSNESS to warrant his LOVE.

In answering this question, Paul the Apostle says God behaves as he (God) wishes, and God can't be questioned on what he does.

Now, what if when you die as a born again Christian, and you get to heaven's gate, and God says to you that he has changed his mind, that you're going to hell, HOW WOULD YOU FEEL ABOUT GOD THEN?

In answering, please remember that it's the same God that said the soul that sin shall die. This same God turned around to say he (God) shall avenge the sin of the father on the children till fourth generations.

This,

Now, what if when you die as a born again Christian, and you get to heaven's gate, and God says to you that he has changed his mind, that you're going to hell, HOW WOULD YOU FEEL ABOUT GOD THEN?

cannot happen.

It is rather funny(or should I say unfortunate?) that you chose to expose your poor knowledge of the character of GOD this way.

"GOD is not human, that He should lie, not a human being, that He should change His mind. Does He speak and then not act? Does He promise and not fulfill?" Num. 23:19

Amen. He has promised us Heaven. He will make it right.

How do reconcile the last part of the post with your God that can't lie

In answering, please remember that it's the same God that said the soul that sin shall die. This same God turned around to say he (God) shall avenge the sin of the father on the children till fourth generations.

Your God lied here. He said one thing on the subject of sin, right in the same old testament, God changed it.

The question is, why should you trust this erratic God?

Isn't it funny that when infidels want to criticize GOD, they either quote His words out of context, or they deliberately omit some words from the verse under consideration?

"Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;" Exod. 20:5

GOD does not punish innocent people because of what their parents may have done. Note the phrase "of them that hate me." It is almost always the case that children will toe the paths of their parents. And so, a sinful man may bring up His children in sinful ways. The man reaps the reward of His sins, the same reward goes down naturally to his children who continue in unrepentant rebellion to GOD.

No man suffers the penalty of another. The soul that sins shall die(Ezek. 18:20).

Read bible u will not read.


Esau did nt do according to the law.

Hebrews 12;16 Lest there be any fornicator, or profane person, as Esau, who for one morsel of meat sold his birthright.


Dat was his sin.

akintom:
Before Esau and Jacob were born, God HATED Isau and LOVED Jacob.

Esau had not committed any SIN against God to warrant his HATRED, and neither had Jacob done any RIGHTEOUSNESS to warrant his LOVE.

In answering this question, Paul the Apostle says God behaves as he (God) wishes, and God can't be questioned on what he does.

Now, what if when you die as a born again Christian, and you get to heaven's gate, and God says to you that he has changed his mind, that you're going to hell, HOW WOULD YOU FEEL ABOUT GOD THEN?

In answering, please remember that it's the same God that said the soul that sin shall die. This same God turned around to say he (God) shall avenge the sin of the father on the children till fourth generations.

Malachi 1:2-3 declares, “’I have loved you,’” says the LORD. But you ask, 'How have you loved us?' ‘Was not Esau Jacob's brother?’ the LORD says. ‘Yet I have loved Jacob, but Esau I have hated, and I have turned his mountains into a wasteland and left his inheritance to the desert jackals.’” Malachi 1:3 is quoted in Romans 9:10-13, “Not only that, but Rebekah's children had one and the same father, our father Isaac. Yet, before the twins were born or had done anything good or bad—in order that God's purpose in election might stand: not by works but by him who calls—she was told, ‘The older will serve the younger.’ Just as it is written: ‘Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.’” Why did God love Jacob and hate Esau? If God is love (1 John 4:, how could He hate anyone?

When studying the Bible, it is critically important to always study the context of a particular Bible verse or passage. In these instances, the prophet Malachi and the apostle Paul are using the name “Esau” to refer to the Edomites, who were the descendants of Esau. Isaac and Rebekah had two sons, Esau and Jacob.

God chose Jacob (whom He later renamed “Israel”) to be the father of His chosen people, the Israelites. God rejected Esau (who was also called “Edom”) and did not choose him to be the father of His chosen people. Esau and his descendants, the Edomites, were in many ways blessed by God (Genesis 33:9; Genesis chapter 36).

So, considering the context, God loving Jacob and hating Esau has nothing to do with the human emotions of love and hate. It has everything to do with God choosing one man and his descendants and rejecting another man and his descendants.

God chose Abraham out of all the men in the world. The Bible very well could say, “Abraham I loved, and every other man I hated.”

God chose Abraham’s son Isaac instead of Abraham’s son Ishmael. The Bible very well could say, “Isaac I loved, and Ishmael I hated.” Romans chapter 9 makes it abundantly clear that loving Jacob and hating Esau was entirely related to which of them God chose.

Hundreds of years after Jacob and Esau had died, the Israelites and Edomites became bitter enemies. The Edomites often aided Israel’s enemies in attacks on Israel. Esau’s descendants brought God’s curse upon themselves. Genesis 27:29 tells Israel, “May nations serve you and peoples bow down to you. Be lord over your brothers, and may the sons of your mother bow down to you. May those who curse you be cursed and those who bless you be blessed.”

@adjovio
You see how ignorant you are of the story book you called bible yourself?
Your god hated esau while he was still in the womb. Except your God said esau had sex when he was still a fetus.

akintom:
Your God lied here. He said one thing on the subject of sin, right in the same old testament, God changed it.

The question is, why should you trust this erratic God?

I understand that you're coming off as an atheist, but the passage you held on to, which also serves as your main argument on the thread is obviously not clear to you. Take your time to read and understand what I posted above.

@alien
If you read that your book in context as well, you will read in several places where your God enforced the fourth generations sin avengeance, God ordered genocide of those nations.

Now explain why your God ordered the killing of everything that bear life when God knew there are fetuses and little children who are yet to no the difference between hating or loving God?

You now see how useless your argument of it's only the generation that hate him is?

akintom:
@alien
If you read that your book in context as well, you will read in several places where your God enforced the fourth generations sin avengeance, God ordered genocide of those nations.

Now explain why your God ordered the killing of everything that bear life when God knew there are fetuses and little children who are yet to no the difference between hating or loving God?

You now see how useless your argument of it's only the generation that hate him is?

It'd do us good if you give examples. Please do.

akintom:
@adjovio
You see how ignorant you are of the story book you called bible yourself?
Your god hated esau while he was still in the womb. Except your God said esau had sex when he was still a fetus.

Can u kindly state the reason why God hated him from the womb as stated in the bible?

Evidences of your God's genocidal acts

Deuteronomy 2:34 And we took all his cities at that time, and utterly destroyed the men, and the women, and the little ones, of every city, we left none to remain:

Deuteronomy 3:6 And we utterly destroyed them, as we did unto Sihon king of Heshbon, utterly destroying the men, women, and children, of every city.

Gen 6:7 your god destroyed every living souls including children.

Gen 19:29 your god destroyed ordered genocide in cities of plain children included

Exodus 12:23 your god kill all first born in Egypt including babies

Num 21:23 your god ordered genocide of canaanites

Do you still trust this your atrocious God?

Ignorance and Atheists be like

akintom:
@adjovio
You see how ignorant you are of the story book you called bible yourself?
Your god hated esau while he was still in the womb. Except your God said esau had sex when he was still a fetus.

then go and ask GOD by ur self. We are nt GOD

@adjovio

You see, non of you Christian/religious folks can reasonably defend the deluded and atrocious actions of your God/gods.
What you folks either don't know or choose not to want to know is that god and god ideology is simply a creation of human primitive imagination.

That's the reason why your God has all the personal characteristics of men. Men are characterized by both good and bad (evil) traits at different degrees.

The sum total of the good of men is represented in your created God and bad (evil) as well.

Religious beliefs is a chronic mental suppressive virus, it's only rationality that can cure it.

akintom:
@adjovio

You see, non of you Christian/religious folks can reasonably defend the deluded and atrocious actions of your God/gods.
What you folks either don't know or choose not to want to know is that god and god ideology is simply a creation of human primitive imagination.

That's the reason why your God has all the personal characteristics of men. Men are characterized by both good and bad (evil) traits at different degrees.

The sum total of the good of men is represented in your created God and bad (evil) as well.

Religious beliefs is a chronic mental suppressive virus, it's only rationality that can cure it.

And evolution is the creation of who? Man shey

Both God and evolution ideas are human creations.

akintom:
Both God and evolution ideas are human creations.

Good if u say its like dat. So let us wait till after we are dead to know who is right or wrong. Case closed

adjoviomole:




Good if u say its like dat. So let us wait till after we are dead to know who is right or wrong. Case closed

The essence of this debate for me is that, the religious folks need to become conscious of the fact that they are not sure of anything. Why waste resources on uncertainty and assumptions.

akintom:



The essence of this debate for me is that, the religious folks need to become conscious of the fact that they are not sure of anything. Why waste resources on uncertainty and assumptions.

Dey waste resources because it is better to liv dat way n die to find out evolution was right, than to liv carelessly and die to find out that the bible was right. So its a win win situation for dem.

Op, thanks for this thread.

Seems both of us are on the same line of thought. This was what I was trying to explain.
God doesn't care an inch about what happens here. This world is his hobby; his big entertaiment to fill the void of his acute boredom. We are puppets before him and he plays with us when loneliness sets in.

How do I trust a God who slaughters innocent peeps to satiate his lustful, sadistic desire? How do I trust someone who assigns laws to me to adhere to in order to achieve a goal, but this same person isn't subject to those laws? Really?? How can I take such a risk? This is some fücked up twisted shît.

This God must really enjoy playing mind games for past-time and he's a dictatorial control freak.

adjoviomole:




Dey waste resources because it is better to liv dat way n die to find out evolution was right, than to liv carelessly and die to find out that the bible was right. So its a win win situation for dem.

Whatever you meant by carelessly, it's certainly what your Bible told you.
But on your win win theory, the mental delusion that religion subjects adherents to, waste of time in church attendance, money thrown at pastors to luxuriate in obscene wealth, frustration with prayers never answered, etc these are your losses when you die, and discover that it's maggots that takes over from there.

akintom:
Before Esau and Jacob were born, God HATED Isau and LOVED Jacob.

Esau had not committed any SIN against God to warrant his HATRED, and neither had Jacob done any RIGHTEOUSNESS to warrant his LOVE.

In answering this question, Paul the Apostle says God behaves as he (God) wishes, and God can't be questioned on what he does.

Now, what if when you die as a born again Christian, and you get to heaven's gate, and God says to you that he has changed his mind, that you're going to hell, HOW WOULD YOU FEEL ABOUT GOD THEN?

In answering, please remember that it's the same God that said the soul that sin shall die. This same God turned around to say he (God) shall avenge the sin of the father on the children till fourth generations.

The word is used in NATIONAL term and not personal term:

Genesis 25:22-23, "...And she went to enquire of the LORD. And the LORD said unto her, Two NATION are in thy womb, and TWO MANNER OF PEOPLE shall be separated from thy bowels; and the one people shall be stronger than the other people; and the elder shall serve the younger."

Moreover, the text say the elder shall serve the Younger. Jacob never did exercise any
power over Esau, nor was Esau ever subject to him. Jacob, on the contrary, was rather subject to Esau, and was sorely afraid of him; and, first, by his messengers, and afterwards personally, acknowledged his brother to be his lord, and himself to be his servant (see Genesis 32:4; 33:8, 13). Esau was a reprobate nation hence the hate.

akintom:


Whatever you meant by carelessly, it's certainly what your Bible told you.
But on your win win theory, the mental delusion that religion subjects adherents to, waste of time in church attendance, money thrown at pastors to luxuriate in obscene wealth, frustration with prayers never answered, etc these are your losses when you die, and discover that it's maggots that takes over from there.

And what do u stand to gain, when you gain the whole world? Ur still not gonna liv this earth without a dime. . What I benefit frm church- I hear heart feeling music,and orchestration all for free. My church don't carry plates about for donations, or offerings or tithes. It is all a freewill thingy.

Weda u go to church or not, weda u give to pastors or not, weda u care or not, weda ur rich or poor. We all are heading towards one direction, and that is death. Naked we came n naked we shall return. So like I said for us it is a win win situation.

Even my dog(the one that suffered brain damage), understands the bible more than most of the christians on this thread!!!

@doctor alien, so you claim that your god does not change his mind? And yet, when he was offered "penis remnants" from Zipporah, you are sure he did not change his mind? Why is your god so fascinated by dicks and blood?